Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Hi, Amos == Amos Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amos I'm still looking for this kernel-image package. Can't find it Amos in the ls-lR files. It should appear in the mirrors soon, it was moved out of incoming recently. Amos Now what about support for multiple kernels? Is it possible to Amos have a rule to install the new kernel *near* (instead of over) Amos other kernels, or even near other compiles of same kernel? You Amos must know the urge to keep at least one prooven kernel around in Amos case the new one crashes. The recent kernel packages (headers, sources, and image), being build from the package kernel-package (or a close ancestor), do not overwrite older versions. They allow you to keep as many versions of images or sources on your system as you desire (you, then, have to explicitly delete them to have them go away). I always have tow versions myself ... Amos As it is now, it looks like ytou have to manually shift Amos /System.map and /vmlinuz and add entries to lilo.conf, or am I Amos missing something? Yes, the newer kernel-image-X.X.XX packages (which handle all these details for you). manoj -- Can you imagine what it would be like if there had been ``look and feel'' lawsuits over automobiles? -- Mark Diekhans ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) %% Manoj Srivastava Systems Research Programmer, Project Pilgrim, Phone: (413) 545-3918A143B Lederle Graduate Research Center, Fax: (413) 545-1249 University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.pilgrim.umass.edu/%7Esrivasta/
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Manoj Srivastava wrote: Hi, Brian == Brian C White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is indeed a Debian-ized version of the kernel. The package is called kernel-image. I'm still looking for this kernel-image package. Can't find it in the ls-lR files. You could also grab the raw source and use kernel-package package to generate your new image package. This is the recommended method for generating custom kernel images. This sounds much more like it. Now what about support for multiple kernels? Is it possible to have a rule to install the new kernel *near* (instead of over) other kernels, or even near other compiles of same kernel? You must know the urge to keep at least one prooven kernel around in case the new one crashes. As it is now, it looks like ytou have to manually shift /System.map and /vmlinuz and add entries to lilo.conf, or am I missing something? Cheers, -- --Amos Shapira | Of course Australia was marked for | glory, for its people had been chosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] | by the finest judges in England. | -- Anonymous
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
On Fri, 31 May 1996, Ian Jackson wrote: Manoj Srivastava writes [ SuperCite undone - iwj ]: Brian C White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So... Should there be a restriction against listing the kernel-image as a dependancy in another package? No, since if you follow the recommended method of generating kernel images, this will work. On the contrary, we should not require people to follow this method, especially when it's easy not to make this requirement. Packages which need a particular kernel or kernel feature to run correctly should test for the kernel version of feature in the postinst (or in the preinst, if the package being broken is a serious problem for the whole syste, for example for a base package). This fails to provide protection if the kernel is downgraded to a kernel that never provided the desired feature, or upgrading to a kernel that provides this feature in a different manner or with a different interface. I would suggest that it is always inappropriate for a package to depend on a particular kernel version. It is much better for the package in question to depend on a version of libc that provides the desired interface to the kernel. Then the kernel version can change without breaking the application program. It was my understanding that this is exactly why David E. began providing kernel headers with libc5. I say: Use depends, but make it depend on the appropriate version of libc and not on a particular kernel package. Thanks, Dwarf -- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (904) 877-0257 Flexible Software Fax: NONE Black Creek Critters e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you don't see what you want, just ask --
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Hi, Brian == Brian C White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is indeed a Debian-ized version of the kernel. The package is called kernel-image. You could also grab the raw source and use kernel-package package to generate your new image package. This is the recommended method for generating custom kernel images. Brian Could you point me to exactly where this is recommended? Umm, err, I don't think it is in any publically available document yet. It has been discussed on the developers list, though, and I'll see what can be done about putting this into the general documentation. Brian In any case, though, I have no desire to follow this path. I Brian like building my kernel directly from the main sources. I Brian don't want to have to wait for a package to get built or apply Brian patches to the debian sources. This is what kernel-packages are designed for. You get the main sources on your own (or patch 'em up, if you wish). You get the kernel-package package, which is kernel version independent, so you don't have to wait for it, or download a new one per kernel revision. You get it once. (barring upgrades for bug fixes, changing specs, etc, but I hope that there ain't gonna be none, at least for a resonable period). It is a small, 25K package. No kernel files are patched. No C code is provided. The kernel image is produced by a normal make boot/zimage. All the package does is provide you a debian.rules debian.README (explaining how to use debian.rules), and debian/* files, which arrange for you to register and manage the kernel images using dpkg, and to satisfy dependencies that other debian packages may have for the image. You still can customize your images at will (I do, believe me. I have not installed a standard image since 1.2.8, I think, and I like being bleeding edge [1.99.9 at the moment]). Brian But is there a self-compiled-kernel-image? At least the new Brian diald (in Incoming) depends on kernel-image. The self compiled kernel, if you do it using kernel-package package, will also Provide kernel-image. Brian See above. ditto. Brian If I recall, some other package used to depend on the image but Brian was changed to check the kernel version in the preinst script. This is true about kernel version. Brian So... Should there be a restriction against listing the Brian kernel-image as a dependancy in another package? No, since if you follow the recommended method of generating kernel images, this will work. Brian But neither I nor some others install the Debian kernels. We Brian like building our own. All you have to do is get a 22K package that adds a thin veneer of information that dpkg needs. The image is not changed, and you use your own custom config file, and decide whatever you want as modules. It just makes handling kernel images easier, since you now can use dpkg. The raison de 'etre of this package is that I was sick of the mechanical, routine things I had to do every other day compiling yet another kernel. manoj -- Everything is for sale; only the price is negotiable. %% Manoj Srivastava Systems Research Programmer, Project Pilgrim, Phone: (413) 545-3918A143B Lederle Graduate Research Center, Fax: (413) 545-1249 University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.pilgrim.umass.edu/%7Esrivasta/
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Hi, Ian == Ian Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ian On the contrary, we should not require people to follow this Ian method, especially when it's easy not to make this requirement. Ian Packages which need a particular kernel or kernel feature to run Ian correctly should test for the kernel version of feature in the Ian postinst (or in the preinst, if the package being broken is a Ian serious problem for the whole syste, for example for a base Ian package). Ian dpkg --compare-versions (implemented in dpkg recently) should Ian work on kernel version numbers, provided that pre-2 does actually Ian return 1.99 or whatever in uname. Ok. Since I'm temporarily managing diald, I'll remove the dependency in a release I'll make tonight (I hope), and add a check in the installation scripts if needed (I'm not sure it is needed). manoj -- I don't believe in sweeping social change being manifested by one person, unless he has an atomic weapon. -- Howard Chaykin %% Manoj Srivastava Systems Research Programmer, Project Pilgrim, Phone: (413) 545-3918A143B Lederle Graduate Research Center, Fax: (413) 545-1249 University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.pilgrim.umass.edu/%7Esrivasta/
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Manoj Srivastava writes [ SuperCite undone - iwj ]: Brian C White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So... Should there be a restriction against listing the kernel-image as a dependancy in another package? No, since if you follow the recommended method of generating kernel images, this will work. On the contrary, we should not require people to follow this method, especially when it's easy not to make this requirement. Packages which need a particular kernel or kernel feature to run correctly should test for the kernel version of feature in the postinst (or in the preinst, if the package being broken is a serious problem for the whole syste, for example for a base package). dpkg --compare-versions (implemented in dpkg recently) should work on kernel version numbers, provided that pre-2 does actually return 1.99 or whatever in uname. Ian.
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Is there a Debian-ized package of this kernel or are Debian testers expected to grab the raw source? There is indeed a Debian-ized version of the kernel. The package is called kernel-image. But is there a self-compiled-kernel-image? At least the new diald (in Incoming) depends on kernel-image. If I recall, some other package used to depend on the image but was changed to check the kernel version in the preinst script. So... Should there be a restriction against listing the kernel-image as a dependancy in another package? Brian ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) --- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Brian == Brian C White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brian But is there a self-compiled-kernel-image? At least the new Brian diald (in Incoming) depends on kernel-image. Brian So... Should there be a restriction against listing the Brian kernel-image as a dependancy in another package? I don't think packages should `depend' on kernel-image. I don't have kernel-image installed although it is listed as `essential'. I boot into Debian using loadlin and sometimes floppies. -- Billy C.-M. Chow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian Linux
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Hi, Brian == Brian C White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a Debian-ized package of this kernel or are Debian testers expected to grab the raw source? There is indeed a Debian-ized version of the kernel. The package is called kernel-image. You could also grab the raw source and use kernel-package package to generate your new image package. This is the recommended method for generating custom kernel images. Brian But is there a self-compiled-kernel-image? At least the new Brian diald (in Incoming) depends on kernel-image. The self compiled kernel, if you do it using kernel-package package, will also Provide kernel-image. Brian If I recall, some other package used to depend on the image but Brian was changed to check the kernel version in the preinst script. This is true about kernel version. Brian So... Should there be a restriction against listing the Brian kernel-image as a dependancy in another package? No, since if you follow the recommended method of generating kernel images, this will work. manoj -- Comparing information and knowledge is like asking whether the fatness of a pig is more or less green than the designated hitter rule. -- David Guaspari Manoj Srivastava Systems Research Programmer, Project Pilgrim, Phone: (413) 545-3918A143B Lederle Graduate Research Center, Fax: (413) 545-1249 University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.pilgrim.umass.edu/%7Esrivasta/
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
On Tue, 28 May 1996, Nils Rennebarth wrote: Never compile PPP into the kernel. Always compile it as a module and load it via /etc/modules. This is because slhc.c says it needs to be compiled as a module and ppp relies on it. I have ppp compiled into my kernel (not as a module) and it's working fine for me. I believe you have to answer 'No' to 'Set version information on all symbols for modules' in order for ppp to work correctly this way though. Gerry
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Bruce Perens wrote: Linus released pre2.0.7 and then went to the Linux Kongress in Germany for a week. Please test this on pre2.0.7 if you can, and report it if it is still broken. He urged us to put a lot of testing into pre2.0.7 . Is there a Debian-ized package of this kernel or are Debian testers expected to grab the raw source? (BTW, thanks for the help with 1.3.100 - I recompiled 1.3.100 again, and this time I commented all the relevant entries in the modules file and things startted working). -- --Amos Shapira | Of course Australia was marked for | glory, for its people had been chosen [EMAIL PROTECTED] | by the finest judges in England. | -- Anonymous
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
On Wed, 29 May 1996, Amos Shapira wrote: Bruce Perens wrote: Linus released pre2.0.7 and then went to the Linux Kongress in Germany for a week. Please test this on pre2.0.7 if you can, and report it if it is still broken. He urged us to put a lot of testing into pre2.0.7 . Is there a Debian-ized package of this kernel or are Debian testers expected to grab the raw source? There is indeed a Debian-ized version of the kernel. The package is called kernel-image. Christian
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
For now, I run 'pppd' without the 'connect' option once after a reboot. It will fail, of course, but it puts the ttyS* device into the correct state, and 'pppd' works fine after that. I gave it a try, and yes, this works. Linus released pre2.0.7 and then went to the Linux Kongress in Germany for a week. Please test this on pre2.0.7 if you can, and report it if it is still broken. He urged us to put a lot of testing into pre2.0.7 . Thanks Bruce -- *** Re-elect Clinton *** Bruce Perens AB6YM [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.hams.com/
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Michael Callahan said: I just grabbed the latest disks from ftp.debian.org (in /pub/debian/unstable/disks-i386/current, the 1440 series), and proceded to do the installation. It mostly works, but I'm having trouble with PPP. I recompiled the kernel (using 1.3.100-1 now) with PPP support, but when I try to run pppd, it says the kernel does not support PPP. I believe it has something to do with the lack of ppp devices in the /dev directory. Has anyone else had trouble with this latest build? I had this same problem. I finally tracked it to a problem with the ttyS* drivers in the kernel. However, I don't know exactly where in the drivers the problem is. For now, I run 'pppd' without the 'connect' option once after a reboot. It will fail, of course, but it puts the ttyS* device into the correct state, an d 'pppd' works fine after that. I gave it a try, and yes, this works. It's somewhat of a nuisance though, hopefully someone can fix it soon. Thanks for the help. Michael
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
Michael Callahan said: I just grabbed the latest disks from ftp.debian.org (in /pub/debian/unstable/disks-i386/current, the 1440 series), and proceded to do the installation. It mostly works, but I'm having trouble with PPP. I recompiled the kernel (using 1.3.100-1 now) with PPP support, but when I try to run pppd, it says the kernel does not support PPP. I believe it has something to do with the lack of ppp devices in the /dev directory. Has anyone else had trouble with this latest build? I had this same problem. I finally tracked it to a problem with the ttyS* drivers in the kernel. However, I don't know exactly where in the drivers the problem is. For now, I run 'pppd' without the 'connect' option once after a reboot. It will fail, of course, but it puts the ttyS* device into the correct state, and 'pppd' works fine after that. -- Scott Barker Linux Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~barkers/ (under construction) [ I try to reply to all e-mail within 5 days. If you don't ] [ get a response by then, I probably didn't get your e-mail ] [ (we have a sometimes sporadic connection to the internet) ] As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs. - Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949
Re: PPP problem w/ 1.1 install
On Mon, 27 May 1996, Michael Callahan wrote: I just grabbed the latest disks from ftp.debian.org (in /pub/debian/unstable/disks-i386/current, the 1440 series), and proceded to do the installation. It mostly works, but I'm having trouble with PPP. I recompiled the kernel (using 1.3.100-1 now) with PPP support Never compile PPP into the kernel. Always compile it as a module and load it via /etc/modules. This is because slhc.c says it needs to be compiled as a module and ppp relies on it. but when I try to run pppd, it says the kernel does not support PPP. Make sure you run a recent version of pppd (2.2.*) I believe it has something to do with the lack of ppp devices in the /dev directory. You won't need them. pppd uses the standard serial devices. Nils -- Coming again: Best quotes of the net. Today: | Nils Rennebarth Kristian Köhntopp [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Schillerstr. 61 I'd also be interested in the comparison [of Linux] | 37083 Göttingen with a cisco router. I assume a factor of about ten.| ++49-551-71626 What? faster or slower? | http://www.nus. Cheaper! | pan-net.de/~nils
