Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread richard
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:18:11 +0100
Claudius Hubig nfs_2...@chubig.net wrote:

 Hello richard,
 
 richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
 You end up filling in a form sending it off , only to get an answer the form
 was blank.
 Always worth checking a file exported as a pdf, is what you think you want.
 Xpdf tells the truth, but its only a reader.
 
 You can try printing the filled-in form as PDF from within Evince and
 send the printout.
 
 Best regards,
 
 Claudius

The only problem with that is hen it reaches its destination it has to be
scanned and stored, and it means using snail mail. Much easier for both ends to
be able to attach to an e-mail.

Richard


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread richard
on 14 Jan 2012 15:39:44 -0500
John A. Sullivan III jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com wrote:

 On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 20:10 +, richard wrote:
  On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:48:43 + (UTC)
  Curt cu...@free.fr wrote:
  
   On 2012-01-14, Siard shiems...@kpnplanet.nl wrote:
   
Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
   
   It is?
   
   
  
  Acroread both linux and win thing failed to save these forms, with an error
  Richard
  
  
 If form filling is what you are doing, that is very strange.  The form
 fill plugin has worked well for our clients as far as I know.  Is there
 any chance there is something wrong with the form? - John
 

There could be as the windows product could not do it :)
However after Finding Xournal and using that to create a template.
That had to be done as the sections of the form created by the originator
were shown blank when exported as a pdf. So each pre entered section of the
form had to be overwritten, which looked a mess, until exported as a pdf

What is even more maddening is I pulled down adobe reader 9.4.7 off the adobe
site, and that does fill in all the blanks as required, and it produces a title
bar to say the shaded areas can be edited/filled out.

If it was the form, what was used to create it ?, and is it a sign that
Adobe ,maybe, have introduced something which is not backwardly compatible with
earlier versions of reader, (acroread ).

What I now do, instead of trusting a pdf form has been completed correctly, is
post it to my self and read it with xpdf, And then if that looks OK send it to
where ever it was going in the first place.

Richard


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread Weaver

 On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:18:11 +0100
 Claudius Hubig nfs_2...@chubig.net wrote:

 Hello richard,

 richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
 You end up filling in a form sending it off , only to get an answer the
 form
 was blank.
 Always worth checking a file exported as a pdf, is what you think you
 want.
 Xpdf tells the truth, but its only a reader.

 You can try printing the filled-in form as PDF from within Evince and
 send the printout.

 Best regards,

 Claudius

 The only problem with that is hen it reaches its destination it has to be
 scanned and stored, and it means using snail mail. Much easier for both
 ends to
 be able to attach to an e-mail.

You can scan it back in at your end and attach it.
Regards,

Weaver.

-- 


Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.



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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread green
Weaver wrote at 2012-01-15 05:44 -0600:
 You can scan it back in at your end and attach it.

Or fill it out, print it to cups-pdf, then attach the resulting PDF.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread Claudius Hubig
richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:18:11 +0100
Claudius Hubig nfs_2...@chubig.net wrote:

 Hello richard,
 
 richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
 You end up filling in a form sending it off , only to get an answer the form
 was blank.
 Always worth checking a file exported as a pdf, is what you think you want.
 Xpdf tells the truth, but its only a reader.
 
 You can try printing the filled-in form as PDF from within Evince and
 send the printout.
  

The only problem with that is hen it reaches its destination it has to be
scanned and stored, and it means using snail mail. Much easier for both ends to
be able to attach to an e-mail.

I meant to say that you can print it into a PDF file (using cups-pdf)
and then send the printout, i. e. the resulting PDF file.

HTH,

Claudius
-- 
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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread Siard
Curt:
 Siard:
  Curt:
   Siard:
Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free
repository.
   
   It is?
 
  In Wheezy:
 
  $ apt-cache policy acroread
  acroread:
Installed: 9.4.6-0.1
...
http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ wheezy/non-free i386 Packages
...
   
 When I refer to non-free, I mean the official __debian__ non-free
 repository, which is what I thought you meant, and not a third-party
 repository, which is what you really meant.

Yes, I was not very accurate I'm afraid.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread Siard
Jude DaShiell wrote:
 can acroread and acroread-plugins work in a command line environment
 or is this strictly gui?

Not sure what you want. You can do a 'acroread filename.pdf', but
of course you will need X for a PDF viewer.

There are a few things you can do on the command line using acroread,
like converting a PDF to Postscript. It's mentioned in the manpage.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-15 Thread Joe Pfeiffer
Weaver wea...@riseup.net writes:

 On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:18:11 +0100
 Claudius Hubig nfs_2...@chubig.net wrote:

 Hello richard,

 richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
 You end up filling in a form sending it off , only to get an answer the
 form
 was blank.
 Always worth checking a file exported as a pdf, is what you think you
 want.
 Xpdf tells the truth, but its only a reader.

 You can try printing the filled-in form as PDF from within Evince and
 send the printout.

 Best regards,

 Claudius

 The only problem with that is hen it reaches its destination it has to be
 scanned and stored, and it means using snail mail. Much easier for both
 ends to
 be able to attach to an e-mail.

 You can scan it back in at your end and attach it.
 Regards,

This is another solution that loses all the document structure.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Siard
John A. Sullivan III wrote:
 This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.

I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat has
very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party plugins for
Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still rather limited.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread hvw59601

Siard wrote:

John A. Sullivan III wrote:

This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.


I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat has
very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party plugins for
Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still rather limited.




and http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?

Hugo


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 18:50 +0100, Siard wrote:
 John A. Sullivan III wrote:
  This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.
 
 I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat has
 very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party plugins for
 Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still rather limited.
 
 
That may not have been the original intent but don't tell that to real
world users.  The ability to edit PDFs is becoming a core desktop
function in many industries.  It's not the same as editing with a word
processor but heavy manipulation of the documents is common practice and
there is nothing in the Linux world that does it as well as Acrobat does
- John


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 12:01 -0600, hvw59601 wrote:
 Siard wrote:
  John A. Sullivan III wrote:
  This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.
  
  I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat has
  very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party plugins for
  Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still rather limited.
  
  
 
 and http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?
 
 Hugo
 
 
To be fair to Siard, that's really a different issue.  Form filling is
one thing, major manipulation of the original document is another.  Form
filling can be done quite easily with the Acrobat Reader for Linux
although it has its own host of bugs that have been ignored for years by
Adobe - John


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Andrew Winnenberg

On 01/13/2012 01:50 PM, richard wrote:

Greetings,


Is there any free app which can edit pdf files.
Evince looks like it does it, you can edit, send it as an attachment and read
it with another copy of evince and you can see the alterations.
Open it on a poxy winblos machine with acrobat or acroread, and the edited
sections are as the original.
xpdf also shows the original before editing..
help 

TIA

Richard




I've had good luck with Okular. At least, I haven't had any of the 
issues you describe above when taking the document to a Windows machine.


Andrew


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Camaleón
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 21:50:21 +, richard wrote:

 Is there any free app which can edit pdf files. 

(...)

PDFedit, but don't expect the same results/options/level of management 
that you would have with Acrobat Professional. When it comes to PDF 
edition software Adobe is nowadays the king of the hill.

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread John Hasler
Hugo writes:
 and http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?

Filling in blanks in forms created for the purpose is not editing to me
(though it is still misuse of the PDF format).
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Siard
hvw59601 wrote:
 Siard wrote:
  John A. Sullivan III wrote:
   This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.
  
  I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat
  has very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party
  plugins for Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still
  rather limited.
 
 and www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?

Those are PDFs with forms. On second thought, that's probably what OP
meant. But it wasn't understood as such by the other posters either.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread hvw59601

Siard wrote:

hvw59601 wrote:

Siard wrote:

John A. Sullivan III wrote:

This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.

I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat
has very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party
plugins for Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still
rather limited.

and www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?


Those are PDFs with forms. On second thought, that's probably what OP
meant. But it wasn't understood as such by the other posters either.




And I also misinterpreted OP's question. Sorry.

Hugo


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Siard
hvw59601:
 Siard wrote:
  hvw59601 wrote:
   and www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?
  
  Those are PDFs with forms. On second thought, that's probably what
  OP meant. But it wasn't understood as such by the other posters
  either.
 
 And I also misinterpreted OP's question. Sorry.

??  You're the only one that interpreted OP's question well.
Evince cannot edit a PDF the usual way, but it _can_ fill out PDF forms,
or at least it looks like it can.
So filling out PDF forms is what OP was referring to when talking about
'editing' PDFs.

Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
I have version 9.4.6, but odd enough it does not work.  ??


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Curt
On 2012-01-14, Siard shiems...@kpnplanet.nl wrote:

 Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.

It is?


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 20:44 +0100, Siard wrote:
 hvw59601:
  Siard wrote:
   hvw59601 wrote:
and www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?
   
   Those are PDFs with forms. On second thought, that's probably what
   OP meant. But it wasn't understood as such by the other posters
   either.
  
  And I also misinterpreted OP's question. Sorry.
 
 ??  You're the only one that interpreted OP's question well.
 Evince cannot edit a PDF the usual way, but it _can_ fill out PDF forms,
 or at least it looks like it can.
 So filling out PDF forms is what OP was referring to when talking about
 'editing' PDFs.
 
 Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
 I have version 9.4.6, but odd enough it does not work.  ??
 
 
Form filling is not in the base package.  I believe you need to install
the acroread-plugins for that to work - John


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread richard
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 20:44:14 +0100
Siard shiems...@kpnplanet.nl wrote:

 hvw59601:
  Siard wrote:
   hvw59601 wrote:
and www.irs.gov/formspubs/index.html ?
   
   Those are PDFs with forms. On second thought, that's probably what
   OP meant. But it wasn't understood as such by the other posters
   either.
  
  And I also misinterpreted OP's question. Sorry.
 
 ??  You're the only one that interpreted OP's question well.
 Evince cannot edit a PDF the usual way, but it _can_ fill out PDF forms,
 or at least it looks like it can.
 So filling out PDF forms is what OP was referring to when talking about
 'editing' PDFs.
 
 Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
 I have version 9.4.6, but odd enough it does not work.  ??
 
 

Hi Evince only looks like it can be used for forms.
You end up filling in a form sending it off , only to get an answer the form
was blank.
Always worth checking a file exported as a pdf, is what you think you want.
Xpdf tells the truth, but its only a reader.

Richard


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread richard
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:48:43 + (UTC)
Curt cu...@free.fr wrote:

 On 2012-01-14, Siard shiems...@kpnplanet.nl wrote:
 
  Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
 
 It is?
 
 

Acroread both linux and win thing failed to save these forms, with an error
Richard


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Siard
John A. Sullivan III:
 Form filling is not in the base package.  I believe you need to
 install the acroread-plugins for that to work

Indeed, after installing package acroread-plugins, acroread does
form filling.  Thanks.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Curt
On 2012-01-14, richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

 Hi Evince only looks like it can be used for forms.

Works for me.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 20:10 +, richard wrote:
 On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:48:43 + (UTC)
 Curt cu...@free.fr wrote:
 
  On 2012-01-14, Siard shiems...@kpnplanet.nl wrote:
  
   Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
  
  It is?
  
  
 
 Acroread both linux and win thing failed to save these forms, with an error
 Richard
 
 
If form filling is what you are doing, that is very strange.  The form
fill plugin has worked well for our clients as far as I know.  Is there
any chance there is something wrong with the form? - John


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Siard
Curt wrote:
 On 2012-01-14, Siard wrote:
 
  Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
 
 It is?

In Wheezy:

$ apt-cache policy acroread
acroread:
  Installed: 9.4.6-0.1
  ...
  http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ wheezy/non-free i386 Packages
  ...


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Weaver

 John A. Sullivan III wrote:
 This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.

 I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat has
 very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party plugins for
 Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still rather limited.

I've just started to use pdfedit, but haven't even delved beneath the
surface yet.

I have found that by opening a pdf in this app, I can gain access
to'select all', 'copy' and then paste into LibreOffice Writer. Use this as
an editor, then 'export to pdf'.
Regards,

Weaver.
-- 


Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by the rulers as useful.

— Lucius Annæus Seneca.

Terrorism, the new religion.



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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Curt
On 2012-01-14, Siard shiems...@kpnplanet.nl wrote:
 
  Acroread should be able to do it, it's in the non-free repository.
 
 It is?

 In Wheezy:

 $ apt-cache policy acroread
 acroread:
   Installed: 9.4.6-0.1
   ...
   http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ wheezy/non-free i386 Packages
   ...
  
When I refer to non-free, I mean the official __debian__ non-free
repository, which is what I thought you meant, and not a third-party
repository, which is what you really meant.


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Claudius Hubig
Hello richard,

richard richard.b...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
You end up filling in a form sending it off , only to get an answer the form
was blank.
Always worth checking a file exported as a pdf, is what you think you want.
Xpdf tells the truth, but its only a reader.

You can try printing the filled-in form as PDF from within Evince and
send the printout.

Best regards,

Claudius
-- 
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Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5 D72CDBA4
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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Tony Baldwin
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 01:00:35PM -0800, Weaver wrote:
 
  John A. Sullivan III wrote:
  This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.
 
  I disagree. PDFs are not _meant_ to be edited. Even Adobe Acrobat has
  very limited options to edit a PDF. There are third party plugins for
  Acrobat that can do some more editing, but it's still rather limited.
 
 I've just started to use pdfedit, but haven't even delved beneath the
 surface yet.
 
 I have found that by opening a pdf in this app, I can gain access
 to'select all', 'copy' and then paste into LibreOffice Writer. Use this as
 an editor, then 'export to pdf'.
 Regards,

For something like that, you could just as easily use
pdftotext $pdffile $textfile
then edit the resulting textfile in LO, or whatever.
Of course, it only works with pdf files that were built from text,
not scans/image files.

./tony
--
http://tonybaldwin.me/hax
free software by tony


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-14 Thread Jude DaShiell
can acroread and acroread-plugins work in a command line environment or is 
this strictly gui?On Sat, 14 Jan 2012, Siard wrote:

 John A. Sullivan III:
  Form filling is not in the base package.  I believe you need to
  install the acroread-plugins for that to work
 
 Indeed, after installing package acroread-plugins, acroread does
 form filling.  Thanks.
 
 
 


Jude jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net
http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-13 Thread John A. Sullivan III
On Fri, 2012-01-13 at 21:50 +, richard wrote:
 Greetings,
 
 
 Is there any free app which can edit pdf files.
 Evince looks like it does it, you can edit, send it as an attachment and read
 it with another copy of evince and you can see the alterations.
 Open it on a poxy winblos machine with acrobat or acroread, and the edited
 sections are as the original.
 xpdf also shows the original before editing..
 help 
 
 TIA
 
 Richard
 
 
This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.  There are no good
options.  Here are the ones of which I know:

1) OpenOffice PDF plugin - probably the best potential but it still
sometimes chokes on some PDFs or mangles the formatting badly.

2) Xournal - good and simple if you only want to add text but nothing
beyond that.

3) GIMP - extremely powerful and consequently complicated and it can
only edit a page at a time.

4) Inkscape or Scribus - powerful and consequently complicated, can only
edit a page at a time (not sure about that for Scribus), crashes
frequently and sometimes completely chokes on the PDF.

5) pdfeditor - potentially the most powerful of the options but still
limited, difficult to use, and immature.

I sure wish it was different as this is a major problem for us.  I'd be
absolutely delighted if I was wrong about this - John


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-13 Thread Claudius Hubig
John A. Sullivan III jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com wrote:
1) OpenOffice PDF plugin - probably the best potential but it still
sometimes chokes on some PDFs or mangles the formatting badly.

2) Xournal - good and simple if you only want to add text but nothing
beyond that.

3) GIMP - extremely powerful and consequently complicated and it can
only edit a page at a time.

4) Inkscape or Scribus - powerful and consequently complicated, can only
edit a page at a time (not sure about that for Scribus), crashes
frequently and sometimes completely chokes on the PDF.

5) pdfeditor - potentially the most powerful of the options but still
limited, difficult to use, and immature.

I would also suggest having a look at PDF XViewer, a Windows freeware
tool that runs rather fine in wine. Much better than anything I’ve
used before.
-- 
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automation? Please use GPG: ECB0C2C7 4A4C4046 446ADF86 C08112E5
D72CDBA4 http://chubig.net/ http://nightfall.org



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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-13 Thread richard
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:20:05 +0100
Claudius Hubig nfs_2...@chubig.net wrote:

 John A. Sullivan III jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com wrote:
 1) OpenOffice PDF plugin - probably the best potential but it still
 sometimes chokes on some PDFs or mangles the formatting badly.
 
 2) Xournal - good and simple if you only want to add text but nothing
 beyond that.
 
 3) GIMP - extremely powerful and consequently complicated and it can
 only edit a page at a time.
 
 4) Inkscape or Scribus - powerful and consequently complicated, can only
 edit a page at a time (not sure about that for Scribus), crashes
 frequently and sometimes completely chokes on the PDF.
 
 5) pdfeditor - potentially the most powerful of the options but still
 limited, difficult to use, and immature.
 
 I would also suggest having a look at PDF XViewer, a Windows freeware
 tool that runs rather fine in wine. Much better than anything I’ve
 used before.



Thanks Guys
I'll try the pdf plugin for open office/libreoffice, it may do it.
Its my sons machine, so try to keep it simple.

Richard


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Re: editing pdf files

2012-01-13 Thread Joe Pfeiffer
John A. Sullivan III jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com writes:

 On Fri, 2012-01-13 at 21:50 +, richard wrote:
 Greetings,
 
 
 Is there any free app which can edit pdf files.
 Evince looks like it does it, you can edit, send it as an attachment and read
 it with another copy of evince and you can see the alterations.
 Open it on a poxy winblos machine with acrobat or acroread, and the edited
 sections are as the original.
 xpdf also shows the original before editing..
 help 
 
 TIA
 
 Richard
 
 
 This is a real hole in the Linux desktop environment.  There are no good
 options.  Here are the ones of which I know:

 1) OpenOffice PDF plugin - probably the best potential but it still
 sometimes chokes on some PDFs or mangles the formatting badly.

Didn't know about this one -- I need to try it...

 2) Xournal - good and simple if you only want to add text but nothing
 beyond that.

 3) GIMP - extremely powerful and consequently complicated and it can
 only edit a page at a time.

And it completely loses the document structure:  it edits it as an
image.  Even if you save the result as a PDF, it's just a big image.

 4) Inkscape or Scribus - powerful and consequently complicated, can only
 edit a page at a time (not sure about that for Scribus), crashes
 frequently and sometimes completely chokes on the PDF.

 5) pdfeditor - potentially the most powerful of the options but still
 limited, difficult to use, and immature.

 I sure wish it was different as this is a major problem for us.  I'd be
 absolutely delighted if I was wrong about this - John


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