Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 11:56:15AM -0500, Pascal Hakim wrote: > On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 09:44:44AM -0700, Stefan O'Rear wrote: > > In case it helps... the mail has magically resumed coming to me. Same here, though I can't yet tell if things are fully up to speed. But at least it's moving! :) yay... > I believe we've fixed it now, as long as you don't have a gmail > address. > > Cheers, > > Pasc (with his listmaster hat on) Thanks for finding the problem and fixing it! Kenward -- In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be _teachers_ and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, because passing civilization along from one generation to the next ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone could have. - Lee Iacocca -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 09:44:44AM -0700, Stefan O'Rear wrote: > In case it helps... the mail has magically resumed coming to me. I believe we've fixed it now, as long as you don't have a gmail address. Cheers, Pasc (with his listmaster hat on) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
In case it helps... the mail has magically resumed coming to me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Tuesday 17 August 2004 19:27, Brian Pack wrote: > Ok... so it looks like going through the web archive is working, but who > the hell knows if anybody is going to read it. > > So rather than helping to fix the problem, some have chosen to killfile > the topic. And now the people who are at least making an effort. It's his PERSONAL killfile. How does his blocking of reading certain people's messages to his personal inbox have affect any of the questions and answers for a particular topic on this list? Zero. > Mr. Metzler may not see this. Suits me fine. If anyone else cares to > tell him, let him know that he is personally responsible for driving > users away from Debian. Hmm. Doubt it. > There is nothing wrong with the software, far from it. It is probably > the best distro I've ever used. But I've run into far too many people in > here and especially the chat rooms that make it all too clear that > newbies aren't welcome. That anyone with *any* question isn't welcome. I've found over the years there are plenty of people on Debian lists that do not suffer fools lightly, but not all newbies are fools. There is a distinction. > I'm not through with Linux, but I'm sure the hell through with Debian > proper. Your choice. Whatever. > Goodbye. Goodbye drama queen. -- Nate Duehr, [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Above's an attempt to use what I just read about in this thread. We'll see how it works, yes? Chris Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:27:56 -0400 > > Brian Pack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ok... so it looks like going through the web archive is working, but > > who the hell knows if anybody is going to read it. ... > Stuff like this drives me nuts. This is a mailing list of users. > debian-*user*. Not developers. Not listmasters. Users. You have a > legitimate problem -- you're not getting list mail. Other people > here have confirmed the problem by saying that they, too, are not > getting mail; and they're on a variety of ISPs. So it sounds like > it's a problem with the list. The listmasters administer the list. > So it sounds like the listmasters are the people to try and sort this > out. > Maybe you've tried contacting the listmasters and they've been > unresponsive or unhelpful. Fine. But what, exactly, do you expect > me to do to "help fix the problem"? I'm a *user*. I'm not the > listmaster. Occasionally, somebody posts about a problem here that I > know something about, and can help with. Meanwhile, I ignore problem > threads in which I can't contribute anything to help fix the problem. > Since I don't administer the list, I don't have anything to > contribute to solving your problem. So *of course* I ignore the > posts. And when the posts keep on coming, *of course* I killfile the > topic. And when people make it hard to do that, *of course* I get > annoyed. Chris, I point back to what Carl said earlier about us the users. There are all levels of us out here. My comfort with Debian doesn't come from being a geek and marveling at the beauty of this system, knowing how to massage it to my idea of purring perfection in all aspects of its use. I don't know, nor care to know, every in and out of email's trappings. Mutt does those details for me. If the situation calls for that I will learn it, but not before its time. It is likely that I will forget what I did before very long, too, since I don't hack for a living. It has to do with time management and the rest of my life. I use Debian because I do my work using the apps. available here, because I don't believe in buying Gate's next silver tea spoon. And when I need it, I learn and use the wonderful configurability of the system. And that IS fun when I play. (I really appreciate the work that people put into making Debian what it is.) Why expect the same proficiency level from all people, or make it a shame when they don't possess it? Seemingly more to the original topic: FWIW, there are several reasons to post all this stuff here, whether or not people like seeing it. My own reasons mentioned in my initial post have evolved into a 3rd one--that being trying to pass information out to people BECAUSE the list admin has not responded. I don't know if my mail to that person went into a black hole or not. At least here it is public. Kenward -- In a completely rational society, the best of us would aspire to be _teachers_ and the rest of us would have to settle for something less, because passing civilization along from one generation to the next ought to be the highest honor and the highest responsibility anyone could have. - Lee Iacocca -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:18:49 -0400 > Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 04:17:28PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: >> >> > THREADS! Use the threads! Stop making new threads about this! >> >> They aren't receiving the messages, Paul. It makes it harder for >> them to follow threads. > > It makes it a pain in the ass to set "References:" or "In-Reply-To:" > correctly, for sure. In Gnus, just add the header. If you're in X, anybody can do it with one hand tied behind their back if they're at all familiar with copy and paste. > But using the same subject as the one in the post that one is quoting > isn't too hard, and would effectively accomplish the same thing. No, it doesn't. It starts a new, completely disjointed subthread. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBItDdUzgNqloQMwcRAkndAKDYNugvDVd9ZfPwUtToLM+0O8AObwCdH2Dg VMTHYRAyFZ1FTagSaKzWz3Y= =ziKx -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:27:56 -0400 Brian Pack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ok... so it looks like going through the web archive is working, but who > the hell knows if anybody is going to read it. > > So rather than helping to fix the problem, some have chosen to killfile > the topic. Stuff like this drives me nuts. This is a mailing list of users. debian-*user*. Not developers. Not listmasters. Users. You have a legitimate problem -- you're not getting list mail. Other people here have confirmed the problem by saying that they, too, are not getting mail; and they're on a variety of ISPs. So it sounds like it's a problem with the list. The listmasters administer the list. So it sounds like the listmasters are the people to try and sort this out. Maybe you've tried contacting the listmasters and they've been unresponsive or unhelpful. Fine. But what, exactly, do you expect me to do to "help fix the problem"? I'm a *user*. I'm not the listmaster. Occasionally, somebody posts about a problem here that I know something about, and can help with. Meanwhile, I ignore problem threads in which I can't contribute anything to help fix the problem. Since I don't administer the list, I don't have anything to contribute to solving your problem. So *of course* I ignore the posts. And when the posts keep on coming, *of course* I killfile the topic. And when people make it hard to do that, *of course* I get annoyed. > Mr. Metzler may not see this. Suits me fine. If anyone else cares to > tell him, let him know that he is personally responsible for driving > users away from Debian. Oh brother. >From now on, I'll be sure to stop ignoring threads that I can't say anything useful about, out of fear of driving people away. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgp7W2GfCU5Zf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 04:17:28PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > >> THREADS! Use the threads! Stop making new threads about this! > > They aren't receiving the messages, Paul. It makes it harder for > them to follow threads. That's *not* an excuse. http://lists.debian.org/ exists for a reason.sp -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBIrQmUzgNqloQMwcRAi/xAKDbzHYbgsp/+jIZ8zeNsVQ8z5ZkNQCfalnj Rl/b+TbDgCf1WZw1l8Qi1eA= =7UPe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
Ok... so it looks like going through the web archive is working, but who the hell knows if anybody is going to read it. So rather than helping to fix the problem, some have chosen to killfile the topic. And now the people who are at least making an effort. Mr. Metzler may not see this. Suits me fine. If anyone else cares to tell him, let him know that he is personally responsible for driving users away from Debian. There is nothing wrong with the software, far from it. It is probably the best distro I've ever used. But I've run into far too many people in here and especially the chat rooms that make it all too clear that newbies aren't welcome. That anyone with *any* question isn't welcome. I'm not through with Linux, but I'm sure the hell through with Debian proper. Goodbye. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:18:49 -0400 Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 04:17:28PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > THREADS! Use the threads! Stop making new threads about this! > > They aren't receiving the messages, Paul. It makes it harder for > them to follow threads. It makes it a pain in the ass to set "References:" or "In-Reply-To:" correctly, for sure. But using the same subject as the one in the post that one is quoting isn't too hard, and would effectively accomplish the same thing. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpkQLqrkSJjT.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:17:28 -0700 Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Brian Pack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> It's not an ISP problem. Too many ppl from too many ISPs are reporting >> the same thing for it to have anything to do with individual ISPs. The >> messages aren't *getting* to the ISP. > > THREADS! Use the threads! Stop making new threads about this! Really. I started out killfiling threads; but when new threads kept springing up like weeds all over the place, I changed to killfiling people instead. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpdHAERqQ3wm.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: USE THREADS, DAMMIT! Re: No list mail
On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 04:17:28PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > THREADS! Use the threads! Stop making new threads about this! They aren't receiving the messages, Paul. It makes it harder for them to follow threads. I've gotten every message, FWIW. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading http://www.jabootu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
