Re: Subscription
On Sunday 19 April 2015 14:20:47 BOANARIJESY ELIACE wrote: > Hello, > > I have used Debian OS for more than three years. It is my favorite OS now. > Today I subscribe to the Debian users. I study informatics at the > university, so it is my first step to be a Debian developers. Could you > confirm, I can use this mail address for asking question to Debian OS. Yes! Welcome. :-) Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201504191453.00929.lisi.re...@gmail.com
[OT] Re: Subscription
On Sat, 19 May 2012 18:39:46 -0400, PMA wrote: > Dear Gurus, Please, don't cross-post. > Please reinstate my Debian forum subscriptions! (...) Wrong list. You have to contact the forums admins. For any specific problem related to Debian mailing lists that you cannot solve by your own, contact the list maintainers: http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html#maintenance Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/jpaksi$u2v$8...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 11:46 +0100, Lisi wrote: > There must be some multi-millionaires who are blind!! It's new technology, not really for the masses. In 100 years and perhaps earlier it could be less expensive or completely removed from the market, hence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant in Germany already is wide spread for the masses and similar technology for the eyes already is existing in an experimental state. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307884254.2416.94.camel@debian
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription [OT]
On 12/06/11 20:46, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 16:42:12 Scott Ferguson wrote: >>> On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > [snipped] That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can use braille to read things on the Internet. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display >> >> >> Literally interpreting your question >> (I used to build machines for people with vision problems) > > Thanks, Scott. :-) > > I meant it literally. I had never come across or heard of a tactile computer > display. The nicest one I ever saw was an image display - a beautifully crafted Huon timber box with a tight grid of holes in the top. Each hole has a stainless steel rod sitting in it - each rod can be raised and lowered by a small drive - at rest they are flush with the top of the box, but can be raised about 1cm. A screen display is scanned and converted to a grayscale which is then analysed. The screen is "gridded" with blocks of pixels represented by individual rods - the darker the colour of the pixel block - the higher the rod is raised. The result is a 3D representation of the screen image. Very cool and beautifully made. When unpowered the rods sit flush with the surface of the box, making it easy to clean. The unit was completely designed by a blind person - including the software! Build by a sighted person using parts from an old SCSCI scanner and drives from a bunch of old, old, floppy disk drives (the really floppy sort). > > I am intrigued that they exist, but the RNIB (Royal National Institute for > Blind people) doesn't sell them and doesn't seem to know about them. > > I have googled, but am clearly asking the wrong question. > > Scratch that! I have tried again with Scott's search parameter and have > finally found them mentioned on the RNIB site. But they are, as you say, > prohibitively expensive. One is obviously not expected to want them, because > I had even searched the RNIB shop with "braille" and not found displays, only > inputs of various kinds. > > There must be some multi-millionaires who are blind!! > Lisi > > Dunno about blind multi-millionaires - but selling JAWS must have made more than a few millionaires. Cheers -- It's just a ride and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money, a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. ~ Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df4acb5.7040...@gmail.com
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription [OT]
On 12/06/11 20:46, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 16:42:12 Scott Ferguson wrote: >>> On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > [snipped] That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can use braille to read things on the Internet. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display >> >> >> Literally interpreting your question >> (I used to build machines for people with vision problems) > > Thanks, Scott. :-) > > I meant it literally. I had never come across or heard of a tactile computer > display. The nicest one I ever saw was an image display - a beautifully crafted Huon timber box with a tight grid of holes in the top. Each hole has a stainless steel rod sitting in it - each rod can be raised and lowered by a small drive - at rest they are flush with the top of the box, but can be raised about 1cm. A screen display is scanned and converted to a grayscale which is then analysed. The screen is "gridded" with blocks of pixels represented by individual rods - the darker the colour of the pixel block - the higher the rod is raised. The result is a 3D representation of the screen image. Very cool and beautifully made. When unpowered the rods sit flush with the surface of the box, making it easy to clean. The unit was completely designed by a blind person - including the software! Build by a sighted person using parts from an old SCSCI scanner and drives from a bunch of old, old, floppy disk drives (the really floppy sort). > > I am intrigued that they exist, but the RNIB (Royal National Institute for > Blind people) doesn't sell them and doesn't seem to know about them. > > I have googled, but am clearly asking the wrong question. > > Scratch that! I have tried again with Scott's search parameter and have > finally found them mentioned on the RNIB site. But they are, as you say, > prohibitively expensive. One is obviously not expected to want them, because > I had even searched the RNIB shop with "braille" and not found displays, only > inputs of various kinds. > > There must be some multi-millionaires who are blind!! > Lisi > > Dunno about blind multi-millionaires - but selling JAWS must have made more than a few millionaires. Cheers -- It's just a ride and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money, a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. ~ Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df4ac72.7040...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Sunday 12 June 2011 02:24:57 Scott Ferguson wrote: > Email the management. Just to let them know that you won't be buying > their product because you *can't* view the site, and that you'll be > emailing their shareholder to tell them you emailed the management - who > don't give a stuff, so now you're going to lobby everyone you know to > not buy their stuff - because you don't like being insulted or > marginalised, and you think your money is just as good as anyone else's. > And let 'em know you'll be spending up big with their opposition... > You can also point them at Debian.org as an example of how to do it right. > > If that doesn't work. Rent a wheelchair get some friends with big > cameras, buy a $1 share and shutdown their agm. It's easy if you've got > the time and know their pain points. ;-p :-)) Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106121150.06375.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 16:42:12 Scott Ferguson wrote: > > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: [snipped] > >> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how > >> you can use braille to read things on the Internet. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display > > > Literally interpreting your question > (I used to build machines for people with vision problems) Thanks, Scott. :-) I meant it literally. I had never come across or heard of a tactile computer display. I am intrigued that they exist, but the RNIB (Royal National Institute for Blind people) doesn't sell them and doesn't seem to know about them. I have googled, but am clearly asking the wrong question. Scratch that! I have tried again with Scott's search parameter and have finally found them mentioned on the RNIB site. But they are, as you say, prohibitively expensive. One is obviously not expected to want them, because I had even searched the RNIB shop with "braille" and not found displays, only inputs of various kinds. There must be some multi-millionaires who are blind!! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106121146.40508.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 11:24 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: > On 12/06/11 09:10, Lisi wrote: > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 17:54:35 Scott Ferguson wrote: > >> *cough* some of us do design websites the blind and visually handicapped > >> in mindit's just not noticed by those with normal vision. (sigh) ;-p > > > > Many don't bother. And just for the record I myself am partially sighted > > (our > > awful euphemism!). If someone can't be bothered to make the site visible, > > I > > can't be bothered to try and read it. > > > > As you rightly say, it is a shame to throw all those potential customers > > out > > with the rubbish. > > But I have got better things to do with my life than try > > desperately to make out what that mid-grey writing on a pale grey > > background > > is actually saying, or what that "pretty" graphic is successfully masking. > > Email the management. Just to let them know that you won't be buying > their product because you *can't* view the site, and that you'll be > emailing their shareholder to tell them you emailed the management - who > don't give a stuff, so now you're going to lobby everyone you know to > not buy their stuff - because you don't like being insulted or > marginalised, and you think your money is just as good as anyone else's. > And let 'em know you'll be spending up big with their opposition... > You can also point them at Debian.org as an example of how to do it right. > > If that doesn't work. Rent a wheelchair get some friends with big > cameras, buy a $1 share and shutdown their agm. It's easy if you've got > the time and know their pain points. ;-p > > > > Those like you who try to make things accessible are much appreciated - > > anyhow > > by me! > > > > Lisi After reading a long text on a private homepage, the last, very small words I read were "Click here to change the colours" ;). Sometimes there is such an option, but it's very good hidden. I'm not visible impaired, but who wishes to read "mid-grey writing on a pale grey background"? A lot of German companies don't care about minorities. They don't care about the broadcasting van. They wait until a report was send by a big television station, then thy claim everything just was a big misunderstanding and then 'they care' about minorities. This doesn't have a loss of image in Germany, hence nobody cares for minorities here, excepted guilty ones are needed to blame for something. German sheep dog shit on the sidewalk? No, it must be Romany people shit. I guess people all over the world are similar :(. If in your country the big cameras should help, wow! :) Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307870693.2416.29.camel@debian
Re: Subscription
On 12/06/11 09:10, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 17:54:35 Scott Ferguson wrote: >> *cough* some of us do design websites the blind and visually handicapped >> in mindit's just not noticed by those with normal vision. (sigh) ;-p > > Many don't bother. And just for the record I myself am partially sighted > (our > awful euphemism!). If someone can't be bothered to make the site visible, I > can't be bothered to try and read it. > > As you rightly say, it is a shame to throw all those potential customers out > with the rubbish. > But I have got better things to do with my life than try > desperately to make out what that mid-grey writing on a pale grey background > is actually saying, or what that "pretty" graphic is successfully masking. Email the management. Just to let them know that you won't be buying their product because you *can't* view the site, and that you'll be emailing their shareholder to tell them you emailed the management - who don't give a stuff, so now you're going to lobby everyone you know to not buy their stuff - because you don't like being insulted or marginalised, and you think your money is just as good as anyone else's. And let 'em know you'll be spending up big with their opposition... You can also point them at Debian.org as an example of how to do it right. If that doesn't work. Rent a wheelchair get some friends with big cameras, buy a $1 share and shutdown their agm. It's easy if you've got the time and know their pain points. ;-p > > Those like you who try to make things accessible are much appreciated - > anyhow > by me! > > Lisi > > > Cheers - I think of you the next time I need a biased opinion of site accessibility. -- The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: "Is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey, don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we kill those people. ~ Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df41569.6050...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 18:42:28 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Sometimes the ignorance is funny. In my hometown there was a pharmacy > where people only could go in by stairs. You only needed to have a > sporting injury and couldn't go in. At least the target group should be > satisfied. We used to have a car-park (thankfully it has been blown up) that had lifts for those who, for whatever reason - pushchairs, wheelchairs etc. - could not use the stairs. To get to the lifts you had to go either up or down some stairs! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106120015.30430.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 17:54:35 Scott Ferguson wrote: > *cough* some of us do design websites the blind and visually handicapped > in mindit's just not noticed by those with normal vision. (sigh) ;-p Many don't bother. And just for the record I myself am partially sighted (our awful euphemism!). If someone can't be bothered to make the site visible, I can't be bothered to try and read it. As you rightly say, it is a shame to throw all those potential customers out with the rubbish. But I have got better things to do with my life than try desperately to make out what that mid-grey writing on a pale grey background is actually saying, or what that "pretty" graphic is successfully masking. Those like you who try to make things accessible are much appreciated - anyhow by me! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106120011.00134.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
2011/6/11 Anthony Campbell : > On 11 Jun 2011, darkestkhan wrote: >> >> Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century >> - the revival of pronoun "one". >> For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite >> often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death >> (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of >> Internet). >> >> darkestkhan > > I think the avoidance of 'one' is mainly an American usage. In British > English it is used quite frequently, In fact, there is a long-standing > joke about the tendency of members of the Royal Family, especially > Prince Charles, to say 'one' instead of 'I'. > > > -- > Anthony Campbell - a...@acampbell.org.uk Anthony You might mean USian, it seems that in Canada is usually used. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktikkkta+cybgfxtt52pg8f_f2so...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 02:54 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: > On 11/06/11 23:16, Lisi wrote: > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 13:12:25 shawn wilson wrote: > >> On Jun 11, 2011 5:27 AM, "Lisi" wrote: > >>> On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > >>> > >>> I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > >>> > >>> My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all > >> > >> use > >> > >>> text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning > >>> still holds good. > >>> > >>> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you > >> > >> can > >> > >>> use braille to read things on the Internet. > >> > >> Yeah, there are braille tablets with mechanical 'dots'. However they cost > >> some real money. Also as one who constantly brushes dust, skin, and hair > >> off my macbook, I have no idea how you'd keep one of those clean. > > I've seen one made by Nokia that was wipeable - most of the haptic > devices are easy to clean. > NOTE: the haptic devices are very cool and allow you to feel images! > > > > > This: > > http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?category=transcription_software&productID=HT10601 > > was all I was able to find this side of the pond, and it claims only to be > > able to translate word processor documents, not Internet pages. Have you a > > reference? > > > > I have also found this: > > http://www.tabletedia.com/news/1113.html > > but that refers to the future. > > > >> This is about 80% OT but you asked. I'm also sure that Google can get you > >> more reliable info on this topic than I. Hopefully if you design software > >> or web pages, you'll consider how you'd use it without eyes. > > > > We are a long way from web sites designed with blind people in mind. Most > > are > > designed without consideration even for the partially sighted! > > *cough* some of us do design websites the blind and visually handicapped > in mindit's just not noticed by those with normal vision. (sigh) ;-p > All of my sites are built with the visually handicapped in mind - they > must be navigable and intelligible with Lynx, that overpriced p.i.t.a. > JAWS - and the decent screen readers, braille displays as well. Even > harder is allowing for colour vision impaired (but doable) and ensuring > those that are (merely) vision impaired can navigate and access the > information with screen magnifiers. That also means ensuring that it's > easy to "tab" though contents, skip menus - all that has to be possible > as both a full screen layout and on mobile devices. > Then we have make sure that all browsers can display it as both large > screen and mobile (ie6 included). Technically I'm bad because I don't > use image tags - my sightless site testers had the same complaint Ralf > had about un-necessary words - so I try and just ensure the name is > instructive eg. cow_picture.png except in the rare circumstance that a > site requires a detailed description of a graphic for the > non-graphically orientated. > With many government clients these things are mandated in the contract - > with corporate clients it's just sensible. Despite what many of the web > "designeers" I hear from will tell you - failing to support the visually > handicapped or those using IE6 means locking can mean losing business. > I don't usually plug my business - and I'm certainly not a rarity > amongst designers - I know many who do a much better job than I. > Feel free to ask for a link. Sometimes the ignorance is funny. In my hometown there was a pharmacy where people only could go in by stairs. You only needed to have a sporting injury and couldn't go in. At least the target group should be satisfied. "With many government clients these things are mandated in the contract" this should be taken for granted. Cheers! Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307814148.2378.255.camel@debian
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
Excerpts from Lisi's message of 2011-06-11 12:43:23 +0200: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, > > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > > > > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > > > I've got good eyes and don't have braille ;). But I'm a dyslexic. > > You misunderstood my question. "You" in English, in addition to being the > second person plural and singular pronoun, is also the third person singular > indefinate pronoun equivalent to the French "on". You (second person > singular) said "I guess using braille, people have to read much more > irrelevant stuff" and I asked how on earth these putative people, using > braille to read things on the Internet, did so. I cannot see how anyone uses > braille on the Internet, so I asked you (second person singular) how such a > person would do so. Reading web pages with a braille display is a matter of using a text browser, there are a number of those available on Linux. Regards, Philipp -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307813781-sup-3856@eris
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 17:33 +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote: > On 11 Jun 2011, darkestkhan wrote: > > > > Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century > > - the revival of pronoun "one". > > For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite > > often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death > > (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of > > Internet). > > > > darkestkhan > > I think the avoidance of 'one' is mainly an American usage. In British > English it is used quite frequently, In fact, there is a long-standing > joke about the tendency of members of the Royal Family, especially > Prince Charles, to say 'one' instead of 'I'. In my case, my English simply is broken. 'One' was for 'somebody' not for 'I'. Btw. I can't believe that it's possible to translate Hegel to English, since it's disputed what his message is. His individual German already needs translation into regular German. So somebody first has to be sure what Hegel wants to say, before he will be able to translate him. Very strange, resp. dubious, there are translations of Hegel: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hegel/ http://www.hegel.org/index.html Anyway, German is a very strange language and as a German native speaker with a large vocabulary and no gift for languages, my translations are sometimes similar to http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ "Don't Panic" (The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307812243.2378.243.camel@debian
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Sb, 11 iun 11, 11:13:50, darkestkhan wrote: > > Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century > - the revival of pronoun "one". > For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite > often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death > (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of > Internet). +1 Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Subscription
On 11/06/11 23:16, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 13:12:25 shawn wilson wrote: >> On Jun 11, 2011 5:27 AM, "Lisi" wrote: >>> On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. >>> >>> I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! >>> >>> My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all >> >> use >> >>> text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning >>> still holds good. >>> >>> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you >> >> can >> >>> use braille to read things on the Internet. >> >> Yeah, there are braille tablets with mechanical 'dots'. However they cost >> some real money. Also as one who constantly brushes dust, skin, and hair >> off my macbook, I have no idea how you'd keep one of those clean. I've seen one made by Nokia that was wipeable - most of the haptic devices are easy to clean. NOTE: the haptic devices are very cool and allow you to feel images! > > This: > http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?category=transcription_software&productID=HT10601 > was all I was able to find this side of the pond, and it claims only to be > able to translate word processor documents, not Internet pages. Have you a > reference? > > I have also found this: > http://www.tabletedia.com/news/1113.html > but that refers to the future. > >> This is about 80% OT but you asked. I'm also sure that Google can get you >> more reliable info on this topic than I. Hopefully if you design software >> or web pages, you'll consider how you'd use it without eyes. > > We are a long way from web sites designed with blind people in mind. Most > are > designed without consideration even for the partially sighted! *cough* some of us do design websites the blind and visually handicapped in mindit's just not noticed by those with normal vision. (sigh) ;-p All of my sites are built with the visually handicapped in mind - they must be navigable and intelligible with Lynx, that overpriced p.i.t.a. JAWS - and the decent screen readers, braille displays as well. Even harder is allowing for colour vision impaired (but doable) and ensuring those that are (merely) vision impaired can navigate and access the information with screen magnifiers. That also means ensuring that it's easy to "tab" though contents, skip menus - all that has to be possible as both a full screen layout and on mobile devices. Then we have make sure that all browsers can display it as both large screen and mobile (ie6 included). Technically I'm bad because I don't use image tags - my sightless site testers had the same complaint Ralf had about un-necessary words - so I try and just ensure the name is instructive eg. cow_picture.png except in the rare circumstance that a site requires a detailed description of a graphic for the non-graphically orientated. With many government clients these things are mandated in the contract - with corporate clients it's just sensible. Despite what many of the web "designeers" I hear from will tell you - failing to support the visually handicapped or those using IE6 means locking can mean losing business. I don't usually plug my business - and I'm certainly not a rarity amongst designers - I know many who do a much better job than I. Feel free to ask for a link. > > Lisi > > >From my point of view debian.org is very well designed. Kudo to the designer/s. Cheers -- Tuttle? His name's Buttle. There must be some mistake. Mistake? [Chuckles] We don't make mistakes. [Crash!] Bloody typical. They've gone back to metric without telling us. Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df39dcb.4050...@gmail.com
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Sun, 2011-06-12 at 01:42 +1000, Scott Ferguson wrote: > On 11/06/11 20:07, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > >> On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >>> I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > >>> guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > >> > >> I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > > > > > > > >> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you > >> can > >> use braille to read things on the Internet. > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display The issue with braille seems to be, that the browser needs to be text based, some minutes ago a blind man at Linux audio users list mentioned, that he can't handle flash with his text based browsers, so I guess he's using brltty daemon. This flash thingy was only for playing a song. IMO all those java and flash stuff should be baned, if not really needed. I like to watch youtube, a blind person surely won't watch videos, so it's okay to use more than just HTML for this usage, but apart from that nobody really needs all that folderol. Does anybody watch intro videos on homepages? I always hope that the skip button does his job. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307811201.2378.230.camel@debian
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On 11 Jun 2011, darkestkhan wrote: > > Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century > - the revival of pronoun "one". > For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite > often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death > (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of > Internet). > > darkestkhan I think the avoidance of 'one' is mainly an American usage. In British English it is used quite frequently, In fact, there is a long-standing joke about the tendency of members of the Royal Family, especially Prince Charles, to say 'one' instead of 'I'. -- Anthony Campbell - a...@acampbell.org.uk Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk - sample my ebooks at http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/acampbell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110611163353.ga2...@acampbell.org.uk
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On 11/06/11 20:07, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: >> On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I >>> guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. >> >> I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > >> That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you >> can >> use braille to read things on the Internet. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refreshable_Braille_display Literally interpreting your question (I used to build machines for people with vision problems) Cheers -- Tuttle? His name's Buttle. There must be some mistake. Mistake? [Chuckles] We don't make mistakes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4df38cd4.4070...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:22 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT), Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 23:13 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: > >> On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:50:28 -0400 (EDT), "Morning Star" wrote: > >>> > >>> i want to join this mailing lists because i have a question about debian. > >> > >> See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ for instructions on how to > >> subscribe. > > > > It's bad that the Linux community tends to educate people with tons of > > redundant words, when they don't have a choice not to read it. > > > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ IMO would be the better link and if > > somebody already has subscribed and a subscription mail came through the > > list, this isn't fatal. > > > > Dyslexia, braille and other reasons should be good enough to reduce the > > amount of words for basic information. > > > > A thread with redundant words is ok, because everybody is free not to > > read it. > > > > No rant ;), just 2 cents, since I'm a dyslexic and wonder about this > > Linux own issue. E.g. read a book to set up your boot loaders menu and > > now read a book about how to subscribe to a Debian mailing list. > > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > > guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > I was answering the question he asked, not the question he didn't ask. > Is it possible to use the list without subscribing? Yes, it is. > But that's not what he asked. He specifically said he wanted to > "join the list". And I gave him a link to the instructions. > > (OK, strictly speaking it was a statement, not a question. The question > was implied.) :) IMO Subscribe / Unsubscribe Your email address: doesn't need tons of text how to use it ;), so at least I would recommend this link http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ I guess with some hours trail and error it should be possible to subscribe, even by using this complicated thingy ;). 2 Cents, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307803601.2378.179.camel@debian
Re: Subscription
On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 14:16 +0100, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 13:12:25 shawn wilson wrote: > > On Jun 11, 2011 5:27 AM, "Lisi" wrote: > > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, > > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > > > > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > > > > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all > > > > use > > > > > text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning > > > still holds good. > > > > > > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you > > > > can > > > > > use braille to read things on the Internet. > > > > Yeah, there are braille tablets with mechanical 'dots'. However they cost > > some real money. Also as one who constantly brushes dust, skin, and hair > > off my macbook, I have no idea how you'd keep one of those clean. > > This: > http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?category=transcription_software&productID=HT10601 > was all I was able to find this side of the pond, and it claims only to be > able to translate word processor documents, not Internet pages. Have you a > reference? There's a daemon for Linux doing this. You can use braille even with, at least older Debian installers. Here it is brltty http://mielke.cc/brltty/ that's why I was thinking of w3m. Now I understand what you was asking for :). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307803028.2378.174.camel@debian
Re: Subscription
On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 05:05:04 -0400 (EDT), Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 23:13 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: >> On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:50:28 -0400 (EDT), "Morning Star" wrote: >>> >>> i want to join this mailing lists because i have a question about debian. >> >> See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ for instructions on how to subscribe. > > It's bad that the Linux community tends to educate people with tons of > redundant words, when they don't have a choice not to read it. > > http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ IMO would be the better link and if > somebody already has subscribed and a subscription mail came through the > list, this isn't fatal. > > Dyslexia, braille and other reasons should be good enough to reduce the > amount of words for basic information. > > A thread with redundant words is ok, because everybody is free not to > read it. > > No rant ;), just 2 cents, since I'm a dyslexic and wonder about this > Linux own issue. E.g. read a book to set up your boot loaders menu and > now read a book about how to subscribe to a Debian mailing list. > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. I was answering the question he asked, not the question he didn't ask. Is it possible to use the list without subscribing? Yes, it is. But that's not what he asked. He specifically said he wanted to "join the list". And I gave him a link to the instructions. (OK, strictly speaking it was a statement, not a question. The question was implied.) -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1498338732.116594.1307802167679.javamail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com
Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 12:30:03 Steven wrote: > I would genuinely like to know how you can > > > use braille to read things on the Internet. > > They can use special hardware for that, it 'translates' the written text > to a line of braille on a physical device. Googling "braille hardware > gave me this link on top: > http://www.indiana.edu/~iuadapts/technology/hardware/braille/index.html Thanks - I had seen Braille input devices and Braille production devices, but never Braille output devices. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106111430.16515.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 13:12:25 shawn wilson wrote: > On Jun 11, 2011 5:27 AM, "Lisi" wrote: > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all > > use > > > text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning > > still holds good. > > > > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you > > can > > > use braille to read things on the Internet. > > Yeah, there are braille tablets with mechanical 'dots'. However they cost > some real money. Also as one who constantly brushes dust, skin, and hair > off my macbook, I have no idea how you'd keep one of those clean. This: http://www.rnib.org.uk/shop/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?category=transcription_software&productID=HT10601 was all I was able to find this side of the pond, and it claims only to be able to translate word processor documents, not Internet pages. Have you a reference? I have also found this: http://www.tabletedia.com/news/1113.html but that refers to the future. > This is about 80% OT but you asked. I'm also sure that Google can get you > more reliable info on this topic than I. Hopefully if you design software > or web pages, you'll consider how you'd use it without eyes. We are a long way from web sites designed with blind people in mind. Most are designed without consideration even for the partially sighted! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106111416.55640.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Jun 11, 2011 5:27 AM, "Lisi" wrote: > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > > guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all use > text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning still > holds good. > > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can > use braille to read things on the Internet. > Yeah, there are braille tablets with mechanical 'dots'. However they cost some real money. Also as one who constantly brushes dust, skin, and hair off my macbook, I have no idea how you'd keep one of those clean. So, people I've seen prefer speech. This too wasn't a cheap solution as windows software was $1k+ and a synthesizer was $200+. However, now most of the work is strictly software and there are free software solutions; emacs speak comes to mind (there's at least one other that I don't recall). There used to be issues with speech software on X. There's also an issue if a blind person needs access to the BIOS (though select computers used to output info through the serial port, and servers have ipmi). There also used to be an issue with remote apps on the windows side - I know Microsoft has pretty much solved this on their end but I don't know about citrix. Now, whatever the price of this adaptive software, most (all?) states in the US have programs that pay for all necessary adaptive software / hardware and training. Despite the large amount of money spent here, there are serious issues with people who don't know hoe to write web pages. The other big issue is new cell phones that have few physical buttons (I have been told that the iPhone is better on this front than Android). This is about 80% OT but you asked. I'm also sure that Google can get you more reliable info on this topic than I. Hopefully if you design software or web pages, you'll consider how you'd use it without eyes.
Re: Subscription
On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > > guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all use > text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning still > holds good. > > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can > use braille to read things on the Internet. They can use special hardware for that, it 'translates' the written text to a line of braille on a physical device. Googling "braille hardware gave me this link on top: http://www.indiana.edu/~iuadapts/technology/hardware/braille/index.html I have no experience whatsoever with any kind of these devices and Linux, wearing a pair of glasses is enough for me to clearly read the screen. I am no expert by any means. > > Lisi > > Kind regards, Steven signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 11:43 +0100, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, > > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > > > > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > > > I've got good eyes and don't have braille ;). But I'm a dyslexic. > > You misunderstood my question. "You" in English, in addition to being the > second person plural and singular pronoun, is also the third person singular > indefinate pronoun equivalent to the French "on". You (second person > singular) said "I guess using braille, people have to read much more > irrelevant stuff" and I asked how on earth these putative people, using > braille to read things on the Internet, did so. I cannot see how anyone uses > braille on the Internet, so I asked you (second person singular) how such a > person would do so. Ok, I guess I understand now. I don't know, but perhaps it's possible by using w3m. There are some sites made by blind people and those sides use a different style, compared to usual web pages. Please run $ w3m http://www.webbie.org.uk/webbie.htm This IMO is even more pleasant for people who are able to see ;). No folderol. Btw. I didn't read it. > > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all > > > use text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning > > > still holds good. > > > > Try Orca or so, you can't use it for all applications. Fortunately blind > > people can use Linux easier than other OS, because there's software with > > good config files, so they don't need the GUI :). > > Very sadly, this is not true. There is marvellous text to speech software > available, very expensively, for Windows. I have looked into Linux and have > not so far found anything to touch it. Mind you, testing is as you (second > person singular) say difficult, because I am not good at managing without > some sort of visual hint. I like pictures very much! I guess even for blind people a relief will give more information than words sometimes can do. Regarding to accessibility I might be thinking of audio only. I guess on Windows and Mac it's harder for blind musicians, but I might be mistaken. FWIW even seeing and sane artists prefer engineers to handle the computer equipment. Herbie Hancock On Sesame Street http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5C4VF7xdcc Computers are bad designed for intuitive people. This 68000 CPU computer based synth is much better designed, regarding to the needs of musicians than Windows, Mac and Linux desktops are. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307790835.2378.153.camel@debian
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
2011/6/11 Lisi : > On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > [snip] >> > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you >> > can use braille to read things on the Internet. >> >> A misunderstanding, perhaps regarding to my broken English. > > No, I fully understood you (second person singular). You (second person > singular) said that you (second person singular) are dyslexic. But _you_ > (second person singular) misunderstood _me_. It is difficult for me to know > what I should avoid on an international list, and "one" as a pronoun > effectively died in the mid twentieth century, so complicated periphrasis can > be avoided only by using the pronoun "you" in the third person instead of > using "one", which it has replaced in the language. > > And as you (second person singular) see here, attempts to clarify or rephrase > are necessarily very clumsy. > > Lisi > Maybe it is time for big revolution in English language of XXI century - the revival of pronoun "one". For one thing, I'm still encountering pronoun "one", and it is quite often, so I wouldn't be so hasty to this judgment of effective death (though it may be caused by wandering in strange dark corners of Internet). darkestkhan -- Feel free to CC me. jid: darkestk...@gmail.com May The Source be with You. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktiktgh0c46r6e4lz_vhrx2sfxn1...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 11:07:36 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, > > > I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! > > I've got good eyes and don't have braille ;). But I'm a dyslexic. You misunderstood my question. "You" in English, in addition to being the second person plural and singular pronoun, is also the third person singular indefinate pronoun equivalent to the French "on". You (second person singular) said "I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff" and I asked how on earth these putative people, using braille to read things on the Internet, did so. I cannot see how anyone uses braille on the Internet, so I asked you (second person singular) how such a person would do so. > > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all > > use text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning > > still holds good. > > Try Orca or so, you can't use it for all applications. Fortunately blind > people can use Linux easier than other OS, because there's software with > good config files, so they don't need the GUI :). Very sadly, this is not true. There is marvellous text to speech software available, very expensively, for Windows. I have looked into Linux and have not so far found anything to touch it. Mind you, testing is as you (second person singular) say difficult, because I am not good at managing without some sort of visual hint. > On Linux audio users there are two blind users and they use Hydrogen by > setting up this drum machine by it's config file. The GUI can't be used > with Orca speech software. [snip] > > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you > > can use braille to read things on the Internet. > > A misunderstanding, perhaps regarding to my broken English. No, I fully understood you (second person singular). You (second person singular) said that you (second person singular) are dyslexic. But _you_ (second person singular) misunderstood _me_. It is difficult for me to know what I should avoid on an international list, and "one" as a pronoun effectively died in the mid twentieth century, so complicated periphrasis can be avoided only by using the pronoun "you" in the third person instead of using "one", which it has replaced in the language. And as you (second person singular) see here, attempts to clarify or rephrase are necessarily very clumsy. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110643.23612.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Linux for humans that differ to averaged people was - Re: Subscription
On Sat, 2011-06-11 at 10:27 +0100, Lisi wrote: > On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > > guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. > > I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! I've got good eyes and don't have braille ;). But I'm a dyslexic. > My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all use > text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning still > holds good. Try Orca or so, you can't use it for all applications. Fortunately blind people can use Linux easier than other OS, because there's software with good config files, so they don't need the GUI :). On Linux audio users there are two blind users and they use Hydrogen by setting up this drum machine by it's config file. The GUI can't be used with Orca speech software. I tried Orca with closed eyes, horrible. You and I, we have good luck that we are able to see. I guess impaired people very often need help when using Linux installers. I'm pissed off that the world is made for averaged people only ;), even that I'm more or less averaged myself, so there aren't that much issues for me, excepted of empathy for people who are different. For Linux there is software for children, that shows, that it's possible to give access to the computer for illiterates or mentally retarded, but there is no such software for adults like e.g. http://tuxpaint.org/ I guess illiterates or mentally retarded adults would prefer to use Gimp instead of tuxpaint ;). > That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can > use braille to read things on the Internet. A misunderstanding, perhaps regarding to my broken English. My eyes just need + 0.5 or + 0.75 glasses (= + 1.0 for the glasses from the supermarket), so I do have very good eyes. I'm not blind. My issues regarding to reading are caused by dyslexia. So, I'm using a monitor ;). Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307786856.2378.101.camel@debian
Re: Subscription
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:50:28 -0400, Morning Star wrote: > i want to join this mailing lists because i have a question about > debian. This is an open list, you can post at any time, no subscription needed. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2011.06.11.09.54...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Saturday 11 June 2011 10:05:04 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I > guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. I'm fascinated. How do you read braille from a monitor??! My blind friends (even one who can read Braille at a phenomenal rate) all use text to speech software. Though the point about difficulty scanning still holds good. That is not sarcasm incidentally. I would genuinely like to know how you can use braille to read things on the Internet. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201106111027.32725.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Subscription
On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 23:13 -0400, Stephen Powell wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:50:28 -0400 (EDT), "Morning Star" wrote: > > > > i want to join this mailing lists because i have a question about debian. > > See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ for instructions on how to subscribe. It's bad that the Linux community tends to educate people with tons of redundant words, when they don't have a choice not to read it. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ IMO would be the better link and if somebody already has subscribed and a subscription mail came through the list, this isn't fatal. Dyslexia, braille and other reasons should be good enough to reduce the amount of words for basic information. A thread with redundant words is ok, because everybody is free not to read it. No rant ;), just 2 cents, since I'm a dyslexic and wonder about this Linux own issue. E.g. read a book to set up your boot loaders menu and now read a book about how to subscribe to a Debian mailing list. I've good luck, because I can skip a lot when watching at the monitor, I guess using braille, people have to read much more irrelevant stuff. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1307783104.2378.70.camel@debian
Re: Subscription
On 11 June 2011 13:13, Stephen Powell wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:50:28 -0400 (EDT), "Morning Star" wrote: > > > > i want to join this mailing lists because i have a question about debian. > > See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ for instructions on how to > subscribe. > Yes, join the list if you have a substantial number of questions to ask, or you intend running Debian, or for any other instance of longer term use. But for one question, simply ask. This is why it's an open list. If nobody replies directly, the answer will be in the archive which is also readily publicly available. Regards, Weaver. -- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Lucius Annæus Seneca. Terrorism, the new religion.
Re: Subscription
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:50:28 -0400 (EDT), "Morning Star" wrote: > > i want to join this mailing lists because i have a question about debian. See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ for instructions on how to subscribe. -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/405175363.112086.1307762027844.javamail.r...@md01.wow.synacor.com
Re: subscription
Am 2008-04-24 18:17:58, schrieb steve: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > | Please remove this e-mail address and unsubscribe me from future mailings. > > huh? why are you emailing me?? You too? I have goten this message too. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: subscription
On Thursday 24 April 2008 20:10, Rafael Fontenelle wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] also asked me to unsubscribe him from the list. When I > replied to him informing that I was not the administrator, I received an > email from his antispam or something like that asking me to click in a link > to confirm that I'm not a robot. Of course I ignored this confirmation > email. > > For me is pretty obvious that or he is fooling around with this list or he > is not exactly human being. I also got an unsubscribe request from the "rsiegel" address, two days ago (Tuesday the 22nd). I replied off-list with an explanation of how to unsubscribe, echoing the unsubscribe instructions in the body of the message, on the assumption that his mailer was cutting them off. > Admin, could you ban him? Seconded, if the behavior persists. Possibly the first line of action is to manually unsubscribe him, and not resort to banning until/unless he comes back and misbehaves again. -- A. -- Andrew Reid / [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: subscription
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/24/08 19:09, steve wrote: [snip] > > > well..., hopefully.. maybe he read the footer lines this > time. do some mail clients maybe omit footer lines??? He's running Evolution, and it used to (does still?) do that, IIRC on emails with PGP signatures. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA We want... a Shrubbery!! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIESK5S9HxQb37XmcRAmU/AKChIjsOd4DGXEWop5GV5/pplRdMtQCgjosq MqDbqE+aBxMB44w+BujCoo0= =ljEr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: subscription
[EMAIL PROTECTED] also asked me to unsubscribe him from the list. When I replied to him informing that I was not the administrator, I received an email from his antispam or something like that asking me to click in a link to confirm that I'm not a robot. Of course I ignored this confirmation email. For me is pretty obvious that or he is fooling around with this list or he is not exactly human being. Admin, could you ban him? 2008/4/24, Damon L. Chesser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > steve wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> | Please remove this e-mail address and unsubscribe me from future >> mailings. >> >> huh? why are you emailing me?? >> >> Im just a subscriber, I cant remove people. >> >> Stay on the list please. >> >> and follow the instructions at the bottom of the emails you receive from >> the list to unsubscribe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - -- >> Steve Reilly >> >> http://reillyblog.com >> >> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iD8DBQFIEQcV1L48K811Km0RArxYAJ9jFbfcyBcBXATMYAzn0vULiM9bOwCcDiAz >> 02+6orgSJRuQDgdsqDBYKCs= >> =7UuZ >> -END PGP SIGNATURE- >> >> >> Steve, > > yesterday rsiegel emailed me also with the same request. I emailed him > back, with the line you referred to quoted and asked him to just follow > those instructions. > > rsiegel, READ THIS: > > *-- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a > subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *Sigh. > > > -- > Damon L. Chesser > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a > subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: subscription
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Damon L. Chesser wrote: | Steve, | yesterday rsiegel emailed me also with the same request. I emailed him | back, with the line you referred to quoted and asked him to just follow | those instructions. | rsiegel, READ THIS: | *-- | To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a | subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] | *Sigh. well..., hopefully.. maybe he read the footer lines this time. do some mail clients maybe omit footer lines??? - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIESEq1L48K811Km0RAtO2AKDD2mK/3NjFffgwHeRAwfBJ/tkPfACg2+fA D4Wt3tR5U3f5UliuISOhpMM= =U8Ii -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: subscription
steve wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Please remove this e-mail address and unsubscribe me from future mailings. huh? why are you emailing me?? Im just a subscriber, I cant remove people. Stay on the list please. and follow the instructions at the bottom of the emails you receive from the list to unsubscribe - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEQcV1L48K811Km0RArxYAJ9jFbfcyBcBXATMYAzn0vULiM9bOwCcDiAz 02+6orgSJRuQDgdsqDBYKCs= =7UuZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Steve, yesterday rsiegel emailed me also with the same request. I emailed him back, with the line you referred to quoted and asked him to just follow those instructions. rsiegel, READ THIS: *-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sigh. -- Damon L. Chesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: subscription
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Please remove this e-mail address and unsubscribe me from future mailings. huh? why are you emailing me?? Im just a subscriber, I cant remove people. Stay on the list please. and follow the instructions at the bottom of the emails you receive from the list to unsubscribe - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEQcV1L48K811Km0RArxYAJ9jFbfcyBcBXATMYAzn0vULiM9bOwCcDiAz 02+6orgSJRuQDgdsqDBYKCs= =7UuZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: subscription
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Barbeau wrote: | How do I unsubscribe? | | lol. is this a joke? look at the last line of every email you get from the list therein lies your answer. - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEQQ01L48K811Km0RAmcqAJkB242khAJfQdzkf14G+yEWIAKTJwCg1DRq pLCdQaVM+VDsrtC+1gQTVV4= =yzCr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subscription
Gene Heskett wrote: On Wednesday 21 December 2005 13:00, Solis, Mirna wrote: Good morning. At risk of being flamed for top posting, I have to ask if you really, truely, intended to send this to the debian-user mailing list. It really, truely has nothing to do with your problem that I can conjure up. I've been biting my tongue on this one for days. heh heh heh. and now she's bumping it... A Back in october, I sent you a subscription requisition under Saul Orbezo's name attaching the credit card information for the payment, but I did not receive the invoice for this subscription. Would you, please, send it to me? Please send it to the following address: Andrew Corporation 5801 George McVay drive McAllen, Tx. 78503. Attn. Mirna Solis. Ph. #: 011528999091630 Fax #. 011528999091655 Please confirm. Thanks in advance. Mirna Solis. - --- This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of this email is prohibited. - --- [mf2] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Subscription
Any update? From: Solis, Mirna Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:01 PM To: 'debian-user@lists.debian.org' Subject: Subscription Importance: High Good morning. Back in october, I sent you a subscription requisition under Saul Orbezo’s name attaching the credit card information for the payment, but I did not receive the invoice for this subscription. Would you, please, send it to me? Please send it to the following address: Andrew Corporation 5801 George McVay drive McAllen, Tx. 78503. Attn. Mirna Solis. Ph. #: 011528999091630 Fax #. 011528999091655 Please confirm. Thanks in advance. Mirna Solis. This message is for the designated recipient only and maycontain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the senderimmediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use ofthis email is prohibited.[mf2]
Re: Subscription
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 13:00, Solis, Mirna wrote: >Good morning. > At risk of being flamed for top posting, I have to ask if you really, truely, intended to send this to the debian-user mailing list. It really, truely has nothing to do with your problem that I can conjure up. > >Back in october, I sent you a subscription requisition under Saul >Orbezo's name attaching the credit card information for the payment, > but I did not receive the invoice for this subscription. Would you, > please, send it to me? > > > >Please send it to the following address: > > > >Andrew Corporation > >5801 George McVay drive > >McAllen, Tx. 78503. > >Attn. Mirna Solis. > > > >Ph. #: 011528999091630 > >Fax #. 011528999091655 > > > >Please confirm. > > > >Thanks in advance. > > > >Mirna Solis. > > > >- >--- This message is for the designated > recipient only and may >contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. >If you have received it in error, please notify the sender >immediately and delete the original. Any unauthorized use of >this email is prohibited. >- >--- [mf2] -- Cheers, Gene People having trouble with vz bouncing email to me should add the word 'online' between the 'verizon', and the dot which bypasses vz's stupid bounce rules. I do use spamassassin too. :-) Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subscription renewal
Bob Proulx wrote: > Samuel B Preston wrote: >>I am trying to renew my subscription. Is this the place? How / why did the >>renewal process go wrong? > You don't need to renew a scription to the debian-user mailing list. > When subscribed you remain subscribed until you unsubscribe from it. > See the mailing list documentation for more information. Why do I get the impression that Samuel is worried over a piece of spam that was passed through Murphy but a good lot of us rejected on our side? Samuel, could you cite the specific message whence your concerns spawn? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Subscription renewal
Samuel B Preston wrote: > I am trying to renew my subscription. Is this the place? How / why did the > renewal process go wrong? You don't need to renew a scription to the debian-user mailing list. When subscribed you remain subscribed until you unsubscribe from it. See the mailing list documentation for more information. http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subscription renewal
Samuel B Preston wrote: > I am trying to renew my subscription. Is this the place? How / why did > the renewal process go wrong? > > Subscription to what? This is a public mailing list. > > Sam Preston > > +1 973 986 2909 (mobile) > > +1 973 635 5113 (home) > > > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subscription attempt
On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 05:15:14PM +0300, Ogulla, Alphonse wrote: > Subscribed! > Any ideas on how to take out the disclaimer attached to all outgoing mail by > an exchange creature? > Two dashes on the last line had a zero effect. The proper signature seperator is two dashes and a space, then a new line. Look at mine below. -- Rob Weir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Do I look like I want a CC? Words of the day: credit card Majic AVN Lon Horiuchi South Africa Sears Tower pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Subscription attempt
On Thursday 14 August 2003 14:51, Ogulla, Alphonse wrote: > subscribe Wrong way to subscribe, see http://lists.debian.org/ > DISCLAIMER: This e-mail, any attachment and response string are > confidential and may be legally privileged. Any opinions expressed in this > mail do not necesarily reflect the opinions of Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya > Limited. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email > the sender and delete this message and any attachment immediately. Please > do not copy or forward this message or attachment. Internet communications > are not secure and therefore Shell does not accept legal responsibility for > the contents of this message as it has been transmitted over a public > network. If you suspect the message may have been intercepted or amended, > please call the sender. Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya Limited believes that > this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses. However, it is the > responsibility of the recipient to ensure it is virus free and Kenya Shell > Limited/BP Kenya Limited will not accept any responsibility for any loss or > damage that may arise from the use of this e-mail or its contents.Thank > you. For further information about Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya Limited, > please see our website at http://www.shell.com/ke-en And I think this steaming pile gets the first place trophy so far. (And the postmaster gets a mail... it's not even properly marked as signature.) -- Got Backup? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subscription attempt
--huq684BweRXVnRxX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 05:15:14PM +0300, Ogulla, Alphonse wrote: > Subscribed! > Any ideas on how to take out the disclaimer attached to all outgoing mail by > an exchange creature? > Two dashes on the last line had a zero effect. I think the easiest way would be not to use the exchange creature in the first place. I myself would ssh to somewhere else and send mail from there. Or I would access some sort of webmail like squirrelmail. Bijan --huq684BweRXVnRxX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/O587Uof+95vTyAwRAr08AJ0StCKWFFOeMCe9+ot4cvmyBmmKFwCbB8Cs U7TVjGOr/iorwYQFqGW9ypg= =GZBE -END PGP SIGNATURE- --huq684BweRXVnRxX-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Subscription attempt
Subscribed! Any ideas on how to take out the disclaimer attached to all outgoing mail by an exchange creature? Two dashes on the last line had a zero effect. Alphonse -- DISCLAIMER: This e-mail, any attachment and response string are confidential and may be legally privileged. Any opinions expressed in this mail do not necesarily reflect the opinions of Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya Limited. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete this message and any attachment immediately. Please do not copy or forward this message or attachment. Internet communications are not secure and therefore Shell does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect the message may have been intercepted or amended, please call the sender. Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya Limited believes that this e-mail and any attachments are free of viruses. However, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure it is virus free and Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya Limited will not accept any responsibility for any loss or damage that may arise from the use of this e-mail or its contents.Thank you. For further information about Kenya Shell Limited/BP Kenya Limited, please see our website at http://www.shell.com/ke-en -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Subscription List
You need to send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] e.g. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please see instructions at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe On Thu, Jun 29, 2000 at 04:47:03PM -0400, Andy & Page Hess wrote: > Please put me on your subscription list. I am new to Linux and I am Jeff
Re: subscription problem
Richard G. Roberto wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Alain Toussaint wrote: > > > i have originally subscribed to the digest list and now,i'm receiving the > > non-digest version,could someone point me how to correct that ?? > > > > Me too. Me three. -- SEGV NT 6 is out and its name is Linux: http://www.cgocable.net/~mlepage/ http://www.debian.org/ -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: subscription problem
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Alain Toussaint wrote: > i have originally subscribed to the digest list and now,i'm receiving the > non-digest version,could someone point me how to correct that ?? > Me too. -- "Until we extend the circle of our compassion to all living things, we will not ourselves find peace" -Albert Schweitzer Richard G. Roberto -- E-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST. Trouble? E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
