Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
Ron Johnson writes: > On 02/28/2011 01:36 AM, Miles Bader wrote: >> Ron Johnson writes: I do program development, compiles, etc. and have to say that for me 64-bit is definitely faster, to wit: >>> >>> Have you tried Tiny CC? When it's sufficient for the task, it's compile >>> times are pretty fast. >>> >>> http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=staalmannen-18107-15267-29041 >> >> Note that the guy who did that didn't use _any_ optimization flags -- >> not even -O -- so the result doesn't have much connection with reality >> (without -O, many compilers won't even _try_ to produce good code). >> >> Unfortunately that sort of idiocy seems all too typical for benchmarking >> at Phoronix... > > A fast compiler is *always* useful during development. A fast compiler is sometimes useful, but the problem is that in this case the guy misinterpreted the results, and came to the conclusion that tcc was also a _better_ compiler -- which it most certainly isn't -- and then started telling everybody that... -Miles -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come. --Nietzsche -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/buofwr71lo3@dhlpc061.dev.necel.com
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 00:21, Ron Johnson wrote: > What do you do with your PC? > > If you're "just a desktop user", then I recommend sticking with 32-bits (and > a PAE kernel if you have gt 4GB RAM). > I agree. One of the biggest problems with 64 bit desktop systems is Flash: the Adobe implementation is still in alpha (and feels like it), and the Gnash implementation is even further behind. Let's clarify the Adobe Flash situation: on _some_ hardware, users have no problems with 64 bit Flash. On others, it is a mess. I suppose that Adobe is slowly adding hardware support and that is why it is still an alpha. Try it and see how _your_ hardware performs. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTimeCjT=+b5ndwenhyhon7mvt9yp5k032ujvj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On 02/28/2011 01:36 AM, Miles Bader wrote: Ron Johnson writes: I do program development, compiles, etc. and have to say that for me 64-bit is definitely faster, to wit: Have you tried Tiny CC? When it's sufficient for the task, it's compile times are pretty fast. http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=staalmannen-18107-15267-29041 Note that the guy who did that didn't use _any_ optimization flags -- not even -O -- so the result doesn't have much connection with reality (without -O, many compilers won't even _try_ to produce good code). Unfortunately that sort of idiocy seems all too typical for benchmarking at Phoronix... A fast compiler is *always* useful during development. -- I prefer banana-flavored energy bars made from tofu. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d6bcaad.4020...@cox.net
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
Ron Johnson writes: >> I do program development, compiles, etc. and have to say that for me >> 64-bit is definitely faster, to wit: > > Have you tried Tiny CC? When it's sufficient for the task, it's compile > times are pretty fast. > > http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=staalmannen-18107-15267-29041 Note that the guy who did that didn't use _any_ optimization flags -- not even -O -- so the result doesn't have much connection with reality (without -O, many compilers won't even _try_ to produce good code). Unfortunately that sort of idiocy seems all too typical for benchmarking at Phoronix... -Miles -- Fast, small, soon; pick any 2. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/buovd04391m@dhlpc061.dev.necel.com
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/24/2011 02:01 PM, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: [snip] I do program development, compiles, etc. and have to say that for me 64-bit is definitely faster, to wit: Have you tried Tiny CC? When it's sufficient for the task, it's compile times are pretty fast. http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=staalmannen-18107-15267-29041 Have not tried Tiny CC. Almost all my stuff involves Qt, needs g++ Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ik8da9$r05$1...@dough.gmane.org
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On 02/24/2011 02:01 PM, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: [snip] I do program development, compiles, etc. and have to say that for me 64-bit is definitely faster, to wit: Have you tried Tiny CC? When it's sufficient for the task, it's compile times are pretty fast. http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/?k=profile&u=staalmannen-18107-15267-29041 -- "The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery." Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d66d61b.7060...@cox.net
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On 02/24/2011 01:00 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 23 feb 11, 17:19:34, Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/23/2011 05:07 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 23 feb 11, 16:21:27, Ron Johnson wrote: There is a 64-bit kernel for the 32-bit distro. It would make installing the nvidia driver impossible thru the Debian package, but it *is* doable via much manual intervention. Care to elaborate on this? I have squeeze running fine with linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 and nvidia-glx. 32-bit userland or 64-bit userland? 32-bit userland, installed in late freeze. Very interesting. It wasn't like that a couple of years ago. -- "The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery." Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d66d315.6070...@cox.net
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
David Baron wrote: I am currently running Sid, 32-bit with recent i686 32 bit kernels. Here is my cpu: ~$ lscpu Architecture: i686 CPU op-mode(s):32-bit, 64-bit CPU(s):2 Thread(s) per core:2 Core(s) per socket:1 CPU socket(s): 1 Vendor ID: GenuineIntel CPU family:15 Model: 4 Stepping: 3 CPU MHz: 3000.282 L1d cache: 16K L2 cache: 2048K Should I go to a 64-bit kernel? Benefits vs. Risks? Will 64bit enable kvm functionality on this box? Will this work with existing packages which could then be changed to 64 bit piecemeal or if taking the plunge, must/should redo everything? Here is mine (4GB memory): Architecture: x86_64 CPU op-mode(s):64-bit CPU(s):2 Thread(s) per core:1 Core(s) per socket:2 CPU socket(s): 1 NUMA node(s): 1 Vendor ID: AuthenticAMD CPU family:16 Model: 6 Stepping: 2 CPU MHz: 3000.399 Virtualization:AMD-V L1d cache: 64K L1i cache: 64K L2 cache: 1024K I do program development, compiles, etc. and have to say that for me 64-bit is definitely faster, to wit: http://debian-oaxaca.blogspot.com/ That graph takes 8.676 secs to execute on Sid amd64 and 16.444 secs on Sid 686-bigmem. Same program, same data. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ik6deq$964$1...@dough.gmane.org
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On Mi, 23 feb 11, 17:19:34, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 02/23/2011 05:07 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: > >On Mi, 23 feb 11, 16:21:27, Ron Johnson wrote: > >> > >>There is a 64-bit kernel for the 32-bit distro. It would make > >>installing the nvidia driver impossible thru the Debian package, but > >>it *is* doable via much manual intervention. > > > >Care to elaborate on this? I have squeeze running fine with > >linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 and nvidia-glx. > > > > 32-bit userland or 64-bit userland? 32-bit userland, installed in late freeze. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On 02/23/2011 05:07 PM, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mi, 23 feb 11, 16:21:27, Ron Johnson wrote: There is a 64-bit kernel for the 32-bit distro. It would make installing the nvidia driver impossible thru the Debian package, but it *is* doable via much manual intervention. Care to elaborate on this? I have squeeze running fine with linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 and nvidia-glx. 32-bit userland or 64-bit userland? -- "The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery." Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d659606.50...@cox.net
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On Mi, 23 feb 11, 16:21:27, Ron Johnson wrote: > > There is a 64-bit kernel for the 32-bit distro. It would make > installing the nvidia driver impossible thru the Debian package, but > it *is* doable via much manual intervention. Care to elaborate on this? I have squeeze running fine with linux-image-2.6.32-5-amd64 and nvidia-glx. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On 02/23/2011 02:27 PM, David Baron wrote: I am currently running Sid, 32-bit with recent i686 32 bit kernels. Here is my cpu: ~$ lscpu Architecture: i686 CPU op-mode(s):32-bit, 64-bit CPU(s):2 Thread(s) per core:2 Core(s) per socket:1 CPU socket(s): 1 Vendor ID: GenuineIntel CPU family:15 Model: 4 Stepping: 3 CPU MHz: 3000.282 L1d cache: 16K L2 cache: 2048K Should I go to a 64-bit kernel? Benefits vs. Risks? Will 64bit enable kvm functionality on this box? What do you do with your PC? If you're "just a desktop user", then I recommend sticking with 32-bits (and a PAE kernel if you have gt 4GB RAM). Will this work with existing packages which could then be changed to 64 bit piecemeal or if taking the plunge, must/should redo everything? There is a 64-bit kernel for the 32-bit distro. It would make installing the nvidia driver impossible thru the Debian package, but it *is* doable via much manual intervention. -- "The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery." Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d658867.7000...@cox.net
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 10:27:31PM +0200, David Baron wrote: > Should I go to a 64-bit kernel? Benefits vs. Risks? > Will 64bit enable kvm functionality on this box? I've made these arguements on this list here before: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/05/msg01055.html In terms of enabling hardware virtualization, check the flags in /proc/cpuinfo. % egrep '(vmx|svm)' /proc/cpuinfo > Will this work with existing packages which could then be changed to 64 bit > piecemeal or if taking the plunge, must/should redo everything? If you make the move to 64-bit, then you will need to reinstall your operating system, and pull the packages from the amd64 repository. -- . o . o . o . . o o . . . o . . . o . o o o . o . o o . . o o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: To 64 or Not to 64?
On Mi, 23 feb 11, 22:27:31, David Baron wrote: > I am currently running Sid, 32-bit with recent i686 32 bit kernels. Did you try the -amd64 flavour? How much RAM do you have? Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
