Re: [OT] [politics] Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Saturday 09 August 2014 21:42:32 Iain M Conochie wrote: I find it interesting that you feel more in control of a privately funded corporation than a legitimate arm of a sovereign government. It is obvious what the NSA want to do (snoop), I'm not so sure what google want to do. Almost 300 million US citizens have the ability to curtail the NSA's behaviour if enough of 'em want to make something of it; this is their constitutional right. And the rest of us are at their mercy. Speaking personally, I feel less threatened by Google, though the fact that it is an American corporation does give me pause. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201408101553.32736.lisi.re...@gmail.com
[OT] [politics] Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/14 00:21, Joel Rees wrote: Google has too much money and is out of control. The NSA has too much money and is out of our control. I find it interesting that you feel more in control of a privately funded corporation than a legitimate arm of a sovereign government. It is obvious what the NSA want to do (snoop), I'm not so sure what google want to do. Almost 300 million US citizens have the ability to curtail the NSA's behaviour if enough of 'em want to make something of it; this is their constitutional right. Don't believe the hype, corporations are in no way in our control. Iain -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e687b8.1030...@thargoid.co.uk
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Mark Carroll m...@ixod.org wrote: Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com writes: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: snip At least that you've noticed. (-: A persistently irritating problem with both Skype and Google Hangouts, at least for me, is that they have consistently worked far better and more reliably than any of the open-source alternatives! However, Skype don't even seem to bother offering amd64 packages so, as with acroread, I run it from a 32-bit chroot -- I thus guess that their interest in supporting Linux is minimal. (I am also irritated with how Google's package sneakily adds its own /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ file.) snip There's an interesting point - from what I understand, Skype (at least, Skype for Linux - I am not sure about Skype for Windows, and, I regard MS Windows to be too risky to connect to the Internet) is not available, now, in a 64 bit version - that it has to be installed as a 32 bit system, with 32 bit stuff needing to be installed to run it. I guess that it is a matter of Microsft needing to maintain its reputation, as a World Leader In Failing To Keep Up With Technology. From memory, when the 80486 CPU was released into production, we (it might have been at university, I think - it was so many years ago, now) were told that the available version of Microsoft Windows, that came with 486 computers, was unable to make proper use of the 486 technology - that to make full use of the 486 technology, UNIX was required. From memory, it was to do with multi-threading, where MS Windows 95 (I think that that was the version of MS Windows, that was supplied in the Wintel 486 systems) could only run a single task at a time, and, whilst UNIX had previously used pre-emptive multitasking; switching between tasks, to enable multitasking, with the capability of the 80486 CPU, multithreading was available, and, MS Windows simply did not provide for it, whereas, from memory, UNIX did. I remember seeing a video of a presentation, to do with the Mach kernel, which enalbled mutithreadiung, from memory, the Mach kernel coming from Cornell University, from memory, and, I think that this might have been when (I could have the timeline a bit wrong, but, it is as I remember it) Linux (before version 1) had just had a patch released, that allowed it to run on the 80386 CPU. As I said, the timeline, to do with the 0.9x version of Linux, could be wrong, but I distinctly remember being told, that Microsoft Windows, as available in the Wintel 486 systems, was unable to fully use the capacity of the 80486 CPU, and, was a little bit like running MS -DOS 6 (which may have been the version of DOS, that was ioncorporated in MS Windows 95), on an 80486 CPU. So, I believe that Skype for Linux, is not available as a 64 bit version, and, I believe that Skype For Linux, is not as easily installable as Skype 2.2.0.x (mine is 2.2.0.35), which I have as skype-debian_2.2.0.35-1_amd64.deb , which, from memory, simply needed to be downloaded and, then installed, using a package manager such as Synaptic, and, so, I believe that this is simply indicative of the premise that Microsoft is simply working to maintain its reuttation as a World Leader In Failing To Keep Up With Technology (I wonder whether an award exists, for that), as the version of Skype that I have, which worked, before being banned by Microsoft, due to it being something that worked, was from before Microsoft took over Skype, I believe. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8mqt_qmz27wcspxxkobkm3gkmcggdloc_t0sm6dtmq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
Hi Bret, On 3/08/2014 8:47 PM, Bret Busby wrote: Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here: http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/ That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two states of Australia. I apologise - after posting my response, I realise that the material on that web page, went beyond the first letter, which applies only to Victoria. Thus, that web page relates to two other states, I believ, in addition to Victoria. Even so, it might be something that could be challenged by other states if needed. However, please read the text below, and, please read the citation of what Michael Kirby said - he is much more an authority on the matter, at the Australian federal level. Thanks. I wonder about Kirby myself. To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding a matter of fact via *their* opinion. If the law says xa and the opinion says xb ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide xb instead of the letter of the law that is xa. I could never understand how the courts could get away with that. Judges should not be judge and jury as they often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law, not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems to be a great offender of my view of what is required here. Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false pretenses. Local councils corporations operate as local government bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ... legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them an inch, they'll take a 100 miles! It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia. We are over-governed already, I DO NOT EVER want local council corporations getting more power than they already have; heck I'm not even sure there is a place for local government meddling at all, let alone all their fees and /localized/ sub-laws (that should not be binding on the people). Already they have far too much power and they are just corporations that we are effectively *forced* to do business with whether we like it or not! And as for the recognition of Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person, no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by our constitution. Aboriginals are no different to other Australians, every person is covered. They want to screw the Constitution under the guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and we'll lose even more rights. Regarding the issue of the Aboriginals, and, any other race; I do not know whether you have read the Australian Constitution Act, but, apartheid (= apartness - racial segregation and racial discrimination) is constitutionally legal and enforceable, in Australia. Regardless of that fact, if it is true or not, it is not practiced in this day and age. It is completely unnecessary to risk changing the Constitution to fix this issue that is /fixed/ otherwise current practices and other laws relating to how all persons are treated in AU. We don't have slavery and separation in AU, and if there was a problem then it is often addressed via the guilt adverts. like those of Adam Goodes (an AFL footballer). We have full integration as a multi-cultural society and non-racist people are by far the majority in many areas of AU. There may well be more of an issue of reverse discrimination trying to right the wrongs of the past, that's another matter, not one that needs constitutional *destruction*. Leave the AU Constitution in tact, create new laws if necessary, but only if necessary to /fix/ issues and problems that really do need to be addressed, but definitely do not risk the integrity of the Constitution under any circumstances, it really is not worth the risk and changes may very well lead to it being effectively useless, ala not worth the paper it is printed on. Cheers A. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 04/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: Hi Bret, On 3/08/2014 8:47 PM, Bret Busby wrote: Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here: http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/ That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two states of Australia. I apologise - after posting my response, I realise that the material on that web page, went beyond the first letter, which applies only to Victoria. Thus, that web page relates to two other states, I believ, in addition to Victoria. Even so, it might be something that could be challenged by other states if needed. However, please read the text below, and, please read the citation of what Michael Kirby said - he is much more an authority on the matter, at the Australian federal level. Thanks. I wonder about Kirby myself. To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding a matter of fact via *their* opinion. If the law says xa and the opinion says xb ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide xb instead of the letter of the law that is xa. I could never understand how the courts could get away with that. Judges should not be judge and jury as they often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law, not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems to be a great offender of my view of what is required here. Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false pretenses. Local councils corporations operate as local government bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ... legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them an inch, they'll take a 100 miles! It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia. We are over-governed already, I DO NOT EVER want local council corporations getting more power than they already have; heck I'm not even sure there is a place for local government meddling at all, let alone all their fees and /localized/ sub-laws (that should not be binding on the people). Already they have far too much power and they are just corporations that we are effectively *forced* to do business with whether we like it or not! And as for the recognition of Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person, no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by our constitution. Aboriginals are no different to other Australians, every person is covered. They want to screw the Constitution under the guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and we'll lose even more rights. Regarding the issue of the Aboriginals, and, any other race; I do not know whether you have read the Australian Constitution Act, but, apartheid (= apartness - racial segregation and racial discrimination) is constitutionally legal and enforceable, in Australia. Regardless of that fact, if it is true or not, it is not practiced in this day and age. It is completely unnecessary to risk changing the Constitution to fix this issue that is /fixed/ otherwise current practices and other laws relating to how all persons are treated in AU. We don't have slavery and separation in AU, and if there was a problem then it is often addressed via the guilt adverts. like those of Adam Goodes (an AFL footballer). We have full integration as a multi-cultural society and non-racist people are by far the majority in many areas of AU. There may well be more of an issue of reverse discrimination trying to right the wrongs of the past, that's another matter, not one that needs constitutional *destruction*. Leave the AU Constitution in tact, create new laws if necessary, but only if necessary to /fix/ issues and problems that really do need to be addressed, but definitely do not risk the integrity of the Constitution under any circumstances, it really is not worth the risk and changes may very well lead to it being effectively useless, ala not worth the paper it is printed on. Cheers A. Hello. I think that this sub-thread has digressed from both the original post, and, from the nature of the mailing list, too far. I disagree with you on a number of points, but, I believe, it would be inappropriate to further discuss these points, in this thread, and, on this list. So, I leave this particular fork. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a
use of video w/skype [was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7]
On 08/04/2014 01:36 AM Bret Busby wrote: How many different people do you want to be able to video chat with? What's your purpose? Figure out what you want to do, and you probably don't need skype at all. Relatives and acquaintances (for me), would be good, and, some people of whom I have no knowledge. I have immediate family members in a couple of countries, that I might not even recognise, now, not having seen them for a while, and, distant relatives (I have been into genealogical research), in various countries around the world. For a long time I waited for OpenMoko to integrate a camera into their phone, but finally gave up and got a Samsung running Android. I use skype w/ video on it oftentimes to show people around my house (e.g., a couple Buddhist monks from Bhutan who'd never been outside their own country). I also used it with a car mechanic friend when I wanted to show him part of my car's engine I was working on and needed his help with. I also found skype video handy when talking with a friend in another language and I didn't know the translation for an object I was talking about... I just pointed the camera at it. There are a lot of reasons to have and use video when phoning with someone, watching each other's faces while talking being, for me, the least of them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53df55b7.10...@mousecar.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/08/2014, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Yeah, okay. But, some people with whom I have communicated, do not want others to see them, when they are talking to them. And, to me, Skype was a wonderful facility - video calls are a wonderful opportunity, of which people who do not have bandwidth issues, have been reluctant to take up. [...] You know, I find myself wondering what point of view I'm defending. All I know is that we are in the middle of a war right now, and things are going to be harder than they were for a while. We have to keep our sense of humor until things settle down again. (If I had someone who would fund me, I could produce a video chat system that would be similar to google's, but not depend on central servers. There are lots of people like me, one of us is going to get the money and time to do it. God did not intend computers to be used making rich people richer, if you'll pardon me getting a little religious.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. Regarding the perception of conspiracy, I like the proverb attributed, I believe, to Napoleon Bonaparte - Do not always attribute to malice, what can be attributed to incompetence - the problem, I believe, is in the ability to differentiate the intent. The problem (and solution) in that is that malice is one popular form of incompetence. -- Joel Rees Computers were given us by God so that we could communicate with each other and keep our family histories. All other uses are spurious, and should be tolerated only when they don't interfere with the primary purposes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caar43iow7f_l1yjl9hyzfsiozagb+4rkjdvqxa2dzt+aw7e...@mail.gmail.com
Australian law was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Monday 04 August 2014 09:44:31 Andrew McGlashan wrote: I wonder about Kirby myself. To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding a matter of fact via *their* opinion. If the law says xa and the opinion says xb ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide xb instead of the letter of the law that is xa. I could never understand how the courts could get away with that. Judges should not be judge and jury as they often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law, not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems to be a great offender of my view of what is required here. Australia uses English Law, i.e. Common Law. This paragraph is therefore, I'm afraid, simply wrong. You are recognising Statute Law, and ignoring Common Law. Common Law is at least as important, and goes back a lot further. It *is* the courts that decide and not Parliament. Even with Statute Law, it is the courts which decide what it means and how it is to be applied. One can argue that there is a lot wrong with English Law. I frequently do. But it is, as a matter of fact, much as you or I or anyone else may dislike it, the courts that decide the facts and not Parliament. A barrister can give an opinion. A judge decides the facts (as they stand in law, which may bear very little resemblance to the real world). The common law system, as developed in the United Kingdom, forms the basis of Australian jurisprudence. http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/legal_system.html Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201408041204.37536.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Monday 04 August 2014 10:08:59 Bret Busby wrote: I disagree with you on a number of points, but, I believe, it would be inappropriate to further discuss these points, in this thread, and, on this list. Good for you and sorry. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201408041205.25586.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 2014-08-04, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: I think that this sub-thread has digressed from both the original post, and, from the nature of the mailing list, too far. No shit. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnltuuaj.2eb.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: Australian law was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 4/08/2014 9:04 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Monday 04 August 2014 09:44:31 Andrew McGlashan wrote: I wonder about Kirby myself. To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding a matter of fact via *their* opinion. If the law says xa and the opinion says xb ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide xb instead of the letter of the law that is xa. I could never understand how the courts could get away with that. Judges should not be judge and jury as they often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law, not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems to be a great offender of my view of what is required here. Australia uses English Law, i.e. Common Law. This paragraph is therefore, I'm afraid, simply wrong. You are recognising Statute Law, and ignoring Common Law. Common Law is at least as important, and goes back a lot further. It *is* the courts that decide and not Parliament. Even with Statute Law, it is the courts which decide what it means and how it is to be applied. One can argue that there is a lot wrong with English Law. I frequently do. But it is, as a matter of fact, much as you or I or anyone else may dislike it, the courts that decide the facts and not Parliament. A barrister can give an opinion. A judge decides the facts (as they stand in law, which may bear very little resemblance to the real world). The common law system, as developed in the United Kingdom, forms the basis of Australian jurisprudence. http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/legal_system.html Yes, I do understand what you are saying. If the law is open to interpretation, then chances are it hasn't been written properly. It should be black and white ... that's why people get away with loopholes. A judge should adjudicate according to the facts, not according to /his or her/ opinion of those facts and how they relate to the actual law. The judge's opinion should come in to sentencing, rather than guilt or innocence. If that is not true, then it's just another reason to call the law an ass. And sure, if there are natural common law rights that are being trampled by the statute law, then perhaps then the statute is invalid and it should be referred back to parliament to fix the law to suit the facts and/or intention appropriately. Thanks Lisi. Cheers A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53df7c66.7010...@affinityvision.com.au
Re: Australian law was: Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
Well, now maybe I can find a place to sort of drag this thread back almost on topic for the list. On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 4/08/2014 9:04 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Monday 04 August 2014 09:44:31 Andrew McGlashan wrote: I wonder about Kirby myself. To me, it shouldn't be the court deciding a matter of fact via *their* opinion. If the law says xa and the opinion says xb ... then it is up to the parliament to correct the situation if it is faulty, not the courts to decide xb instead of the letter of the law that is xa. I could never understand how the courts could get away with that. Judges should not be judge and jury as they often are, they should only rely on the facts, 100% facts of the law, not their opinion to make a judgement against the facts and Kirby seems to be a great offender of my view of what is required here. Australia uses English Law, i.e. Common Law. This paragraph is therefore, I'm afraid, simply wrong. You are recognising Statute Law, and ignoring Common Law. Common Law is at least as important, and goes back a lot further. It *is* the courts that decide and not Parliament. Even with Statute Law, it is the courts which decide what it means and how it is to be applied. One can argue that there is a lot wrong with English Law. I frequently do. But it is, as a matter of fact, much as you or I or anyone else may dislike it, the courts that decide the facts and not Parliament. A barrister can give an opinion. A judge decides the facts (as they stand in law, which may bear very little resemblance to the real world). The common law system, as developed in the United Kingdom, forms the basis of Australian jurisprudence. http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/legal_system.html Yes, I do understand what you are saying. If the law is open to interpretation, then chances are it hasn't been written properly. It's funny, because I would say the exact opposite. It should be black and white ... that's why people get away with loopholes. Laws and computer programs have some things in common. Some things not so much in common. One thing they have in common is bugs. It's impossible to write a bug-free program. And it's impossible to write a law without the legal equivalent of bugs. One point of difference, in programs we group design bugs and implementation bugs under the one umbrella of bugs. In laws, we have the term loopholes, and we sometimes talk about bad law. But loopholes are not necessarily bugs. And bad law can be bad by design or by implementation, but calling law bad-by-design is so close to an assertion of treason that we too often hesitate to do so. It's a similar problem to discerning between a bug and a feature, but we are supposed to be operating according to the law while we are trying to analyze its correctness. And we know about programs that try to analyze themselves for correctness, but we don't have any alternative with the law. Unless someone or something is above the law, and we know better than to try to make any human above the law. At least we should. A judge should adjudicate according to the facts, not according to /his or her/ opinion of those facts and how they relate to the actual law. The judge's opinion should come in to sentencing, rather than guilt or innocence. Perhaps the biggest difference between law and computer programs is that programs have a fairly-well defined CPU and run-time environment to run the program in. Law, no. Each human is different, each human's context (life, family/friends/neighbors/enemies, history, etc.) is different. Sometimes so drastically different that no agreement can be found on the meaning of fairly simple concepts like sweet or bitter. Or guilt and innocence. If that is not true, then it's just another reason to call the law an ass. Ever wonder why I call MSWindows a bad OS? (I know you probably don't care why I do, but you should be wondering why you have whatever opinion you have of Microsoft's or Apple's or whomever's software. And sure, if there are natural common law rights that are being trampled by the statute law, then perhaps then the statute is invalid and it should be referred back to parliament to fix the law to suit the facts and/or intention appropriately. Or perhaps the traditions which common law represents have some failing in them. Either way, I would prefer the law-making bodies spend more time examining the appropriateness of existing law than making new law. Kind of like I'd like Microsoft to quit making new OSses and fix the ones they've already foisted on the world, but at least we almost have a choice to avoid Microsoft. (Start fixing them by putting a real OS underneath. Kind of like the real way to fix the old Mac OS was something we already had, but Apple didn't want to release A/UX at non-industrial prices. Kind of like the way to fix sysvinit is not by replacing it by
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Debian 6 is oldstable so why shouldn't MS decide to withdraw Skype support? Didn't Google withdraw Chrome support recently? (There was a thread about this.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=sxq5juvms4yymcnhly39hltzkudzoyoisct5oa5+zh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: There must be an alternative to Skype. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/ In theory but not in practice - unless you want to use one of the above and talk to yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SyS1cWfT=ts2t7sjk1x2eaecphgwzdseohjpb60+2p...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards. Google has too much money and is out of control. The NSA has too much money and is out of our control. There is a difference. Sometimes only minor, but mostly not so minor. Sure, there are lots of trust problems. Microsoft and Google are great big US companies ... that's a problem just to start with; the US Government or any of their agents can easily destroy all your privacy any time they like. Apple is somewhat better, but still a US company, subject to the same problems (they also have a huge Apple tax for consideration too ... larger than most other taxes, even the M$ taxes that are paid for licensed software). If you have a smart phone, chances are it is Android (Google owned IP and control) or iOS (Apple owned IP and control). Even if you have a Linux based phone (other than Android), then you still have the issues of components above the OS to consider. Sure you could use Cyanogen Mod, but that is still based on Android ... just less Google. Further on trust, given what we know now about BadUSB and all the stuff in the NSA /store/ ... you can't even trust any hardware! In terms of hardware, I don't want any fingerprint readers, nor do I want any other unwanted spying /tools/ to be available to the spooks. Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons to the issues with Microsoft / Google / Apple being based in the US. The mobile I want today is the OnePlus One ... Chinese made, can we trust them? It's a very, very sorry state of affairs when you realize that you cannot trust any company to keep you safe and with privacy; with limited or no trust in hardware, ditto for software. As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/ from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies. Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy related technology. The biggest impediment to doing video calls is the bandwidth or lack thereof worldwide ... in AU we have a stick government that got voted in thanks to the media doing a real hatchet job on the previous government. No government is perfect, but at least our former government was working towards giving us fibre to the premise, not that it would have solved all bandwidth issues, it would have helped greatly; the current government wants to give us fraudband for not much less in real cost to build and far greater cost to operate -- it's a political mess and we all [or least a great majority] suffer the consequences. I'll still stay clear of Skype, I don't need it. I don't use Google Hangouts, but one day I might; the latter would definitely be my choice of the two. We need a Google Hangouts version from Duck Duck Go or similar. In the past I've tried Ekiga, but it was never good for me. Recently I've tried RedPhone, but again network issues and lack of bandwidth / local servers is a problem. VoIP can do video without Skype and there are some VoIP servers that have [at least in the past], managed to be a gateway to Skype users -- not sure if that was limited to voice, but it probably was. I'm sure there must be some other suitable alternative offering voice and video securely and widely. Cheers A. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: snip If you have a smart phone, chances are it is Android (Google owned IP and control) or iOS (Apple owned IP and control). Even if you have a Linux based phone (other than Android), then you still have the issues of components above the OS to consider. Sure you could use Cyanogen Mod, but that is still based on Android ... just less Google. snip I do not have a smart phone - I have an Oldies Phone - an unblocked Telstra EasyCall, with decent sized buttons, made in Taiwan, or some other Asian country, so that I mostly press the correct button, instead of trying to answer an incoming call and instead turning on an unwanted camera, and, for telephone use, not camera/radio/GPS/phaser and all of the other non telephone stuff. Further on trust, given what we know now about BadUSB and all the stuff in the NSA /store/ ... you can't even trust any hardware! In terms of hardware, I don't want any fingerprint readers, nor do I want any other unwanted spying /tools/ to be available to the spooks. Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons to the issues with Microsoft / Google / Apple being based in the US. The mobile I want today is the OnePlus One ... Chinese made, can we trust them? It's a very, very sorry state of affairs when you realize that you cannot trust any company to keep you safe and with privacy; with limited or no trust in hardware, ditto for software. As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/ from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies. Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy related technology. Remember, apart from Fraser using the CIA to oust Whitlam, we have http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-14/dsd-asked-nsa-for-help-in-spying-on-australian/5453480 GLENN GREENWALD: Nobody disputes that there is some legitimate state surveillance, including surveilling people where there's evidence to believe that they're engaged in violence or terrorism or other forms of threatening behaviour. I've been writing about this issue for many years and I've never once encountered somebody who believes there should be no state surveillance. The problem is, and if you look at the letter, which we publish in relevant parts, they're not asking for very specific individuals to be surveilled; they're asking for a wide surveillance net to be cast over the Australian communications system. And so, the problem with it is that, historically, whenever you allow government officials to engage in mass surveillance, which is what these systems are, the abuse is virtually inevitable. I think it would be a much different story if the letter were saying, 'Here are 35 people we're concerned about and we'd like you to help us watch them.' But that's now what the letter was; it was asking for, more or less, indiscriminate surveillance on Australians generally. The NSA watches everyone Australian, for the Australian federal parliament. The SS and the government(s) must know everything about anyone, and, no doubt, the KGB and the Chinese equivalent, see all of the classified information, so they all know who you communicate with, what is communicated with you, and, with whom, you have relationships of any sort, and, exactly what each relationships involve, and, how frequently. The voyeurs do have to be able to get their jollies. The biggest impediment to doing video calls is the bandwidth or lack thereof worldwide ... in AU we have a stick government that got voted in thanks to the media doing a real hatchet job on the previous government. No government is perfect, but at least our former government was working towards giving us fibre to the premise, not that it would have solved all bandwidth issues, it would have helped greatly; the current government wants to give us fraudband for not much less in real cost to build and far greater cost to operate -- it's a political mess and we all [or least a great majority] suffer the consequences. We have adequate bandwidth, with ADSL2+ - as I previously said, Skype 2.2 worked well enough for me. Whilst it was not high resolution (I think it went up to 640x480), or, high frame rate, and, occasionally, I would get frame dropout (?), it was generally good enough, for me. And, I was happy, and, it was an exciting experience, to be able to see people with who I was communicating, and, to be able to see thir reactions to what happened in the course of a dialogue. And, now, that has been taken away, for the sake of taking it away. And, just out of interest, whilst the policy of the Loony Nazi Party government, is fibre to the exchange, copper from the exchange to the house, I am advised that the installation of fibre to the house, is, at this stage,
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: snip In terms of hardware, I don't want any fingerprint readers, nor do I want any other unwanted spying /tools/ to be available to the spooks. Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons to the issues with Microsoft / Google / Apple being based in the US. The mobile I want today is the OnePlus One ... Chinese made, can we trust them? It's a very, very sorry state of affairs when you realize that you cannot trust any company to keep you safe and with privacy; with limited or no trust in hardware, ditto for software. As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/ from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies. Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy related technology. Remember, apart from Fraser using the CIA to oust Whitlam, we have http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-14/dsd-asked-nsa-for-help-in-spying-on-australian/5453480 GLENN GREENWALD: Nobody disputes that there is some legitimate state surveillance, including surveilling people where there's evidence to believe that they're engaged in violence or terrorism or other forms of threatening behaviour. I've been writing about this issue for many years and I've never once encountered somebody who believes there should be no state surveillance. The problem is, and if you look at the letter, which we publish in relevant parts, they're not asking for very specific individuals to be surveilled; they're asking for a wide surveillance net to be cast over the Australian communications system. And so, the problem with it is that, historically, whenever you allow government officials to engage in mass surveillance, which is what these systems are, the abuse is virtually inevitable. I think it would be a much different story if the letter were saying, 'Here are 35 people we're concerned about and we'd like you to help us watch them.' But that's now what the letter was; it was asking for, more or less, indiscriminate surveillance on Australians generally. The immediate next part of that interview; MARK COLVIN: So, what do you think is the single most important thing that Edward Snowden has revealed? GLENN GREENWALD: I think, you know, I'm asked that question fairly often and I could name some really significant, specific stories, but ultimately what I really believe is the most enduring and consequential revelation is that the goal of the NSA and its four English-speaking surveillance partners, which includes Australia, the UK and New Zealand and Canada, is captured by this phrase that appears over and over in the documents which is, 'collect it all'. They are not trying simply to collect the communication of terror suspects or people who are viewed as radical extremists; they literally want to store and gather and, when they want, monitor and analyse all forms of human communication that take place electronically between all human beings on the planet. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8o8ikfkxxxmkntpwzty9_ao-gmd2okkyvrxmfxcpp_...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 3/08/2014 6:46 PM, Bret Busby wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au I do not have a smart phone - I have an Oldies Phone - an unblocked Telstra EasyCall, with decent sized buttons, made in Taiwan, or some other Asian country, so that I mostly press the correct button, instead of trying to answer an incoming call and instead turning on an unwanted camera, and, for telephone use, not camera/radio/GPS/phaser and all of the other non telephone stuff. I bet there is still the ability to do things with your more simple phone than you realize. The NSA watches everyone Australian, for the Australian federal parliament. The SS and the government(s) must know everything about anyone, and, no doubt, the KGB and the Chinese equivalent, see all of the classified information, so they all know who you communicate with, what is communicated with you, and, with whom, you have relationships of any sort, and, exactly what each relationships involve, and, how frequently. The voyeurs do have to be able to get their jollies. I don't doubt that for one minute, but the world is under surveillance .. including US citizens; it will continue indefinitely if they can manage to keep the funds (under both true and false pretenses). We have adequate bandwidth, with ADSL2+ - as I previously said, Skype 2.2 worked well enough for me. Whilst it was not high resolution (I think it went up to 640x480), or, high frame rate, and, occasionally, I would get frame dropout (?), it was generally good enough, for me. And, I was happy, and, it was an exciting experience, to be able to see people with who I was communicating, and, to be able to see thir reactions to what happened in the course of a dialogue. ADSL2 is great, so long as you are close enough to the exchange AND your local exchange or other parts of the network path are not congested. And, just out of interest, whilst the policy of the Loony Nazi Party government, is fibre to the exchange, copper from the exchange to the house, I am advised that the installation of fibre to the house, is, at this stage, still unchanged, and the copper to the house, has not yet been imposed. So, I believe it is not a bandwidth problem. It is for some, due to cable length of their DSL service and/or congestion (local or otherwise). And, in terms of party politics, remember that the whole of the federal parliament, agreed that Australians are not entitled to human rights, and thence, to the protections (such as they exist elsewhere) of a Bill of Rights. Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here: http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/ Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false pretenses. Local councils corporations operate as local government bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ... legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them an inch, they'll take a 100 miles! And as for the recognition of Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person, no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by our constitution. Aboriginals are no different to other Australians, every person is covered. They want to screw the Constitution under the guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and we'll lose even more rights. The bottom line remains unchanged - with Skype 2.2, and it not having the advances of the later versions of Skype, I could engage in video calls, using Debian 6, the operating system of my choice, and, with people using different versions of different operating systems, so that I could see the person with whom I was communicating, and, in motion, as we communicated (which allows for seeing changes in expressions, due to a person's reaction to things said), and, that was both ways, and, now, Microsoft has taken away that facility and that functionality. It may not be that simple for all sorts of reasons. There might be bandaid fixes in place for old versions that they want or need to remove for other reasons. Of course, it may still be simple just the same. Cheers A. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 6:46 PM, Bret Busby wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au I do not have a smart phone - I have an Oldies Phone - an unblocked Telstra EasyCall, with decent sized buttons, made in Taiwan, or some other Asian country, so that I mostly press the correct button, instead of trying to answer an incoming call and instead turning on an unwanted camera, and, for telephone use, not camera/radio/GPS/phaser and all of the other non telephone stuff. I bet there is still the ability to do things with your more simple phone than you realize. Actually, it DOES have an LED torch and an FM radio, but, I prefer to avoid them, and only turn them on, in error. The NSA watches everyone Australian, for the Australian federal parliament. The SS and the government(s) must know everything about anyone, and, no doubt, the KGB and the Chinese equivalent, see all of the classified information, so they all know who you communicate with, what is communicated with you, and, with whom, you have relationships of any sort, and, exactly what each relationships involve, and, how frequently. The voyeurs do have to be able to get their jollies. I don't doubt that for one minute, but the world is under surveillance .. including US citizens; it will continue indefinitely if they can manage to keep the funds (under both true and false pretenses). We have adequate bandwidth, with ADSL2+ - as I previously said, Skype 2.2 worked well enough for me. Whilst it was not high resolution (I think it went up to 640x480), or, high frame rate, and, occasionally, I would get frame dropout (?), it was generally good enough, for me. And, I was happy, and, it was an exciting experience, to be able to see people with who I was communicating, and, to be able to see thir reactions to what happened in the course of a dialogue. ADSL2 is great, so long as you are close enough to the exchange AND your local exchange or other parts of the network path are not congested. We are about 2km from the exchange, I believe. I am aware of the issue of hops and that, like a chain is only as storng as its weakest link, and, its joins, as shown by traceroute, a download can only be as fast as the slowest link (and, the load and capacity of the server(s). And, just out of interest, whilst the policy of the Loony Nazi Party government, is fibre to the exchange, copper from the exchange to the house, I am advised that the installation of fibre to the house, is, at this stage, still unchanged, and the copper to the house, has not yet been imposed. So, I believe it is not a bandwidth problem. It is for some, due to cable length of their DSL service and/or congestion (local or otherwise). And, in terms of party politics, remember that the whole of the federal parliament, agreed that Australians are not entitled to human rights, and thence, to the protections (such as they exist elsewhere) of a Bill of Rights. Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here: http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/ That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two states of Australia. For the whole of Australia, see http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRights.html especially, from the text of the submission made in May 2009, to the Australian Human Rights Consultation Committee http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRightsConsulationCommitteeSubmission_200905.pdf - read the first two pages. I can not copy and paste the relevant text here, but, the first two pages of that submission, with the citation of what was said by Michale Kirby, cover it adequately, I believe Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false pretenses. Local councils corporations operate as local government bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ... legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them an inch, they'll take a 100 miles! It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia. Without federal constitutiional recognition and protection of local governments, state governments like the WA Loony Nazi Party government, are free to, as they are doing, further reduce what little democracy we have, and, force amalgamations of local governments, to reduce further, any representation of the people, in government, so that things happen like my own local government performing the equivalent of Hitler's invasion of Poland, on a neighbouring local government, and, as with parliamentary prohibitions of democracy in Australia, we, the people, have no say in government. That is what happens when we have no human rights, and
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 6:46 PM, Bret Busby wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 9:21 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au snip And, in terms of party politics, remember that the whole of the federal parliament, agreed that Australians are not entitled to human rights, and thence, to the protections (such as they exist elsewhere) of a Bill of Rights. Actually we are subject to a bill of rights, see here: http://www.clrg.info/2011/02/validity-of-bill-of-rights-1688/ That applies only to Victoria - I believe that, like motor vehicle roadworthiness testing, human rights legislation applies to only two states of Australia. I apologise - after posting my response, I realise that the material on that web page, went beyond the first letter, which applies only to Victoria. Thus, that web page relates to two other states, I believ, in addition to Victoria. However, please read the text below, and, please read the citation of what Michael Kirby said - he is much more an authority on the matter, at the Australian federal level. For the whole of Australia, see http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRights.html especially, from the text of the submission made in May 2009, to the Australian Human Rights Consultation Committee, at http://www.armadale-wa.net/politics/HumanRightsConsulationCommitteeSubmission_200905.pdf - read the first two pages. I can not copy and paste the relevant text here, but, the first two pages of that submission, with the citation of what was said by Michale Kirby, cover it adequately, I believe Don't let them screw with our constitution either, under false pretenses. Local councils corporations operate as local government bodies today, but without the rights to do what they are doing ... legitimize those corporations and they'll go gang busters -- give them an inch, they'll take a 100 miles! It depends on how you regard the status of local governments in Australia. Without federal constitutiional recognition and protection of local governments, state governments like the WA Loony Nazi Party government, are free to, as they are doing, further reduce what little democracy we have, and, force amalgamations of local governments, to reduce further, any representation of the people, in government, so that things happen like my own local government performing the equivalent of Hitler's invasion of Poland, on a neighbouring local government, and, as with parliamentary prohibitions of democracy in Australia, we, the people, have no say in government. That is what happens when we have no human rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Politcal Rights, are of no effect, and, the people, for the most part, simply do not care - Evil flourishes where apathy prevails. And as for the recognition of Aboriginals in AU ... that is also completely unnecessary; any person, no matter what, if they set foot in Australian, then they are covered by our constitution. Aboriginals are no different to other Australians, every person is covered. They want to screw the Constitution under the guise of /fixing/ these things, instead they'll f*** things right up and we'll lose even more rights. Regarding the issue of the Aboriginals, and, any other race; I do not know whether you have read the Australian Constitution Act, but, apartheid (= apartness - racial segregation and racial discrimination) is constitutionally legal and enforceable, in Australia. The bottom line remains unchanged - with Skype 2.2, and it not having the advances of the later versions of Skype, I could engage in video calls, using Debian 6, the operating system of my choice, and, with people using different versions of different operating systems, so that I could see the person with whom I was communicating, and, in motion, as we communicated (which allows for seeing changes in expressions, due to a person's reaction to things said), and, that was both ways, and, now, Microsoft has taken away that facility and that functionality. It may not be that simple for all sorts of reasons. There might be bandaid fixes in place for old versions that they want or need to remove for other reasons. Of course, it may still be simple just the same. Cheers A. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: Microsoft and Google are great big US companies ... that's a problem just to start with; the US Government or any of their agents can easily destroy all your privacy any time they like. Are you assuming US companies only gangrape your right to privacy because the US government tells them to? If you have a smart phone, chances are it is Android (Google owned IP and control) or iOS (Apple owned IP and control). Even if you have a Linux based phone (other than Android), then you still have the issues of components above the OS to consider. Sure you could use Cyanogen Mod, but that is still based on Android ... just less Google. Further on trust, given what we know now about BadUSB and all the stuff in the NSA /store/ ... you can't even trust any hardware! ... Anything with Intel inside is also suspect for similar reasons True. For android you have replicant, for hardware you have OpenMoko (which can run Debian, of course). Why would AMD be off the hook? As an Australian, in Australia (all my life), I am supposed to be /free/ from NSA spying, but that doesn't rule out our own security agencies. No one's free from the NSA spying on them, especially online. Every now and then word comes out that the insert one of the many US gov spy agencies here has been spying worldwide. US gov says Oops, sorry, plausible deniability,won't happen again. and it's businesss as usual. Or do you think they won't because you're not american? What was the first big one to be known, Echelon? Nor does it help if I wish to use Tor and/or other encrypting / privacy related technology. What do you mean? Encrypting your own data before it hits the wire seems to be the most plausible means at the moment. Of course... who knows what my laptop's hardware secretly does :) As for Skype: it's a proprietary product based on a proprietary protocol and now recently bought by your friendly neighborhood folks at Redmond. No news there, the change isn't that significant. Yes, there are a bunch of VoIP alternatives but, as someone already stated on this thread, it's great if you wanna talk to yourself (or other like-minded folk). On that note, no one mentioned XMPP with Jingle (used by Google and Facebook, actually). I use skype because i must and it's off when not it use. I use pidgin for everything else (msn, yahoo, aol and a whole bunch of other accounts i've accumulated over the years, like ICQ! :)), because i won't force my friends to move to jabber just because it's The Right Thing to do. Otherwise i'd shove Debian down their throats first. Realistic alternatives to Skype? None. Keep your system pinned, use a VM or chroot or something. Cheers, Nuno -- On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CADqA9uZ0B_dFB4E=t5a3+ef7d1avbz55nffdxma2fohtkbe...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com writes: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards. (snip) At least that you've noticed. (-: A persistently irritating problem with both Skype and Google Hangouts, at least for me, is that they have consistently worked far better and more reliably than any of the open-source alternatives! However, Skype don't even seem to bother offering amd64 packages so, as with acroread, I run it from a 32-bit chroot -- I thus guess that their interest in supporting Linux is minimal. (I am also irritated with how Google's package sneakily adds its own /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ file.) I put some effort into getting Linphone and Jitsi working, and over several years now Ekiga -- including compiling patched versions, capturing and sharing so many debug logs, trying different combinations of codecs, etc. -- and, while the Ekiga developers are consistently communicative and helpful, I never managed to get to a point where I could make a call with any confidence that we would have audio and video going in both directions for as long as we wanted to talk. It's been both surprising and frustrating as I don't see technically why we shouldn't be able to get it to work better: the networks and NAT traversal seem otherwise reliable when I test the same ports with nc and am doing other stuff remotely with those systems. In some cases I can actually ssh into the machines of the people I would like to call, and sudo -- I've caught myself wondering if I could just construct some pipeline of commands to capture, encode, forward and play audio and video streams, with the help of mplayer or whatever, allowing a poor man's version of open-source videotelephony without actually having to try to get any of the actual videotelephone software working well. -- Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87k36pwzvj@ixod.org
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 05:30:47 +1000 Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it worked super nodes, anyone? Since M$ took ownership, well, that just made it a more bad idea. There must be an alternative to Skype. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/ Cheers A. The trouble I see with alternatives is the legalese, every one of which forces you to indemnify the vendor. What indemnification really means is: If a third party sues the vendor for anything alleged to involve your use of the service, you pay all legal fees and damages for the vendor. A lot of them go on to say that the vendor will determine the legal strategy, which could be as simple as give him $200K to get him off our backs, in which case, whoops, there goes the house. The less of these I participate in, the better I like it. I spoze we've all signed one for Google, so that might be the way to go: No new indemnifications that way. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140803114739.0ac33...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: snip And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important than your need to communicate cheap. It is not a matter of communicating cheap. The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we are most likely to call. It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused - I don't want people to see what I really look like. There are other reasons for not using video. (In my case, about a thousand yen a month to raise my fundamental bandwidth, which won't do much good because so many of the home routers here are, shall we just say, cheap, and lately there has been a lot of low-level-protocol amplified noise. (Assumed intentional, as in skriptkiddies trying to prove their cred, but I'm not going to lay all the blame on the skriptkiddies when the routers shouldn't have been vulnerable in the first place.) I assume that wheezy is Debian 7. Yeah. I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be not up to scratch when compared to Debian 6. As in, ... I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE - GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is concerned) that I have so far found. I feel your pain. Gnome 2 was useable. XFCE is not unuseable, however. Well, not entirely. But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version, then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then reappears...). I like sylpheed, sort-of, but google's filters that don't really do what I want, but make it a little easier to just ignore the arcanities of e-mail filtering, well, they are addicting, I guess. I admit that I have a lot of mail archives in various formats sitting around, waiting for me to write a good program to decode them (much of the mail contains a lot of shift-JIS characters) and automatically layout a good set of directories so I can search through them reasonably. So, I will continue to use Debian 6 for most of my stuff, and, may use Debian 7 from time to time. With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running Linux, and, with people running MS Windows. It worked, so Microsoft broke it. [...] And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known. Anyway, you definitely know now. No, I had no advanced warning, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread. But, I know now, and, have lost access to videocalls. Annoying. I guess you didn't really want to believe that Microsoft's management will never, ever let engineering put out good product, and if they do, will absolutely never let them maintain it? (The OS, of course, is not good product. Maintaining it is one of their revenue streams, even though home users sort-of get the updates for free.) So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use your application. I do not have the skills. And, I am now too old, and past it, to learn skills like that. Can you wire up a web cam? Show the person you want to talk with how to do the same? Take it a few steps at a time, get the connection working, then play with basic authentication, then add https into the mix, with self-signed certs. And if you're planning on monitoring an elderly relative, maybe you'll need to write a little filter that does a little byte-order scramble of the data stream, eventually. How many different people do you want to be able to video chat with? What's your purpose? Figure out what you want to do, and you probably don't need skype at all. Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an ordinary user level OS or something. I have another computer, as mentioned above, that runs Debian 7, and, it gets powered up, sometimes. Using that, for something like Skype, is a bit like having a landline, and, plugging the phone in, for an hour or so, each
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun, 3 Aug 2014 03:05:28 -0400 Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Debian 6 is oldstable so why shouldn't MS decide to withdraw Skype support? Didn't Google withdraw Chrome support recently? (There was a thread about this.) I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Thanks for the info, I was using Skype with 2 accounts(2.2.025beta) opened simultaneously on Squeeze. It was very convenient to speak with persons living in other worlds. Bye bye Skype! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140804102640.7343bda8@asus.tamerr
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 04/08/2014, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: snip And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important than your need to communicate cheap. It is not a matter of communicating cheap. The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we are most likely to call. It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused - I don't want people to see what I really look like. There are other reasons for not using video. (In my case, about a thousand yen a month to raise my fundamental bandwidth, which won't do much good because so many of the home routers here are, shall we just say, cheap, and lately there has been a lot of low-level-protocol amplified noise. (Assumed intentional, as in skriptkiddies trying to prove their cred, but I'm not going to lay all the blame on the skriptkiddies when the routers shouldn't have been vulnerable in the first place.) Yeah, okay. But, some people with whom I have communicated, do not want others to see them, when they are talking to them. And, to me, Skype was a wonderful facility - video calls are a wonderful opportunity, of which people who do not have bandwidth issues, have been reluctant to take up. And, yes, they were free, but, what landline telecommunications service, offers video calls as part of its service (and, without phenomenally high fees)? And, that are platform (and, network) independent, thus allowing a person subscribed to one telecommunications provider, the ability to freely (without obstruction, rather than free of charge) communicate with anyone the person wants, regardless of what equipment (including software), and, telecommunications service provider, the other person is using? Okay, Skype is proprietary software, and, it is now owned by one of the most disreputable companies in the world, which is now shown to have taken it over, for malicious reasoning, including disrupting communications and attempted forcing assimmilation, but, while Skype 2.2 was usable, it was a wonderful thing. And, with the video-conferencing facility (whilst the new Skype, is apparently, limited to 10 nodes, it should be able, with development, to be expanded), is a wonderful opportunity to allow virtual, visual, attendance at distant meetings, and, here in Australia, with its distances, we have local, state, and federal governments ( a massively over-governed, in terms of levels and chambers of governments, and, far too many bludging members of each level of government), that could hold their sittings, using video-conferencing, if it was adequately developed, instead of costing the country, thousands of millions of dollars in unnecessary travel with little worthwhile outcome. I assume that wheezy is Debian 7. Yeah. I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be not up to scratch when compared to Debian 6. As in, ... I believe that I previously said, it does not have iceape, and, other functionality, that Debian 6 has (had). See reference below, to the lack of iceape, in Debian 7. I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE - GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is concerned) that I have so far found. I feel your pain. Gnome 2 was useable. XFCE is not unuseable, however. Well, not entirely. I tried it, and, did not like it, so tried LXDE, and, much prefer LXDE. But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version, then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then reappears...). There its is - I was sure that I had mentioned it, somewhere I like sylpheed, sort-of, but google's filters that don't really do what I want, but make it a little easier to just ignore the arcanities of e-mail filtering, well, they are addicting, I guess. I use alpine (formerly known as pine) - very powerful filtering, as long as a user keeps within its limitations ( a filter cann not exceed 2kb, form memory, and, some of my ((few hundred or so) filters, have pages of field values). From what I understand, alpine is the safest, and, most powerful, email application. I just haven't managed to get return receipt requests (one of
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 08/02/2014 02:29 PM, Bret Busby wrote: I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is available for Debian 6. You can try to install the deb package on Debian 6. If the dependencies can be fulfilled, it should work. Chances are that they can't be satisfied with the older versions in Debian 6, but it's worth trying. -- A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular. -- Adlai Stevenson Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53dd2cf6.1050...@kalinowski.com.br
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is available for Debian 6. Of skype?! Don't think so, no. I guess you can always chroot it. Or try ubuntu packages. I doubt M$ will put any efforts in releasing non-Windows versions, let alone open-source. Cheers, Nuno -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cadqa9uye3rs_7jvu6m-otufoaqusknejys6yqa6dy6y9uvi...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: Hello. I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. How did you find out? With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. What error message? Please post it. Where on the Skype web site did you find something? A link would be much appreciated. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is available for Debian 6. There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02082014193539.6f9e68718...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
Hello, There was an email sent out by Skype within the last couple of weeks which stated that I was using an old version of skype that would cease to function if I did not update (deleted the email). The below post on the Skype blog states So everyone can benefit from the latest improvements, we’ll retire older versions of Skype across all platforms, including mobile devices, in the near future. http://blogs.skype.com/2014/07/16/update-skype-now-to-improve-your-experience/ The following shows what linux users would see with an old version: https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA34438/why-should-i-update-my-skype-version-what-do-i-need-to-do-to-update-my-skype-version-and-continue-using-skype which links to below which details requirements (Debian 6.0+) but this probably hasn't been updated for the most recent skype release. https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-are-the-system-requirements-for-skype On Sat, 2 Aug 2014, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: Hello. I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. How did you find out? With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. What error message? Please post it. Where on the Skype web site did you find something? A link would be much appreciated. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is available for Debian 6. There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02082014193539.6f9e68718...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it worked super nodes, anyone? Since M$ took ownership, well, that just made it a more bad idea. There must be an alternative to Skype. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/ Cheers A. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Stephen Maxwell step...@fastmail.co.uk wrote: Hello, There was an email sent out by Skype within the last couple of weeks which stated that I was using an old version of skype that would cease to function if I did not update (deleted the email). I did not receive that email message. Below are the only two email messages that I gave received from Skype, since December 2010. The below post on the Skype blog states So everyone can benefit from the latest improvements, we’ll retire older versions of Skype across all platforms, including mobile devices, in the near future. http://blogs.skype.com/2014/07/16/update-skype-now-to-improve-your-experience/ The following shows what linux users would see with an old version: https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA34438/why-should-i-update-my-skype-version-what-do-i-need-to-do-to-update-my-skype-version-and-continue-using-skype which links to below which details requirements (Debian 6.0+) but this probably hasn't been updated for the most recent skype release. https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-are-the-system-requirements-for-skype On the Download Skype for Linux web page, with Choose your distribution, the only option for Debian, is Debian 7.0 (multiarch) On Sat, 2 Aug 2014, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: Hello. I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. How did you find out? With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. What error message? Please post it. Where on the Skype web site did you find something? A link would be much appreciated. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is available for Debian 6. There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02082014193539.6f9e68718...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 \-- Forwarded message -- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 07:53:55 From: Skype aler...@emails.skype.com To: b...@busby.net Subject: Update Skype to get the latest in group chat Can't see this email properly? http://emails.skype.com/r/c/r?2.1.3OM.2w%2a.3QljMQ.HcxGX0..N.EOJS.5BS.bW89MSZyc19lZT1ZbkpsZEVCaWRYTmllUzV1WlhRXyZyc19vYz1OJnJzX2J2PUgmcnNfbXY9SCZyc19reT0zUWxqTVE%5fDaQYMWD0 New group chat requires Skype update - Dear Valued Customer, To ensure that your group chats continue to work properly, you need to update your version of Skype. Update Skype: http://emails.skype.com/r/c/r?2.1.3OM.2w%2a.3QljMQ.HcxGX0..N.EOJK.5BS.bW89MSZyc29tbmk9RU1BRF8yMjEyXzA5MDQxNEFVZW4%5fDfSAIKA0 What else is changing? In order to use the following features, you will need to update your version of Skype: * Send and receive instant messages when your contacts are offline. * View your group chats and chat history across multiple devices. * Sync all messages across devices. * Group notification settings on one device will roam across all your devices. Update Skype: http://emails.skype.com/r/c/r?2.1.3OM.2w%2a.3QljMQ.HcxGX0..N.EOJK.5BS.bW89MSZyc29tbmk9RU1BRF8yMjEyXzA5MDQxNEFVZW4%5fDfSAIKA0 What's new with group chats? Read more about the changes we have made to group chat Learn more: http://emails.skype.com/r/c/r?2.1.3OM.2w%2a.3QljMQ.HcxGX0..N.EOJM.5BS.bW89MSZyc29tbmk9RU1BRF8yMjEyXzA5MDQxNEFVZW4%5fDfdAIKC0 Thank you, Skype (c) 2014 Skype and/or Microsoft. Terms of use http://emails.skype.com/r/c/r?2.1.3OM.2w%2a.3QljMQ.HcxGX0..N.EOJO.5BS.bW89MSZyc29tbmk9RU1BRF8yMjEyXzA5MDQxNEFVZW4%5fIeIKE000 Privacy http://emails.skype.com/r/c/r?2.1.3OM.2w%2a.3QljMQ.HcxGX0..N.EOJQ.5BS.bW89MSZyc29tbmk9RU1BRF8yMjEyXzA5MDQxNEFVZW4%5fTeIKG000 Unsubscribe https://msfteee.acxiomdigital.net/linkgen/skype.aspx?publisherID=10700publicationid=11957e=bret%40busby.netmid=3669939610cid=18906679360 Skype Communications S.A.R.L. 23-29 Rives de Clausen, L-2165 Luxembourg. *No
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards. I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it worked super nodes, anyone? Since M$ took ownership, well, that just made it a more bad idea. There must be an alternative to Skype. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/ And, how many opf those, work with Debian Linux 6? And, how many (if any) that work with Debian Linux 6, interface successfully with other operating systems, such as MS Windows? With, as an example, Ekiga, on the Ekiga list, a response was something likeif you want a working version, you need to be running, for Debian, Debian testing or unstable, when Devbian 6 was Debian stable - no working version would be released for Debian 6. With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running Linux, and, with people running MS Windows. It worked, so Microsoft broke it. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8pdmy6pktubxh8qaa_sm6dw+0ryymhwbktfgnhpjrf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: Hello. I have found, in the last day, that Microsoft has apparently cancelled Skype access for versions of Debian before 7.x. How did you find out? (Please excuse the verbose and convoluted material below in this part - it is a poorly designed web site, designed to obscure the important information.) By going to the Skype web site; http://www.skype.com/en/ to find whether a message relating to the error below, indicated a problem with the server. On the home page for Skype, is Having trouble signing into your Skype app? You may need to update your version of Skype. In selecting the Support - Support Home link, which leads to https://support.skype.com/en/ then clicking on the link, under the heading TOP FAQs, with the label I can't sign in to Skype... which leads to https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA109/i-can-t-sign-in-to-skype on which web page is If you can’t sign into Skype because you can’t connect to Skype, check here., with the last two words of that sentence, being a label for a link that leads to https://support.skype.com/en/category/CONNECTION_ISSUES/ which has Why should I update my Skype Version? What do I need to do to update my Skype version and continue using Skype? which is a label fopr a link that leads to https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA34438/why-should-i-update-my-skype-version-what-do-i-need-to-do-to-update-my-skype-version-and-continue-using-skype which has Skype for Linux 2.2/4.2 which is a label for a clickable javascript (unpleasant word for faeces) link, that opens up a kinmd of inline pop-up, that includes the text (that prohibits copying and pasting, as I assume that the inline pop-up, is entirely an image) 1. Skype will display one of the messages circled below with the first one showing the error message below, in the login dialogue box for Skype 2.2 (beta) - see https://az545065.vo.msecnd.net/skype-faq-media/faq_content/skype/screenshots/fa34438/fa34438_ddd.png and 2. Open your browser and navigate to the downloads page (downloads page being the label for a clickable link) and download the latest version of Skype. Note that you will need at least a 1GHz processor and at least 256MB of RAM to run the latesty version of Skype; check here to ensure your Linux operating system is supported. The word pair check here is a clickable link, that leads to https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10328/what-are-the-system-requirements-for-skype which is one of the web pages that takes an unreasoinably long time to load. I can not get the web page for the check here to ensure your Linux operating system is supported. to load. But, on the Download Skype for Linux web page, the only option for Debian Linux, is Debian 7.0 (multiarch). And, once again, the Skype web site is a unpleasant word for faeces web site, with web pages taking over an hour to load. Javascript faeces! With the error message that I encountered, with my Skype 2.2 (beta) running on Debian 6, I went to the Skype web site, and found that they have cancelled access for all but the latest version of Skype, and, for Debian, it apparently needs Debian 7.x, to run. What error message? Please post it. The error message, at the login screen, when entering the password and clicking Sign In, is Sign in failed Server connect failed see (the image URL from the particular Skype web site web page) https://az545065.vo.msecnd.net/skype-faq-media/faq_content/skype/screenshots/fa34438/fa34438_ddd.png Where on the Skype web site did you find something? A link would be much appreciated. No notice (on the Skype mailing list) was given. I thought that anyone like me, who is running and using Debian 6 (and anyone using earlier versions of Debian), most of the time, might like to know. Insofar as I am aware, no open source equivalent, that works, is available for Debian 6. There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/02082014193539.6f9e68718...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8O9yV_21Kd_UybQHJ9iF=+cdagx8pobx8i3-ej+uhw...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
Any experiences with linphone, an open source, multi-platform alternative? -- Regards, jvp. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/lrjr2q$d46$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards. Google has too much money and is out of control. The NSA has too much money and is out of our control. There is a difference. Sometimes only minor, but mostly not so minor. I haven't used Skype for a number of years, I was against the way it worked super nodes, anyone? Since M$ took ownership, well, that just made it a more bad idea. There must be an alternative to Skype. Microsoft has been out of our control since it started, and the too much money part goes back at least 20 years. If I couldn't trust google, I wouldn't trust Microsoft. In fact, I still, at this time, use google's free stuff. That won't last, I know. http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fed-up-with-skype-here-are-6-of-the-best-free-alternatives/ And, how many opf those, work with Debian Linux 6? And, how many (if any) that work with Debian Linux 6, interface successfully with other operating systems, such as MS Windows? With, as an example, Ekiga, on the Ekiga list, a response was something likeif you want a working version, you need to be running, for Debian, Debian testing or unstable, when Devbian 6 was Debian stable - no working version would be released for Debian 6. And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important than your need to communicate cheap. With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running Linux, and, with people running MS Windows. It worked, so Microsoft broke it. [...] And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known. Anyway, you definitely know now. So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use your application. Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an ordinary user level OS or something. (I don't use skype, in spite of my sister's hints, because, as much as possible, I don't want anything Microsoft touches on my stuff. When wheezy goes unsupported and the only upgrade path contains systemd, I'll have a hard choice to make. Hopefully, I'll be ready to use openbsd on a daily basis by then. If not, I may decide to use skype after all.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caar43imat3mnetk+w_hf080n04krcad06zdpmcnis-amco1...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Jörg-Volker Peetz jvpe...@web.de wrote: Any experiences with linphone, an open source, multi-platform alternative? -- Regards, jvp. Hello. Yes - I tried that, to connect with another person using Linux, and it did not work. Queries were posted to the Linphone list, in February last year - applying to the version of Linphone for Debian 6 in the Debian repository (the version cited in the messages posted to the Linphone list, appears to be the same as the latest version showing as being available for Debian 6) - no acknowledgement of, or, responses to, the queries posted to the Linphone list. So, overall, the experince with Linphone, was bad. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8Okz8wUUdYbV9hqKa=wtwtqt_nsgyd6gceooxkcfwz...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
I've tried linphone once or twice. The basic issue with SIP phones is that it's not really possible to jump networks. It's kind of like a cellphone network where you can only dial other subscribers of the same network. http://en.flossmanuals.net/linphone/ So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP servers. Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen. But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version. Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own. And I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported OS. On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 01:09:14 +0200 Jörg-Volker Peetz jvpe...@web.de wrote: Any experiences with linphone, an open source, multi-platform alternative? -- Regards, jvp. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/lrjr2q$d46$1...@ger.gmane.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140802192803.bb3b92c0109b7aceb4cb6...@1024bits.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: snip And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important than your need to communicate cheap. It is not a matter of communicating cheap. The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we are most likely to call. It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused - I don't want people to see what I really look like. I assume that wheezy is Debian 7. I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be not up to scratch when compared to Debian 6. I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE - GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is concerned) that I have so far found. But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version, then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then reappears...). So, I will continue to use Debian 6 for most of my stuff, and, may use Debian 7 from time to time. With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running Linux, and, with people running MS Windows. It worked, so Microsoft broke it. [...] And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known. Anyway, you definitely know now. No, I had no advanced warning, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread. But, I know now, and, have lost access to videocalls. Annoying. So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use your application. I do not have the skills. And, I am now too old, and past it, to learn skills like that. Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an ordinary user level OS or something. I have another computer, as mentioned above, that runs Debian 7, and, it gets powered up, sometimes. Using that, for something like Skype, is a bit like having a landline, and, plugging the phone in, for an hour or so, each week, or each month. (I don't use skype, in spite of my sister's hints, because, as much as possible, I don't want anything Microsoft touches on my stuff. When wheezy goes unsupported and the only upgrade path contains systemd, I'll have a hard choice to make. Hopefully, I'll be ready to use openbsd on a daily basis by then. If not, I may decide to use skype after all.) I will likely continue to use Debian 6, long after its support ends. I have a Debian 5 computer, running, as it runs an application upon which I rely (although, no doubt, the wisdom of my continued use of the unsupported application, which is not available on Debian 7, and, I think, on Debian 6, running on the unsupported operating system version, would likely be challenged) I had tried PC-BSD, but, could not install it, and could not get any support from the PC-BSD people or their mailing list. No acknowledgement of , and, no response to, the critical problems. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8orrfpx2bp7pkic_jv0vhw47yrqlif5nfrvnjucfp4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, AW debian.list.trac...@1024bits.com wrote: snip So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP servers. Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen. But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version. Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own. And I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported OS. I did not expect for a new version of Skype, to be wriiten for me or for Debian 6. But, it is a bit like imposing a ban on all IPV4 communications - well we now have IPV6, so anyone with IPV4 can go and get stuffed, or, imposing crippleware on all operating systems and applications - well you have now had that software available for 6 months | 1 year | 2 years and so, we have built in automated death of the software. It does not work anymore. You have to replace it. It is not our problem that you did not know that it was going to die suddenly. We posted a notice at Alpha Centauri, so it is your responsibility to find the notice and be informed that the end has come. It is kind of like that thing with the cars that decided that they did not like the conditions, so they turned themselves off, and came to a stop, in the middle of heavy freeway traffic. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8pfpm9me95bkvpafaegqovbat1u-9+07xcv7rvatgh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, AW debian.list.trac...@1024bits.com wrote: snip So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP servers. Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen. But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version. Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own. And I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported OS. I did not expect for a new version of Skype, to be wriiten for me or for Debian 6. In case it is not clear, it is not that a new version of the software, is not available for Debian 6 - it is that the software that was available for Debian 6, that, as I previously said, worked quite happily, was killed suddenly, without just cause. It is a bit like a street sniper, killing of members of the public - Why did you kill that person? That person did you no harm. Because I can, and, because I like doing it. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8nyobfdct6nw4vwqbc4y2iwhpegxkfblrep2vesvrp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
Unfortunately, software has bugs. Some of these bugs are probably very bad. I don't work for Microsoft, and I don't use Skype. In fact, I haven't used a Microsoft product in many years --- and I would refuse to use one now mostly on principle However, I wouldn't be too surprised that there's a really good reason for Skype servers to require a new version to make a call... I use Debian for nearly everything... I'm sure there's a way to get you back up and running. If you are not sure how and need help, you can certainly ask either here or me directly if you'd like... On Sun, 3 Aug 2014 08:11:22 +0800 Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, AW debian.list.trac...@1024bits.com wrote: snip So, for many users a Skype client is necessary... unless Microsoft decided to work on making Skype fully interoperable with other SIP servers. Although, I somehow doubt this would ever happen. But... To the OP... Debian 6 is no longer a supported version. Updating shouldn't be too hard as long as the machine is your own. And I seriously doubt anyone can truly expect a new version of a freely offered [not free] software package to be built for a now unsupported OS. I did not expect for a new version of Skype, to be wriiten for me or for Debian 6. In case it is not clear, it is not that a new version of the software, is not available for Debian 6 - it is that the software that was available for Debian 6, that, as I previously said, worked quite happily, was killed suddenly, without just cause. It is a bit like a street sniper, killing of members of the public - Why did you kill that person? That person did you no harm. Because I can, and, because I like doing it. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means. - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts, written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cacx6j8nyobfdct6nw4vwqbc4y2iwhpegxkfblrep2vesvrp...@mail.gmail.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140802201658.972fc16a0882f82ff46c6...@1024bits.com
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
On Sun, Aug 03, 2014 at 06:42:38AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: On Sun 03 Aug 2014 at 01:29:57 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: There is no substitute for Skype (either the software or the service) whether it be open or closed source, What about Google Hangouts? That might be a reasonable substitute Google? That is even more sinister than the NSA, isn't it? The NSA doesn't drive around suburbia, filming everyone in their yards. The NSA are smarter than that! They have satellites. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140803004440.GD29992@tal
Re: Skype access cancelled for Debian versions before 7
What is the difference between Microsoft insisting that Bret upgrade from Debian 6 to 7 and other Debian users insisting that Bret upgrade from Debian 6 to 7. Don't Debians know why they don't like Microsoft? !systemd, !systemd, !systemd On 8/2/2014 4:55 PM, Bret Busby wrote: On 03/08/2014, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Bret Busby bret.bu...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/08/2014, Andrew McGlashan andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au wrote: On 3/08/2014 4:39 AM, Brian wrote: snip And the reason I decided to respond was to ask your reason for not wanting to use wheezy. Or, rather, if your reason is more important than your need to communicate cheap. It is not a matter of communicating cheap. The ADSL/landline phone package that we have, includes free calls within this country, and, free landline calls to the countries that we are most likely to call. It is the videocalls facility - a technology that is way underused - I don't want people to see what I really look like. I assume that wheezy is Debian 7. I have Debian 6 set up, and, whilst I have a more powerful computer with Debian 7 installed on it, Debian 7 appears to be not up to scratch when compared to Debian 6. I have now managed to get the Debian 7 computer working with LXDE - GNOME 2 is not available for Debian 7, but, LXDE wil probably do - it is the best desktop environment (insofar as suitability for me, is concerned) that I have so far found. But, Debian 7 does not have iceape, and, Seamonkey is too dificult to get working.And, so, I will likely continue to use Debian 6, as my primary operating system, until an acceptable version of Debian, is available, with iceape (iceape seems to be excluded from one version, then reappears in a later version, then is excluded, then reappears...). So, I will continue to use Debian 6 for most of my stuff, and, may use Debian 7 from time to time. With the Skype 2.2 (beta), running on Debian 6, I was able to connect successfully, and, successfully make videocalls, with people running Linux, and, with people running MS Windows. It worked, so Microsoft broke it. [...] And you knew that was going to happen. Or you should have known. Anyway, you definitely know now. No, I had no advanced warning, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread. But, I know now, and, have lost access to videocalls. Annoying. So, you can build your own chat application if you want, including video and audio. The entertainment and communication industries are trying their hardest to prevent you from getting hardware that isn't roped and tied to IP-laden standards, but you can still do it. All you have to do is convince the people you need to communicate with to use your application. I do not have the skills. And, I am now too old, and past it, to learn skills like that. Or update your OS or get a separate machine to dedicate to an ordinary user level OS or something. I have another computer, as mentioned above, that runs Debian 7, and, it gets powered up, sometimes. Using that, for something like Skype, is a bit like having a landline, and, plugging the phone in, for an hour or so, each week, or each month. (I don't use skype, in spite of my sister's hints, because, as much as possible, I don't want anything Microsoft touches on my stuff. When wheezy goes unsupported and the only upgrade path contains systemd, I'll have a hard choice to make. Hopefully, I'll be ready to use openbsd on a daily basis by then. If not, I may decide to use skype after all.) I will likely continue to use Debian 6, long after its support ends. I have a Debian 5 computer, running, as it runs an application upon which I rely (although, no doubt, the wisdom of my continued use of the unsupported application, which is not available on Debian 7, and, I think, on Debian 6, running on the unsupported operating system version, would likely be challenged) I had tried PC-BSD, but, could not install it, and could not get any support from the PC-BSD people or their mailing list. No acknowledgement of , and, no response to, the critical problems. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53dd9205.2080...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu
