Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:16:09PM -0600, Gary Turner wrote: By the way, your message asks for a return receipt, which I would guess isn't everyone's preferred setting for a mailing list. Maybe for mail-lists we should honor requests for return receipts. Talk about your self-induced DoS attack :) Does mutt have a quadoption for this? -- .''`. Baloo [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian admin and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than to fix a system msg29574/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Paul Johnson wrote: On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:16:09PM -0600, Gary Turner wrote: By the way, your message asks for a return receipt, which I would guess isn't everyone's preferred setting for a mailing list. Maybe for mail-lists we should honor requests for return receipts. Talk about your self-induced DoS attack :) Does mutt have a quadoption for this? Paul, didn't you have a bounce set up for HTML? Or was it the Dman? Wasn't that in Exim, or procmail? Seems like a confirmation could be set up based on the same kind of parameters. Since I just barely have Mutt and Exim working, I'll bow to your expertise on this. ;) -- gt [EMAIL PROTECTED] If someone tells you--- I have a sense of humor, but that's not funny. ---they don't. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Jack Nguy wrote: Why is this on this mailing list again? By the way, your message asks for a return receipt, which I would guess isn't everyone's preferred setting for a mailing list. Daniel -- Daniel Barclay [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Daniel Barclay wrote: Jack Nguy wrote: Why is this on this mailing list again? By the way, your message asks for a return receipt, which I would guess isn't everyone's preferred setting for a mailing list. Maybe for mail-lists we should honor requests for return receipts. Talk about your self-induced DoS attack :) -- gt [EMAIL PROTECTED] If someone tells you--- I have a sense of humor, but that's not funny. ---they don't. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 04:12:49PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:09, Pigeon wrote: [snip] What do you think of the Culture economy? All work is done by machines, which are designed to work properly and last for millennia - fully upgradeable, of course. So no-one has to worry about going hungry or any other physical need, or want. The Luddites never saw this far ahead. For all our technology, we're still Luddites today. That would be *the*worst* plan, as shown by the multiple generations of the same families on welfare. They have not bettered themselves. What exactly do you mean by bettered themselves? If you mean improved their financial situation, that doesn't apply to the Culture: everything is built and maintained by machines, which cater for people's physical requirements from food to spaceships without needing to be paid. Money, as a result, is extinct; rich and poor have become meaningless; everyone lives in luxury if they want to. There's a magic power source, of course; materials are supplied by space mining, as far as I can make out, by machines. If you mean educated themselves, personal motivation has a lot to do with it. People who are on welfare because they can't be arsed probably won't be arsed to educate themselves. Also, education tends to be expensive. And a lot of people are only too glad to get out of school, and hate the idea of anything resembling going back to it. But there are some people on welfare who use their time in intellectual pursuits, reading, learning. I doubt the proportion of people on welfare who educate themselves is very much different from the proportion of people in work who educate themselves (note: my definition of education here would include studying philosophy but exclude taking a course because people in the position you aspire to be promoted to are expected to have done it). - ie: much smaller than the proportion of people who spend their non-work time watching TV or going down the pub. I see the inside of a lot of people's houses when I repair their TVs and stuff. What are they all missing? Books... The Culture seems to repeat this pattern quite realistically. Also, look at the old money rich, who don't have to work. The Kennedys and the DuPonts aren't paragons of moral virtue... True. But look at a random selection of people you see on the news. Many of them are newsworthy precisely because of some transgression; most of them work. Indeed, their newsworthy transgression may well be something to do with their job (like that Barings bank bloke, or the nurses/doctors who knock patients off every now and then). I don't think the idea that people should be made to work to keep them out of mischief is very sound. The Culture has eliminated crime caused by physical want or envy by making luxury freely available to everyone. But that doesn't cover everything by a long chalk. In the Culture, the precepts of do as you would be done by and love your neighbour seem to have become as instinctive as don't piss in the street. How this has been achieved is a matter of speculation. I think it is probably the major weakness of the scenario. Pigeon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:55:44 -0600, Brooks R. Robinson wrote: | How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while | 33 million US citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. The ideology of capitalism puts people with money into power. Benevolent as the may want to be, power corrupts, and they are corrupted by power. From this point of view, the impoverished only have themselves to blame. The impoverished should go get jobs or an education, then jobs. It does not occur to those in power to aid in education, but to cut it. Those in power are, to a certain extent, educated and no longer require education. It's their money and they can spend it how they choose (after all it is capitalism). There are potential economies of scale and new opportunities to make money to be had from space. What better way than to get to those potentials than by getting your government (which you control) to pay you to get to do it! Space shuttles are expensive and you can share the burden with your fellow man. I can suck those tax dollars into my own coffers and still get the space research I desire. It's a win win situation. As hard as they try, putting a socialist blanket over capitalism will never work. There will be class warfare sooner or later, the question is when. The only thing those of us stuck somewhere in the middle can hope for, is that the research paid for by our government accidentally stumbles upon that magic energy formula, bringing us into the Stak Trek economy. Really, I always thought it was the communists that ushered us into the Space Age ;-). The US space program was an attempt to blunt the impact of Sputnik. With the Soviets out of the picture, I believe the fastest way to get bipartisan support for a manned mission to Mars is to convince the politicians that the mainland Chinese are going to get there first. [1]http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/china_manned_030102.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the fastest way to get bipartisan support for a manned mission to Mars is to convince the politicians that the mainland Chinese are going to get there first. Thus giving new meaning to the idea that Mars is red... Craig msg28797/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 11:35:20PM -0500, David P James wrote: Brooks R. Robinson wrote: The only thing those of us stuck somewhere in the middle can hope for, is that the research paid for by our government accidentally stumbles upon that magic energy formula, bringing us into the Stak Trek economy. You do realize that a Star Trek economy is not really possible? I like Star Trek as much as the next geek but they really got that aspect wrong. They can get away with it aboard the Enterprise because it is a military ship and the chain of command determines how things get done. But there is scant attention paid to how the rest of the civilian, free and democratic Federation functions. Who builds all these ships? Why? Why not something else? Where do the materials come from? All ignored, because it can't work. What do you think of the Culture economy? All work is done by machines, which are designed to work properly and last for millennia - fully upgradeable, of course. So no-one has to worry about going hungry or any other physical need, or want. The Luddites never saw this far ahead. For all our technology, we're still Luddites today. Pigeon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 11:39, Craig Dickson wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the fastest way to get bipartisan support for a manned mission to Mars is to convince the politicians that the mainland Chinese are going to get there first. Thus giving new meaning to the idea that Mars is red... And dusty! http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_storm_update_011011.html http://www.gluckman.com/ChinaDesert.html http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/29/china.desert/ -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://members.cox.net/ ron.l.johnson | || | For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start| | with, and becoming increasingly difficult to be produc- | | tive as time went on, and if something went wrong very| | difficult to fix, compared to linux's large over head | | setting up and learning the system with ease of use and | | the increase in productivity becoming larger the longer I | | use the system. | | Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands | ++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:09, Pigeon wrote: On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 11:35:20PM -0500, David P James wrote: Brooks R. Robinson wrote: [snip] What do you think of the Culture economy? All work is done by machines, which are designed to work properly and last for millennia - fully upgradeable, of course. So no-one has to worry about going hungry or any other physical need, or want. The Luddites never saw this far ahead. For all our technology, we're still Luddites today. That would be *the*worst* plan, as shown by the multiple generations of the same families on welfare. They have not bettered themselves. Also, look at the old money rich, who don't have to work. The Kennedys and the DuPonts aren't paragons of moral virtue... -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://members.cox.net/ ron.l.johnson | || | For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start| | with, and becoming increasingly difficult to be produc- | | tive as time went on, and if something went wrong very| | difficult to fix, compared to linux's large over head | | setting up and learning the system with ease of use and | | the increase in productivity becoming larger the longer I | | use the system. | | Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands | ++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +1100, Joyce, Matthew wrote: Guys...it's a bit sad when some very brave people died in Columbia to be talking stuff like this...i agree with Vincent that comments like this are not necessary. Spare a moments thought (or longer if possible) for those brave Astronauts and their families who will no doubt endure a lot of pain for a long time at their loss. I feel sorry for their families, kinda hard to feel sorry for astronauts. Put yourself in their place when the thing started to fall to bits around them... As for bravery, no I don't think they are brave either. Nurses and doctors are brave, firemen are brave. Interesting example. It requires bravery to carry out such a risky procedure as performing open heart surgery on someone. It also requires bravery to submit to it, even when you know you'll probably die quite soon without surgery. It requires more bravery to submit to some other procedure of similar risk, when you have every expectation of a long and healthy life if you back out. Some chap on the news pointed out that the risk of death from open heart surgery and a shuttle flight is about the same. The astronauts, I'm sure, were much more aware of the risks than the average open heart surgery patient. I wonder how long before US media call the astronauts heros (which they are not). How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. I suspect it's because very few of the politicians have ever wondered where they were going to get their next meal from and where would be a sheltered spot to sleep the night. Pigeon (Apologies to the one or two anti-OT posters, but I must wonder: when you're at work, or whatever your serious time is, do you spend 100% of the time working, or do you talk to other people about stuff in the news that you have a strong emotional response to?) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
| How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US | citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. The ideology of capitalism puts people with money into power. Benevolent as the may want to be, power corrupts, and they are corrupted by power. From this point of view, the impoverished only have themselves to blame. The impoverished should go get jobs or an education, then jobs. It does not occur to those in power to aid in education, but to cut it. Those in power are, to a certain extent, educated and no longer require education. It's their money and they can spend it how they choose (after all it is capitalism). There are potential economies of scale and new opportunities to make money to be had from space. What better way than to get to those potentials than by getting your government (which you control) to pay you to get to do it! Space shuttles are expensive and you can share the burden with your fellow man. I can suck those tax dollars into my own coffers and still get the space research I desire. It's a win win situation. As hard as they try, putting a socialist blanket over capitalism will never work. There will be class warfare sooner or later, the question is when. The only thing those of us stuck somewhere in the middle can hope for, is that the research paid for by our government accidentally stumbles upon that magic energy formula, bringing us into the Stak Trek economy. Randomly ranting, Brooks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
Our Father, who art in Redmond Bill be thy name. Should Windows 95 come, Thy Word be run On Earth as it is in Redmond. Give us this day our Conventional Memory And forgive us our GPFs As we forgive those GPFs that crash our systems And leave us not at the Blue Screen of Death. For thine is the BASIC, the DOS and the Windows, For ever and NT Press any key to continue... -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] That has got to be one of the funniest things I have read in a while!!! Barry deFreese NTS Technology Services Manager Nike Team Sports (949)-616-4005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technology doesn't make you less stupid; it just makes you stupid faster. Jerry Gregoire - Former CIO at Dell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Brooks R. Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US | citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. As hard as they try, putting a socialist blanket over capitalism will never work. AFAIK, many European countries have been doing that for some time now. Their citizens have a relatively high purchasing power, yet they still have relatively successful and extensive social programs. The ideology that there must be something wrong with you if you don't make enough money to, not only feed yourself and your family, but also purchase a large house on a large tract of land and at least two cars is almost exclusively American. Of course, like most things American, it's been spreading like a pleague. Not to say that Europe is a utopian society and the US should emulate it to the farthest extent possible, but the current trend of being as exactly oposite as possible is counter-productive, IMHO. There definitely are some things to be learned from the European model. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 12:02, deFreese, Barry wrote: Our Father, who art in Redmond Bill be thy name. Should Windows 95 come, Thy Word be run On Earth as it is in Redmond. Give us this day our Conventional Memory And forgive us our GPFs As we forgive those GPFs that crash our systems And leave us not at the Blue Screen of Death. For thine is the BASIC, the DOS and the Windows, For ever and NT Press any key to continue... -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] That has got to be one of the funniest things I have read in a while!!! Barry deFreese NTS Technology Services Manager Nike Team Sports (949)-616-4005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technology doesn't make you less stupid; it just makes you stupid faster. Jerry Gregoire - Former CIO at Dell I was afraid it might be too dated - I wrote it when I heard the rumour, and shared it with three or four people. One emailed it on to a few friends, and it did work its way around the Internet for a stretch. All that said, isn't Press any key to continue... the equivalent to finishing a prayer or incantation to a computer to accomplish a task? -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: columbia -- what really happened
(sigh) We're drifting farther and farther off-topic here, but what the hell... Brooks R. Robinson wrote: | How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US | citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. Actually, the answer to this one is quite simple. There are lots of things in the world that are worth doing. Trying to help the poor is one. Exploring space is another. You can't run a society by focusing all resources on the one thing that somebody thinks is most important, and neglecting all the others. Furthermore, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the economic definition of poverty is simply the standard of living of the poorest 15% of the people. Given that the USA has more than 200 million people, this implies that 30 million or so of those people are in poverty BY DEFINITION, no matter what their standard of living is actually like. Also consider that the standard of living of most poor people in the USA is better in many ways than the standard of living of _most_people_ just a century ago. Those that aren't actually living in the streets typically have running water, electricity, and at least some access to modern medical care by way of free clinics, if not employer-provided health insurance. They aren't well-off compared to the average citizen, but the typical poor person in the USA is bloody rich compared to the average citizen of many other countries. The ideology of capitalism puts people with money into power. No, money is one form of power. The rich always have more influence than the poor. This is as true in communist countries as it is anywhere else. The difference is that in communist countries, one becomes rich by playing the Communist Party game well rather than by doing anything worthwhile, like manipulating the stock market, cheating the elderly out of their life savings, or raping third-world countries (sorry, my cynicism is showing). Benevolent as they may want to be, power corrupts, and they are corrupted by power. Power can be corruptive, but I don't think most politicians need power to become corrupt. They usually started out pretty corrupt. This applies as much to the Maxine Waters/Barbara Boxer liberals as to the Henry Hyde/Trent Lott conservatives. If you think _any_ politician, from the far left through the center to the far right, has your best interests at heart, you're a fool. People who want political power are almost always the last people who should actually have it. From this point of view, the impoverished only have themselves to blame. The impoverished should go get jobs or an education, then jobs. I _almost_ agree with this. People start out in widely varying circumstances; some come from rich families and have all sorts of privileges available to them, while others are impoverished and lacking opportunities, and most are somewhere between those extremes. I am in favor of effective programs, both government-funded and otherwise, that make opportunities available to those who lack them. Given such programs, if you remain poor and uneducated, it's not for lack of opportunity, but lack of the initiative and/or persistence to do something with those opportunities, or some other basic life problem that prevents you from functioning in society. However, the kinds of programs I would like to see aren't necessarily available today, certainly not everywhere, and where they do exist, they aren't always run well and aren't necessarily targeting the people who really need them. Of course, from the kind of far-left perspective you seem to be coming from, such programs would be a disaster, because they would lead the poor into becoming just another bunch of aspiring capitalists, not the kind of proletarian revolutionaries you seem to want. Having poor people join the capitalist middle class does not in any way lead to a socialist worker's paradise. So as a good little leftist, you ought to be against anything that would improve the lot of the poor in a capitalist country, because the more miserable and downtrodden they are, the more likely they'll join the revolution. Oddly enough, that explains quite a lot about the policies favored by the typical leftist... Craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
the hell... Brooks R. Robinson wrote: | How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 | million US citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. [ ... ] [ ... ] Having poor people join the capitalist middle class does not in any way lead to a socialist worker's paradise. So as a good little leftist, you ought to be against anything that would improve the lot of the poor in a capitalist country, because the more miserable and downtrodden they are, the more likely they'll join the revolution. [ ... ] Yes, all this is indeed OT, despite how interesting it is. I can tell that we're getting very close to the point where Hitler is going to be mentioned, so that we can then put Godwin's law into effect. Oh! ... I already mentioned him. OOPS ... -- Lloyd Zusman [EMAIL PROTECTED] God bless you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
I was afraid it might be too dated - I wrote it when I heard the rumour, and shared it with three or four people. One emailed it on to a few friends, and it did work its way around the Internet for a stretch. All that said, isn't Press any key to continue... the equivalent to finishing a prayer or incantation to a computer to accomplish a task? -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Amen brother!! :-) Barry deFreese NTS Technology Services Manager Nike Team Sports (949)-616-4005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technology doesn't make you less stupid; it just makes you stupid faster. Jerry Gregoire - Former CIO at Dell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
DvB wrote: AFAIK, many European countries have been doing that for some time now. Their citizens have a relatively high purchasing power, yet they still have relatively successful and extensive social programs. The ideology that there must be something wrong with you if you don't make enough money to, not only feed yourself and your family, but also purchase a large house on a large tract of land and at least two cars is almost exclusively American. Of course, like most things American, it's been spreading like a pleague. Not to say that Europe is a utopian society and the US should emulate it to the farthest extent possible, but the current trend of being as exactly oposite as possible is counter-productive, IMHO. There definitely are some things to be learned from the European model. why do I get the impression that some people on this list forget that Debian is an international project ? This whole thread seems to be treating the rest of the world like some distant scenery. and BTW Europe is made up of lots of countries, there is more than one model ! -- Sean London England -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 01:02, Joyce, Matthew wrote: Guys...it's a bit sad when some very brave people died in Columbia to be talking stuff like this...i agree with Vincent that comments like this are not necessary. Spare a moments thought (or longer if possible) for those brave Astronauts and their families who will no doubt endure a lot of pain for a long time at their loss. I feel sorry for their families, kinda hard to feel sorry for astronauts. As for bravery, no I don't think they are brave either. You've *got* to be kidding, right? -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://members.cox.net/ ron.l.johnson | || | For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start| | with, and becoming increasingly difficult to be produc- | | tive as time went on, and if something went wrong very| | difficult to fix, compared to linux's large over head | | setting up and learning the system with ease of use and | | the increase in productivity becoming larger the longer I | | use the system. | | Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands | ++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Sean Burlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DvB wrote: AFAIK, many European countries have been doing that for some time now. Their citizens have a relatively high purchasing power, yet they still have relatively successful and extensive social programs. The ideology that there must be something wrong with you if you don't make enough money to, not only feed yourself and your family, but also purchase a large house on a large tract of land and at least two cars is almost exclusively American. Of course, like most things American, it's been spreading like a pleague. Not to say that Europe is a utopian society and the US should emulate it to the farthest extent possible, but the current trend of being as exactly oposite as possible is counter-productive, IMHO. There definitely are some things to be learned from the European model. why do I get the impression that some people on this list forget that Debian is an international project ? This whole thread seems to be treating the rest of the world like some distant scenery. and BTW Europe is made up of lots of countries, there is more than one model ! Sorry about that. I'm aware that many, if not most, people on d-u aren't from the US, but I had a sudden urge to rant and, since I live in the US, had no choice but to do so from a USian perspective ;-) As you say, there are many individual European nations and they're not all the same but, compared the the US, they're more alike than they are different, hence my use of the term Europen model. I digress :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
-Original Message- From: Sean Burlington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:45 AM To: DvB Cc: Debian-User Subject: Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened) This whole thread seems to be treating the rest of the world like some distant scenery. From any given point on the world, the rest of the world _is_ distant scenery. For futher discussion, see Here vs. There, and Small or Far Away: A Case Study. Can we please let all these Columbia/capitalism/America (sucks/rules) threads just die now? Please? I'm all in favor of ranting and discussion but this just isn't the place. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
This whole thread seems to be treating the rest of the world like some distant scenery. From any given point on the world, the rest of the world _is_ distant scenery. For futher discussion, see Here vs. There, and Small or Far Away: A Case Study. Depending on countries, people are more or less open to the rest of the world. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Charlie Reiman wrote: -Original Message- From: Sean Burlington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:45 AM To: DvB Cc: Debian-User Subject: Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened) This whole thread seems to be treating the rest of the world like some distant scenery. From any given point on the world, the rest of the world _is_ distant scenery. For futher discussion, see Here vs. There, and Small or Far Away: A Case Study. this list isn't on *any* given point on the world (or rather it is on lots of points). get some perspective - see the world ;) Can we please let all these Columbia/capitalism/America (sucks/rules) threads just die now? Please? I'm all in favor of ranting and discussion but this just isn't the place. sure - just someone you disagree with have the last word ;))) -- Sean -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened)
Why is this on this mailing list again? -Jack - Original Message - From: Sean Burlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Debian-User [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened) Charlie Reiman wrote: -Original Message- From: Sean Burlington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:45 AM To: DvB Cc: Debian-User Subject: Re: [OT] Capitalism (was Re: columbia -- what really happened) This whole thread seems to be treating the rest of the world like some distant scenery. From any given point on the world, the rest of the world _is_ distant scenery. For futher discussion, see Here vs. There, and Small or Far Away: A Case Study. this list isn't on *any* given point on the world (or rather it is on lots of points). get some perspective - see the world ;) Can we please let all these Columbia/capitalism/America (sucks/rules) threads just die now? Please? I'm all in favor of ranting and discussion but this just isn't the place. sure - just someone you disagree with have the last word ;))) -- Sean -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +1100, Joyce, Matthew wrote: Guys...it's a bit sad when some very brave people died in Columbia to be talking stuff like this...i agree with Vincent that comments like this are not necessary. Spare a moments thought (or longer if possible) for those brave Astronauts and their families who will no doubt endure a lot of pain for a long time at their loss. I feel sorry for their families, kinda hard to feel sorry for astronauts. As for bravery, no I don't think they are brave either. Why not? There's always a chance that the shuttle will blow up at some point (Challenger and Columbia), start leaking somewhere, get hit by something, etc.-- they knew the risks and took them anyway. Unless you're implying that they *didn't* know the risks? How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. What does one have to do with the other? There will always be poor people-- maybe not the same people all the time, but a certain percentage will always be poor. There always have been-- some people are either lazy or just unlucky. I'm not happy about that fact, but that's life, you know? BTW, where did you pull that number from? OTOH, space exploration and research improves everyone's lives-- new medicines and medical techniques, etc. So how is it a waste? How is it anymore of a waste than welfare and socialized medicine? Not trying to start a flame war, just asking a serious question here-- welfare just rewards people for being lazy and not working, in my experience. Believe me, I knew a lot of kids in school who *aspired* to 'being like my parents' or 'being like [best friend's] parents' and being paid to sit around at home all day and have fun, collecting welfare. *sigh* Personally, I feel sorry for the families and friends of the astronauts, and I feel sorry for the astronauts. BUT, I hope that NASA doesn't do what they did after the Challenger and just sit around for years out of (unnecessary) fear. *sigh* Anyway, that's my opinion, FWIW. *shrug* -- Vikki RoemerHomepage: http://www.2khiway.net/users/vroemer Registered Linux user #2880021 http://counter.li.org/ Just because you're not paranoid, that doesn't mean they're not out to get you. (ripped from someone's slashdot .sig) PGP fingerprint: 0A3E 0AE4 CCD9 FF31 B4BB C859 2DE1 B1D8 5CE0 1578 Keyserver: http://pgp.mit.edu/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GAT d-(?) s: a--- C(++) UL P+ L+++ E W++ N+ o? K- w--() O? M? V?(-) PS+(+++) PE(++) Y+ PGP++ t+@ 5 X-() R*(?) tv-- b+++(++) DI+ D--(?) G e-(*)+ h! r-- x? --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- msg28663/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 08:18:42PM -0500, Vikki Roemer wrote: I feel sorry for their families, kinda hard to feel sorry for astronauts. As for bravery, no I don't think they are brave either. Why not? There's always a chance that the shuttle will blow up at some point (Challenger and Columbia), start leaking somewhere, get hit by something, etc.-- they knew the risks and took them anyway. Unless you're implying that they *didn't* know the risks? I totally agree with you. Even after Challenger, astronauts wanted to know when they could next go up. The threat of death haden't dampened their thirst for knowledge and exploration. I call that pretty damn brave. -- Don Werve [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Unix System Administrator) Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 20:18, Vikki Roemer wrote: I feel sorry for their families, kinda hard to feel sorry for astronauts. As for bravery, no I don't think they are brave either. Why not? There's always a chance that the shuttle will blow up at some point (Challenger and Columbia), start leaking somewhere, get Come on folks, please. Enough is enough. Take it off the list, wouldja? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Vikki Roemer wrote: On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +1100, Joyce, Matthew wrote: ... OTOH, space exploration and research improves everyone's lives-- new medicines and medical techniques, etc. So how is it a waste? How is it anymore of a waste than welfare and socialized medicine? Not trying to start a flame war, just asking a serious question here-- welfare just rewards people for being lazy and not working, in my experience. Believe me, I knew a lot of kids in school who *aspired* to 'being like my parents' or 'being like [best friend's] parents' and being paid to sit around at home all day and have fun, collecting welfare. *sigh* IMHO, space work should be only unmanned satellite launches, with all the saved money used on more fusion power programs. Space exploration should proceed after making a viable source of long lasting fusion power. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 19:49, Russell wrote: Vikki Roemer wrote: On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 06:02:21PM +1100, Joyce, Matthew wrote: ... OTOH, space exploration and research improves everyone's lives-- new medicines and medical techniques, etc. So how is it a waste? How is it anymore of a waste than welfare and socialized medicine? Not trying to start a flame war, just asking a serious question here-- welfare just rewards people for being lazy and not working, in my experience. Believe me, I knew a lot of kids in school who *aspired* to 'being like my parents' or 'being like [best friend's] parents' and being paid to sit around at home all day and have fun, collecting welfare. *sigh* If anyone wonders why Republicans (and Regan Democrats) get so angry with the goverment, this is it... IMHO, space work should be only unmanned satellite launches, with all the saved money used on more fusion power programs. Space exploration should proceed after making a viable source of long lasting fusion power. You are The Man! Although I think it shouldn't just be fusion power, since fusion generators might not be able to be made small enough or clean enough for ships take off and land. The concept of H-bombs and pusher plates for deep space travel sounds pretty cool, though. The only problems are developing a strong- enough pusher plate, and withstanding the incredible bursts of accel- eration... -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://members.cox.net/ ron.l.johnson | || | For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start| | with, and becoming increasingly difficult to be produc- | | tive as time went on, and if something went wrong very| | difficult to fix, compared to linux's large over head | | setting up and learning the system with ease of use and | | the increase in productivity becoming larger the longer I | | use the system. | | Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands | ++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Brooks R. Robinson wrote: | How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US | citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. The ideology of capitalism puts people with money into power. Benevolent as the may want to be, power corrupts, and they are corrupted by power. From this point of view, the impoverished only have themselves to blame. The impoverished should go get jobs or an education, then jobs. It does not occur to those in power to aid in education, but to cut it. Those in power are, to a certain extent, educated and no longer require education. It's their money and they can spend it how they choose (after all it is capitalism). There are potential economies of scale and new opportunities to make money to be had from space. What better way than to get to those potentials than by getting your government (which you control) to pay you to get to do it! Space shuttles are expensive and you can share the burden with your fellow man. I can suck those tax dollars into my own coffers and still get the space research I desire. It's a win win situation. Why oh why do I have to put up with nonsense like this? Why is it that otherwise intelligent people seem to fall into making these kinds of tirades? I see and hear it on campus and now I see it cropping up here. You are making a classic mistake and equating capitalism with corporatism. Wealth is created according to the capitalist ideology you're so fond of trashing through the saving of a part of the income and investing it; both individuals and firms can engage in this wealth creation through capital accumulation. Corporatism on the other hand is essentially a method of transfering existing wealth through the power of the state. At present, corporations, unions and NGOs, not to mention lawyers, all engage in this kind of shakedown of the taxpayer (I don't mean all corps, unions or NGOs, but a fair number -- Debian and other GNU organizations for example don't and I hope they never do as the corruption goes both ways). In centuries past it was the church (the original corporation) that was the main beneficiary. It is for this reason that most bone fide capitalist ideologues like to see state power and freedom of action reduced because if the state has no power to transfer wealth around then vested and monied interests will have little or no incentive to control and corrupt it. As hard as they try, putting a socialist blanket over capitalism will never work. There will be class warfare sooner or later, the question is when. The only thing those of us stuck somewhere in the middle can hope for, is that the research paid for by our government accidentally stumbles upon that magic energy formula, bringing us into the Stak Trek economy. You do realize that a Star Trek economy is not really possible? I like Star Trek as much as the next geek but they really got that aspect wrong. They can get away with it aboard the Enterprise because it is a military ship and the chain of command determines how things get done. But there is scant attention paid to how the rest of the civilian, free and democratic Federation functions. Who builds all these ships? Why? Why not something else? Where do the materials come from? All ignored, because it can't work. Randomly ranting, All too apparent -- David P. James 4th Year Economics Student Queen's University Kingston, Ontario http://members.rogers.com/dpjames/ The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe. -Dr. Leonard McCoy, Star Trek IV -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Narins, Josh wrote: Um, Bush believes in Creationism, not Science. He's said so himself. And there was Reagan, with his astrologers. Is it any wonder space ships fall from the sky when these guys were in charge? Rockets don't stay up on faith. Of course the 1.9% budget cuts for the program had nothing to do with it. Trickle down means that 1.9% less is more. Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. I fail to see the relationship between 'creationism', 'astrologers', and the space shuttle. - Bobman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Are republican bashers really so bored that they have to post crap like this in a debian mail list. Download some friends and tell them your propoganda. Try opening up a live journal, then you can still hear your self type without annoying others On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 12:07, Bob Paige wrote: Narins, Josh wrote: Um, Bush believes in Creationism, not Science. He's said so himself. And there was Reagan, with his astrologers. Is it any wonder space ships fall from the sky when these guys were in charge? Rockets don't stay up on faith. Of course the 1.9% budget cuts for the program had nothing to do with it. Trickle down means that 1.9% less is more. Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. I fail to see the relationship between 'creationism', 'astrologers', and the space shuttle. - Bobman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
also sprach karrottop [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003.02.03.2003 +0100]: Are republican bashers really so bored that they have to post crap like this in a debian mail list. Download some friends and tell them your propoganda. Try opening up a live journal, then you can still hear your self type without annoying others Just ignore these types, they are not worth the attention. Instead, go here: http://www.netaxs.com/~jeffc/how-fast-is-it.jpg -- Please do not CC me when replying to lists that I read! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer, admin, and user `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system NOTE: The pgp.net keyservers and their mirrors are broken! Get my key here: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/gpg/330c4a75.asc msg28338/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: columbia -- what really happened
AMEN. -- DM. On 03 Feb 2003 14:03:49 -0500 karrottop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---BeginMessage--- Are republican bashers really so bored that they have to post crap like this in a debian mail list. Download some friends and tell them your propoganda. Try opening up a live journal, then you can still hear your self type without annoying others On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 12:07, Bob Paige wrote: Narins, Josh wrote: Um, Bush believes in Creationism, not Science. He's said so himself. And there was Reagan, with his astrologers. Is it any wonder space ships fall from the sky when these guys were in charge? Rockets don't stay up on faith. Of course the 1.9% budget cuts for the program had nothing to do with it. Trickle down means that 1.9% less is more. Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. I fail to see the relationship between 'creationism', 'astrologers', and the space shuttle. - Bobman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---End Message---
Re: columbia -- what really happened
martin f krafft wrote: also sprach karrottop [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003.02.03.2003 +0100]: Are republican bashers really so bored that they have to post crap like this in a debian mail list. Download some friends and tell them your propoganda. Try opening up a live journal, then you can still hear your self type without annoying others Just ignore these types, they are not worth the attention. Instead, go here: http://www.netaxs.com/~jeffc/how-fast-is-it.jpg Yeah, now THERE's proof of the effectiveness of Republican leadership. No Democratic administration could EVER build a shuttle that goes THAT fast... Craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 14:11, Craig Dickson wrote: martin f krafft wrote: also sprach karrottop [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003.02.03.2003 +0100]: Are republican bashers really so bored that they have to post crap like this in a debian mail list. Download some friends and tell them your propoganda. Try opening up a live journal, then you can still hear your self type without annoying others Just ignore these types, they are not worth the attention. Instead, go here: http://www.netaxs.com/~jeffc/how-fast-is-it.jpg Yeah, now THERE's proof of the effectiveness of Republican leadership. No Democratic administration could EVER build a shuttle that goes THAT fast... Unfortunately, it's just proof that so many in the media are tres' clueless. -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr. Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://members.cox.net/ ron.l.johnson | || | For me and windows it became a matter of easy to start| | with, and becoming increasingly difficult to be produc- | | tive as time went on, and if something went wrong very| | difficult to fix, compared to linux's large over head | | setting up and learning the system with ease of use and | | the increase in productivity becoming larger the longer I | | use the system. | | Rohan Nicholls , The Netherlands | ++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
-Original Message- From: Bob Paige [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday 3 February 2003 18:06 To: Narins, Josh Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: columbia -- what really happened Narins, Josh wrote: Um, Bush believes in Creationism, not Science. He's said so himself. And there was Reagan, with his astrologers. Is it any wonder space ships fall from the sky when these guys were in charge? Rockets don't stay up on faith. Of course the 1.9% budget cuts for the program had nothing to do with it. Trickle down means that 1.9% less is more. Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. I fail to see the relationship between 'creationism', 'astrologers', and the space shuttle. - Bobman I personnally fail to see the relationship between this thread and this mailing list. Vincent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened (OT)
Ron Johnson wrote: ... Unfortunately, it's just proof that so many in the media are tres' clueless. Don't say that--too many of us(we?) Americans are monolingual. :-) Daniel -- Daniel Barclay [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
Guys...it's a bit sad when some very brave people died in Columbia to be talking stuff like this...i agree with Vincent that comments like this are not necessary. Spare a moments thought (or longer if possible) for those brave Astronauts and their families who will no doubt endure a lot of pain for a long time at their loss. Dave -Original Message- From: DEFFONTAINES Vincent To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Pastern Sent: 2/3/03 4:27 AM Subject: RE: columbia -- what really happened -Original Message- From: Bob Paige [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday 3 February 2003 18:06 To: Narins, Josh Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: columbia -- what really happened Narins, Josh wrote: Um, Bush believes in Creationism, not Science. He's said so himself. And there was Reagan, with his astrologers. Is it any wonder space ships fall from the sky when these guys were in charge? Rockets don't stay up on faith. Of course the 1.9% budget cuts for the program had nothing to do with it. Trickle down means that 1.9% less is more. Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. I fail to see the relationship between 'creationism', 'astrologers', and the space shuttle. - Bobman I personnally fail to see the relationship between this thread and this mailing list. Vincent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 11:22:44AM -0500, Narins, Josh wrote: Rockets don't stay up on faith. Oh yes they do... see Matthew 17:20 (apt-get install bible) Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. Even I don't think he's *quite* this stupid... Pigeon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. This is the freedom that Bush likes so much... But is this only Bush's freedom or is it freedom of the whole world? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Pigeon wrote: On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 11:22:44AM -0500, Narins, Josh wrote: Rockets don't stay up on faith. Oh yes they do... see Matthew 17:20 Faith moves mountains? Okay. Show me. Just use faith, no explosives or earth-moving equipment. You can't? What a surprise. Craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Monday 03 February 2003 05:25 pm, Peppe wrote: Bush has given Saddam two weeks to prove he had nothing to do with the Shuttle disaster, or he will nuke them back to the Stone Age. This is the freedom that Bush likes so much... But is this only Bush's freedom or is it freedom of the whole world? As an American, I have the following comments in response: 1) Bush has shown, quite clearly, that he does not care about being a good neighbor and only cares about the rest of the world when he needs their help. (Why do you think he jumps on other countries for breaking treaties, but rationalizes breaking or backing out of any treaty he doesn't like?) 2) I find it hard to believe that even Dub-ya is this stupid. The only way ANYONE can prove they were not involved with something like this is to prove what happened. It'll take weeks or months for NASA and other groups to figure this out. 3) Please, all those in other countries, do not hold Dub-ya up as an example, or an American ideal. Far less than 1/2 of elegible voters voted him into office. Unfortunately, for this term of office, we have the best government money can buy. I wish I had the authority to apologize to the rest of the world for the things this current adminstration is doing and not doing in terms of international cooperation. Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 19:03, Colin Watson wrote: On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 03:39:09PM -0800, Craig Dickson wrote: Pigeon wrote: On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 11:22:44AM -0500, Narins, Josh wrote: Rockets don't stay up on faith. Oh yes they do... see Matthew 17:20 Faith moves mountains? Okay. Show me. Just use faith, no explosives or earth-moving equipment. You can't? What a surprise. Please, both of you, we can do without The Great God Debate on debian-user ... if you don't agree with somebody else's religious beliefs, just ignore it or take it to private mail. Thanks, -- Colin Watson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From 1994 or '95, when the rumour circulated that Microsoft wanted to buy THE Roman Catholic Church (Pope and all - thankfully the Bible is out of copyright protection): Our Father, who art in Redmond Bill be thy name. Should Windows 95 come, Thy Word be run On Earth as it is in Redmond. Give us this day our Conventional Memory And forgive us our GPFs As we forgive those GPFs that crash our systems And leave us not at the Blue Screen of Death. For thine is the BASIC, the DOS and the Windows, For ever and NT Press any key to continue... And may that conclude the reading of the debate about responsibility regarding the loss of the Columbia and those pioneers that sought to contribute to the collective wealth of knowledge, and hope, by their bravery and dedication to their fellow humans. May it also acknowledge that this is a venue for the addressing of questions and problems people encounter on occasion in the installation, configuration, and upkeep of Debian GNU/Linux. It is also for some mutual advocacy of Debian and of one another in our use of Debian GNU/Linux. There is almost certainly numerous discussion forums now available for debating aspects of Columbia, political support and decisions around it, religion and such matters - please peruse such topics in the appropriate environments. -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 12:03:26AM +, Colin Watson wrote: Please, both of you, we can do without The Great God Debate on debian-user ... if you don't agree with somebody else's religious beliefs, just ignore it or take it to private mail. Thanks, -- Colin Watson [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sorry. Pigeon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 3) Please, all those in other countries, do not hold Dub-ya up as an example, or an American ideal. Far less than 1/2 of elegible voters voted him into office. Considering only about 40% of all eligible voters in the US actually casted votes, that's not very surprising... -- My secret to happiness... is that I have a heart of a 12-year-old boy. It's over here in a jar. Would you like to see it? msg28479/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Tuesday 04 February 2003 01:05 am, Brian Nelson wrote: Hal Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 3) Please, all those in other countries, do not hold Dub-ya up as an example, or an American ideal. Far less than 1/2 of elegible voters voted him into office. Considering only about 40% of all eligible voters in the US actually casted votes, that's not very surprising... I wasn't going to go into those numbers, but that's true. And considering that he lost the popular vote, even allowing leeway for rounding off, this guy got into office with less than a quarter of all eligible voters actually voting for him. I hate to say this, because I don't like Bush, don't trust him (this is the guy who isn't sure if he's going into Iran, but the Washington post has sources that say he made up his mind last summer), but any country with that low a turnout deserves whatever idiot running the country that they get. Hal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: columbia -- what really happened
Guys...it's a bit sad when some very brave people died in Columbia to be talking stuff like this...i agree with Vincent that comments like this are not necessary. Spare a moments thought (or longer if possible) for those brave Astronauts and their families who will no doubt endure a lot of pain for a long time at their loss. I feel sorry for their families, kinda hard to feel sorry for astronauts. As for bravery, no I don't think they are brave either. Nurses and doctors are brave, firemen are brave. I wonder how long before US media call the astronauts heros (which they are not). How the US can justify spending so much money on Space while 33 million US citizens live below the poverty line amazes me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Jeremy Gaddis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2709875.stm: [snip] To test the technology the Columbia space shuttle was fitted with an embedded PC that has a 233 MHz processor, 128 MB of RAM and a solid-state 144 MB hard drive. The computer is running Red Hat, a version of the Linux operating system, and is maintaining a connection with the Goddard Space Flight Center which will try to contact the onboard PC more than 140 times over the duration of the shuttle mission STS-107. [snip] hmm, space shuttle running redhat. that explains everything. Actually, I kind of figured God meant Lance Bass to be on the shuttle, except he wasn't. Maybe now death will be after him (Final Destination 3. Are you N' Sync with fate?). Don't mean to make light of what happened, just a little humour. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
Jeremy Gaddis wrote: hmm, space shuttle running redhat. that explains everything. Even if it had been running Windows XP, a remark like that is in outrageously poor taste. Craig msg28107/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Craig Dickson wrote: hmm, space shuttle running redhat. that explains everything. Even if it had been running Windows XP, a remark like that is in outrageously poor taste. oh, got that one covered too: http://www.gaddis.org/what_really_happened.jpg j. -- Jeremy Gaddis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gaddis.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: columbia -- what really happened
On Sunday 02 February 2003 12:11, Jeremy Gaddis wrote: To test the technology the Columbia space shuttle was fitted with an embedded PC that has a 233 MHz processor, 128 MB of RAM and a solid-state 144 MB hard drive. The computer is running Red Hat, a version of the Linux operating system, and is maintaining a connection with the Goddard Space Flight Center which will try to contact the onboard PC more than 140 times over the duration of the shuttle mission STS-107. hmm, space shuttle running redhat. that explains everything. We are debian lovers. We surely will say, well, it was RedHat, that explains everything, but other's outside the community might say well it was Linux, that explains everything. I can see M$ ads, claiming that How the use of Linux led to the death of 7 bright civilianz Cheers -- Dismiss the weak and inferior, embrace the Evil and Possess your Box before the beast that has been unleashed upon you -UNDEAD EvilEntity Linux Aryan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
