Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/21/2010 11:03 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Thus, with the same router, I could take a few different *nix OS flavors and perl versions, blowing up the router with some, and not denting it with others. It's all about the packet load you push through the router. It's absolutely normal for setups that seem the same to nuke the router, because once you peek under the hood, they aren't really behaving the same at all. Take a peek under the hood. :) +1 This exercise has proven (as if there were any doubt) that not all equipment is created equal, nor operating systems, for that matter. To further illustrate, my internet connection is a tethered Blackberry phone. It loses it's mind frequently (about once a day), and has to be reset by pulling the battery. It wasn't intended to be used heavily for this purpose. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c205a4c.7070...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/20/2010 11:30 PM, Huang, Tao wrote: no, we don't want download managers here. we are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. Exactly. I'm hoping his dvd download via Iceweasel fails, since that would point directly to a driver issue. If it succeeds, that means the problemo is with the torrent software.
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: [snip] he won't be able to get the 4.4G iso file without pausing and resuming, if a misconfigured networking enviroment (or flaky wireless) was the reason. From what I can remember of his claims, it (downloading a torrent) over the wireless connection works fine with XP and with UNR. It's just some form of straight Debian where torrent downloads fail. i'm aware of that. by misconfigured and flaky i mean possible flaws within his debian setup and wireless driver. Tao -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktin3tgp3knhuz6mb3agge84aka5b_sx_v6c7p...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Huang, Tao put forth on 6/21/2010 2:36 AM: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: [snip] he won't be able to get the 4.4G iso file without pausing and resuming, if a misconfigured networking enviroment (or flaky wireless) was the reason. From what I can remember of his claims, it (downloading a torrent) over the wireless connection works fine with XP and with UNR. It's just some form of straight Debian where torrent downloads fail. i'm aware of that. by misconfigured and flaky i mean possible flaws within his debian setup and wireless driver. He stated his torrent failures occur on both one rev of Ubuntu and one rev of Debian--two Linux platforms. My somewhat educated guess is that both revs use the same version of the wireless driver and likely other network kernel code that is different from the rev of Ubuntu which he has no torrent problems with. They may even use the exact same kernel rev. I've not researched this however. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1f1c25.4090...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. I'm hoping his dvd download via Iceweasel fails, since that would point directly to a driver issue. If it succeeds, that means the problemo is with the torrent software. Iceweasel, jigdo both worked. Also I've tried I think 5 different torrent software. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikli5vx23bogqaybp14gygpenk8on8d4amhc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: From what I can remember of his claims, it (downloading a torrent) over the wireless connection works fine with XP and with UNR. It's just some form of straight Debian where torrent downloads fail. XP UNR 9.10 work, Debian UNE 10.04 do not. I've successfully downloaded via Iceweasel, Usenet an now jigdo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikph2z8mxoek2qtr_rkxd1v2hcrcm3mb83lo...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/21/2010 03:00 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Huang, Tao put forth on 6/21/2010 2:36 AM: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: [snip] he won't be able to get the 4.4G iso file without pausing and resuming, if a misconfigured networking enviroment (or flaky wireless) was the reason. From what I can remember of his claims, it (downloading a torrent) over the wireless connection works fine with XP and with UNR. It's just some form of straight Debian where torrent downloads fail. i'm aware of that. by misconfigured and flaky i mean possible flaws within his debian setup and wireless driver. He stated his torrent failures occur on both one rev of Ubuntu and one rev of Debian--two Linux platforms. My somewhat educated guess is that both revs use the same version of the wireless driver and likely other network kernel code that is different from the rev of Ubuntu which he has no torrent problems with. They may even use the exact same kernel rev. I've not researched this however. Lets not forget that my *wired* system crapped out at 86% while downloading the torrent he supplied. Bouncing my WRT56GL solved the problem. However, two other torrents I've downloaded (both legally on torrent) downloaded just fine. -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1f30b3.5030...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Lets not forget that my *wired* system crapped out at 86% while downloading the torrent he supplied. Bouncing my WRT56GL solved the problem. However, two other torrents I've downloaded (both legally on torrent) downloaded just fine. I've had problems with torrents not finishing, but *never* knocking out my connection! Boy this is REALLY weird. Your wired connection on the same torrent... wow, I'm just totally confused. So what technically happening when a torrent takes down your wired connection?? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimftm8o-hlyd_ug3mnvux3rqiautuxfpg1rc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
2010/6/21 ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Lets not forget that my *wired* system crapped out at 86% while downloading the torrent he supplied. Bouncing my WRT56GL solved the problem. However, two other torrents I've downloaded (both legally on torrent) downloaded just fine. I've had problems with torrents not finishing, but *never* knocking out my connection! Boy this is REALLY weird. Your wired connection on the same torrent... wow, I'm just totally confused. So what technically happening when a torrent takes down your wired connection?? Well, it knocks out your router by eating it's memory and cpu time too much. This is typical problem on low end routers, buy better one.. -- Eero -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikg4zcxtxf2l1ehvm6c9mic2qyl4pxywfpph...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/21/2010 07:22 AM, Eero Volotinen wrote: 2010/6/21 ABS Dougabsd...@gmail.com: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Lets not forget that my *wired* system crapped out at 86% while downloading the torrent he supplied. Bouncing my WRT56GL solved the problem. However, two other torrents I've downloaded (both legally on torrent) downloaded just fine. I've had problems with torrents not finishing, but *never* knocking out my connection! Boy this is REALLY weird. Your wired connection on the same torrent... wow, I'm just totally confused. So what technically happening when a torrent takes down your wired connection?? Well, it knocks out your router by eating it's memory and cpu time too much. This is typical problem on low end routers, buy better one.. The why does it succeed when XP is the client, and for me when the torrent is non-pirate? -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1f6ccf.5020...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 1:24 AM, ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. I'm hoping his dvd download via Iceweasel fails, since that would point directly to a driver issue. If it succeeds, that means the problemo is with the torrent software. Iceweasel, jigdo both worked. Also I've tried I think 5 different torrent software. Thanks for testing it, so at this point you know it has to be something specific to torrents - you can rule out any advice people are giving about buying a better router, blah blah blah, since it works in XP and Ubuntu 9.04. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Then why does it succeed when XP is the client, and for me when the torrent is non-pirate? Yeah this is just a weird scenario now that he's said he can download via Iceweasel and jigdo in the same Debian installation. So it's not a driver issue apparently.
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Dne, 21. 06. 2010 15:44:47 je Ron Johnson napisal(a): The why does it succeed when XP is the client, and for me when the torrent is non-pirate? Well, for one, XP is a castrated OS (the notorious limit on concurrent 'half-open' connections being just one of its many self-imposed limitations); if you could castrate your Debian in a similar way, it would probably become just as router-friendly, the question is, who'd really *want* a Debian that was *that* powerless. As for why it succeeds with non-pirate torrents, two possibilities come to mind: firstly, these torrents may be more correct/compliant, and the trackers may be more stable than the pirate ones; secondly, it could be related to the number of active p2p connections that get established for a particular torrent (you'll hardly overload a router with only a couple of active peers). Just my 2¢ -- Regards, Klistvud Certifiable Loonix User #481801 http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1277140003.190...@compax
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 1:24 AM, ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote: Exactly. I'm hoping his dvd download via Iceweasel fails, since that would point directly to a driver issue. If it succeeds, that means the problemo is with the torrent software. Iceweasel, jigdo both worked. Also I've tried I think 5 different torrent software. Thanks for testing it, so at this point you know it has to be something specific to torrents - you can rule out any advice people are giving about buying a better router, blah blah blah, since it works in XP and Ubuntu 9.04. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: Then why does it succeed when XP is the client, and for me when the torrent is non-pirate? Yeah this is just a weird scenario now that he's said he can download via Iceweasel and jigdo in the same Debian installation. So it's not a driver issue apparently. . I would still like to know the answer to one simple question. Does restarting the modem/router bring the network back up? If the answer is yes, then the problem is on the modem/router. Tim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1b60da54c70c6f5b36b8cdd74fd821c6.squir...@192.168.1.100
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Tim Clewlow t...@clewlow.org wrote: I would still like to know the answer to one simple question. Does restarting the modem/router bring the network back up? If the answer is yes, then the problem is on the modem/router. How can this be true when the same machine, same hardware, different OS's downloads the torrent fine? The modem/router/ISP is common to all situations here. If the modem/router needs to be brought back up wouldn't it be because something in Debian or the non-working Ubuntu isn't handling the torrents properly?
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Tim Clewlow t...@clewlow.org wrote: I would still like to know the answer to one simple question. Does restarting the modem/router bring the network back up? If the answer is yes, then the problem is on the modem/router. How can this be true when the same machine, same hardware, different OS's downloads the torrent fine? The modem/router/ISP is common to all situations here. If the modem/router needs to be brought back up wouldn't it be because something in Debian or the non-working Ubuntu isn't handling the torrents properly? If the modem restart fixes things, then it must be a problem on the modem because nothing else has changed. In other words, the computers are all working fine, just waiting for the modem to start behaving normally again. As to why this happens at all. Not all operating systems are equal. Some systems can send bucket loads of new connections down the line very quickly, some (read windoze) have slow IO subsystems and so do not send multiple connection requests anywhere near as rapidly. I have seen modems (and had to throw them out) that worked fine on torrents from windows clients, but crashed very quickly when I ran nix/bsd torrent based clients. Tim. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/759353addf0ccc3c6a14776aabb65316.squir...@192.168.1.100
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/21/2010 03:37 PM, Tim Clewlow wrote: As to why this happens at all. Not all operating systems are equal. Some systems can send bucket loads of new connections down the line very quickly, some (read windoze) have slow IO subsystems and so do not send multiple connection requests anywhere near as rapidly. I have seen modems (and had to throw them out) that worked fine on torrents from windows clients, but crashed very quickly when I ran nix/bsd torrent based clients. For that matter, even different programs (or different versions of a same program) might behave differently in regard to how many connections are opened, in how much time, and so on. -- True, it returns for false, but is an even more interesting number than 0. -- Larry Wall in 199707300650.xaa05...@wall.org Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1fb893.1060...@kalinowski.com.br
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:43:21PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: snip. From what I can remember of his claims, it (downloading a torrent) over the wireless connection works fine with XP and with UNR. It's just some form of straight Debian where torrent downloads fail. I'm not so sure. He posted this same problem on the Ubuntu-users list. I think that was before he switched to Debian. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Tim Clewlow t...@clewlow.org wrote: As to why this happens at all. Not all operating systems are equal. Some systems can send bucket loads of new connections down the line very quickly, some (read windoze) have slow IO subsystems and so do not send multiple connection requests anywhere near as rapidly. I have seen modems (and had to throw them out) that worked fine on torrents from windows clients, but crashed very quickly when I ran nix/bsd torrent based clients. This makes sense, I guess it's just my opinion but if I knew Ubuntu 9.04 _and_ Windows both downloaded the torrent fine, I would just use one of those instead of replacing the modem (if that turns out to be the case). Who's to say the modem he replaces it with would work? See what I mean, there's already a solution available (2 actually, 9.04 and Windows) so it seems like he's in the space of diminishing returns now.
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Monday 21 June 2010 23:38:21 Mark wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Tim Clewlow t...@clewlow.org wrote: As to why this happens at all. Not all operating systems are equal. Some systems can send bucket loads of new connections down the line very quickly, some (read windoze) have slow IO subsystems and so do not send multiple connection requests anywhere near as rapidly. I have seen modems (and had to throw them out) that worked fine on torrents from windows clients, but crashed very quickly when I ran nix/bsd torrent based clients. This makes sense, I guess it's just my opinion but if I knew Ubuntu 9.04 _and_ Windows both downloaded the torrent fine, I would just use one of those +1 Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201006212352.13925.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Mark put forth on 6/21/2010 1:20 PM: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Tim Clewlow t...@clewlow.org wrote: I would still like to know the answer to one simple question. Does restarting the modem/router bring the network back up? If the answer is yes, then the problem is on the modem/router. How can this be true when the same machine, same hardware, different OS's downloads the torrent fine? The modem/router/ISP is common to all situations here. If the modem/router needs to be brought back up wouldn't it be because something in Debian or the non-working Ubuntu isn't handling the torrents properly? I have a perl application that I use to pull rDNS names for all IPs in any network up to a size /16 totally in parallel. For a /16 query, the application will send 65,536 _simultaneous_ UDP packets to remote DNS servers. This absolutely melts every consumer router on the market. Some just stop functioning and require a reboot. Some have hard coded UDP flood protection on both the public and private interfaces and simply drop excessive packets, allowing normal UDP traffic to flow after a timeout period, usually a few seconds to a minute or more. I have a 2nd version of this perl application that sends the queries in batches instead of all at once. The batch size is configurable, allowing one to tickle the dragon to find the settings that work fine just below the melting point. These applications behave slightly differently on different flavors of *nix and with different versions of perl and different versions of the required perl modules. Thus, with the same router, I could take a few different *nix OS flavors and perl versions, blowing up the router with some, and not denting it with others. It's all about the packet load you push through the router. It's absolutely normal for setups that seem the same to nuke the router, because once you peek under the hood, they aren't really behaving the same at all. Take a peek under the hood. :) -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c20361c.7090...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.comwrote: Thus, with the same router, I could take a few different *nix OS flavors and perl versions, blowing up the router with some, and not denting it with others. It's all about the packet load you push through the router. It's absolutely normal for setups that seem the same to nuke the router, because once you peek under the hood, they aren't really behaving the same at all. Take a peek under the hood. :) Interesting, so is the router to blame or the OS? Because you're fixing the problem by the OS, not changing the router. Short of people buying beefy commercial grade routers for home usage torrent downloading, what's the solution?
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Mark put forth on 6/21/2010 11:13 PM: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.comwrote: Thus, with the same router, I could take a few different *nix OS flavors and perl versions, blowing up the router with some, and not denting it with others. It's all about the packet load you push through the router. It's absolutely normal for setups that seem the same to nuke the router, because once you peek under the hood, they aren't really behaving the same at all. Take a peek under the hood. :) Interesting, so is the router to blame or the OS? The answer isn't a simple either/or. You can't simply lay blame either. It's a balancing act. If you're of the opinion that any consumer router should be able to take anything you throw at it, then the router is to blame. But we all know that you get what you pay for. In that sense, it's not the router's fault but the customer's for buying cheap or less than capable. Sure, the consumer didn't know it at the time of the router purchase, but hay, that's life. That's why Walmart sells a $69 lawnmower and a $269 lawnmower. They both should be able to mow any amount of grass on any terrain _forever_ without breaking right? (laughs) _WRONG_. The $69 mower will last an owner of a large yard for a season, maybe two. Then it will fail. One personality type will draw the mower back to Walmart and scream and shout at the customer service people making all kinds of demands. The other personality type will realize he bought a cheap fucking mower which failed after two seasons, and he'll go back and buy the $269 mower which may likely last 10 seasons. Over 99% of all consumer broadband users have a $69 mower that their ISP gave them free of charge during service connection. Somewhere between 1% and 10% of these users really hammer their free $69 mower, then complain when it fails to perform the way they expect. Because you're fixing the problem by the OS, not changing the router. No, I'm actually fixing the problem by changing the application to work around the limitations of the routers. When mentioned some combos break the router and others do not, picking one that doesn't isn't a solution. The next aptitude safe-upgrade may cause one's apps to start breaking the router. Short of people buying beefy commercial grade routers for home usage torrent downloading, what's the solution? _IF_ indeed Debian/Ubuntu users are nuking their routers with torrent traffic, then the solution is the same as the rDNS tool solution I use to keep from UDP flooding my router: You modify the application, or tweak its settings (if such settings are tweakable), to keep it from melting the router with its traffic pattern/load. Simple. _IF_ it is unacceptable to such users to have to slow down their torrents, and thus they aren't willing to change the packet behavior of their app, then they simply have to pony up and buy a better router that doesn't melt under the load. If this is truly a problem in the wild with torrent users, there will be thousands of forum and list posts on the net containing lists of models of wired and wireless routers that have been verified as good choices for torrent users. I'm not a torrent user so I have no clue what goes on in this world. However, just like everywhere else, if there is a widespread problem in a community, there will exists plenty of information online about said issue. In the case of the original OP, he doesn't own or control his router, so this is not an option for him. His only option is to find an OS/application combo that doesn't break things, or tweak one that is breaking things until it no longer does so. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c204066.90...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/20/2010 12:50 AM, Mark Allums wrote: [snip] Throttling is just one possibility, and maybe (probably) not even the best guess. It's just a suggestion. I think throttling is more likely if you open lots of connections, so try using fewer. Beyond about four, you won't see much improvement if you are already receiving at close to your connection's top speed. I don't know much about how torrent works. Does Downloading from 29 of 54 connected peers mean that I'm using 29 connections? -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1db661.2080...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Ron Johnson put forth on 6/20/2010 1:34 AM: On 06/20/2010 12:50 AM, Mark Allums wrote: [snip] Throttling is just one possibility, and maybe (probably) not even the best guess. It's just a suggestion. I think throttling is more likely if you open lots of connections, so try using fewer. Beyond about four, you won't see much improvement if you are already receiving at close to your connection's top speed. I don't know much about how torrent works. Does Downloading from 29 of 54 connected peers mean that I'm using 29 connections? 'netstat -an' should tell you. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1db8be.7000...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/20/2010 01:44 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 6/20/2010 1:34 AM: On 06/20/2010 12:50 AM, Mark Allums wrote: [snip] Throttling is just one possibility, and maybe (probably) not even the best guess. It's just a suggestion. I think throttling is more likely if you open lots of connections, so try using fewer. Beyond about four, you won't see much improvement if you are already receiving at close to your connection's top speed. I don't know much about how torrent works. Does Downloading from 29 of 54 connected peers mean that I'm using 29 connections? 'netstat -an' should tell you. $ netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep -v LISTEN | wc -l 111 -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1dbc21.9060...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
I'm just curious since ABS Doug didn't reply to my suggestions, have you read my reply? Here is the pertinent info below. It's clearly not a hardware problem, on the computer or router, since other OS's work fine. My previous reply: Nuno mentioned looking at your hardware, and it's possible the drivers are different in the Ubuntu/XP/Debian platforms that's causing the dropout. Is it only with torrents, or is it all downloads? What if you download a dvd .iso file via jigdo or Iceweasel, does it drop out there? Have you checked what drivers and versions are in the differnet OS's you are using for your ethernet connection, to see if that's the issue? I'm trying to help here.
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/20/2010 1:34 AM, Ron Johnson wrote: On 06/20/2010 12:50 AM, Mark Allums wrote: [snip] Throttling is just one possibility, and maybe (probably) not even the best guess. It's just a suggestion. I think throttling is more likely if you open lots of connections, so try using fewer. Beyond about four, you won't see much improvement if you are already receiving at close to your connection's top speed. I don't know much about how torrent works. Does Downloading from 29 of 54 connected peers mean that I'm using 29 connections? Connections aren't specifically about torrents. In a torrent, you could have four connections _per peer_. 29*4=116. This might be unhealthy. *shrug* -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1ddbda.2070...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Ron Johnson put forth on 6/20/2010 1:58 AM: $ netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep -v LISTEN | wc -l 111 You might get a more accurate count of BitTorrent connections with: netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep :[6][8,9][0-9][0-9] | grep -c -v LISTEN Your command line merely shows all TCP connections that are in any state but LISTEN. This should count only connections on TCP 6881-6999, either inbound or out. AIUI, this is the port range used by the BitTorrent clients. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1dee50.2040...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 6/20/2010 1:58 AM: $ netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep -v LISTEN | wc -l 111 You might get a more accurate count of BitTorrent connections with: netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep :[6][8,9][0-9][0-9] | grep -c -v LISTEN netstat -atn instead of netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ :p Your command line merely shows all TCP connections that are in any state but LISTEN. This should count only connections on TCP 6881-6999, either inbound or out. AIUI, this is the port range used by the BitTorrent clients. -- Stan Tao -- http://huangtao.me/ http://www.google.com/profiles/UniIsland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikjjlnx2ofdbypgosyesg9zm374pmhvqst-e...@mail.gmail.com
netstat (was Re: Torrents killing my conection)
On 06/20/2010 10:27 AM, Huang, Tao wrote: On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Stan Hoeppners...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 6/20/2010 1:58 AM: $ netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep -v LISTEN | wc -l 111 You might get a more accurate count of BitTorrent connections with: netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep :[6][8,9][0-9][0-9] | grep -c -v LISTEN netstat -atn instead of netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ :p Nope, since that also returns tcp6 packets. This does it simplest: $ netstat -ant4 -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1e6461.2040...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote: My previous reply: Nuno mentioned looking at your hardware, and it's possible the drivers are different in the Ubuntu/XP/Debian platforms that's causing the dropout. Is it only with torrents, or is it all downloads? What if you download a dvd .iso file via jigdo or Iceweasel, does it drop out there? Have you checked what drivers and versions are in the differnet OS's you are using for your ethernet connection, to see if that's the issue? I'm trying to help here. I'm sorry, I was trying to figure out what jiado is. Also I've never did a DL through Iceweasel was trying to figure that out to. Then I got distracted forgot. I'm about to go try a download of Ubuntu via torrent to see if I have an issue. If you want to provide more info re: jiado DL through Iceweasel, I'll try it! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktil8-6md9so0il4l29hfw4gdzsjz-959cttng...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:39 PM, ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com wrote: If you want to provide more info re: jiado DL through Iceweasel, I'll try it! Sorry, I got what you mean DL through Iceweasel... doing it now, downloading Ubuntu. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikfposok0ckkdsasw3pdhncz4sqwufncbwcp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Downloading Ubuntu through Iceweasel went fine... thing is it went SO fast, I'm not sure it's really a good test. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimrnhkbqbp4e-4t62aeht3ci7edskq12c7-0...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:42 PM, ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:39 PM, ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com wrote: If you want to provide more info re: jiado DL through Iceweasel, I'll try it! It's jigdo, and it's a great way to download big files for Debian. It's the only thing I use to download Debian installer images these days, as it even does the md5 checksum for you. More info here: http://atterer.net/jigdo/ Ubuntu download might be too small to test, that's why I suggested a dvd download. The logic is, if you can download large files on the same OS but from a different software platform like jigdo or Iceweasel, you've isolated the problem to be only with the torrent interface.
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sunday 20 June 2010 18:06:37 ABS Doug wrote: Downloading Ubuntu through Iceweasel went fine... thing is it went SO fast, I'm not sure it's really a good test. FYI, this effectively rules out the MTU issues I suggested earlier, so it was a useful test for that. The multi-OS character would seem to rule out hardware, so at this point the most likely candidate is network drivers. A bit of googling following up on your lspci output (showing an Atheros AR242x device) turned up this page: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Lucid#Atheros_Cards The upshot there seems to be that the Right Thing is to select the proprietary drivers option at Ubuntu-install-time, and things should work. If you didn't do that, you can follow the instructions on the page there to get recent madwifi drivers. If you already *did* select the proprietary drivers at Ubuntu-install time, and they're not working, then I suppose you could try the more recent madwifi drivers anyways... -- A. -- Andrew Reid / rei...@bellatlantic.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201006202026.57111.rei...@bellatlantic.net
Re: netstat (was Re: Torrents killing my conection)
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: [snip] Nope, since that also returns tcp6 packets. This does it simplest: $ netstat -ant4 so you are not taking use of ipv6 p2p. Tao -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimvmp4tnf7tbbfaa119pfkvylnepiz5lkqqk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: netstat (was Re: Torrents killing my conection)
On 06/20/2010 08:07 PM, Huang, Tao wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: [snip] Nope, since that also returns tcp6 packets. This does it simplest: $ netstat -ant4 so you are not taking use of ipv6 p2p. Should I be? After all, my ISP only uses IPv4 for consumer HSI. -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1ec029.5020...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote: Ubuntu download might be too small to test, that's why I suggested a dvd download. The logic is, if you can download large files on the same OS but from a different software platform like jigdo or Iceweasel, you've isolated the problem to be only with the torrent interface. Yes, quite right, a DVD. Now which one? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikte8ntxt4eqsfyn4035p7hzzsgelt51u6nc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:59 AM, ABS Doug absd...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, quite right, a DVD. Now which one? download this one [1] with iceweasel and see if it fails or encounters any glitch. [1]: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.4/amd64/iso-dvd/debian-504-amd64-DVD-1.iso Tao -- http://huangtao.me/ http://www.google.com/profiles/UniIsland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilfkgzaczle7rziaoykrayfover7ssem5uxz...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/20/2010 4:39 PM, ABS Doug wrote: I'm sorry, I was trying to figure out what jiado is. Also I've never did a DL through Iceweasel was trying to figure that out to. Then I got distracted forgot. I'm about to go try a download of Ubuntu via torrent to see if I have an issue. If you want to provide more info re: jiado DL through Iceweasel, I'll try it! If you use Iceweasel for downloading, try the Firefox add-on Downthemall for management of downloads. I use and recommend it. Mainly for safer pause (or dropped connection) and resume. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1ee7fc.60...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Huang, Tao put forth on 6/20/2010 10:27 AM: On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 6/20/2010 1:58 AM: $ netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep -v LISTEN | wc -l 111 You might get a more accurate count of BitTorrent connections with: netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ | grep :[6][8,9][0-9][0-9] | grep -c -v LISTEN netstat -atn instead of netstat -an | grep ^tcp\ :p Thanks for the tip Tao. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1eeaa8.2000...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/20/2010 11:18 PM, Mark Allums wrote: On 6/20/2010 4:39 PM, ABS Doug wrote: I'm sorry, I was trying to figure out what jiado is. Also I've never did a DL through Iceweasel was trying to figure that out to. Then I got distracted forgot. I'm about to go try a download of Ubuntu via torrent to see if I have an issue. If you want to provide more info re: jiado DL through Iceweasel, I'll try it! If you use Iceweasel for downloading, try the Firefox add-on Downthemall for management of downloads. I use and recommend it. Mainly for safer pause (or dropped connection) and resume. I forgot to mention, it's already Debian-packaged, available under Squeeze/Testing. If you were skeptical about an add-on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1eeaa2.3030...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Mark Allums m...@allums.com wrote: If you use Iceweasel for downloading, try the Firefox add-on Downthemall for management of downloads. I use and recommend it. Mainly for safer pause (or dropped connection) and resume. no, we don't want download managers here. we are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. he won't be able to get the 4.4G iso file without pausing and resuming, if a misconfigured networking enviroment (or flaky wireless) was the reason. Tao -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimfq_ztltgbt45j59mguiebwbv_l4t-qxkp4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/20/2010 11:30 PM, Huang, Tao wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Mark Allumsm...@allums.com wrote: If you use Iceweasel for downloading, try the Firefox add-on Downthemall for management of downloads. I use and recommend it. Mainly for safer pause (or dropped connection) and resume. no, we don't want download managers here. we are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. he won't be able to get the 4.4G iso file without pausing and resuming, if a misconfigured networking enviroment (or flaky wireless) was the reason. From what I can remember of his claims, it (downloading a torrent) over the wireless connection works fine with XP and with UNR. It's just some form of straight Debian where torrent downloads fail. -- Seek truth from facts. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1eede9.7070...@cox.net
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/20/2010 11:30 PM, Huang, Tao wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Mark Allumsm...@allums.com wrote: If you use Iceweasel for downloading, try the Firefox add-on Downthemall for management of downloads. I use and recommend it. Mainly for safer pause (or dropped connection) and resume. no, we don't want download managers here. we are trying to isolate the cause of the problem. I mean for general use. Whether he solves his problems, or not, he (or anyone) may find this add-on helpful. he won't be able to get the 4.4G iso file without pausing and resuming, if a misconfigured networking enviroment (or flaky wireless) was the reason ?? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1ef92f.2030...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
Torrents are trouble. Avoid them, if practical. Your ISP may be throttling them, although I can't see what difference the version of Ubuntu would make. However, if a Windows client works, then ask yourself if you need Linux for other things, or whether Windows will suit your needs. (I have two machines at home, one with Win, one with Debian Squeeze (testing). The Win machine is set up for those rare times when Debian isn't right for the job.) Huh! It is much easier when one makes proper visualisation of the protocols involved into the task. Peer2peer is not the devil, but the way to do things. I cannot imagine downloading debian dvd in one act. What if the line drops? Seriously, original poster failed to show details. Lenny is rock stable and there is no way to freeze it other than clogging i/o. For downloading torrents, isp makes bandwidth rules. Also for uploading. On some spots on mother earth it is not ligit to run server aside ones paid to the same isp. Since the port on which torrent app communicates lives in high range, I doubt it is the problem. My conclusion would be: some time has to be spent to learn ins and outs of debian first. Next, to learn how torrent works, including reading rfc or whatever similar. Last, choose the application people use and help on forums or irc channel. Best reagards Zoran -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100619145132.ga...@faust
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/19/2010 9:51 AM, Zoran Kolic wrote: Torrents are trouble. Avoid them, if practical. Your ISP may be throttling them, although I can't see what difference the version of Ubuntu would make. Huh! It is much easier when one makes proper visualisation of the protocols involved into the task. Peer2peer is not the devil, but the way to do things. I cannot imagine downloading debian dvd in one act. What if the line drops? I agree, in an ideal universe, torrents are a great innovation, and should be the standard method. Alas, in many places, by many ISPs, torrents are punished, throttled to the point of uselessness and worse. I always download my Debian DVDs by http: protocol transfer. (I have no alternative.) If the connection is dropped, it can easily be resumed, because I use a download manager and I download from a mirror that supports resuming. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1d9749.3070...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
My conclusion would be: some time has to be spent to learn ins and outs of debian first. Next, to learn how torrent works, including reading rfc or whatever similar. Last, choose the application people use and help on forums or irc channel. Or just used Windows. I mean it works it would seem there are a fair amount of people that really don't like requests for help on the Linux E-mail help lists. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikmcocpimvijjrgo2zjmlaqxws2wn1wveshh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 06/20/2010 09:51 AM, Mark Allums wrote: I agree, in an ideal universe, torrents are a great innovation, and should be the standard method. Alas, in many places, by many ISPs, torrents are punished, throttled to the point of uselessness and worse. Do they throttle torrents when protocol encryption is enabled as well ? My isp here does the same thing with unencrypted torrents but no issues at all when protocol encryption is turned on. Mihira. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1d9de7@gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 12:49 AM, Mihira Fernando mihirathe...@gmail.com wrote: Do they throttle torrents when protocol encryption is enabled as well ? My isp here does the same thing with unencrypted torrents but no issues at all when protocol encryption is turned on. Thing is, if I'm getting throttled, how come UNR 9.10 works fine? I eliminated that as a possible issue, am I missing something? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktintjh7d5dm3dlygvwmcssyw60v-xgbk9ihnt...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/19/2010 11:49 PM, Mihira Fernando wrote: On 06/20/2010 09:51 AM, Mark Allums wrote: I agree, in an ideal universe, torrents are a great innovation, and should be the standard method. Alas, in many places, by many ISPs, torrents are punished, throttled to the point of uselessness and worse. Do they throttle torrents when protocol encryption is enabled as well ? My isp here does the same thing with unencrypted torrents but no issues at all when protocol encryption is turned on. Mihira. They can, whether they do is a different story. They can't in theory (supposedly) tell what is going through a VPN, but in practice they have found they really can, after all. Some ISPs are starting to throttle all VPNs and encrypted traffic. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1da229.1000...@allums.com
Re: Torrents killing my conection
On 6/20/2010 12:04 AM, ABS Doug wrote: On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 12:49 AM, Mihira Fernando mihirathe...@gmail.com wrote: Do they throttle torrents when protocol encryption is enabled as well ? My isp here does the same thing with unencrypted torrents but no issues at all when protocol encryption is turned on. Thing is, if I'm getting throttled, how come UNR 9.10 works fine? I eliminated that as a possible issue, am I missing something? Throttling is just one possibility, and maybe (probably) not even the best guess. It's just a suggestion. I think throttling is more likely if you open lots of connections, so try using fewer. Beyond about four, you won't see much improvement if you are already receiving at close to your connection's top speed. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c1dac3b.2030...@allums.com
