[SOLVED] Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
Virgo Pärna wrote on 6/16/20 6:27 AM: > > Nothing to do with keyboard layouts. Some fonts have ligatures, > that combine two different characters into one symbol. I actually tried > it on Windows with Thunderbird and "Cascadia Mono" font. Rendering > engine in Thunderbird probably has ligature support enabled and then, if > used font has ligatures for specific symbol, then those are used. > I finally had some time to delve into this, and indeed that was the problem. The font mapped the pair "<<" to the left guillemot, the pair "--" to an en-dash (although the en-dash glyph was no different than the ordinary hyphen glyph, so it looked like it was dropping one of the pair), along with a handful of other ligatures. Using fontforge I edited the ligature table to remove the ones that were causing a problem. Restarted Thunderbird and presto! all fixed. So many (many!) thanks to Virgo for the suggestion to look at the font itself. I looked in the TB config editor, but couldn't see anything that would turn off the use of ligatures -- which is rather surprising, since it must have been enabled only in the fairly recent past, as I'm using exactly the same fonts I've been using for years without this problem appearing -- but maybe it's in the config editor with an unguessable name. It's also surprising that TB enables ligatures with a monospoaced font, because that's generally not a good idea; but I suppose that if the font itself says it's OK to use a ligature, I can only half-blame TB for using it :-) Anyway, I'm delighted that I can now write: cout << n-- << endl; without a noticeable increase in my blood pressure. Doc -- Web: http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
On 2020-06-11 at 03:27, Virgo Pärna wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 14:10:45 -0600, D. R. Evans wrote: > >> For example: >> if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one, >> even though both characters are present in the text >> if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two >> "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it >> displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters >> > > What happens, if you change the default composition font. Sounds > like those are rendered as ligatures. I'm using Windows, but when I set > monospace font to Cascadia code, I started getting similar issues. I don't recall having ever seen it in Thunderbird, but every so often (maybe once or twice a year max), I start to see Firefox render consecutive letter pairs that have matching ligatures as those ligatures. I'm not sure if it's "every possible ligature-matching pair", or only ligature pairs starting with "f", but I know the latter do seem to be included. Invariably, restarting the browser fixes it. I'm not sure what causes it, but I think it's got something to do with upgrading an underlying font package while Firefox is already running. Not sure if that helps here at all, but it does seem at least tangentially related. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
Virgo Pärna wrote on 6/16/20 6:34 AM: > On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:12:25 -0600, D. R. Evans wrote: >> >> I'll have to dig in and see if there's a way to turn it off. I'll look at the >> details of the font as well; I'm not at all sure what exactly is telling TB >> "if you see two consecutive "less-than" signs, then render them as a single >> "much less than" character. No other program seems to be doing it, so it >> seems >> to be a TB decision somewhere; but since it seems to be font-dependent, TB >> must (presumably) be looking at some characteristic of the font before >> deciding to make the substitution. Very strange. > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450151 maybe? > I don't think so. Changing the value of: browser.display.auto_quality_min_font_size makes no difference :-( Doc -- Web: http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:12:25 -0600, D. R. Evans wrote: > > I'll have to dig in and see if there's a way to turn it off. I'll look at the > details of the font as well; I'm not at all sure what exactly is telling TB > "if you see two consecutive "less-than" signs, then render them as a single > "much less than" character. No other program seems to be doing it, so it seems > to be a TB decision somewhere; but since it seems to be font-dependent, TB > must (presumably) be looking at some characteristic of the font before > deciding to make the substitution. Very strange. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450151 maybe? -- Virgo Pärna virgo.pa...@mail.ee
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 07:07:01 + (UTC), davidson wrote: > > Different requirements call for different keyboard layouts. It sounds > like in Thunderbird, for whatever reason, you have one enabled that > doesn't fit yours. > Nothing to do with keyboard layouts. Some fonts have ligatures, that combine two different characters into one symbol. I actually tried it on Windows with Thunderbird and "Cascadia Mono" font. Rendering engine in Thunderbird probably has ligature support enabled and then, if used font has ligatures for specific symbol, then those are used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthographic_ligature Now, some Office suites do have autoreplace rules to replace " with language specific quote symbol. But then that replacement does not depend of font. -- Virgo Pärna virgo.pa...@mail.ee
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020, D. R. Evans wrote: Virgo Pärna wrote on 6/11/20 1:27 AM: On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 14:10:45 -0600, D. R. Evans wrote: For example: if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one, even though both characters are present in the text Speculation in the dark: The displayed result might be a em-dash or en-dash, and not a hyphen. Alternative speculation: No, the displayed result really *is* a hyphen. Hitting the hyphen key twice in a row is in fact how one enters a hyphen under the keyboard layout presently in effect. if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters More speculation in the dark: the character you describe as "much less than" character is a left-guillemet. It is conventional in some languages to use guillemets the way English uses double quotation marks. It sounds to me like the effective keyboard layout is one that imposes dead-key behavior on certain keys in exchange for easier entry of certain characters that a standard US keyboard lacks dedicated keys for. What happens, if you change the default composition font. Sounds like those are rendered as ligatures. I'm using Windows, but when I set monospace font to Cascadia code, I started getting similar issues. Oh, that's very interesting. Yep, changing font "fixed" the problem. It's a puzzle why someone thought would think that this would be a good way for the rendering engine to work. I can think of a few of reasons for it NOT to behave this way, and none for why it's a good idea. Different requirements call for different keyboard layouts. It sounds like in Thunderbird, for whatever reason, you have one enabled that doesn't fit yours. I wish you luck in sorting it out. I'll have to dig in and see if there's a way to turn it off. I'll look at the details of the font as well; I'm not at all sure what exactly is telling TB "if you see two consecutive "less-than" signs, then render them as a single "much less than" character. No other program seems to be doing it, so it seems to be a TB decision somewhere; but since it seems to be font-dependent, TB must (presumably) be looking at some characteristic of the font before deciding to make the substitution. Very strange. Thanks for the suggestion that it might be dependent on the font. Doc -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12518471 alexk already addressed your concern: your keys, preferably issued by your org's CA (instead of being generated by you) should be short-lived, oftentimes for the duration of your "work shift". The tools listed above support this.
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
Virgo Pärna wrote on 6/11/20 1:27 AM: > On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 14:10:45 -0600, D. R. Evans wrote: >> For example: >> if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one, >> even though both characters are present in the text >> if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two >> "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it >> displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters >> > > What happens, if you change the default composition font. Sounds > like those are rendered as ligatures. I'm using Windows, but when I set > monospace font to Cascadia code, I started getting similar issues. Oh, that's very interesting. Yep, changing font "fixed" the problem. It's a puzzle why someone thought would think that this would be a good way for the rendering engine to work. I can think of a few of reasons for it NOT to behave this way, and none for why it's a good idea. I'll have to dig in and see if there's a way to turn it off. I'll look at the details of the font as well; I'm not at all sure what exactly is telling TB "if you see two consecutive "less-than" signs, then render them as a single "much less than" character. No other program seems to be doing it, so it seems to be a TB decision somewhere; but since it seems to be font-dependent, TB must (presumably) be looking at some characteristic of the font before deciding to make the substitution. Very strange. Thanks for the suggestion that it might be dependent on the font. Doc -- Web: http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 14:10:45 -0600, D. R. Evans wrote: > For example: > if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one, > even though both characters are present in the text > if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two > "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it > displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters > What happens, if you change the default composition font. Sounds like those are rendered as ligatures. I'm using Windows, but when I set monospace font to Cascadia code, I started getting similar issues. -- Virgo Pärna virgo.pa...@mail.ee
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
Hi, 11 juin 2020 à 02:56 de f...@blakemfg.com: > On 6/10/20 1:10 PM, D. R. Evans wrote: > >> As far as I can tell, no one else using other OSes seems to be having this >> problem, so maybe it's a Thunderbird-on-buster issue that needs to be >> reported >> somewhere. Or maybe it's just my system for some obscure reason >> Here Thunderbird 68.8.0 (64bits) on Xfce Buster (kernel 5.4.8-1~bpo10+1): no issue from my side. Best regards, l0f4r0
Re: Question for users of Thunderbird on buster
On 6/10/20 1:10 PM, D. R. Evans wrote: As far as I can tell, no one else using other OSes seems to be having this problem, so maybe it's a Thunderbird-on-buster issue that needs to be reported somewhere. Or maybe it's just my system for some obscure reason So, with current buster, the installed version of Thunderbird is 68.8.0. I have Thunderbird configured to generate ordinary plain-text e-mails (like this one). When composing an e-mail, something (and I assume it's Thunderbird because I can't guess what else might do this) is attempting to be "intelligent" and is interpreting sequences of characters instead of just leaving them alone when they are displayed. For example: if I type the "-" character twice in a row, Thunderbird displays only one, even though both characters are present in the text if I type the "<" character twice in a row, Thunderbird converts the two "less than" characters into a single "much less than" character when it displays them, even though the text actually contains the two "<" characters So on the next line I type the "-" character twice: -- and on the next line I type the "<" character twice: << in both cases they are being displayed incorrectly in the composition window here. Are other people seeing the same behaviour? Doc PS I have tried turning off all add-ons and restarting Thunderbird, but it made no difference. Hello, I am using the same version of Thunderbird on Jessie. The problems you mention don't happen here. However, the mouse scroll wheel doesn't work in the list of messages. It stopped working several versions ago. Best regards, Fred
