Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> In any case, you may notice that I have quietly dropped the sig. Fuck
>> it, I'll miss a message here or there, but it's better than pissing
>> everybody off. I had no idea that would be the case.
>
> 
>
> You can't please all the people all the time.
> If you modify your actions every time some critic spouts off
> you'll soon stop posting here which in my opinion would be a shame.
>
> Mike McClain
>

Thanks, Mike. While I do agree with you, I came to the conclusion that
my sig was asking people to perform an action - change their habit -
and that was the problematic portion of it.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:15:22 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> I have seen the UK electrical mains connectors. I would have to admit
> that our standards are well below UK levels!

Mains electrics are covered by different regulations.  Certainly,
however, our mains connectors seem to be amongst the best.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> Looking like that, it'd be virtually unsaleable here, unless it was
> sold in kit form.
>
> "Here" being the UK.
>

I have seen the UK electrical mains connectors. I would have to admit
that our standards are well below UK levels!


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:08:22 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> Well, production in this case is not "people will die if it fails" so
> it is passable for his needs.

:-)

> > Unless, that is, Dotan stripped the unit to take the photograph.
> No, actually, that is how it came!

Looking like that, it'd be virtually unsaleable here, unless it was
sold in kit form.

"Here" being the UK.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> Not only that, but it's definitely not "production ready".  Almost
>
> I've seen far worse in production equipment.  OTOH, without a case, it
> does look far from professional.
>

Well, production in this case is not "people will die if it fails" so
it is passable for his needs.


> Unless, that is, Dotan stripped the unit to take the photograph.
>

No, actually, that is how it came!




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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:01:56 -0500
Ron Johnson  wrote:

Hello Ron,

> Not only that, but it's definitely not "production ready".  Almost 

I've seen far worse in production equipment.  OTOH, without a case, it
does look far from professional.

Unless, that is, Dotan stripped the unit to take the photograph.

> like someone wire wrapped it.

No wrapping in evidence, to my eye.  The odd wire here and there is
to avoid the cost of double sided boards and plating through.  On a
simple project, it's far easier to just add a wire link, since the price
of making d/s boards can more than double the cost of parts.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Freeman]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 01:48:30AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:

 . . .

> 
> In any case, you may notice that I have quietly dropped the sig. Fuck
> it, I'll miss a message here or there, but it's better than pissing
> everybody off. I had no idea that would be the case.
> 

Well, I'm not everybody. So, not sure you have to be concerned on that.

Let's call it a bygone and meaningless diversion. :-)

 . . . 


> 
> No, that's all right- let me know if I'm a screwup. Trust me, people
> have been worse to me that you could ever do online :) I'm not the
> "cool geek", more of the "unsocial nerd" variety, at least that was
> until my wife got hold of me and made me into a decent human being. I
> would have preferred an explanation, though, don't leave me to guess.
> There is no manpage on that (well, there are etiquette guidelines, but
> I follow them).
> 

Unfortunately, I'm no geek at all. But I prefer this list to the available
forums.  Plus I respect the aggregate IQ here.

I am going to attempt some structured and targeted studying that, when
added to years of knock-around style of experience with Debian, might amount
to something.  But I have been saturated by work and study in other areas
of my life.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 04/23/2010 07:04 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Thanks, Kevin and Brad. I now have a good starting point, and should
be able to google my way out of the situation.

To clarify, for those who I've confused in the beginning of the thread:
Despite claims by the user that he is connecting USB smart card
readers via serial, he has two different types of smart card readers:
1) Serial smart card readers of unknown origin. These card readers may
or may not be supported in Debian via third party software.


Not only that, but it's definitely not "production ready".  Almost 
like someone wire wrapped it.


He should be asking *them* for help.


2) USB smart card readers that communicate via a "virtual com port".
These card readers are supported in Linux with no mention of distro,
once they have had a firmware update (done in Windows).





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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:04:22 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> Thanks, Kevin and Brad. I now have a good starting point, and should

YW.  Just glad I could help, albeit in a limited way.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

Thanks, Kevin and Brad. I now have a good starting point, and should
be able to google my way out of the situation.

To clarify, for those who I've confused in the beginning of the thread:
Despite claims by the user that he is connecting USB smart card
readers via serial, he has two different types of smart card readers:
1) Serial smart card readers of unknown origin. These card readers may
or may not be supported in Debian via third party software.
2) USB smart card readers that communicate via a "virtual com port".
These card readers are supported in Linux with no mention of distro,
once they have had a firmware update (done in Windows).


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:40:28 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> It is where the smart card gets plugged in. They seem like oversized
> SIM cards

Like Kevin said, this thing will need software to drive it.  It's not
going to automount like a memory card.  His answer is far better than
anything I could write.

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RE: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Kevin Ross]

> From: Dotan Cohen [mailto:dotanco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:42 AM
> 
> Here is the device:
> http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9641/seriall.jpg
> 
> It is a real serial device, no USB.

I don't know a lot about smart cards, but as far as I know, you need software 
to communicate with them over a serial connection.  There are Debian packages 
for some things, like PAM modules for authenticating a user with a smart card.  
It will communicate over the existing /dev/ttyS* device nodes.  Those device 
nodes will exist for each serial port present on the computer, regardless of 
whether or not something is plugged into them.

There's also the opensc package, from the opensc-project.org website.  Here's 
the package description:

OpenSC provides a set of libraries and utilities to access smart
cards.  It mainly focuses on cards that support cryptographic
operations. It facilitates their use in security applications such as
mail encryption, authentication, and digital signature. OpenSC
implements the PKCS#11 API. Applications supporting this API, such as
Iceweasel and Icedove, can use it. OpenSC implements the PKCS#15
standard and aims to be compatible with all software that does so as
well.

Before purchasing any cards, please read carefully documentation in
/usr/share/doc/opensc/html/wiki/index.html - only some cards are
supported. Not only does card type matters, but also card version,
card OS version and preloaded applet. Only a subset of possible
operations may be supported for your card. Card initialization may
require third party proprietary software.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> I still don't get it.  And why the snark?  Not really called for...
>>
>
> Maybe it was just me.
>
> I felt that by including the Cc: line in his sig. Dotan was dragging out the
> issue of Cc:'ing somebody's INBOX, a very basic etiquette violation, that
> just happen on a different thread.  (I don't see the point of taking the
> time to start a topic, but not bother to check the list-mail box, and have
> someone Cc: your INBOX to inform you they put something in your list-box.)
>

No, I hadn't seen that thread. I did not know that such a thread
existed until now.

In any case, you may notice that I have quietly dropped the sig. Fuck
it, I'll miss a message here or there, but it's better than pissing
everybody off. I had no idea that would be the case.


> Also, it felt I had seen it before. Dotan once posted about how he would
> never post without doing the footwork first, then abruptly ended that post
> with two or three questions that basically equalled the first paragraph of
> the respective man pages.
>

Really? Which post? I _don't_ post without doing my homework, but
often I just google as I have found that google takes me to manpages
online if that will help. So long as I have the right keywords, I
usually google very well (otherwise you would hear much more of me). I
may have simply not known which keywords or programs I needed.


> Anyway, I probably shouldn't have posted regardless. Seemed like a good idea
> at the time.  :-) Finally got caught up on some sleep.
>

No, that's all right- let me know if I'm a screwup. Trust me, people
have been worse to me that you could ever do online :) I'm not the
"cool geek", more of the "unsocial nerd" variety, at least that was
until my wife got hold of me and made me into a decent human being. I
would have preferred an explanation, though, don't leave me to guess.
There is no manpage on that (well, there are etiquette guidelines, but
I follow them).


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> Is the big black block a PCMCIA connector, perhaps?
>

It is where the smart card gets plugged in. They seem like oversized SIM cards.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Freeman]

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 05:02:02PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote:
> On 4/19/2010 4:29 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >On 2010-04-19 04:24, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
> any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
> Etch is not up to the task.
> 
> >>>You completely missed (probably because gmail's web interface so
> >>>incredibly
> >>>sucks) why he's plonking you.
> >>>
> >>
> >>He quoted the whole message. Are you implying that he was referring to
> >>my "CC me" sig?
> >>
> >
> >Yes. If you used a semi-competent MUA, you'd see that.
> >
> 
> I still don't get it.  And why the snark?  Not really called for...
> 

Maybe it was just me.

I felt that by including the Cc: line in his sig. Dotan was dragging out the
issue of Cc:'ing somebody's INBOX, a very basic etiquette violation, that
just happen on a different thread.  (I don't see the point of taking the
time to start a topic, but not bother to check the list-mail box, and have
someone Cc: your INBOX to inform you they put something in your list-box.)

Also, it felt I had seen it before. Dotan once posted about how he would
never post without doing the footwork first, then abruptly ended that post
with two or three questions that basically equalled the first paragraph of
the respective man pages.

Anyway, I probably shouldn't have posted regardless. Seemed like a good idea
at the time.  :-) Finally got caught up on some sleep.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:14:06 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> This is as zoomed in as it gets:
> http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9030/serial.jpg
 
I can tell you what the components are (I used to build electronic
circuits for a living);

MAX232 converts TTL voltage levels (5V & 0V nominal) to RS232 levels
(+/-12V nominal).
The 74HC04 is an inverting buffer.
The three pin black device by the red LED is probably a voltage
regulator, since there appears to be a power cable. 
The silver item labelled 6.000 is a crystal.
Assorted resistors and capacitors, and two diodes.  Plus the LED of
course.

Is the big black block a PCMCIA connector, perhaps?

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9641/seriall.jpg
>
> Never seen anything like that before.  Without the numbers of the ICs, I
> couldn't even hazard a guess.
>

This is as zoomed in as it gets:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9030/serial.jpg


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:41:52 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9641/seriall.jpg

Never seen anything like that before.  Without the numbers of the ICs, I
couldn't even hazard a guess.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

Here is the device:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9641/seriall.jpg

It is a real serial device, no USB.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> Indeed.  Sounds to me as though Dotan's neighbour isn't all that tech
> savvie.
>

He's not, he's calling _me_ for support! Actually, he is very
knowledgeable in his field, but this is not his field.

It turns out to be a mess of parts. There is the USB card reader that
I mentioned earlier, and also a serial usb reader with no
documentation or numbers to google. I took a picture of it with my
camera phone, I will post a link shortly.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:21:12 -0500
Ron Johnson  wrote:

Hello Ron,

> Yeah, but this is one of those "release the apple and it falls" 
> guesses.  *Occasionally* it won't, but usually, like 10 9's, it will.

or as Terry Pratchett puts it;

Nine times out of ten, a million to one shot pays off.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-20 12:24, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:48:33 -0500
Ron Johnson  wrote:

Hello Ron,


That's what OP wrote, but it makes no sense.


Indeed.  Sounds to me as though Dotan's neighbour isn't all that tech
savvie.

Again, a bit of guess on my part.



Yeah, but this is one of those "release the apple and it falls" 
guesses.  *Occasionally* it won't, but usually, like 10 9's, it will.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 10:36:13 -0500
Mark Allums  wrote:

Hello Mark,

> Well, I meant a computer on both sides, but it matters not a whit.  I 

Ah, I see.

> should probably not post (even to make a joke) if I can't actually be 
> helpful, it wastes everyone's time.

Jokes are fine.  Just make sure we know that's what they are.   :-)

See?   :-))

> Sorry.

NP.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:48:33 -0500
Ron Johnson  wrote:

Hello Ron,

> That's what OP wrote, but it makes no sense.

Indeed.  Sounds to me as though Dotan's neighbour isn't all that tech
savvie.

Again, a bit of guess on my part.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Mark Allums]

On 4/20/2010 3:07 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:02:25 -0500
Mark Allums  wrote:

Hello Mark,


That ought actually to work, if a computer were plugged into the USB
side.  Then you would have a very slow transfer cable.


Yes, but AIUI, the computer's on the RS232 side.



Well, I meant a computer on both sides, but it matters not a whit.  I 
should probably not post (even to make a joke) if I can't actually be 
helpful, it wastes everyone's time.


Sorry.

MAA


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-20 03:07, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:02:25 -0500
Mark Allums  wrote:

Hello Mark,

That ought actually to work, if a computer were plugged into the USB 
side.  Then you would have a very slow transfer cable.


Yes, but AIUI, the computer's on the RS232 side.



That's what OP wrote, but it makes no sense.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:02:25 -0500
Mark Allums  wrote:

Hello Mark,

> That ought actually to work, if a computer were plugged into the USB 
> side.  Then you would have a very slow transfer cable.

Yes, but AIUI, the computer's on the RS232 side.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Freeman]

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 04:12:14AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2010-04-19 02:58, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> >>>It's a 2.6 kernel, so Etch.
> >
> >>"Plonk"
> >>
> >
> >Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
> >any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
> >Etch is not up to the task.
> >
> 
> You completely missed (probably because gmail's web interface so
> incredibly sucks) why he's plonking you.
> 

LOL! That is an hilarious and brilliant edit. I'll miss that part. 

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Mark Allums]

On 4/18/2010 3:27 PM, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:15:53 -0500
Ron Johnson  wrote:

Hello Ron,


Plz show us a link to a USB adapter that plugs into a PC's serial port.


I've never even looked for one.  I'm just going what by Dotan wrote.  By
the sounds of it, he's not seen the set up yet, anyhow.  It could well
be that his neighbour has got a USB-RS232 adapter plugged in the wrong
way round.  Of course, at this point, I'm just guessing.



That ought actually to work, if a computer were plugged into the USB 
side.  Then you would have a very slow transfer cable.


MAA

(Useless, I know.  Not helpful.)


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Mark Allums]

On 4/19/2010 4:29 AM, Ron Johnson wrote:

On 2010-04-19 04:24, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
Etch is not up to the task.


You completely missed (probably because gmail's web interface so
incredibly
sucks) why he's plonking you.



He quoted the whole message. Are you implying that he was referring to
my "CC me" sig?



Yes. If you used a semi-competent MUA, you'd see that.



I still don't get it.  And why the snark?  Not really called for...

MAA

(Sometimes gmail is what you're stuck with.)



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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> Yes.  If you used a semi-competent MUA, you'd see that.
>

I know, they all have their tradeoffs. Thanks.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

On 19 April 2010 12:15, Ron Johnson  wrote:
> On 2010-04-19 02:54, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>>>
>>> So, is does this SC reader (a) serial-over-USB or (b) USB-over-serial?
>>>
>>
>> I should imagine (b), but I have not gotten there yet to see.
>>
>
> Then he probably is clueless.
>

Well, he is turning to _me_ for advice, so that is a reasonable assumption!


>>> (a) is common, (b) is what you described, but I've never heard of (b).
>>>  Are
>>> you sure you wrote what you really mean?
>>>
>>
>> No, I have not gotten there yet to look at the machine. But I want to
>> get there prepared, which is why I ask here.
>>
>
> Querying the list without the slightest bit of *fact* is a great way to piss
> people off.
>

I am sorry if I upset people. I was faced with a situation that I did
not understand and thought that I would query those with far more
experience after searching the web yielded nothing useful. Would you
suggest that it is preferable for me to go to this guy's place not
knowing a thing about what I'm getting into, especially when the goal
"read from / write to the card reader" is so straightforward?.


>>> This is the important quote, I think: "Infinity USB Smart is based on the
>>> HID standard, no custom drivers are needed".
>>>
>>
>> HID is for keyboards and mice, not card readers. It does not handle
>> files from what I understand. This is turning into a big pile of WTF.
>>
>
> Smart cards don't pass much info, and KB emulation works well in such
> environments (also like with bar code scanners).
>

I have seen barcode and magnetic scanners that simply pass string.
Maybe you are right, maybe that is how this works. We'll see.

Thanks.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-19 04:24, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
Etch is not up to the task.


You completely missed (probably because gmail's web interface so incredibly
sucks) why he's plonking you.



He quoted the whole message. Are you implying that he was referring to
my "CC me" sig?



Yes.  If you used a semi-competent MUA, you'd see that.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
>> any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
>> Etch is not up to the task.
>>
>
> You completely missed (probably because gmail's web interface so incredibly
> sucks) why he's plonking you.
>

He quoted the whole message. Are you implying that he was referring to
my "CC me" sig?


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-19 02:54, Dotan Cohen wrote:

So, is does this SC reader (a) serial-over-USB or (b) USB-over-serial?



I should imagine (b), but I have not gotten there yet to see.



Then he probably is clueless.


(a) is common, (b) is what you described, but I've never heard of (b).  Are
you sure you wrote what you really mean?



No, I have not gotten there yet to look at the machine. But I want to
get there prepared, which is why I ask here.



Querying the list without the slightest bit of *fact* is a great way 
to piss people off.





This is the important quote, I think: "Infinity USB Smart is based on the
HID standard, no custom drivers are needed".



HID is for keyboards and mice, not card readers. It does not handle
files from what I understand. This is turning into a big pile of WTF.



Smart cards don't pass much info, and KB emulation works well in 
such environments (also like with bar code scanners).


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-19 02:58, Dotan Cohen wrote:

It's a 2.6 kernel, so Etch.



"Plonk"



Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
Etch is not up to the task.



You completely missed (probably because gmail's web interface so 
incredibly sucks) why he's plonking you.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:09:08 +0300
Dotan Cohen  wrote:

Hello Dotan,

> I think that serial doesn't even support some USB features, so I am

More of an issue would be getting the +/-12V from a 5V i/f.  Not
impossible, but not cheap when compared with the getting 5V from 12V.

> also doubtful. We'll see this evening.

Let us know;  *I'm* intrigued, even if no-one else is.   :-)

-- 
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/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> Plz show us a link to a USB adapter that plugs into a PC's serial port.
>
> I've never even looked for one.  I'm just going what by Dotan wrote.  By
> the sounds of it, he's not seen the set up yet, anyhow.  It could well
> be that his neighbour has got a USB-RS232 adapter plugged in the wrong
> way round.  Of course, at this point, I'm just guessing.
>

I think that serial doesn't even support some USB features, so I am
also doubtful. We'll see this evening.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> It might just be me, but when I head "USB-serial adaptor" I think of
> something like a PL2303 which can be used to attach devices with a
> serial connector to a PC that lacks a serial port. It would be news to
> me if these adaptors worked the other way round, too.
>
> But if it actually works, you should be able to talk to the device using
> the regular /dev/ttyS0.
>

Thanks, I think that he tried that but I will give it a go.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know.
>
> Because the device may expect a USB host controller instead a RS-232 :-?
>

Likely!


>> I am going over there to help
>> him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today. Although the
>> USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing about how to
>> mount devices attached to them.
>
> What seems to be more popular are RS-232 devices (modems, printers...)
> connected/attached to a computer USB host port, but not the opposite.
>

I have seen that, but as you say I have never seen it the way that he
describes using it now (backwards).


>> I am assuming that, being a card reader,
>> I will be able to mount the media (card).
>
> Mmm, have you tested it? :-?
>
> Insert a smartcard and check the output of "dmesg" and "mount" commands.
> They will tell.
>

I will get there later today. But I want to go prepared, which is why
I googled and asked here.

Maybe, as Ron mentioned, the "virtualCOM port" is confusing him.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> It's a 2.6 kernel, so Etch.

>
> "Plonk"
>

Why plonk me? Surely this is not the last Etch machine out there? In
any case, I could probably convince him to upgrade if you think that
Etch is not up to the task.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> What is unusual is that the page explicitly talks about Linux support and
> seems to have instructions on using it under Linux.
>

The Linux support consists of connecting the device to a Windows
computer, installing some module on the device, then using it in
"module mode". Over the telephone it is unclear to me if he
successfully did what he needs, especially as he does not have a
Windows computer handy!

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

> So, is does this SC reader (a) serial-over-USB or (b) USB-over-serial?
>

I should imagine (b), but I have not gotten there yet to see.


> (a) is common, (b) is what you described, but I've never heard of (b).  Are
> you sure you wrote what you really mean?
>

No, I have not gotten there yet to look at the machine. But I want to
get there prepared, which is why I ask here.


> Anyway, did you or he check dmesg?
>

As above.


> This is the important quote, I think: "Infinity USB Smart is based on the
> HID standard, no custom drivers are needed".
>

HID is for keyboards and mice, not card readers. It does not handle
files from what I understand. This is turning into a big pile of WTF.


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:15:53 -0500
Ron Johnson  wrote:

Hello Ron,

> Plz show us a link to a USB adapter that plugs into a PC's serial port.

I've never even looked for one.  I'm just going what by Dotan wrote.  By
the sounds of it, he's not seen the set up yet, anyhow.  It could well
be that his neighbour has got a USB-RS232 adapter plugged in the wrong
way round.  Of course, at this point, I'm just guessing.

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/ _)radnever immediately apparent"

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-18 14:40, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:20:49 -0300
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  wrote:

Hello Eduardo,

I see nothing about serial there. Just a plain smart card reader that 
connects directly via USB.


True, but Dotan's neighbour has an RS232 to USB adaptor that the reader
is connected to.



Plz show us a link to a USB adapter that plugs into a PC's serial port.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Brad Rogers]

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:20:49 -0300
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI  wrote:

Hello Eduardo,

> I see nothing about serial there. Just a plain smart card reader that 
> connects directly via USB.

True, but Dotan's neighbour has an RS232 to USB adaptor that the reader
is connected to.

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Jochen Schulz]

Dotan Cohen:
>>>
>>> A neighbor with an old Debian (probably etch but could be sarge)
>>> machine needs to know where a USB smart card reader attached via RS232
>>> adaptor
>> 
>> Huh???
> 
> He's got a few of these connected via serial adaptors:
> http://www.infinityusb.com/default.asp?show=productsdetail&ProductID=12
> 
> Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know. I am going over there to
> help him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today.
> Although the USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing
> about how to mount devices attached to them. I am assuming that, being
> a card reader, I will be able to mount the media (card).

It might just be me, but when I head "USB-serial adaptor" I think of
something like a PL2303 which can be used to attach devices with a
serial connector to a PC that lacks a serial port. It would be news to
me if these adaptors worked the other way round, too.

But if it actually works, you should be able to talk to the device using
the regular /dev/ttyS0.

J.
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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Camaleón]

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:08:16 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:

> He's got a few of these connected via serial adaptors:
> http://www.infinityusb.com/default.asp?show=productsdetail&ProductID=12
> 
> Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know. 

Because the device may expect a USB host controller instead a RS-232 :-?

> I am going over there to help
> him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today. Although the
> USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing about how to
> mount devices attached to them. 

What seems to be more popular are RS-232 devices (modems, printers...) 
connected/attached to a computer USB host port, but not the opposite.

> I am assuming that, being a card reader,
> I will be able to mount the media (card).

Mmm, have you tested it? :-?

Insert a smartcard and check the output of "dmesg" and "mount" commands. 
They will tell.

Greetings,

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-18 14:20, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

On 04/18/2010 04:08 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

He's got a few of these connected via serial adaptors:
http://www.infinityusb.com/default.asp?show=productsdetail&ProductID=12

Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know. I am going over there to
help him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today.
Although the USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing
about how to mount devices attached to them. I am assuming that, being
a card reader, I will be able to mount the media (card).
   


I see nothing about serial there. Just a plain smart card reader that 
connects directly via USB.


It did mention "virtualCOM port".

What is unusual is that the page explicitly talks about Linux support 
and seems to have instructions on using it under Linux.




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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Freeman]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 07:40:48PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> It's a 2.6 kernel, so Etch.
> 
> -- 
> Dotan Cohen
> 
> http://bido.com
> http://what-is-what.com
> 
> Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
> read all list mail.
> 

"Plonk"

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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 04/18/2010 04:08 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

He's got a few of these connected via serial adaptors:
http://www.infinityusb.com/default.asp?show=productsdetail&ProductID=12

Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know. I am going over there to
help him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today.
Although the USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing
about how to mount devices attached to them. I am assuming that, being
a card reader, I will be able to mount the media (card).
   


I see nothing about serial there. Just a plain smart card reader that 
connects directly via USB.


What is unusual is that the page explicitly talks about Linux support 
and seems to have instructions on using it under Linux.




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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-18 14:08, Dotan Cohen wrote:

A neighbor with an old Debian (probably etch but could be sarge)
machine needs to know where a USB smart card reader attached via RS232
adaptor

Huh???



He's got a few of these connected via serial adaptors:
http://www.infinityusb.com/default.asp?show=productsdetail&ProductID=12

Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know. I am going over there to
help him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today.
Although the USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing
about how to mount devices attached to them. I am assuming that, being
a card reader, I will be able to mount the media (card).



So, is does this SC reader (a) serial-over-USB or (b) USB-over-serial?

(a) is common, (b) is what you described, but I've never heard of 
(b).  Are you sure you wrote what you really mean?


Anyway, did you or he check dmesg?

This is the important quote, I think: "Infinity USB Smart is based 
on the HID standard, no custom drivers are needed".


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

>> A neighbor with an old Debian (probably etch but could be sarge)
>> machine needs to know where a USB smart card reader attached via RS232
>> adaptor
>
> Huh???
>

He's got a few of these connected via serial adaptors:
http://www.infinityusb.com/default.asp?show=productsdetail&ProductID=12

Why aren't they on real USB, I don't know. I am going over there to
help him tomorrow, so to come prepared I started googling today.
Although the USB-serial adaptors seem to be popular, I find nothing
about how to mount devices attached to them. I am assuming that, being
a card reader, I will be able to mount the media (card).


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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Ron Johnson]

On 2010-04-18 11:20, Dotan Cohen wrote:

A neighbor with an old Debian (probably etch but could be sarge)
machine needs to know where a USB smart card reader attached via RS232
adaptor 


Huh???


would be found in the filesystem. He went through /dev, with
special attention on the tty* entries, but did not find it. What is
the right way to find the device so that he could mount it?



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Re: USB device attached via RS232 adaptor

[Dotan Cohen]

It's a 2.6 kernel, so Etch.

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