Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[berenger . morel]

Le 26.11.2012 01:56, Zenaan Harkness a écrit :

On 11/26/12, Neal Murphy  wrote:

On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:

... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...


OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book 
ever
published? "One Thousand Years of German Humor", which consisted of 
the

frontispiece, the preface, and the introduction. :) :)


Outrageous! Simply outrageous!

Would a smiley just about now be politically correct, or incorrect?


Good question, because showing what sounds obvious for someone can make 
him feeling outraged!


PS: "One Thousand Years of German Humor" => nice joke


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 11/26/12, Neal Murphy  wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> ... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...
>
> OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book ever
> published? "One Thousand Years of German Humor", which consisted of the
> frontispiece, the preface, and the introduction. :) :)

Outrageous! Simply outrageous!

Would a smiley just about now be politically correct, or incorrect?


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Neal Murphy]

On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12:54:33 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> ... My humour is less good than Chaplin's ...

OK. Pointed, direct humor back at you. What was the shortest book ever 
published? "One Thousand Years of German Humor", which consisted of the 
frontispiece, the preface, and the introduction. :) :)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 21 nov 12, 14:40:58, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> 
> Obviously, Debian is working so well, for everybody, that we need
> something to keep the list from becoming dead air :-)

It happens during the freeze.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[berenger . morel]

Le 22.11.2012 22:07, Beco a écrit :
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, François TOURDE  
wrote:

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:


On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can 
see in

this first use in 1982:


That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude 
about just

over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.


Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a 
good

way to avoid the toxic "politically correct" way of life.

Please, Lisi, could you put me on your "kill-file", because there is
chances that I post jokes sometimes.

Thanks in advance.



François,

I was proud to be one of many who visited France and came back 
without

liking a single Frenchman.
Now you ruined it!

Regards,
Beco

PS. If your english is as bad as mine, maybe you don't understand 
what

I mean, or maybe I wrote something that mean other than what I want
you to understand. In any case, get over it. I'll not explain a 
comma.

(Alas, it took a Frenchman to ruin it!)


Hey, it is very outrageous for my compatriots, you know? I'm 
obfuscated... err... no, that's not the good word... damn!



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Beco]

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:28 PM, François TOURDE  wrote:
> Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
> Lisi Reisz écrivait:
>
>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
>>> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
>>> this first use in 1982:
>>
>> That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just
>> over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.
>
> Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a good
> way to avoid the toxic "politically correct" way of life.
>
> Please, Lisi, could you put me on your "kill-file", because there is
> chances that I post jokes sometimes.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

François,

I was proud to be one of many who visited France and came back without
liking a single Frenchman.
Now you ruined it!

Regards,
Beco

PS. If your english is as bad as mine, maybe you don't understand what
I mean, or maybe I wrote something that mean other than what I want
you to understand. In any case, get over it. I'll not explain a comma.
(Alas, it took a Frenchman to ruin it!)




-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

--> . <--

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everyone you love, everyone you know..." (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 21 novembre 2012 19:12, Brad Rogers a écrit :
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
>
>
> Hello Ralf,
>
>
>> I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
>>
>
> I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't.  At least one other
> person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker.  As

Usually, French people as I are known to be poor in other languages.
But using a smiley, followed by the mention of the "hopefully it is [...]"
is not really ambiguous.
There are words, but there is also the spirit behind them.

On the other hand, what I have seen in reaction what immediate "ban",
without letting any chance to explain.

So, on one side, there is someone which made an error on reaction of the
phrase "errare humanum est" (I think this situation is quite funny,
speaking about that).
On the other, we have someone which had banned him immediately (or
whatever the word on mailing lists).

I think both made an error. The first one made a joke which was not a good
idea somewhere where you does not know everyone else, and he apologized.
The other just banned him, without trying to understand.

[mylife]
My father have always said me something like "When you argue with someone,
if one got angry, it means he loosed, because he is unable to convince his
opponent that he is true."
I think he is wrong. When someone become angry, everyone loose, because
everyone failed to learn.
But I also think that the one which become angry is the one which loose
the more things:
_ he was not able to learn
_ he was not able to teach
_ he loosed 5 minutes of life ;)
[/mylife]

Seriously... I like doing jokes on girls. But I have nothing against jokes
on men. Both kinds of jokes makes fun of half the humanity. but humans are
able to laugh, and this is a very important thing. This is why those jokes
where made first.
Like jokes we french guys make on belgium peoples. They have also some on
us, french. And when we are together, we use them to make fun of others,
but also of us.
And there is no lack of respect there (I could say whatever I want on
them, the really make some very good beers, and I can only respect them
for that :P)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Titanus Eramius]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 00:11:08 +0100
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 23:28 +0100, François TOURDE wrote:
> > Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
> > Lisi Reisz écrivait:
> > 
> > > On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> > >> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can
> > >> see in this first use in 1982:
> > >
> > > That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude
> > > about just over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently
> > > do you.
> > 
> > Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a
> > good way to avoid the toxic "politically correct" way of life.
> > 
> > Please, Lisi, could you put me on your "kill-file", because there is
> > chances that I post jokes sometimes.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_in_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Point_of_View_Gun
> 
> 
> 

I too is from Europe as my mailaddress surely reveals, and I must say I
find this entire subject a bit off. Allow me to expand on that.

Being Germanys northen neighbour we tell jokes about the Nazis all the
time, but I know from experience that the Germans don't think they are
appropriate. Not telling the jokes around Germans is not some
political correct thing we do; it's out of respect for them.

The same goes for this subject in my opinion. Just because it's OK to
use a specific type of humor were one is from, does not mean it can or
should be used everywere, and it have nothing to do with political
correctness.

Even though I've been reading this list for almost a year now, I have
only posted two or three times due to the above, and how hard it can be
to write neutral in English. I think the best thing that can happen
from all of this is that we all learn a little, and it's not really a
solution to block out certain people or sign off (IMHO of course).

Besides, and not to be rude or harsh or anything, but isn't jokes
off-topic anyway?

From the cold North, Titanus


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 23:28 +0100, François TOURDE wrote:
> Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
> Lisi Reisz écrivait:
> 
> > On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> >> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> >> this first use in 1982:
> >
> > That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
> > over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.
> 
> Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a good
> way to avoid the toxic "politically correct" way of life.
> 
> Please, Lisi, could you put me on your "kill-file", because there is
> chances that I post jokes sometimes.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_in_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Point_of_View_Gun



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[François TOURDE]

Le 15665ième jour après Epoch,
Lisi Reisz écrivait:

> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
>> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
>> this first use in 1982:
>
> That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
> over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

Yes, me too. Because I'm a french native, I consider joking is a good
way to avoid the toxic "politically correct" way of life.

Please, Lisi, could you put me on your "kill-file", because there is
chances that I post jokes sometimes.

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Miles Fidelman]

Florian Snow wrote:


Ok, I understand that you were offended by Ralf's original "joke", but 
is it really necessary to make an already heated debate worse by 
making statements like yours? Ralf already explained that he actually 
meant to apologize and didn't ask for an apology and others already 
explained the same thing. So even with Ralf being in your killfile, 
you probably received a message about Ralf's true intent when he wrote 
"Apologize!".


Obviously, Debian is working so well, for everybody, that we need 
something to keep the list from becoming dead air :-)


Happy Thanksgiving Folks (to those in the US),

Miles Fidelman



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In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Florian Snow]

Lisi Reisz :

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 17:13:18 Brad Rogers wrote:

"Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.


He probably is!


Ok, I understand that you were offended by Ralf's original "joke", but 
is it really necessary to make an already heated debate worse by making 
statements like yours? Ralf already explained that he actually meant to 
apologize and didn't ask for an apology and others already explained the 
same thing. So even with Ralf being in your killfile, you probably 
received a message about Ralf's true intent when he wrote "Apologize!".


All the best,
Florian


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:00 -0300, Beco wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> >> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> >> this first use in 1982:
> >
> > That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just
> > over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.
> >
> > Lisi
> >
> 
> Lisi,
> 
> Yes, I think its funny. Not because "rudeness" is funny. But because
> "absurd" is funny. Because we all know today that women are such a
> strong creature, that can do whatever men can, and is so intelligent
> as men, and even better in a lot of areas when they expertise. This
> together causes a sensation of "absurd" that is really funny. It is an
> "absurd" that a computer is misconfigured because the OP is woman, and
> to point it is just a (bad) joke. I'm sure, god strike a lightning in
> my head, that Ralf does not "mean" being woman is the real cause of
> your problem, and so, the solution would be an operation to change
> sex.
> 
> 
> My best.
> Beco.

A man needs a computer or a women to make a big mistake, so this does
mean that men are weak. Ironically sexist is, that this might imply that
women are aware about this weakness and that they take advantage of this
weakness.

If this really should offend some women (or men) I apologize. I
apologized again and again and tried to explain.

This S/N ratio became hilarious and I won't apologize that this useless
discussion does continue. IMO now Lisi really should apologize too!

She isn't that important, as she often thinks that she is.

I'm a human, I sometimes misbehave and I apologize, this also happened
on this list, but in this case I guess I didn't misbehave. I simply
wasn't careful enough.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Beco]

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
>> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
>> this first use in 1982:
>
> That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just
> over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.
>
> Lisi
>

Lisi,

Yes, I think its funny. Not because "rudeness" is funny. But because
"absurd" is funny. Because we all know today that women are such a
strong creature, that can do whatever men can, and is so intelligent
as men, and even better in a lot of areas when they expertise. This
together causes a sensation of "absurd" that is really funny. It is an
"absurd" that a computer is misconfigured because the OP is woman, and
to point it is just a (bad) joke. I'm sure, god strike a lightning in
my head, that Ralf does not "mean" being woman is the real cause of
your problem, and so, the solution would be an operation to change
sex.


My best.
Beco.




-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

--> . <--

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it
everyone you love, everyone you know..." (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 18:12 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> 
> Hello Ralf,
> 
> >I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
> 
> I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't.  At least one other
> person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker.  As
> such, it's essential to think carefully before posting anything to the
> list.  Misunderstandings are all too easy to have in a written medium
> where visual and auditory clues as to intending to be humorous are
> absent.


Hi Brad :)

I guess I'll unsubscribe. IMO it became ridiculous. I wasn't
over-careful, IMO that's all.

I never was sexist before, but Lisi very often felt offended by other
users. I'm not the first one she kill-filed, I'm not the first one that
made her post a statement from her husband.

If it's her list, I'm willing to go.

I apologized often enough. What else should I do?

Regards,
Ralf



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:41:08 +0100
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

Hello Ralf,

>I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour

I picked up your intent, but clearly others didn't.  At least one other
person involved in this rigmarole is not a native English speaker.  As
such, it's essential to think carefully before posting anything to the
list.  Misunderstandings are all too easy to have in a written medium
where visual and auditory clues as to intending to be humorous are
absent.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
I hope I live to relive the days gone by
Old Before I Die - Robbie Williams


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 17:46 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> > Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> > this first use in 1982:
> 
> That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
> over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

Please blame me for my coarse humour, not other people. "The Great
Dictator" from Chaplin isn't meant to make jokes about oppressed humans,
neither is his
"Monsieur Verdoux" sexist. My humour is less good than Chaplin's and I
apologized for my words.

There's nothing more I can do.



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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 17:13:18 Brad Rogers wrote:
> >Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
>
> You should say either "I apologise" or "My apologies".
>
> "Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.

He probably is!

Lisi


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 21 November 2012 16:55:22 Beco wrote:
> Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
> this first use in 1982:

That is what is so very offensive.  He thinks that being so rude about just 
over half of the population is _funny_. As apparently do you.

Lisi


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 17:13 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> 
> Hello Ralf,
> 
> >Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
> 
> You should say either "I apologise" or "My apologies".
> 
> "Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.

I'm not sure, if it's really just the language barrier. Coarse humour
doesn't lead to that much noise, in an environment where everything is
ok. I'm sorry for those words, but I can't do anything, if in some areas
those words are "outrageous sexism" that does lead to stop any
communication immediately. If the communication stops, misunderstandings
can't be eliminated.


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:47:20 +0100
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

Hello Ralf,

>Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I

You should say either "I apologise" or "My apologies".

"Apologize!" means you're demanding an apology from someone else.

-- 
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/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Beco]

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Ralf Mardorf
 wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:34 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> > Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
>>
>> It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as
>> well?
>>
>> I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.  You are utterly,
>> utterly beyond the pale.
>
> Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
> already explained that I guess men and women are human and that's why
> mistakes happen.
>
>
>


>>> - Errare humanum est, but to make a big mistake, you need a
>>> computer ;)
>>
>>:D
>>
>>Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Ralf


Use of smiley face should point this was just a joke. As we can see in
this first use in 1982:

- original ---
19-Sep-82 11:44Scott E  Fahlman :-)
From: Scott E  Fahlman 

I propose that the following character sequence for joke markers:

:-)

Read it sideways.  Actually, it is probably more economical to mark
things that are NOT jokes, given current trends.  For this, use

:-(

--- end 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon


Please, don't take this too serious. And he also apologizes.


My best,
Beco





-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

--> . <--

"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it
everyone you love, everyone you know..." (Carl Sagan, 1934-1996)


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Jochen Spieker]

Lisi Reisz:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
> 
> It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as 
> well?

I think you got Ralf wrong. He did not want to express that women are
not human but "to make a big mistake, you need a computer or a woman".

Of course, this is still not very bright or sensitive.

> I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.

I did that a few months ago already.

J.
-- 
If politics is the blind leading the blind, entertainment is the fucked-
up leading the hypnotised.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Outrageous sexism. Was: Re: Mail client, threads, etc...

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:34 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 15:51:24 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > Or a woman. I hope this isn't too sexist.
> 
> It is, extremely.  My husband says do you not think a woman is humanum as 
> well?
> 
> I'm going to protect myself from you by kill-filing you.  You are utterly, 
> utterly beyond the pale.

Since I'm kill-filed you can't read it any more. Apologize! But I
already explained that I guess men and women are human and that's why
mistakes happen.



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