Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-22 Thread Michael Beattie
 Well, IE 4 with Active Desktop is a piece of sh*t. I installed it on the
 machine of my girl friend,and she wanted me to remove it instantly. With all
 those circles and orange buttons, you can't find the folders and files any
 more...

Whoa... hey, A little exploring yeilds options to turn that crap off...
Then there is the Make all folders like this one button..

But hey, Winslow is no match for Linux... JavaOS etc... (Hell, I hate to
say it, but _sometimes_ the MacOS is better.. even though it is incredibly
patronizing)

   Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

---
  Contentsofsignaturemaysettleduringshipping.
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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-22 Thread Stephen Carpenter
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-



On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:

  Well, IE 4 with Active Desktop is a piece of sh*t. I installed it on the
  machine of my girl friend,and she wanted me to remove it instantly. With all
  those circles and orange buttons, you can't find the folders and files any
  more...
 
 Whoa... hey, A little exploring yeilds options to turn that crap off...
 Then there is the Make all folders like this one button..
Since This thread refuses to die
This all reminds me of a recent article I read on why Today's PCs 
are the most crash-prone ever built. which happens to be the
exact reason I think Windows 95 is not all that bad.
The idea is simple...The average user is that guy who wants to
turn the powe r on, see the lights flash, send some e-mail, do some
things and play some games.
If it crashes now and again it is not  abig deal, its just a minor
annoyance.
(Unless you are Bill Gates and it BSODs while you are demonstrating
it at a press conference :) )
I am not saying that I personally like Win95. I love computers and
use them because I enjoy understanding them and being able to
command them to work my wayI am not the average user

 
 But hey, Winslow is no match for Linux... JavaOS etc... (Hell, I hate to
 say it, but _sometimes_ the MacOS is better.. even though it is incredibly
 patronizing)
heh I can't stand MacOS (and I am offically the Mac Guy at work..
whenever a Mac users computer needs work they say...Mac Tech Support
um yea HE is over there) I mean it works but...its too cute
of course...
I just plain use too mny systems...
linux at home (and at work on my PC)..Win95, MacOS, Win3.1, 
VMS, terminal Servers (LATs are cool)
at least with mac OS I don't see a command prompt and have
to think UM ok...which command set this time? and D'ho ls 
doesn't work in DOS
Why is the backspace actin g even stranger than in a poorly setup
XTerm? (if you think seeing ^H on a screen is badimaging
backspace sends your cursor back to the begining of the line without
having the god damned common courtesy to erase what you typed)
oh well...what was this thread about? and um..why is it here?
- -Steve 

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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-21 Thread C.J.LAWSON

 
 I didn't know it, and I don't care.  To me, this is worthless
 information.
 

 This is not valuable information about debian or is it?
 I happen to have some very valuable information on how to play the
 classical guitar.  Would you like me to post that to debian-user?
 
 The internet is full of win9[58] babbling.  When it doesn't have any
 relation to debian, it does _not_ belong on this list.

Wait until you have to make convincing arguments to folks that are making
OS decisions. You are probably just a guy behind a box at home. whoes only
concern is to get debian to work for himself. Some of us spend time
looking for convincing arguments why Linux should be the OS of choice. ..

As for the bit about your classical guitar ... .. it closes this
discussion

--Jon.




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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread Paul Miller
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote:

 Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
 is an app. loaded on dos and for this reason I think we should be talking
 about whether or not dos is a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is
 capable of becoming one. The question is, has it be implemented?

Ever try Windows '98?  Well, if you haven't, don't count on M$ ever
learning how to design a real operating system.  Yesterday I heard a
commercial on the radio about Win98 being the OS of future businesses...
Win98 runs one hell of a lot slower than Win95 and multitasks even worse.. 
I don't know where M$ came up with Win98 running programs faster than
Win95..   Win98 is a disaster; _never_ install it, it is a complete waste
of time and money.

Maybe Gates should fire all the so-called programmers and hire a few
monkeys to get the job done!  I guess that comment was a little harsh,
but necessay to get the point across

-Paul


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread E.L. Meijer \(Eric\)
 
 On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote:
 
  Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
  is an app. loaded on dos and for this reason I think we should be talking
  about whether or not dos is a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is
  capable of becoming one. The question is, has it be implemented?
 
 Ever try Windows '98?  Well, if you haven't, don't count on M$ ever
 learning how to design a real operating system.  Yesterday I heard a
 commercial on the radio about Win98 being the OS of future businesses...
 Win98 runs one hell of a lot slower than Win95 and multitasks even worse.. 
 I don't know where M$ came up with Win98 running programs faster than
 Win95..   Win98 is a disaster; _never_ install it, it is a complete waste
 of time and money.

OK there we are, a genuine M$-Windoze == shit thread.

Cut it off please, if you want this type of discussion there are plenty
news groups filled with it.  Let's keep this a _useful_ list.

Eric Meijer


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread Carroll Kong
Windows 98 and NT require more ram to be faster than 95.  Otherwise,
it's overbloated kernel and other system sucking resources will force you to hit
your harddrive (memory paging via swap file / disk) and that wil cause such a
slow down.  Personally, I find windows 95 and nt have faster response times on
some windows vs my X all oses have their purposes, I personally favor Linux
with X11 rather than MS for my general internetting pleasure.
I only tried a few betas of Windows 98, like I said.. needs more ram.
:)

Carroll Kong

On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Paul Miller wrote:

 On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote:
 
  Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
  is an app. loaded on dos and for this reason I think we should be talking
  about whether or not dos is a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is
  capable of becoming one. The question is, has it be implemented?
 
 Ever try Windows '98?  Well, if you haven't, don't count on M$ ever
 learning how to design a real operating system.  Yesterday I heard a
 commercial on the radio about Win98 being the OS of future businesses...
 Win98 runs one hell of a lot slower than Win95 and multitasks even worse.. 
 I don't know where M$ came up with Win98 running programs faster than
 Win95..   Win98 is a disaster; _never_ install it, it is a complete waste
 of time and money.
 
 Maybe Gates should fire all the so-called programmers and hire a few
 monkeys to get the job done!  I guess that comment was a little harsh,
 but necessay to get the point across
 
 -Paul


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread C.J.LAWSON

 commercial on the radio about Win98 being the OS of future businesses...
 Win98 runs one hell of a lot slower than Win95 and multitasks even worse.. 
 I don't know where M$ came up with Win98 running programs faster than
 Win95..   Win98 is a disaster; _never_ install it, it is a complete waste
 of time and money.

Well if decide to pay for a doddgy OS when an excellent free one is
available ...On your head be it

Jonathan
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--anon



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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread E.L. Meijer \(Eric\)
 
   Win98 runs one hell of a lot slower than Win95 and multitasks even 
   worse.. 
  
  Cut it off please, if you want this type of discussion there are plenty
  news groups filled with it.  Let's keep this a _useful_ list.
  
 
 Sorry, but this is valuable information ... so you knew it, some of us
 didn't 
 

I didn't know it, and I don't care.  To me, this is worthless
information.

This is not valuable information about debian or is it?
I happen to have some very valuable information on how to play the
classical guitar.  Would you like me to post that to debian-user?

The internet is full of win9[58] babbling.  When it doesn't have any
relation to debian, it does _not_ belong on this list.

Eric Meijer


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread Paul Miller
On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote:

  Windows 98 and NT require more ram to be faster than 95.  Otherwise,
 This is an issue that is dear to my heart ... I want my memory to be used
 /principally/ for my applications not gobbled up by my OS!
 

I have 64 megs of ram in my Dell 200... and Windows 98 doesn't even
compare to the speed on 95...  even when openning the start menu, Win98
takes 5 to 10 seconds longer.. and browsing through my computer (in
Classic style) is also extremely slow...  KDE is much faster, but it needs
a lot of work..

-Paul



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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread Marcus Brinkmann
On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 04:43:41PM +0200, E.L. Meijer (Eric) wrote:
  
Win98 runs one hell of a lot slower than Win95 and multitasks even 
worse.. 
   
   Cut it off please, if you want this type of discussion there are plenty
   news groups filled with it.  Let's keep this a _useful_ list.
  
  Sorry, but this is valuable information ... so you knew it, some of us
  didn't 
 
 I didn't know it, and I don't care.  To me, this is worthless
 information.

Then please try to ignore it. It is interesting for some of us and blaming
others helps to work together for the Good Thing. We all need a rest,
looking at the other things out there and compare. Human nature.
 
 This is not valuable information about debian or is it?

It is, because it shows where we are better ;)

 I happen to have some very valuable information on how to play the
 classical guitar.  Would you like me to post that to debian-user?

YES! Seriously, I play guitar and double bass. Another point is that the
debian-user list is a list for debian user, and therefore the topics vary
from technical discussion to rants about windows. I learned a lot on the
list that is not necessarily bound to Debian.

 The internet is full of win9[58] babbling.  When it doesn't have any
 relation to debian, it does _not_ belong on this list.

Well, IE 4 with Active Desktop is a piece of sh*t. I installed it on the
machine of my girl friend,and she wanted me to remove it instantly. With all
those circles and orange buttons, you can't find the folders and files any
more...

But I should stop, as you don't want to hear this...

Marcus

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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-20 Thread DAVID B. TEAGUE

On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Marcus Brinkmann wrote:

 On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 04:43:41PM +0200, E.L. Meijer (Eric) wrote:

  I happen to have some very valuable information on how to play the
  classical guitar.  Would you like me to post that to debian-user?

 YES! Seriously, I play guitar and double bass. Another point is that the
 debian-user list is a list for debian user, and therefore the topics vary
 from technical discussion to rants about windows. I learned a lot on the
 list that is not necessarily bound to Debian.
 
 But I should stop, as you don't want to hear this...
 
HEAR HEAR!  This is not inappropriate discussion for the Deb User list.

I too play double bass myself (or bass violin as Professor Murray
Grodner called it, and the folk who succeeded Professor Grodner and his
wife at Lemur Music call it as well.) 

Marcus, I share your classic guitar interest, as well, though I
certainly wouldn't say I _play_ classical guitar. I have attempted to
play it, and would not find a word or two about either topic
inappropriate. 

If you want to talk double bass, instruments, music, etc, I'll be
delighted to talk to you about it. Is this is maybe more border line
than Windows 95 crud software? 


David  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Linux the choice of a GNU generation.
FREE UN*X NOW for the i[3456...]86, alpha, sparc, mips 





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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-17 Thread C.J.LAWSON
Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
is an app. loaded on dos and for this reason I think we should be talking
about whether or not dos is a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is
capable of becoming one. The question is, has it be implemented?


-J.

===

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--anon


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-17 Thread Mike Holliday
Check out OpenDos, by Cadera, it is a full multitasking OS.
-Original Message-
From: C.J.LAWSON [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: debian-user mailing list debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is
multitasking.


Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
is an app. loaded on dos and for this reason I think we should be talking
about whether or not dos is a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is
capable of becoming one. The question is, has it be implemented?


-J.

===


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 --anon


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-17 Thread Mike Schmitz
On Fri, Apr 17, 1998 at 03:41:45PM +0100, C.J.LAWSON wrote:
 Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
 is an app. loaded on dos and for this reason I think we should be talking
 about whether or not dos is a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is
 capable of becoming one. The question is, has it be implemented?
 

DesQview, DoubleDos, NovelDOS, VM to name a few.

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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-17 Thread The Thought Assassin
On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote:
 Well for what it is worth my own opinion is that 95 just like its forbears
 is an app. loaded on dos 
No. A program becomes an operating system when it installs it's
own interrupt servicing routies. Win95 does this, and though it kicks back
to DOS's interrupt handlers for some things, it does this via calls from
it's own handlers. DOS is merely used as a boot loader, and windows seems 
to forget to unload it.

 and for this reason I think we should be talking about whether or not dos is
 a true multi-tasking OS ... It certainly is capable of becoming one.
There is nothing to talk about. DOS is not a multitasking OS, and it
cannot become on without a major rewrite, (such as win95, which is a
poorly implemented, but nevertheless true multitasking OS) at which point,
we can't really call it DOS.

 The question is, has it been implemented?
Yes, they rewrote DOS and called it windows. it multitasks, but it isn't
DOS. (It does use DOS as a boot loader)

7~he 7~hought /|ssassin


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-17 Thread C.J.LAWSON

On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, The Thought Assassin wrote:

 own interrupt servicing routies. Win95 does this, and though it kicks back
 to DOS's interrupt handlers for some things, it does this via calls from
That is just the point!

 it's own handlers. DOS is merely used as a boot loader, and windows seems 
 to forget to unload it.
I don't think it forgets to unload it ... It just can't ... it relies on
it for some things. To paraphrase you.


Jonathan

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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-17 Thread C.J.LAWSON

On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Mike Schmitz wrote:

 
 DesQview, DoubleDos, NovelDOS, VM to name a few.
 
I thought the context was W-95?


Jonathan
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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-11 Thread vandeveb
  Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.  
 
 Can you prove that Win95 is just pretending to be multitasking ? 
 What about Win98 ?


I thought that it was true multi-tasking in the sense that it multi-tasked 
between the mouse  
everything else.  Which is why if one program crashed, the system became 
useless, but the 
mouse still worked.


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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-11 Thread Tristan Day
I think what they mean by *true* multitasking is:

1. Win95 is designed to make the program that you have 'active' (the top
program you are using at the time) work fastest and gives it max power while
the background tasks (the ones you've got open but aren't using at the
moment) have a very small amount of CPU usage and are minimised in memory.
This can be a complete pain if you're using lots of programs on a server or
many important, power-demanding programs at once, and is really crummy for
CAD/CAM and other such programs.

2. Linux seems to think it's running on several terminals, because you can
run lots of different consoles at the same time, as if you were only using
one (eg when you press Control-Alt-F2, F3, etc). Win95 doesn't do this.




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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-11 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 12:02:22AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.  
  
  Can you prove that Win95 is just pretending to be multitasking ? 
  What about Win98 ?
 
 I thought that it was true multi-tasking in the sense that it multi-tasked 
 between the mouse  
 everything else.  Which is why if one program crashed, the system became 
 useless, but the 
 mouse still worked.

Actually, on any modern video the mouse cursor is done in hardware
as I understand it -- Windows couldn't stop that just because it crashed
unless it went trashing registers too.


Hamish
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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-11 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Sat, Apr 11, 1998 at 12:40:49PM +0100, Tristan Day wrote:
 I think what they mean by *true* multitasking is:
 
 1. Win95 is designed to make the program that you have 'active' (the top
 program you are using at the time) work fastest and gives it max power while
 the background tasks (the ones you've got open but aren't using at the
 moment) have a very small amount of CPU usage and are minimised in memory.
 This can be a complete pain if you're using lots of programs on a server or
 many important, power-demanding programs at once, and is really crummy for
 CAD/CAM and other such programs.
 
 2. Linux seems to think it's running on several terminals, because you can
 run lots of different consoles at the same time, as if you were only using
 one (eg when you press Control-Alt-F2, F3, etc). Win95 doesn't do this.

The true multitasking discussion is a dangerous one. Years ago Amiga
users managed to convince everyone who didn't know better that the Amiga
was the only machine which had true multitasking. As I see it, to
be absolutely purist about it, you can only multitask with multiple
CPUs. Anything else is done with very rapid context/task switching.
Which is just what the Amiga did then and just what Linux does now.

And just what Windows does too. Regarding point #1, so Windows prioritizes
your foreground app for whatever reason -- so what? Linux has priority
scheduling too if you want to make one app run faster than another,
or chew less CPU etc. This isn't an inherently bad feature, although
it'd be nice to be able to customize priorities.

Another problem with Windows is that Win16 has non-pre-emptive multitasking.
This means that although it still does rapid task switching, it only
task switches when each program says it has finished for that particular
time slice. Win32 is pre-emptive (as are Linux etc), which means that the
kernel just up and does it. Win95 still has to non-pre-emptively multitask
16 bit apps, but they are all run together as one 32 bit process I believe.

Re: #2 -- Windows is not multiuser in the Unix sense. Citrix make a nice
WinNT 3.51 variant called WinCenter which is multiuser.


Hamish
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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-11 Thread Markus Lechner
Hamish Moffatt wrote:

 The true multitasking discussion is a dangerous one.

Why? Dont know... Do you mean 'fanatics'..?

 Years ago Amiga users

Yes, i was an Amiga user... :) And yes, most of them (me too) tried to
tell others the big differences in this system... this was years ago -
and at this time there was a *big* difference between Amiga and *all*
the other systems. Ok, except big Un*x Systems. At least, the Amiga
had a Un*x-like core and structure.

 managed to convince everyone who didn't know better that the Amiga
 was the only machine which had true multitasking.

If they told you that was true multitasking - they weren't precise.

 As I see it, to
 be absolutely purist about it, you can only multitask with multiple
 CPUs.

The Amiga had *more* than one CPU. Only one CPU was the *real*
processor,
but there was one *CPU* for the graphics, one for the sound, another one
for graphics/timing and another one for data-transfer and manipulation.
And between them there was real multitasking. If one owns a pc with a
bunch of cards in the slots, then he has those more CPU's, too. But the
question is: are those other CPU's integrated in a low layer or not.
If not, the multitasking is a big joke. It's not very atomic.
If yes, best ;)

 Anything else is done with very rapid context/task switching.
 Which is just what the Amiga did then and just what Linux does now.

Yes, but...

 And just what Windows does too. Regarding point #1, so Windows prioritizes
 your foreground app for whatever reason -- so what? Linux has priority
 scheduling too if you want to make one app run faster than another,
 or chew less CPU etc. This isn't an inherently bad feature, although
 it'd be nice to be able to customize priorities.

... it's the granulatity that counts. Linux seems to be very *atomic*.
Amiga
was more atomic. BTW it's not only nice but important to be able to
change
priorities of running processes.

 Another problem with Windows is that Win16 has non-pre-emptive multitasking.
 This means that although it still does rapid task switching, it only
 task switches when each program says it has finished for that particular
 time slice.

Same as all the old Apple-OS's...

 Win32 is pre-emptive (as are Linux etc), which means that the
 kernel just up and does it. Win95 still has to non-pre-emptively multitask
 16 bit apps, but they are all run together as one 32 bit process I believe.

You said it... as one 32 bit process. And the granularity is bad, too.
There
are differences between pre-emptive multitasking and pre-emptive
multitasking.
I would not say that win95 has *real* real multitasking :)

 
 Re: #2 -- Windows is not multiuser in the Unix sense. Citrix make a nice
 WinNT 3.51 variant called WinCenter which is multiuser.

Yep.

 Actually, on any modern video the mouse cursor is done in hardware
 as I understand it -- Windows couldn't stop that just because it crashed
 unless it went trashing registers too.

Yep :)


Mac

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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-11 Thread DAVID B. TEAGUE

On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, shaul wrote:

  Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.  
 
 Can you prove that Win95 is just pretending to be multitasking ? 
 What about Win98 ?

Any damned operating system that has to STOP me from entering data
to reunumber or print a file may be multitasking, but most certainly
that application does NOT take advantage of the OS. Beyond that, I can't
prove anything.

--David

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Re: Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.

1998-04-10 Thread shaul
 Windoze 95 is not multi-tasking, it just pretends it is multitasking.  

Can you prove that Win95 is just pretending to be multitasking ? 
What about Win98 ?




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