Re: Noob question - best way to install software
Am 2007-04-15 06:57:16, schrieb Freddy Freeloader: Michael Pobega wrote: I have one recurring problem with aptitude. It keeps trying to remove gnome and everything related to it and a bunch of other stuff. ^^ Fortunately it takes up enough real estate on the screen that it is hard to miss and I just reply N and use apt for that task. run aptitude keep-all That will keep aptitude from trying to get rid of it sees as your unused packages, plus all their dependencies. ^^ ROTFL! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:00:02 -0400 Kamaraju S Kusumanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: Curious: what does apt-get do that aptitude non-interactive do; how does the user's experience of each differ? I thought that aptitude for simple stuff a drop-in replacement for apt-get. sudo apt-get build-dep texmacs sudo apt-get source texmacs Replace texmacs with your favorite package name. More info on what the commands do can be read from the man page of apt-get. AFAIK, there are no aptitude equivalents for the above commands. hth raju But we did find this for 'build-dep': http://p12n.org/hacks/aptitude-build-dep Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 07:13:07AM -0500, Dennis G. Wicks wrote: Michael Pobega wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 05:50:26PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 02:36:40PM -0700, Adam Frank wrote: For beginners I'd definitely recommend apt-get, or even one of its GUI fronteds like Synaptic. The only problem for a beginner using Synaptic is that if it is all she knows, and X crashes, they have no experience to fall back on. I completely agree. Everyone should have some command line experience in case anything ever breaks X.org, it could save lots of data and time. I recommend aptitude for the new user, apt-get doesn't track dependencies as well as aptitude does, and you don't have to remember seperate commands (apt-* as opposed to aptitude) I have one recurring problem with aptitude. It keeps trying to remove gnome and everything related to it and a bunch of other stuff. Fortunately it takes up enough real estate on the screen that it is hard to miss and I just reply N and use apt for that task. Just so you know you responded to me personally, and not to the mailing list. I'll CC it, hopefully it works (I'm not sure if it will break the thread) - -- o) Debian GNU/Linux - Free as in Freedom /\\ http://digital-haze.net/~pobega/ - My Debian site and blog _\_V Window Maker user, Debian enthusiast, Mutt lover -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGIhyn/o7Q/FCvPe0RAhsjAJ9P5Loc9bCO0ssMFQ3NNFesRDTdrgCeJnsG GvXaeSiBpGk9KMAmMJzzJLU= =Fup+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070414 16:28]: I've been using Debian for about a month, and just upgraded to Etch. ... I am wondering about the best way to install software. I have used the apt-get method, which is pretty simple, and have also downloaded and compiled from source tarballs which is a little more complicated but doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there significant advantages and disadvantages to these methods, besides just convenience? I worry about dependencies, and maybe messing stuff up with apt-get update. The Debian package manager was created because there is need for a package manager. You would be a fool not to use it. However, there occasionally is need for an application which has not been packaged for Debian, and Debian has provision for installing such packages. Unless you are a guru or a masochist, immediately after using tasksel to install a desktop, you should install synaptic, if it has not already been installed by tasksel. Then use synaptic exclusively for installing Debian packages from Debian repositories. Synaptic also was created in response to a need. It is stable and reliable. I have been using it exclusively for at least a year, during which I have not been plagued with problems of the sort reported almost daily by those who directly execute the lower-level package tools apt-get and aptitude. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
Michael Pobega wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 07:13:07AM -0500, Dennis G. Wicks wrote: Michael Pobega wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 05:50:26PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 02:36:40PM -0700, Adam Frank wrote: For beginners I'd definitely recommend apt-get, or even one of its GUI fronteds like Synaptic. The only problem for a beginner using Synaptic is that if it is all she knows, and X crashes, they have no experience to fall back on. I completely agree. Everyone should have some command line experience in case anything ever breaks X.org, it could save lots of data and time. I recommend aptitude for the new user, apt-get doesn't track dependencies as well as aptitude does, and you don't have to remember seperate commands (apt-* as opposed to aptitude) I have one recurring problem with aptitude. It keeps trying to remove gnome and everything related to it and a bunch of other stuff. Fortunately it takes up enough real estate on the screen that it is hard to miss and I just reply N and use apt for that task. run aptitude keep-all That will keep aptitude from trying to get rid of it sees as your unused packages, plus all their dependencies. Just so you know you responded to me personally, and not to the mailing list. I'll CC it, hopefully it works (I'm not sure if it will break the thread) - -- o) Debian GNU/Linux - Free as in Freedom /\\ http://digital-haze.net/~pobega/ - My Debian site and blog _\_V Window Maker user, Debian enthusiast, Mutt lover -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGIhyn/o7Q/FCvPe0RAhsjAJ9P5Loc9bCO0ssMFQ3NNFesRDTdrgCeJnsG GvXaeSiBpGk9KMAmMJzzJLU= =Fup+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:50:59 -0500 Russell L. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070414 16:28]: I've been using Debian for about a month, and just upgraded to Etch. ... I am wondering about the best way to install software. I have used the apt-get method, which is pretty simple, and have also downloaded and compiled from source tarballs which is a little more complicated but doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there significant advantages and disadvantages to these methods, besides just convenience? I worry about dependencies, and maybe messing stuff up with apt-get update. The Debian package manager was created because there is need for a package manager. You would be a fool not to use it. However, there occasionally is need for an application which has not been packaged for Debian, and Debian has provision for installing such packages. Unless you are a guru or a masochist, immediately after using tasksel to install a desktop, you should install synaptic, if it has not already been installed by tasksel. Then use synaptic exclusively for installing Debian packages from Debian repositories. Synaptic also was created in response to a need. It is stable and reliable. I have been using it exclusively for at least a year, during which I have not been plagued with problems of the sort reported almost daily by those who directly execute the lower-level package tools apt-get and aptitude. apt-get and aptitude aren't lower level than Synaptic; they are just cli or GUI (dpkg and perhaps dselect are indeed lower level). Aptitude in particular is generally much more powerful than Synaptic. Most problems encountered with apt-get / aptitude are either network problems, update synch lag, gpg key problems, or other problems with the basic dependency system. I don't believe that using Synaptic eliminates most of them. If you've had a good experience, I'd say you've just been luckier or more skilled. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 06:57:16AM -0700, Freddy Freeloader wrote: I have one recurring problem with aptitude. It keeps trying to remove gnome and everything related to it and a bunch of other stuff. Fortunately it takes up enough real estate on the screen that it is hard to miss and I just reply N and use apt for that task. run aptitude keep-all That will keep aptitude from trying to get rid of it sees as your unused packages, plus all their dependencies. But then don't you have to go through aptitude interactively anyway and reset manual/auto? Instead of a blanket keep-all, use it interactivly and sort the problem out directly. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 06:00:02PM -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: [...] sudo apt-get build-dep texmacs sudo apt-get source texmacs [...] Are those things a newbie cares about? I've never used them in the 8 years I've been using debian. Probably not! But if you want to compile debian packages from source then I think you need those commands. Not necessarily. There is 'apt-src', which I personally prefer for building debian packages from source (which I currently only do for two packages). Regards, Frank -- In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- RFC 1925 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On 14 Apr 2007, Michael Pobega wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 05:50:26PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 02:36:40PM -0700, Adam Frank wrote: For beginners I'd definitely recommend apt-get, or even one of its GUI fronteds like Synaptic. The only problem for a beginner using Synaptic is that if it is all she knows, and X crashes, they have no experience to fall back on. I completely agree. Everyone should have some command line experience in case anything ever breaks X.org, it could save lots of data and time. I recommend aptitude for the new user, apt-get doesn't track dependencies as well as aptitude does, and you don't have to remember seperate commands (apt-* as opposed to aptitude) I'd vote for wajig myself. The first thing I do with a new installation is to install and run wajig. -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, on-line books and sceptical articles) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:57:19 -0400 Kamaraju S Kusumanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Celejar wrote: But we did find this for 'build-dep': http://p12n.org/hacks/aptitude-build-dep When people say aptitude, they usually refer to the one supplied by Debian. The above is not included in debian's aptitude as far as I know. raju You're right, of course. I'm just pointing out that there's apparently a hack available for aptitude. Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
For beginners I'd definitely recommend apt-get, or even one of its GUI fronteds like Synaptic. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 09:22:56PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using Debian for about a month, and just upgraded to Etch. I'm very happy with it so far - my compliments to the people who create this great piece of work. I am wondering about the best way to install software. I have used the apt-get method, which is pretty simple, and have also downloaded and compiled from source tarballs which is a little more complicated but doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there significant advantages and disadvantages to these methods, besides just convenience? I worry about dependencies, and maybe messing stuff up with apt-get update. Welcome George. There's a bit of a religious nature over the choice between apt-get and aptitude. Aptitude is supposed to do everything that apt-get will do but in addition, it keeps track of packages that have only been installed to meet dependencies of packages that you specifically wanted installed. Later, if you remove a package, aptitude will also remove anything that was automatically installed that is no longer required by anything. Anything you install from source should go in either /usr/local or /opt so that it doesn't interfere with the debian packaging system. Since the release notes say that aptitude is the preferred method of managing packages, that is what I would suggest too. The first time you start aptitude interactivly, go down the list of packages that are installed. Anything that you don't specifically want installed (e.g. most of the libs), mark as auto so that aptitude will handle them. After you have done this one, you won't have to repeat this ever again unless you reinstall (which you should never _have_ to do). As far as tarballs of apps that don't have a deb: why not package up a deb and install that with aptitude as well? I haven't done this but lots of people on this list have and can help. Since you're new to debian, I suggest you read (available as packages): debian-reference debian-policy (slected sections) and FHS securing debian (harden-doc) aptitude user's guide Also, make sure that you can use one of the editors in /bin or /sbin, for your friend Justin Case. If you like vi, there's vim-tiny, otherwise, use nano-tiny. Enjoy. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 09:22:56PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using Debian for about a month, and just upgraded to Etch. I'm very happy with it so far - my compliments to the people who create this great piece of work. I am wondering about the best way to install software. I have used the apt-get method, which is pretty simple, and have also downloaded and compiled from source tarballs which is a little more complicated but doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there significant advantages and disadvantages to these methods, besides just convenience? I worry about dependencies, and maybe messing stuff up with apt-get update. Thanks for your advice. George The reason people use software packages is for the easy management. With apt-get you can upgrade things and have it take care of getting all the needed dependencies and alert you of any problems. With software compiled from source, its all up to you to keep things working. If you have a choice between deb, rpm, tgz or source, then i'd use them in this order: deb rpm tgz source There are tools like alien to convert rpm or tgz to deb. And there is checkinstall to help with source. If you are more advanced, you can use the debian 'equiv' package to tell dpkg about dependencies or even create your own debian packages. The point is, folks like to make things easier, not harder. If you want to use a package that you can find in deb format. Ask here, we may know a better option than source or may know of a deb that you may not know about. -K -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! | |___ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___| signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 02:36:40PM -0700, Adam Frank wrote: For beginners I'd definitely recommend apt-get, or even one of its GUI fronteds like Synaptic. The only problem for a beginner using Synaptic is that if it is all she knows, and X crashes, they have no experience to fall back on. Its just my personal axe: beginners should be comfortable with text-mode basic tools: aptitude or apt-get, lynx (or elinks2), mutt, and a text-mode editor (used by mutt if nothing else). This way, he has the tools he needs to get help from the list. Curious: what does apt-get do that aptitude non-interactive do; how does the user's experience of each differ? I thought that aptitude for simple stuff a drop-in replacement for apt-get. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am wondering about the best way to install software. I have used the apt-get method, which is pretty simple, and have also downloaded and compiled from source tarballs which is a little more complicated but doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there significant advantages and disadvantages to these methods, besides just convenience? With self-compiled software, you have to take care of everything yourself: dependencies, updates (including security relevant updates!) and deinstallation. This is not bad per se, but can be a lot of work and a little bit frustrating. Additionally, there may be some work to do to get individual software packages work together seamlessly. On the other hand, by doing it all yourself you may learn a lot of stuff you would never even encounter if you only installed precompiled Debian packages. And you have more freedom about the options you'd like to compile into your software. I worry about dependencies, and maybe messing stuff up with apt-get update. If you remember to put self-compiled packages into directories like /usr/local, apt will never interfere with these programs. But apt will never know about them either, so if you have a self-compiled program which is needed by a Debian package you are about to install, apt will install the necessary Debian package as a dependency. That means that you may end up with the same program or library twice on your system. This doesn't necessarily lead to problems, but you'll generally want to avoid that. To keep your system stable and tidy, you should generally prefer to install the Debian package of a specific program. This way you can easily keep your whole system up to date and you can remove programs without a trace, if you wish so. Messing your system up with apt-get (or aptitude, which is the recommended package manager nowadays) is a lot harder than by installing software yourself. If you'd like to do more tasks by hand, you may want to take a look at other distributions. Gentoo, for example, offers mainly source packages which you have to compile yourself. J. -- When I am at nightclubs I enjoy looking at other people and assessing their imagined problems. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using Debian for about a month, and just upgraded to Etch. I'm very happy with it so far - my compliments to the people who create this great piece of work. I am wondering about the best way to install software. I have used the apt-get method, which is pretty simple, and have also downloaded and compiled from source tarballs which is a little more complicated but doesn't seem to be a big deal. Are there significant advantages and disadvantages to these methods, besides just convenience? I worry about dependencies, and maybe messing stuff up with apt-get update. The apt-get method enables you to upgrade the packages without any effort. The source tarballs is method is good only for the current version. It does not (usually) bother about upgrading packages. The same is true for removing packages. As a newbie, you should consider reading the documentation manuals (especially the ones under user's manuals) available at http://www.debian.org/doc/ . Those documents will answer most of the questions you would be getting in the next couple of weeks. raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: Curious: what does apt-get do that aptitude non-interactive do; how does the user's experience of each differ? I thought that aptitude for simple stuff a drop-in replacement for apt-get. sudo apt-get build-dep texmacs sudo apt-get source texmacs Replace texmacs with your favorite package name. More info on what the commands do can be read from the man page of apt-get. AFAIK, there are no aptitude equivalents for the above commands. hth raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 06:00:02PM -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: Curious: what does apt-get do that aptitude non-interactive do; how does the user's experience of each differ? I thought that aptitude for simple stuff a drop-in replacement for apt-get. sudo apt-get build-dep texmacs sudo apt-get source texmacs Replace texmacs with your favorite package name. More info on what the commands do can be read from the man page of apt-get. AFAIK, there are no aptitude equivalents for the above commands. Are those things a newbie cares about? I've never used them in the 8 years I've been using debian. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 06:00:02PM -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: Curious: what does apt-get do that aptitude non-interactive do; how does the user's experience of each differ? I thought that aptitude for simple stuff a drop-in replacement for apt-get. sudo apt-get build-dep texmacs sudo apt-get source texmacs Replace texmacs with your favorite package name. More info on what the commands do can be read from the man page of apt-get. AFAIK, there are no aptitude equivalents for the above commands. Are those things a newbie cares about? I've never used them in the 8 years I've been using debian. Probably not! But if you want to compile debian packages from source then I think you need those commands. raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Noob question - best way to install software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 05:50:26PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 02:36:40PM -0700, Adam Frank wrote: For beginners I'd definitely recommend apt-get, or even one of its GUI fronteds like Synaptic. The only problem for a beginner using Synaptic is that if it is all she knows, and X crashes, they have no experience to fall back on. I completely agree. Everyone should have some command line experience in case anything ever breaks X.org, it could save lots of data and time. I recommend aptitude for the new user, apt-get doesn't track dependencies as well as aptitude does, and you don't have to remember seperate commands (apt-* as opposed to aptitude) - -- o) Debian GNU/Linux - Free as in Freedom /\\ http://digital-haze.net/~pobega/ - My Debian site and blog _\_V Window Maker user, Debian enthusiast, Mutt lover -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGIXBQ/o7Q/FCvPe0RAg0GAJoCY03vjfhWRCEyVUMH0MVueH5Z0QCaAkr4 0kkZ6jkalYWG2DgEH2EkuyE= =ySxl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
