Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
No. It needs an MTA. Install Esmtp, Nullmailer, or similar. Back to square one i guess. From the man page, as far as i can tell, all at does is run commands at specified times... kinda like cron... why does it need an MTA? You don't need at, just remove it. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
2009/4/14 Douglas A. Tutty dtu...@vianet.ca: Unix without an MTA??? You're completely right, Unix is nothing without an MTA! Even Gameservers are or watching videos is worse without one...ER What about a centralized syslog-server which then sends the mail? What about gameservers with MTA or a cluster client with MTA? In all of these cases an MTA on each server is not required. On a small debian system only fcron (which is a depency of logrotate) needs an MTA installed. I have some computers running on lenny here but i use a centralized syslog for that, so an MTA is NOT a depency, only a recommendation. Additionally, most Debian users are NOT setting up their exim so an MTA is installed but cannot be used. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
2009/4/14 Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca: 2009/4/14 Randy Kramer rhkra...@gmail.com: Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Why should every user specify an outgoing SMTP server? Why should every MUA implement the functionality of an MTA? Do you understand the difference between server and client? Placing a mail into the queue of an MTA is NOT the functionality of an MTA, but of an MUA. Why should every user specify an NNTP server? You often have to use the SMTP server of your mail provider cause of spam prevention, for example you cannot send emails frmom your MTA using any email address below an3k.de or googlemail.com or other domains cause those domains doesn't list your MTA as an allowed MTA for that domain. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Ben writes: Additionally, most Debian users are NOT setting up their exim so an MTA is installed but cannot be used. It gets used every time a process calls /usr/bin/mail or /usr/sbin/sendmail. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
2009/4/19 John Hasler jhas...@debian.org: Ben writes: Additionally, most Debian users are NOT setting up their exim so an MTA is installed but cannot be used. It gets used every time a process calls /usr/bin/mail or /usr/sbin/sendmail. yes but without configuration it cannot send mails, except local forwarding and for that i dont need an MTA. Instead of getting spammend by MTAs running on all of your servers, set up a centralized syslog server! however, if you deselect standard system in debinstaller it doesn't install any package which depens on MTA. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Why should every user specify an outgoing SMTP server? Why should every MUA implement the functionality of an MTA? Do you understand the difference between server and client? ;-) Placing a mail into the queue of an MTA is NOT the functionality of an MTA, but of an MUA. Right, the MUA places it into the queue by running /usr/sbin/sendmail. Then the MTA pushes the mail further via the MSMTP protocol. So the MTA does the queue management. Which works better since the MTA works in the background, so it will keep trying to send your mail even if your MUA is not running. Why should every user specify an NNTP server? Because NNTP server are like IMAP servers, not like SMTP servers. You often have to use the SMTP server of your mail provider cause of spam prevention, That's OK. Just stay away from such braindead spam prevention. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
As mentioned in this thread, I don't understand your problem: I just removed my MTA and aptitude was quite happy to do so. So what tool is it that forces you (or makes you feel forced) to install an MTA? # apt-get -s remove exim4-daemon-light Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-daemon-light gutenprint lsb lsb-core lsb-cxx lsb-desktop lsb-graphics mailx Same results for exim4-base and it seems i have... two MTAs? :) Regards, Nuno Magalhães -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
# apt-get -s remove exim4-daemon-light Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages will be REMOVED: at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-daemon-light gutenprint lsb lsb-core lsb-cxx lsb-desktop lsb-graphics mailx Which of those do you need? Report a bug against them. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 04:26:57PM +0200, Dirk wrote: Install nullmailer, I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for. i thought so too.. but it doesn't seem to do what it name implies... it's config kept asking where to redirect the mails too... and /dev/null wasn't an option :( it seems i really have to understand MTA's to live without them... Yeah. :) Check out esmtp-run and, perhaps, pair it with procmail (not 100% sure if it's needed - if you really want it all devnlled then you can just pair it with 'true' at a guess) -- A search of his car uncovered pornography, a homemade sex aid, women's stockings and a Jack Russell terrier. - http://www.news.com.au/story/0%2C27574%2C24675808-421%2C00.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Which of those do you need? Report a bug against them. Well.. i do need gutenprint if i'm going to use some printers. I'd assume 'at' and 'lsb' are required by the system; at least i've seen 'at' mentioned a lot. It seems as though gutenprint depends on lsb and lsb-core depends on a mail-transport-agent and at. Why... beats me. I guess i'll give that dummy MTA a try. -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ ascii-rubanda kampajno - kontraŭ html-a retpoŝto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Nuno writes: Well.. i do need gutenprint if i'm going to use some printers. I'd assume 'at' and 'lsb' are required by the system; at least i've seen 'at' mentioned a lot. 'at' is priority standard. While it would be surprising to find it missing from a Unix system it is not required. 'lsb' is priority extra. It is not required and you should only need it for some closed-source packages. It seems as though gutenprint depends on lsb and lsb-core depends on a mail-transport-agent and at. There is no package named gutenprint. Which package are you referring to? -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
There is no package named gutenprint. Which package are you referring to? Not in the Debian repos apparently. I got it for my Epson; converted from a rpm package by alien. You'll find some related packages[1] in the repos though. dpkg -l |grep gutenprint ii foomatic-db-gutenprint5.2.3-2 OpenPrinting printer support - database for Gutenprint printer d ii gutenprint5.0.2-2lsb3.2 Gutenprint - Top Quality Printer Drivers ii ijsgutenprint 5.2.3-2 inkjet server - Ghostscript driver for Gutenprint ii libgutenprint25.2.3-2 runtime for the Gutenprint printer driver library So it being the only package depending on lsb, if i find other driveers for my printer i guess i could get rid of gutenprint. However, to get back on topic, 'at' still depends on an MTA. Should i file a bug against at? Regards, Nuno Magalhães [1] http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=sidarch=amd64searchon=nameskeywords=gutenprint -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ ascii-rubanda kampajno - kontraŭ html-a retpoŝto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
I wrote: There is no package named gutenprint. Which package are you referring to? Nuno writes: Not in the Debian repos apparently. Well, then. However, to get back on topic, 'at' still depends on an MTA. Should i file a bug against at? No. It needs an MTA. Install Esmtp, Nullmailer, or similar. I continue to find it amazing, though, that people who cheerfully put up with the astounding amount of cruft that the Gnome Desktop Environment drags in are put off by something as small and simple as an MTA. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
No. It needs an MTA. Install Esmtp, Nullmailer, or similar. Back to square one i guess. From the man page, as far as i can tell, all at does is run commands at specified times... kinda like cron... why does it need an MTA? I continue to find it amazing, though, that people who cheerfully put up with the astounding amount of cruft that the Gnome Desktop Environment drags in are put off by something as small and simple as an MTA. Puh-lease, troll me not. I don't use gnome, or kde. I prefer lightweight window managers like windowmaker, fluxbox or xfce. Happy? :) Cheers, Nuno Magalhães -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ ascii-rubanda kampajno - kontraŭ html-a retpoŝto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Nuno writes: From the man page, as far as i can tell, all at does is run commands at specified times... kinda like cron... why does it need an MTA? From the man page: The user will be mailed standard error and standard output from his commands, if any. Mail will be sent using the command /usr/sbin/sendmail. If at is executed from a su(1) shell, the owner of the login shell will receive the mail. I don't use gnome, or kde. Those who rail against MTAs are more often than not ex-Windows users with their machines loaded up with all things Gnomish. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Hi, It seems as though most people on the list are incapable of answering a simple technical question if it messes with their belief system. Instead, they go on questioning the OPs motivations. It's rather annoying. I've asked the same question a while ago. I have a simple one-user desktop, i do not need an MTA. I know those programs don't need much memory (i have 4GB), i know they're sleeping most of the time, i know they'll only wake up if there's something to do. But i don't want an MTA. It's that simple. All the mail i use is web-based and if i want to access it other than through https i'll use some mail client. MTAs, afaik, are useful for multiuser systems and/or systems that actually handle mail. (Most (i should say 'most' otherwise some nitpick will say But i do!)) single-user desktops do not. And if the MTA is used by internal programs, well, maybe those programs should not rely on a MailTA? Syslog maybe? Another option? From the answers of those who can answer a technical question (also providing their own opinion, or not) i got to configure exim so that my system would start faster. I still have exim. Googling around i came across this: http://www.mike01.com/ I haven't tried it yet and it doesn't seem to be in the repos. HTH, Nuno Magalhães -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 09:59:52AM +0100, Nuno Magalhães wrote: Hi, It seems as though most people on the list are incapable of answering a simple technical question if it messes with their belief system. Instead, they go on questioning the OPs motivations. It's rather annoying. You asked a quiestion that was not clear. It took a while to understand that you wanted a package to satisfy the mail-transfer-agent dependency. Someone else has thus suggested you nullmailer. I have suggested you ssmtp . I've asked the same question a while ago. I have a simple one-user desktop, i do not need an MTA. I know those programs don't need much memory (i have 4GB), i know they're sleeping most of the time, i know they'll only wake up if there's something to do. But i don't want an MTA. It's that simple. All the mail i use is web-based and if i want to access it other than through https i'll use some mail client. Sending mail and recieving it are two different things. Generally you can relay outgoing mail through the SMTP server of your ISP. Alternatively, as you seem to be using GMail, you can relay your mail through it using SMTP. You do need to authenticate yourself. http://wiki.debian.org/GmailAndExim4 (I use postfix and have sa similar setup at work) Generally ssmtp, null-mailer and alike are likely not to support such extra features. They work best for a sattelite system that sends all the mail immediately to a mail server near by. MTAs, afaik, are useful for multiuser systems and/or systems that actually handle mail. (Most (i should say 'most' otherwise some nitpick will say But i do!)) single-user desktops do not. And if the MTA is used by internal programs, well, maybe those programs should not rely on a MailTA? Syslog maybe? Another option? Here's something you should test: how simple is it for you to use reportbug to report bugs? From the answers of those who can answer a technical question (also providing their own opinion, or not) i got to configure exim so that my system would start faster. I still have exim. Googling around i came across this: http://www.mike01.com/ I haven't tried it yet and it doesn't seem to be in the repos. Again, useless: Debian already has ssmtp, msmtp, null-mailer, esmtp and probably others I forgot. I suggest you actually read replies before discarding them. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:28, Tzafrir Cohen tzaf...@cohens.org.il wrote: You asked a quiestion that was not clear. It took a while to understand that you wanted a package to satisfy the mail-transfer-agent dependency. I'm not the OP, i just posted the same question a while ago. You sumed it up nicely i think: having a dummy package for packages that depend on an MTA. Sending mail and recieving it are two different things. Generally you can relay outgoing mail through the SMTP server of your ISP. And i can get it through POP3 or i can use IMAP, i know. But i don't use any of those, i use webmail. A web-browser suffices for me. Here's something you should test: how simple is it for you to use reportbug to report bugs? The few bugs i've reported were on their application's sites. Again, useless: Debian already has ssmtp, msmtp, null-mailer, esmtp and probably others I forgot. I suggest you actually read replies before discarding them. All those are mail applications, i don't want them. :) Regards, Nuno Magalhães -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Nuno writes: The few bugs i've reported were on their application's sites. Then you've never reported a bug to Debian. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 02:18:57PM +0100, Nuno Magalhães wrote: All those are mail applications, i don't want them. :) Unlike exim, ssmtp does not run as a server. Or does not maintain a spool. BTW: is it possible to configure exim (or sendmail) not to run as daemons? Assuming you don't want them to listen on port 25. For postfix and qmail it is naturally pointless. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 03:08:41PM +0200, Dirk wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: nah.. instead of configuring a package i don't want to install in the first place i just run a cronjob that de-installs the MTA every 30 minutes using dpkg --force-all --purge exim4 ..so i can run updates and the cronjob makes sure it turns out the way i want it.. running dpkg every 30 minutes uses far more resources than running exim. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:28:26AM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 09:59:52AM +0100, Nuno Magalhães wrote: MTAs, afaik, are useful for multiuser systems and/or systems that actually handle mail. (Most (i should say 'most' otherwise some nitpick will say But i do!)) single-user desktops do not. And if the MTA is used by internal programs, well, maybe those programs should not rely on a MailTA? Syslog maybe? Another option? Here's something you should test: how simple is it for you to use reportbug to report bugs? I actually have a question about this; I've always used reportbug with the -M flag, which relays the mail through Mutt. What is the *proper* way to set up exim4 so that reportbug will work without any errors? (Currently I'm not using exim4 for anything but local mail relaying, as I don't like putting my personal mail's user/pass in /etc) -- http://fuzzydev.org/~pobega http://identi.ca/pobega -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:15:42 -0400 Michael Pobega pob...@fuzzydev.org wrote: I actually have a question about this; I've always used reportbug with the -M flag, which relays the mail through Mutt. What is the *proper* way to set up exim4 so that reportbug will work without any errors? (Currently I'm not using exim4 for anything but local mail relaying, as I don't like putting my personal mail's user/pass in /etc) Try dpkg-reconfigure reportbug or reportbug -config I know one of those was recently updated set things up so that if you didn't have an working MTA on the system, or you couldn't just use your ISP's MTA that you could use a debian machine as as the SMTP relay (but only to report a bug and it's on a port other than port 25; check the changelog in /usr/share/doc/reportbug. Regards, Daniel -- And that's my crabbing done for the day. Got it out of the way early, now I have the rest of the afternoon to sniff fragrant tea-roses or strangle cute bunnies or something. -- Michael Devore GnuPG Key Fingerprint 86 F5 81 A5 D4 2E 1F 1C http://gnupg.org The C Shore (Daniel Dickinson's Website) http://cshore.is-a-geek.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 07:34:29PM +, Tzafrir Cohen (tzaf...@cohens.org.il) wrote: BTW: is it possible to configure exim (or sendmail) not to run as daemons? Don't know about exim but for sendmail it is perfectly possible, well-supported and indeed easy. Whether that is a useful configuration depends on your needs, but I've used it with success in situations where client programs can execute sendmail binary to send mail as an alternative to via port 25 - surprisingly many have that option. In Debian the right way to do this is editing /etc/mail/sendmail.conf (set DAEMON_MODE=none). -- Tapani Tarvainen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
I've asked the same question a while ago. I have a simple one-user desktop, i do not need an MTA. I know those programs don't need much memory (i have 4GB), i know they're sleeping most of the time, i know they'll only wake up if there's something to do. But i don't want an MTA. It's that simple. As mentioned in this thread, I don't understand your problem: I just removed my MTA and aptitude was quite happy to do so. So what tool is it that forces you (or makes you feel forced) to install an MTA? Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:53:01AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: I've asked the same question a while ago. I have a simple one-user desktop, i do not need an MTA. I know those programs don't need much memory (i have 4GB), i know they're sleeping most of the time, i know they'll only wake up if there's something to do. But i don't want an MTA. It's that simple. As mentioned in this thread, I don't understand your problem: I just removed my MTA and aptitude was quite happy to do so. So what tool is it that forces you (or makes you feel forced) to install an MTA? atd crond merely recommends it. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... Unix without an MTA??? Why not install exim, then look at the filters section of the docs. Exim can do the same kinds of filters as procmail for each user. Don't have an alias for root's mail, put a filter in /root/.forward (or wherever its supposed to go; its been a while), and then have that filter put the mail wherever you want. If you really don't want the mail, the filter can delete it without it being read. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... Unix without an MTA??? Why not install exim, then look at the filters section of the docs. Exim can do the same kinds of filters as procmail for each user. Don't have an alias for root's mail, put a filter in /root/.forward (or wherever its supposed to go; its been a while), and then have that filter put the mail wherever you want. If you really don't want the mail, the filter can delete it without it being read. Doug. nah.. instead of configuring a package i don't want to install in the first place i just run a cronjob that de-installs the MTA every 30 minutes using dpkg --force-all --purge exim4 ..so i can run updates and the cronjob makes sure it turns out the way i want it.. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 08:28:08AM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... have 40 machines and go throught the log files on every one of them several times every day and manage to get some other work done as well. mk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 09:08:41 am Dirk wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: Unix without an MTA??? To me, that's a wonderful idea--in fact, that's the way I ran my Mandriva2006 system for the last 3 years. I just used kmail like a Windows mail client, receiving mail (directly (from my ISP)) using pop3 and sending mail (directly (to my ISP)) using SMTP. I did find a way to put a soft linked file in my local kmail folders so I could get email sent to the administrator--this was something like a hard link to the normal location of root's email spool (maybe /var/mail/root?). Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... Dirk Install nullmailer, I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for. -- http://fuzzydev.org/~pobega http://identi.ca/pobega -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On 2009-04-14 15:33 +0200, Randy Kramer wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 09:08:41 am Dirk wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: Unix without an MTA??? To me, that's a wonderful idea--in fact, that's the way I ran my Mandriva2006 system for the last 3 years. I just used kmail like a Windows mail client, receiving mail (directly (from my ISP)) using pop3 and sending mail (directly (to my ISP)) using SMTP. Such a setup is quite common these days -- Ubuntu does not ship an MTA in their default installation either. But when you think of the many small tools that can send mail more or less automatically, an MTA still makes sense. Even if these tools support SMTP (not all do), you have to tell the SMTP server and your password to each of them. With an MTA, you only have to configure _one_ program instead. And sending mail may become faster as well -- your MUA does not have to wait for the SMTP server's response. This is especially useful if it is not multithreaded (as is the case in Emacs, for instance). I did find a way to put a soft linked file in my local kmail folders so I could get email sent to the administrator--this was something like a hard link to the normal location of root's email spool (maybe /var/mail/root?). Well, for this to work you need an MTA that does local delivery anyway. Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Local delivery of messages from cron jobs is probably the most common case. I would not like to dispense with that. Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Martin Kraus wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 08:28:08AM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... have 40 machines and go throught the log files on every one of them several times every day and manage to get some other work done as well. mk :O you should install an MTA then... but /I/ dont wanna... :/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Michael Pobega wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... Dirk Install nullmailer, I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for. i thought so too.. but it doesn't seem to do what it name implies... it's config kept asking where to redirect the mails too... and /dev/null wasn't an option :( it seems i really have to understand MTA's to live without them... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:13:58 am Sven Joachim wrote: On 2009-04-14 15:33 +0200, Randy Kramer wrote: I did find a way to put a soft linked file in my local kmail folders so I could get email sent to the administrator--this was something like a hard link to the normal location of root's email spool (maybe /var/mail/root?). Well, for this to work you need an MTA that does local delivery anyway. Well, there's a possibility I'm mistaken, but I was pretty sure that I didn't have an MTA installed or configured. Maybe my link was to somewhere other than root's email spool--maybe it was to the (an?) incoming mail spool? (Some day, when I have more time and interest, I'll try to reboot that system and double check.) Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Local delivery of messages from cron jobs is probably the most common case. I would not like to dispense with that. Thanks--even though I did get those, I rarely read them--only when something went wrong and I went looking for the cause. Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Why should every user specify an outgoing SMTP server? Why should every MUA implement the functionality of an MTA? Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:48:17 am Stefan Monnier wrote: Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Why should every user specify an outgoing SMTP server? Why should every MUA implement the functionality of an MTA? I'm still procrastinating on my taxes, so I'll respond ;-) * I'm fairly certain that the functionality of an MTA is significantly more than just receiving mail via POP3 and sending it via SMTP. * I'm also fairly sure that the resources required by an MUA that can receive POP3 and send SMTP are usually less than the resources required for an MTA plus and MUA with similar functionality. (Part of what I'm trying to imply is that I know a mail client like kmail is much bigger than a mail client like mutt, but mutt is not a GUI mail client, kmail, and I suspect that's a bigger factor with respect to the resource requirements than the ability to handle SMTP and POP3 for a single client.) * It's also sort an an historical accident--afaik, Windows (and Dos) email clients (almost??) always could handle POP3 and SMTP without a local MTA. When people (like me) migrated from Windows to Linux, I couldn't understand why I needed an MTA (and I didn't, but it was sure a learning curve until I found that out for sure). Then, the first MTA people thought I should deal with was sendmail, and that was a big pain to learn how to get that to simply interface to my ISP. (In fact, I never did, I switched to Postfix and learned (again with difficulty, but presumably less) how to get it to interface to my ISP. Maybe those problems are gone now, and maybe it was never a problem of the program's capability, but of me learning the program's capability. I've sat in LUG meetings where guys have bragged about reading all the RFCs, and telling the newbies that they had to do the same. (Implying many things.) Anyway, it appears you've struck (or I've uncovered) a nerve, so if you really feel that (hmm, how to fairly paraphrase what I infer from your comment)... MUAs should not include SMTP and POP3 (and maybe IMAP) capabilities, but everyone should install and use an MTA, I think I'll just agree to disagree. regards, Randy Kramer Hmm, did I just feed a troll? -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... What are those many programs? On my Debian desktop, I happen to like to have an MTA running (exclusively for outgoing email), but I just tried aptitude remove postfix and postfix was removed without complaining that other packages needed it. Probably the problem you're seeing is just a packaging bug. Moreover having to run a cron job to remove `exim4' seems to point to a real problem somewhere. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
Dirk wrote: nah.. instead of configuring a package i don't want to install in the first place i just run a cronjob that de-installs the MTA every 30 minutes using dpkg --force-all --purge exim4 ..so i can run updates and the cronjob makes sure it turns out the way i want it.. Since MTAs (exim or any other) do not install themselves without you telling the system to do so (even if they get pulled as dependencies, you still have to ask for the installation of some other package that needs a MTA), I'd say this cron job isn't particularly useful. -- Insufficient facts always invite danger. -- Spock, Space Seed, stardate 3141.9 Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:11:59 -0400 Randy Kramer rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: ... * I'm fairly certain that the functionality of an MTA is significantly more than just receiving mail via POP3 and sending it via SMTP. IIUC, MTAs don't generally do POP3; that's an MRA's job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_retrieval_agent Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:11:59AM -0400, Randy Kramer wrote: On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:48:17 am Stefan Monnier wrote: Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Why should every user specify an outgoing SMTP server? Why should every MUA implement the functionality of an MTA? I'm still procrastinating on my taxes, so I'll respond ;-) * I'm fairly certain that the functionality of an MTA is significantly more than just receiving mail via POP3 and sending it via SMTP. mta just sends mail using smtp. it doesn't provide access to remote mailboxes (pop/imap). * I'm also fairly sure that the resources required by an MUA that can receive POP3 and send SMTP are usually less than the resources required postfix doesn't take anything besides a bit of memory. if it doesn't do anything it just sleeps and it does something only when sending mail. mk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:48:17 am Stefan Monnier wrote: Why would somebody need an MTA for a (normal) desktop? Why should every user specify an outgoing SMTP server? Why should every MUA implement the functionality of an MTA? Why fight it? A sendmail daemon has been part of *nix forever, like cron and lots of other stuff. It's the way the os works. Let your installer install one, then edit the config so the MTA aliases everything to a pipe to /dev/null -- if you're really, *really* sure you don't want to know about it when the kernel determines that the world will end in 5 minutes... You can easily block port 25 in both directions on the external interface if all you need to do is cut off the MTA's communication with the outside world. - -- Glenn English g...@slsware.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknkvl0ACgkQ04yQfZbbTLZXtACghQPHVkBFIkCzLsic8/1FkOtG UMkAn0z6DK9QohonW6dkxRH7UaHv86EW =mpe0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 04:22:01PM +0200, Dirk wrote: Martin Kraus wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 08:28:08AM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... have 40 machines and go throught the log files on every one of them several times every day and manage to get some other work done as well. mk you should install an MTA then... but /I/ dont wanna... :/ you wrote that it belongs to the log files, i just pointed out that it doesn't. anyway what is a problem with mta running? it just sleeps if you don't use it and on my laptop, I don't get any emails from system, not even cron, because it sends messages only in case of some (potentional) problem and i dont' have any:) anyway, there used to be some fake-mta deb packages which provided mail-transport-agent tag(or whatever it's called) and that satisfies all the other packages. so try google to find it and install it and you're set. mk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 12:33:48 pm Celejar wrote: Randy Kramer rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: * I'm fairly certain that the functionality of an MTA is significantly more than just receiving mail via POP3 and sending it via SMTP. IIUC, MTAs don't generally do POP3; that's an MRA's job. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_retrieval_agent Celejar, Thanks! Randy Kramer -- I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video instead.--with apologies to Cicero, et.al. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: how can i turn /dev/null into an MTA?
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:26:17AM +0200, Dirk wrote: (see subject) i don't want an MTA running on a system... but many programs require it as dependency to spam me with their stuff (which should belong into just a log file (IMO))... ssmtp But anyway, what's your issue with an MTA? Is it a desktop system with iceweasel running? -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
