Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
An update on this (see long quote below) --- maybe it helps someone with a similar problem: After a total disk failure seemed imminent --- the disconnected disk didn't come back after turning the computer off and back on --- I got two new disks to replace the Maxtor 7V300F0 disks. I made a software RAID-1 from the new disks and managed to copy all my data to the new disks. That allowed me to play around with the Maxtor disks. I found out that there is a firmware update available for them[1] which is supposed to solve the problem with the disks disconnecting. I updated the firmware today. The disks seem to be working so far; I'm using them for making backups, and a backup on one of the disks made before the firmware update is still readable after updating the firmware. I didn't check the other disk, but mdadm still recognized the other disk as being part of a RAID-1 and started an md device for it, which would indicate that everything on that disk was also still readable. --- Time will tell if the problem with disconnecting is finally solved. For reference on the firmware, see [2]. If you need to boot some DOS version from a USB stick or an USB disk: Install the unetbootin package. Download a FreeDos 2.88MB floppy image[3] (1.44 is too small) and the firmware archive. Unzip the firmware archive. Mount the floppy image file as loop device (mount here imagefile -o loop) and copy the files from the firmware archive into the image file. Unmount the image file. Use unetbootin to to make a bootable USB stick from the floppy image (Select Floppy Image instead of ISO in unetbootin when selecting the file to write onto the stick.) Disconnect all hard disks and DVD/CD drives except for the Maxtor disk the firmware of which you're going to update. Turn off AHCI mode in the BIOS. Boot from the USB stick, but press F8 while booting (after the boot manager) and do NOT load highmem, emm386 and especially not some pciusb.sys (or how it was called). Run dload.exe, choose no power control, first disk found and an option called something like transfer in one part; then select the firmware file. It takes a few seconds to update the firmware; the update program will tell you when it was successful. When it was successful, exit the update program and start it again to verify the firmware version. It should show firmware version VA111680. --- It worked for me, but ymmv, so take all precautions, like making backups before you start ... On a side note, it took me awfully long to figure out how to make a DOS bootable USB stick under Linux. Try to google for that, you just don't find it ... Your BIOS must be able to boot from such devices, but if it does, it seems you could even use a card reader (with a card inserted, of course) instead of a stick, and it doesn't matter if the stick says that is supports booting or not. Unetbootin is awesome ... This one might also be interesting: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ Using a Debian kernel (2.6.24) --- one of the things I tried --- did not solve the problem with disconnecting. [1]: http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/24514/_.html [2]: http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?showtopic=22435st=0 [3]: http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/ --- I think I used another one, but I don't remember where I got it. If you need the image file I used, let me know and I can mail it to you. On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:15:56PM -0600, lee wrote: Hi, what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? I'm using a standard kernel, but I'm having problems with one of my disks (see below). The disk gets lost every now and then, i. e. it seems to take a couple days or weeks now (I've seen it taking as long as about two months with the old board) before it happens. The disk remains unavailable until I turn the power off and back on. Once the disk is back, I can re-add the partitions on the failed disk to the md devices, and they are being rebuilt just fine, and it works for some time until the disk gets lost again. This problem isn't new; it has been there with another board/CPU/RAM, cables and power supply ever since I got the two SATA disks new. It's been there with every standard kernel I tried over the years, with i368, and now it's the same with amd64. I've been thinking it was a problem of the board I had, but as it's there with another board etc., it must be either the disk itself or the SATA driver. Googling revealed that this isn't a rare problem. There are people reporting it with all kinds of different disks and boards and different distributions. Some suggest that it's a problem with the PSU or the SATA cables, but imho that's unlikely. Interestingly, it seems to be more common for this problem to show up in RAID setups. Also interestingly, mdadm did *not* detect the disk failure for /dev/md2 which is mounted read only. And even more interestingly, the problem is and has always been with /dev/sdb,
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 11:05:01PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 04:11:35PM -0600, lee wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:51:56PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 03:00:41PM -0600, lee wrote: On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. Specifics please: Machine name / model number / motherboard if homebuilt? Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Output from lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31/P35/P31 Express DRAM Controller (rev 02) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82G33/G31/P35/P31 Express PCI Express Root Port (rev 02) 00:1a.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB UHCI Controller #4 (rev 02) 00:1a.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB UHCI Controller #5 (rev 02) 00:1a.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB UHCI Controller #6 (rev 02) 00:1a.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #2 (rev 02) 00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) PCI Express Port 1 (rev 02) 00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) PCI Express Port 4 (rev 02) 00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) PCI Express Port 5 (rev 02) 00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 02) 00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 02) 00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 02) 00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #1 (rev 02) 00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 92) 00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801IB (ICH9) LPC Interface Controller (rev 02) 00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801IB (ICH9) 2 port SATA IDE Controller (rev 02) 00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) SMBus Controller (rev 02) 00:1f.5 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) 2 port SATA IDE Controller (rev 02) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G92 [GeForce 9800 GT] (rev a2) 03:00.0 IDE interface: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB368 IDE controller 05:00.0 PCI bridge: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21152 (rev 03) 05:02.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 0a) 05:02.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! Game Port (rev 0a) 06:04.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9/0/1 Ethernet Pro 100 (rev 05) 06:05.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82557/8/9/0/1 Ethernet Pro 100 (rev 05) Output from lsmod The modules needed to use SATA drives are just not available on the installer CD. Which installer are you using - Etch a.k.a Debian 4.0 or Lenny (upcoming Debian 5.0) ? I was installing testing. Which kernel version appears to boot - 2.6.18 / 2.6.24 / 2.6.26? I think it was 2.6.24. Go to the non-free archive for Debian packages. Look for firmware-non-free packages. I've recently had to use the bnx2 drivers for Broadcom ethernet cards. The modules I need to access the disks come with standard and Debian kernels. They are not non-free. If you know that they come with Debian's standard kernels and that they're there, is there any obvious reason why they're not included? no The modules should be included with the installer CD because without them, it's not possible to install unless you have SCSI or IDE disks. There are also no floppy disk images of the installer for download (like there used to be), which would allow you do download another disk image containing more modules. Still the installer keeps prompting for a floppy disk and tells you to insert the disk, just to find out that there is no floppy disk drive installed. Have you _seen_ how big kernels are lately? : floppies (even if you can find working floppy disks) ceased to be viable about the time Linux went to kernel version 2.6. Not all the modules aren't that big --- and if they are too big to fit on a floppy, they can be split over several disks. It doesn't matter much, though, I removed the floppy from my computer a decade ago and haven't had one since. Just mainboard manufacturers seem to live in a different world where people still have floppies to update the BIOS ... Why doesn't the page tell you, like it did when floppy images were available, that you might need more modules and offers you to download another CD image? Why aren't those modules just on the installer CD? I think the release notes mention things like this: the modules probably
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Saturday 03 January 2009 23:05:01 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 04:11:35PM -0600, lee wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:51:56PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 03:00:41PM -0600, lee wrote: On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. Specifics please: Machine name / model number / motherboard if homebuilt? Any output from dmesg (if it gets that far) likewise Output from lspci Output from lsmod Which installer are you using - Etch a.k.a Debian 4.0 or Lenny (upcoming Debian 5.0) ? Which kernel version appears to boot - 2.6.18 / 2.6.24 / 2.6.26? Go to the non-free archive for Debian packages. Look for firmware-non-free packages. I've recently had to use the bnx2 drivers for Broadcom ethernet cards. The modules I need to access the disks come with standard and Debian kernels. They are not non-free. If you know that they come with Debian's standard kernels and that they're there, is there any obvious reason why they're not included? And then, when you look at http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst, it doesn't tell you that the installer is missing crucial modules to access SATA disks (which are the default nowadays), or where to get missing modules. There are also no floppy disk images of the installer for download (like there used to be), which would allow you do download another disk image containing more modules. Still the installer keeps prompting for a floppy disk and tells you to insert the disk, just to find out that there is no floppy disk drive installed. Have you _seen_ how big kernels are lately? : floppies (even if you can find working floppy disks) ceased to be viable about the time Linux went to kernel version 2.6. Why doesn't the page tell you, like it did when floppy images were available, that you might need more modules and offers you to download another CD image? Why aren't those modules just on the installer CD? I think the release notes mention things like this: the modules probably are on an installer CD: do you know which modules they might be? It's not that the CD image would get too big to fit on a CD or to download --- and if it was, there could always be the minimal installer image for computers older than 4 or 5 years and another one with all that's missing on the minimal image. The installer could also give you instructions about how to get more modules or just download the missing modules automatically during the installation, just like it does with other things. The instructions below are for those things that are explicitly non-free. It's also based on the Lenny installer (which does tell you if non-free firmware is required). Download the .deb on another machine. [Assuming you're using Linux here]. What do you do when you don't have one? Buy a windoze CD and another hard disk, install windoze on that disk, get the needed files, install Debian, sell the windoze CD and disk? If you don't have another machine: borrow a friend who has a USB stick / SD card and access to a Linux machine. Your email address suggests that you may be in .de - which has towns with Linux user groups / internet cafe's. And before you can do that, how do you know where to get the missing kernel modules for the installer, and how do you know which ones are missing? I'd like to know that for the next time I'll try to install. Boot with a live CD? Carry the USB stick across to the machine you need it on. Boot the Lenny installer - at some point the dialog will tell you that you need non-free modules and will ask you for a floppy/USB stick to load the modules from. No, it didn't tell me that it needs modules. It only told me that no disks had been detected. If I hadn't known that a module is missing and that it does work once the right module is available, I could have concluded that Linux is just too old to run on even old (like two or three years) hardware ... Kernel version you are trying to install? Insert the stick when prompted. The installer offers to read modules from a floppy disk, not from an USB device. These modules need to be available to the installer out of the box. It's not like I'd be using some unusual hardware ... What is not unusual to you is unusual to other people :) What is unusual about SATA disks and controllers? Go to your favourite computer store --- now or a year (or even longer) ago --- and try to buy a computer or a mainboard that doesn't have SATA disks or an SATA controller. You'd have a very hard time to find one. I can
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:51:56PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 03:00:41PM -0600, lee wrote: On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. You should be able to load them from a USB stick. Maybe it's not fully automatic, but you can switch in another console during installation, mount the disk, and then direct the installer to load from that directory. Well, I don't have an USB stick --- though a card reader instead should work. But how/where do you get the modules? And how do you put them onto the USB device while installing? A USB stick is a few Euro :) About $14, and I already have SD cards and a cardreader, so I'd rather use that :) Go to the non-free archive for Debian packages. Look for firmware-non-free packages. I've recently had to use the bnx2 drivers for Broadcom ethernet cards. The modules I need to access the disks come with standard and Debian kernels. They are not non-free. And then, when you look at http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst, it doesn't tell you that the installer is missing crucial modules to access SATA disks (which are the default nowadays), or where to get missing modules. There are also no floppy disk images of the installer for download (like there used to be), which would allow you do download another disk image containing more modules. Still the installer keeps prompting for a floppy disk and tells you to insert the disk, just to find out that there is no floppy disk drive installed. Why doesn't the page tell you, like it did when floppy images were available, that you might need more modules and offers you to download another CD image? Why aren't those modules just on the installer CD? It's not that the CD image would get too big to fit on a CD or to download --- and if it was, there could always be the minimal installer image for computers older than 4 or 5 years and another one with all that's missing on the minimal image. The installer could also give you instructions about how to get more modules or just download the missing modules automatically during the installation, just like it does with other things. Download the .deb on another machine. [Assuming you're using Linux here]. What do you do when you don't have one? Buy a windoze CD and another hard disk, install windoze on that disk, get the needed files, install Debian, sell the windoze CD and disk? And before you can do that, how do you know where to get the missing kernel modules for the installer, and how do you know which ones are missing? I'd like to know that for the next time I'll try to install. Carry the USB stick across to the machine you need it on. Boot the Lenny installer - at some point the dialog will tell you that you need non-free modules and will ask you for a floppy/USB stick to load the modules from. No, it didn't tell me that it needs modules. It only told me that no disks had been detected. If I hadn't known that a module is missing and that it does work once the right module is available, I could have concluded that Linux is just too old to run on even old (like two or three years) hardware ... Insert the stick when prompted. The installer offers to read modules from a floppy disk, not from an USB device. These modules need to be available to the installer out of the box. It's not like I'd be using some unusual hardware ... What is not unusual to you is unusual to other people :) What is unusual about SATA disks and controllers? Go to your favourite computer store --- now or a year (or even longer) ago --- and try to buy a computer or a mainboard that doesn't have SATA disks or an SATA controller. You'd have a very hard time to find one. Also keep in mind that this was the amd64 installer. Which system that can run 64bit software doesn't have an SATA controller? The reason that the modules are in non-free is precisely because they have licence conditions or similar which prevent us putting them in the Debian archive proper. The AHCI SATA support in the standard and Debian kernels creates something that is non-free? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 04:11:35PM -0600, lee wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:51:56PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 03:00:41PM -0600, lee wrote: On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. Specifics please: Machine name / model number / motherboard if homebuilt? Any output from dmesg (if it gets that far) likewise Output from lspci Output from lsmod Which installer are you using - Etch a.k.a Debian 4.0 or Lenny (upcoming Debian 5.0) ? Which kernel version appears to boot - 2.6.18 / 2.6.24 / 2.6.26? Go to the non-free archive for Debian packages. Look for firmware-non-free packages. I've recently had to use the bnx2 drivers for Broadcom ethernet cards. The modules I need to access the disks come with standard and Debian kernels. They are not non-free. If you know that they come with Debian's standard kernels and that they're there, is there any obvious reason why they're not included? And then, when you look at http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst, it doesn't tell you that the installer is missing crucial modules to access SATA disks (which are the default nowadays), or where to get missing modules. There are also no floppy disk images of the installer for download (like there used to be), which would allow you do download another disk image containing more modules. Still the installer keeps prompting for a floppy disk and tells you to insert the disk, just to find out that there is no floppy disk drive installed. Have you _seen_ how big kernels are lately? : floppies (even if you can find working floppy disks) ceased to be viable about the time Linux went to kernel version 2.6. Why doesn't the page tell you, like it did when floppy images were available, that you might need more modules and offers you to download another CD image? Why aren't those modules just on the installer CD? I think the release notes mention things like this: the modules probably are on an installer CD: do you know which modules they might be? It's not that the CD image would get too big to fit on a CD or to download --- and if it was, there could always be the minimal installer image for computers older than 4 or 5 years and another one with all that's missing on the minimal image. The installer could also give you instructions about how to get more modules or just download the missing modules automatically during the installation, just like it does with other things. The instructions below are for those things that are explicitly non-free. It's also based on the Lenny installer (which does tell you if non-free firmware is required). Download the .deb on another machine. [Assuming you're using Linux here]. What do you do when you don't have one? Buy a windoze CD and another hard disk, install windoze on that disk, get the needed files, install Debian, sell the windoze CD and disk? If you don't have another machine: borrow a friend who has a USB stick / SD card and access to a Linux machine. Your email address suggests that you may be in .de - which has towns with Linux user groups / internet cafe's. And before you can do that, how do you know where to get the missing kernel modules for the installer, and how do you know which ones are missing? I'd like to know that for the next time I'll try to install. Boot with a live CD? Carry the USB stick across to the machine you need it on. Boot the Lenny installer - at some point the dialog will tell you that you need non-free modules and will ask you for a floppy/USB stick to load the modules from. No, it didn't tell me that it needs modules. It only told me that no disks had been detected. If I hadn't known that a module is missing and that it does work once the right module is available, I could have concluded that Linux is just too old to run on even old (like two or three years) hardware ... Kernel version you are trying to install? Insert the stick when prompted. The installer offers to read modules from a floppy disk, not from an USB device. These modules need to be available to the installer out of the box. It's not like I'd be using some unusual hardware ... What is not unusual to you is unusual to other people :) What is unusual about SATA disks and controllers? Go to your favourite computer store --- now or a year (or even longer) ago --- and try to buy a computer or a mainboard that doesn't have SATA disks or an SATA controller. You'd have a very hard time to find one. I can probably find _at least_ one. Also keep in mind that this was the amd64 installer. Which system
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. You should be able to load them from a USB stick. Maybe it's not fully automatic, but you can switch in another console during installation, mount the disk, and then direct the installer to load from that directory. Well, I don't have an USB stick --- though a card reader instead should work. But how/where do you get the modules? And how do you put them onto the USB device while installing? These modules need to be available to the installer out of the box. It's not like I'd be using some unusual hardware ... -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 03:00:41PM -0600, lee wrote: On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. You should be able to load them from a USB stick. Maybe it's not fully automatic, but you can switch in another console during installation, mount the disk, and then direct the installer to load from that directory. Well, I don't have an USB stick --- though a card reader instead should work. But how/where do you get the modules? And how do you put them onto the USB device while installing? A USB stick is a few Euro :) Go to the non-free archive for Debian packages. Look for firmware-non-free packages. I've recently had to use the bnx2 drivers for Broadcom ethernet cards. Download the .deb on another machine. [Assuming you're using Linux here]. Mount the USB stick - something like mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt cp the .deb to /mnt cp /home/myuser/firmware-bnx2_0.14*deb /mnt/ umount /mnt Carry the USB stick across to the machine you need it on. Boot the Lenny installer - at some point the dialog will tell you that you need non-free modules and will ask you for a floppy/USB stick to load the modules from. Insert the stick when prompted. Remove the stick before the disk detection/disk partitioning stage because it can mess up drive order if the USB stick is detected before real disks and this then tends to put the disk naming/numbering off by one :( These modules need to be available to the installer out of the box. It's not like I'd be using some unusual hardware ... What is not unusual to you is unusual to other people :) The reason that the modules are in non-free is precisely because they have licence conditions or similar which prevent us putting them in the Debian archive proper. HTH, Andy -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 10:29:28AM +0100, Emanoil Kotsev wrote: lee wrote: I'm not sure if I could use a pre-built Debian kernel: the installer couldn't access the SATA disks because it didn't have the module for the controller, and a pre-built standard Debian kernel might not have that, either. The installer uses different kernel, though. I would recommend recompiling kernel, only if you are missing something from the standard one. But may be this is the case for you. Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. something like error on urbs (those are part of usb driver) and loosing permanently one drive from the array. So I talked to the kernel people that helped a bit, but this did not solve the issue. It looks like one of the drives (mostly WesternDigital) looses power, this is what the kernel people said and thus is being lost from the raid array. Hm, a drive shouldn't lose power ... Are your disks from same model and vendor? Yes, they are the same. BTW, I haven't had the problem with the Debian kernel yet, but I was on vacation so that the computer was turned off and the uptime with the new kernel has been only a couple days yet. So it remains to be seen ... -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
lee wrote: Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ... With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway. You should be able to load them from a USB stick. Maybe it's not fully automatic, but you can switch in another console during installation, mount the disk, and then direct the installer to load from that directory. -- I refuse to consign the whole male sex to the nursery. I insist on believing that some men are my equals. -- Brigid Brophy Eduardo M KALINOWSKI edua...@kalinowski.com.br http://move.to/hpkb -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:11:59PM +, Aneurin Price wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:58 AM, lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de wrote: Anyway, if it's a software problem, it's probably not the module for the particular controller but something else. That people with all kinds of different hardware have this problem supports this theory. Hm, and I haven't seen anyone using Debian reporting it ... Is there anybody here who has seen it? This sounds more-or-less like my problem (I'm not using RAID though): http://marc.info/?l=linux-idem=121475606225101w=2 Yeah, the disk just goes offline, and there doesn't seem to be a solution for it. --- Unlike you, I can't fix it with rebooting only; I have to turn off the power to get the disk back. What about the suggestion that the disk should have a ground connection to the chassis? That would be something new, and I find it hard to believe that it should be needed (other than for transfering heat). That's not using vanilla or Debian kernels; it's an Ubuntu machine. I'm including my uptimes list for it if anyone is interested in the length of time it usually takes to manifest. It's the same here --- I don't have a list, but it could take a day, a few days, a week, a few weeks, or a month or two before the disk got lost. However, with my old board, it used to be longer intervals than your list shows, i. e. more often weeks or a month than days. I can't tell for the new board yet. It *seems* to me to be linked with heavy usage, particularly writes, but I'm not convinced this isn't coincidence since I haven't any record of how heavily the disk is in use. It seems to happen to my disk when there's not much or no activity. I may well be able to get it to manifest very quickly by going back to using NFS, but I haven't tried. Hm, the last time I tried NFS, it didn't work at all: The server would freeze up once I tried to transfer larger amounts of data, and afair it had all sorts of other problems (like not actually copying), so I gave up on NFS. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:58 AM, lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de wrote: Anyway, if it's a software problem, it's probably not the module for the particular controller but something else. That people with all kinds of different hardware have this problem supports this theory. Hm, and I haven't seen anyone using Debian reporting it ... Is there anybody here who has seen it? This sounds more-or-less like my problem (I'm not using RAID though): http://marc.info/?l=linux-idem=121475606225101w=2 That's not using vanilla or Debian kernels; it's an Ubuntu machine. As I mentioned in that thread, I've had this problem with that disk and controller pair in two machines. The second is still in use so I'm including my uptimes list for it if anyone is interested in the length of time it usually takes to manifest. I can live without the contents of the disk in question, so I tend to leave it a couple of days (maybe even a week) before rebooting if I have any active screen sessions with state I don't want to lose. The shortest entries are probably reboots for some other reason, but I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of them were just times when this problem arose more quickly than usual. It *seems* to me to be linked with heavy usage, particularly writes, but I'm not convinced this isn't coincidence since I haven't any record of how heavily the disk is in use. I may well be able to get it to manifest very quickly by going back to using NFS, but I haven't tried. -Nye # Uptime | System Boot up +--- 1 3 days, 13:24:55 | Linux 2.6.24-16-serverWed Apr 16 00:41:23 2008 2 2 days, 06:58:58 | Linux 2.6.24-16-serverSat Apr 19 15:55:35 2008 3 5 days, 15:14:19 | Linux 2.6.24-16-serverMon Apr 21 23:15:26 2008 4 1 day , 06:44:25 | Linux 2.6.24-16-serverSun Apr 27 14:30:08 2008 533 days, 22:18:19 | Linux 2.6.24-16-serverMon Apr 28 21:14:56 2008 6 0 days, 00:03:13 | Linux 2.6.24-17-serverSun Jun 1 19:45:24 2008 7 4 days, 16:11:59 | Linux 2.6.24-17-serverSun Jun 1 19:52:44 2008 8 7 days, 02:24:55 | Linux 2.6.24-18-serverFri Jun 6 12:05:06 2008 923 days, 00:41:08 | Linux 2.6.24-18-serverFri Jun 13 14:51:56 2008 10 4 days, 23:08:25 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverSun Jul 6 15:42:50 2008 11 5 days, 09:15:45 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverFri Jul 11 14:51:38 2008 1211 days, 22:14:13 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverThu Jul 17 00:07:46 2008 1323 days, 00:30:30 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverMon Jul 28 22:22:23 2008 1414 days, 20:56:34 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverWed Aug 20 22:56:43 2008 1529 days, 04:27:33 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverThu Sep 4 19:53:41 2008 1618 days, 08:37:48 | Linux 2.6.24-19-serverSat Oct 4 00:21:38 2008 1734 days, 06:11:49 | Linux 2.6.24-21-serverWed Oct 22 09:36:12 2008 1814 days, 08:38:11 | Linux 2.6.24-21-serverTue Nov 25 14:48:24 2008 - 19 5 days, 12:31:38 | Linux 2.6.24-22-serverTue Dec 9 23:26:58 2008 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
Aneurin Price wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:58 AM, lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de wrote: Anyway, if it's a software problem, it's probably not the module for the particular controller but something else. That people with all kinds of different hardware have this problem supports this theory. Hm, and I haven't seen anyone using Debian reporting it ... Is there anybody here who has seen it? This sounds more-or-less like my problem (I'm not using RAID though): http://marc.info/?l=linux-idem=121475606225101w=2 That's not using vanilla or Debian kernels; it's an Ubuntu machine. As I mentioned in that thread, I've had this problem with that disk and controller pair in two machines. The second is still in use so I'm including my uptimes list for it if anyone is interested in the length of time it usually takes to manifest. I can live without the contents of the disk in question, so I tend to leave it a couple of days (maybe even a week) before rebooting if I have any active screen sessions with state I don't want to lose. The shortest entries are probably reboots for some other reason, but I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of them were just times when this problem arose more quickly than usual. It *seems* to me to be linked with heavy usage, particularly writes, but I'm not convinced this isn't coincidence since I haven't any record of how heavily the disk is in use. I may well be able to get it to manifest very quickly by going back to using NFS, but I haven't tried. Yes when the machine goes to some higher load I see a reset on the USB bus and then the disk is dropped. I'm not sure what exactly causes the problem. I talked to the kernel people, but they suggested something on the chipset/disk/cable side. Technicians said that it's possible that this happens because of static electricity, but still without evidence it's only suggested. It's interesting to hear that it happens also if not using raid. regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
lee wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:40:50PM +0100, Emanoil Kotsev wrote: do you have custom kernel or debian stock kernel. Until today, I was using a standard kernel from kernel.org. Today I downloaded the package with the Debian kernel sources (2.6.24, blah etchnhalf or something like that ...), configured it and made a kernel package with make-kpkg kernel_image -us -uc, installed the package I made, and now I'm using that kernel. OK, it's not the newest one but still better as 2.6.18 - let's hope it will solve your problems I'm not sure if I could use a pre-built Debian kernel: the installer couldn't access the SATA disks because it didn't have the module for the controller, and a pre-built standard Debian kernel might not have that, either. The installer uses different kernel, though. I would recommend recompiling kernel, only if you are missing something from the standard one. But may be this is the case for you. What is standard? Please, look that you _don't_ use the ide_generic or ata_generic drivers. so kernel config and lsmod check is worth I think. This we have discussed in other postings. if compiling your own kernel this could be the issue. I would also see what hdparm -tT says I'll attach the .config to this mail. The ide_generic and ata_generic drivers do not work for this board. For the IDE disk, I'm using CONFIG_BLK_DEV_JMICRON: JMicron JMB36x support. The help for that says Basic support for the JMicron ATA controllers. For full support use the libata drivers. But libata is deprecated? And I think I tried that, and it didn't work. For sata, it's CONFIG_SATA_AHCI ... Hm, I don't know about CONFIG_ATA_PIIX: This option enables support for ICH5/6/7/8 Serial ATA and support for PATA on the Intel ESB/ICH/PIIX3/PIIX4 series host controllers. Well, this was just an example. It is an older chipset lspci says ICH9: SATA controller: Intel Corporation 82801IB (ICH9) 4 port SATA AHCI Controller (rev 02). Should I try CONFIG_ATA_PIIX instead (dunno if it works)? this sounds good # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 14464 MB in 2.00 seconds = 7241.58 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 202 MB in 3.02 seconds = 66.83 MB/sec hdpparm -tT /dev/sda /dev/sda: Timing cached reads: 14308 MB in 2.00 seconds = 7164.25 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 208 MB in 3.02 seconds = 68.83 MB/sec this sounds also very good That's about the same as what I see in /proc/mdstat during a rebuild: about 70MB/sec for the partitions at the beginning of the disk, about 65MB/sec for the middle and 40MB/sec for the partition at the end. These disks are pretty slow. A much older, single SCSI disk is faster to read than the SATA RAID-1, maybe not in benchmark numbers but in how long it takes to load something. I've been trying raid over usb for the last couple of months and had similar problems with sata drives and no such problems with ide in usb boxes. Finally no one could explain the reason for the raid loosing the drive and I attached them directly to SATA bus. So far it's working. Hope this information helps Hmm ... What error messages did you get? When the disks were connected via USB, wouldn't you get different messages not related to SATA? something like error on urbs (those are part of usb driver) and loosing permanently one drive from the array. So I talked to the kernel people that helped a bit, but this did not solve the issue. It looks like one of the drives (mostly WesternDigital) looses power, this is what the kernel people said and thus is being lost from the raid array. Are your disks from same model and vendor? regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
2008/12/13 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. bs...@volumehost.net: On Friday 2008 December 12 22:41:17 Adrian Levi wrote: 2008/12/11 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. bs...@volumehost.net: iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear. :( I'm not using any access restrictions on the access point itself, it's basically open. Both the APs I need to deal with regularly are WPA Personal. Mine is an Acer 5920G-3A2G25MN, suspend and resume working flawlessly. Inspiron E1505, and suspend and resume are also working well since I got off the older ifw3945 driver. Mines the 4965 but I have been led to believe that they both suffer the same troubles. What have you been using? The non-free firmware, which troubles me. I was under the impression that free software would drive all the hardware in the laptop, and was a bit disappointed that I needed non-free software to use the wifi. For the next laptop, I will do more research and hopefully get one where all the integrated hardware is driven by free software, Debian (preferably stable) in specific. For me it's also the Nvidia blob driver as well :-( I can get X to work without it but the screen refresh rates are awful, So bad that movies become unwatchable. Adrian -- 24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths? erno hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
2008/12/11 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. bs...@volumehost.net: iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear. :( I have been using 2.6.27.7 for a while now, seems pretty stable. With a plain debian kernel 2.6.26 I would somwtimes have to press the wifi kill switch to kill the driver and press it again to get it to associate with my access point. I'm not using any access restrictions on the access point itself, it's basically open. Mine is an Acer 5920G-3A2G25MN, suspend and resume working flawlessly. What have you been using? -- 24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths? erno hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Friday 2008 December 12 22:41:17 Adrian Levi wrote: 2008/12/11 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. bs...@volumehost.net: iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear. :( I'm not using any access restrictions on the access point itself, it's basically open. Both the APs I need to deal with regularly are WPA Personal. Mine is an Acer 5920G-3A2G25MN, suspend and resume working flawlessly. Inspiron E1505, and suspend and resume are also working well since I got off the older ifw3945 driver. What have you been using? The non-free firmware, which troubles me. I was under the impression that free software would drive all the hardware in the laptop, and was a bit disappointed that I needed non-free software to use the wifi. For the next laptop, I will do more research and hopefully get one where all the integrated hardware is driven by free software, Debian (preferably stable) in specific. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bs...@volumehost.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58:30AM -0600, lee wrote: I've started a long test, but it says it'll take about two hours. I'll let you know the result. cat:/home/lee# smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00% 9160 - # 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 9158 - cat:/home/lee# -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:39:01PM -0600, lee wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58:30AM -0600, lee wrote: I've started a long test, but it says it'll take about two hours. I'll let you know the result. cat:/home/lee# smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00% 9160 - # 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 9158 - cat:/home/lee# well it seems atleast the drives are okay, maybe a faulty cable ? Just seems strange that the debian patches would make a difference (but I could be wrong), especially with stock standard stuff -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- He was a state sponsor of terror. In other words, the government had declared, 'you are a state sponsor of terror.' - George W. Bush 01/23/2006 Manhattan, KS On Saddam Hussein signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
lee wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58:30AM -0600, lee wrote: I've started a long test, but it says it'll take about two hours. I'll let you know the result. cat:/home/lee# smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Extended offlineCompleted without error 00% 9160 # - # 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 9158 # - cat:/home/lee# do you have custom kernel or debian stock kernel. What is standard? Please, look that you _don't_ use the ide_generic or ata_generic drivers. so kernel config and lsmod check is worth I think. This we have discussed in other postings. if compiling your own kernel this could be the issue. I would also see what hdparm -tT says I've been trying raid over usb for the last couple of months and had similar problems with sata drives and no such problems with ide in usb boxes. Finally no one could explain the reason for the raid loosing the drive and I attached them directly to SATA bus. So far it's working. Hope this information helps -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 14:53, Celejar cele...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:21:26 -0600 Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. bs...@volumehost.net wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source. And Debian removes these, even thought they're technically GPL? Any examples? For more than you want to know about binary firmware blobs see the thread Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged 'lenny-ignore'? and related threads on debian devel: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/10/msg00368.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00024.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2008/10/msg00010.html The above threads are perfect examples of why I am subscribed to Debian devel. Cheers, Kelly Clowers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 07:54:58AM +1100, Alex Samad wrote: well it seems atleast the drives are okay, maybe a faulty cable ? Just seems strange that the debian patches would make a difference (but I could be wrong), especially with stock standard stuff Unfortunately, that the selftests don't find something doesn't mean that the drive is ok. It's rather unlikely that it is a cable problem because I'm using different cables now. The disk got lost again over night. I've made another kernel from the Debian sources and will see what happens. --- I'd say it usually happens when the computer is idle; I can put some load on the disks like compiling kernels while the RAID is being rebuild, and everything works just fine. Someone suggested to make a ctrontab entry to write something on the disks like every hour, that's something else I can try. One option I haven't tried yet is to plug both SATA disks into the same channel (i. e. use adjacent plugs). I didn't do that because they might be blocking each other --- this isn't SCSI :( It shouldn't make a difference, but then, who knows? Maybe both disks go offline if I do that ... When they get lost again and I want to send a bug report, about what package should the report be? The kernel source package? -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:35:06 -0800 Kelly Clowers kelly.clow...@gmail.com wrote: ... For more than you want to know about binary firmware blobs see the thread Bug reports of DFSG violations are tagged 'lenny-ignore'? and related threads on debian devel: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/10/msg00368.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/11/msg00024.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2008/10/msg00010.html Thanks for the pointers. Kelly Clowers Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:40:50PM +0100, Emanoil Kotsev wrote: do you have custom kernel or debian stock kernel. Until today, I was using a standard kernel from kernel.org. Today I downloaded the package with the Debian kernel sources (2.6.24, blah etchnhalf or something like that ...), configured it and made a kernel package with make-kpkg kernel_image -us -uc, installed the package I made, and now I'm using that kernel. I'm not sure if I could use a pre-built Debian kernel: the installer couldn't access the SATA disks because it didn't have the module for the controller, and a pre-built standard Debian kernel might not have that, either. What is standard? Please, look that you _don't_ use the ide_generic or ata_generic drivers. so kernel config and lsmod check is worth I think. This we have discussed in other postings. if compiling your own kernel this could be the issue. I would also see what hdparm -tT says I'll attach the .config to this mail. The ide_generic and ata_generic drivers do not work for this board. For the IDE disk, I'm using CONFIG_BLK_DEV_JMICRON: JMicron JMB36x support. The help for that says Basic support for the JMicron ATA controllers. For full support use the libata drivers. But libata is deprecated? And I think I tried that, and it didn't work. For sata, it's CONFIG_SATA_AHCI ... Hm, I don't know about CONFIG_ATA_PIIX: This option enables support for ICH5/6/7/8 Serial ATA and support for PATA on the Intel ESB/ICH/PIIX3/PIIX4 series host controllers. lspci says ICH9: SATA controller: Intel Corporation 82801IB (ICH9) 4 port SATA AHCI Controller (rev 02). Should I try CONFIG_ATA_PIIX instead (dunno if it works)? # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 14464 MB in 2.00 seconds = 7241.58 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 202 MB in 3.02 seconds = 66.83 MB/sec hdpparm -tT /dev/sda /dev/sda: Timing cached reads: 14308 MB in 2.00 seconds = 7164.25 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 208 MB in 3.02 seconds = 68.83 MB/sec That's about the same as what I see in /proc/mdstat during a rebuild: about 70MB/sec for the partitions at the beginning of the disk, about 65MB/sec for the middle and 40MB/sec for the partition at the end. These disks are pretty slow. A much older, single SCSI disk is faster to read than the SATA RAID-1, maybe not in benchmark numbers but in how long it takes to load something. I've been trying raid over usb for the last couple of months and had similar problems with sata drives and no such problems with ide in usb boxes. Finally no one could explain the reason for the raid loosing the drive and I attached them directly to SATA bus. So far it's working. Hope this information helps Hmm ... What error messages did you get? When the disks were connected via USB, wouldn't you get different messages not related to SATA? -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 08:06:12PM -0600, lee wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 07:54:58AM +1100, Alex Samad wrote: well it seems atleast the drives are okay, maybe a faulty cable ? Just seems strange that the debian patches would make a difference (but I could be wrong), especially with stock standard stuff Unfortunately, that the selftests don't find something doesn't mean that the drive is ok. It's rather unlikely that it is a cable problem because I'm using different cables now. bugger The disk got lost again over night. I've made another kernel from the Debian sources and will see what happens. --- I'd say it usually happens when the computer is idle; I can put some load on the disks like compiling kernels while the RAID is being rebuild, and everything works just fine. Someone suggested to make a ctrontab entry to write something on the disks like every hour, that's something else I can try. One option I haven't tried yet is to plug both SATA disks into the same channel (i. e. use adjacent plugs). I didn't do that because they might be blocking each other --- this isn't SCSI :( It shouldn't make a difference, but then, who knows? Maybe both disks go offline if I do that ... maybe its a port (on the mother board) The other thought that came to mind, maybe be a bit far fetch, is the drive going into powersaving mode ? what shows up in dmesg when the drive dies, do you see any sata resets or ??? When they get lost again and I want to send a bug report, about what package should the report be? The kernel source package? -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org -- If you lose your temper at a newspaper columnist, he'll get rich, or famous or both. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 02:58:55PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 08:06:12PM -0600, lee wrote:
One option I haven't tried yet is to plug both SATA disks into the
same channel (i. e. use adjacent plugs). I didn't do that because they
might be blocking each other --- this isn't SCSI :( It shouldn't make
a difference, but then, who knows? Maybe both disks go offline if I do
that ...
maybe its a port (on the mother board)
Well, I had the same problem with my old motherboard.
The other thought that came to mind, maybe be a bit far fetch, is the
drive going into powersaving mode ?
I tried that by putting it to sleep with hdparm. It woke up just fine.
what shows up in dmesg when the drive dies, do you see any sata resets
or ???
[...]
Dec 11 02:39:02 cat /USR/SBIN/CRON[19809]: (root) CMD ( [ -x
/usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime ] [ -d /var/lib/php5 ] find /var/lib/php5/
-type f -cmin +$(/usr/lib/php5/maxlifetime) -print0 | xargs -n 200 -r -0 rm)
Dec 11 02:49:29 cat kernel: ata5.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0
action 0x6 frozen
Dec 11 02:49:29 cat kernel: ata5.00: cmd ea/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0
tag 0
Dec 11 02:49:29 cat kernel: res 40/00:00:00:4f:c2/00:00:00:c2:00/00
Emask 0x4 (timeout)
Dec 11 02:49:29 cat kernel: ata5.00: status: { DRDY }
Dec 11 02:49:29 cat kernel: ata5: hard resetting link
Dec 11 02:49:30 cat kernel: ata5: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 300)
Dec 11 02:49:35 cat kernel: ata5: hard resetting link
Dec 11 02:49:35 cat kernel: ata5: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 300)
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: ata5: hard resetting link
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: ata5: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 300)
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: ata5.00: disabled
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev sdb, sector 478543967
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: md: super_written gets error=-5, uptodate=0
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: raid1: Disk failure on sdb2, disabling device.
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: raid1: Operation continuing on 1 devices.
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: ata5: EH complete
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: ata5.00: detaching (SCSI 4:0:0:0)
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Synchronizing SCSI cache
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Result: hostbyte=0x04
driverbyte=0x00
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Stopping disk
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] START_STOP FAILED
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: sd 4:0:0:0: [sdb] Result: hostbyte=0x04
driverbyte=0x00
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: RAID1 conf printout:
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: --- wd:1 rd:2
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: disk 0, wo:0, o:1, dev:sda2
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: disk 1, wo:1, o:0, dev:sdb2
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: RAID1 conf printout:
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: --- wd:1 rd:2
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat kernel: disk 0, wo:0, o:1, dev:sda2
Dec 11 02:49:40 cat mdadm[1891]: Fail event detected on md device /dev/md1,
component device /dev/sdb2
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: scsi 4:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to dead device
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: scsi 4:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to dead device
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev sdb, sector 146496512
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: md: super_written gets error=-5, uptodate=0
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: raid1: Disk failure on sdb1, disabling device.
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: raid1: Operation continuing on 1 devices.
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: RAID1 conf printout:
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: --- wd:1 rd:2
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: disk 0, wo:0, o:1, dev:sda1
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: disk 1, wo:1, o:0, dev:sdb1
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: RAID1 conf printout:
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: --- wd:1 rd:2
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat kernel: disk 0, wo:0, o:1, dev:sda1
Dec 11 03:06:38 cat mdadm[1891]: Fail event detected on md device /dev/md0,
component device /dev/sdb1
Dec 11 03:06:40 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/sdb, No such device, open()
failed
Dec 11 03:06:40 cat smartd[1797]: Sending warning via
/usr/share/smartmontools/smartd-runner to root ...
Dec 11 03:06:41 cat smartd[1797]: Warning via
/usr/share/smartmontools/smartd-runner to root: successful
[...]
Dec 11 03:36:40 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/hdb, SMART Usage Attribute: 194
Temperature_Celsius changed from 113 to 112
Dec 11 03:36:40 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/sda, SMART Usage Attribute: 190
Airflow_Temperature_Cel changed from 72 to 71
Dec 11 03:36:40 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/sdb, No such device, open()
failed
[...]
Dec 11 04:06:40 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/sdb, No such device, open()
failed
[...]
Dec 11 04:36:40 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/hdb, SMART Usage Attribute: 194
Temperature_Celsius changed from 112 to 113
Dec 11 04:36:41 cat smartd[1797]: Device: /dev/sdb, No such device, open()
failed
[...]
Dec 11 05:06:40 cat
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. So is there a difference between Debian and standard kernels so that I might not have this problem if I'd use a Debian kernel? Not that I know of. Has this problem been solved in some way yet? Not that I know of. You (or someone else that can reliably reproduce the problem -- perhaps some paid support personnel) need to work with the kernel developers to identify why the kernel is losing the drive and if it is due to a bug in the kernel or some hardware issue that can be worked around in the kernel. Yeah, it's a problem, but it's virtually impossible to diagnose that kind of error without instrumenting (jargon: attaching real-/run-time sensors to) the kernel and reproducing the problem, many times. Causing the kernel to dump (similar to a process coredumping, but the whole kernel) when some symptom (super_written get error = -5, maybe?) manifests might give you an image that a kernel hacker could perform a post-mortem on. Enough dumps might show a pattern. If you can find a kernel that does work, you might be able to do a git bisect and identify the patch(es) that broke you -- but that would certainly be a project. How much resources do you want to spend on fixing the problem? (If you kick in enough, I'll bet the kernel hackers will kick in some, too.) -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA How does being physically handicapped make me Differently-Abled? What different abilities do I have? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 04:05:26PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: So is there a difference between Debian and standard kernels so that I might not have this problem if I'd use a Debian kernel? Not that I know of. Hm, maybe I'll just try one and see what happens. Yeah, it's a problem, but it's virtually impossible to diagnose that kind of error without instrumenting (jargon: attaching real-/run-time sensors to) the kernel and reproducing the problem, many times. It's not something I could reproduce, it just happens for no apparent reason, at unregular intervals. Causing the kernel to dump (similar to a process coredumping, but the whole kernel) when some symptom (super_written get error = -5, maybe?) manifests might give you an image that a kernel hacker could perform a post-mortem on. Enough dumps might show a pattern. Hm. It seems that there is already an attempt made to recover from this error, so that might be a place to somehow put a hook on. The problem is that the recovery attempt doesn't work; the only thing that works is turning the power off and back on. If you can find a kernel that does work, you might be able to do a git bisect and identify the patch(es) that broke you -- but that would certainly be a project. Well, that would go back about 4 years or so --- it might be in there since they switched away from libata (or whatever happened). How much resources do you want to spend on fixing the problem? (If you kick in enough, I'll bet the kernel hackers will kick in some, too.) I can spend some time on it, try out different kernels, maybe get it to produce dumps ... But I don't know where I would start, other than looking at the source --- which probably won't tell me anything. But I'm wondering how many people have this problem. There are probably lots of people with SATA disks, and if most of them had this problem, it might have already heen solved. If lots of people have SATA disks but don't have this problem, I might get away with getting new disks. But maybe lots of people have it and just live with it? Or maybe there are not so many people with SATA disks? The Debian amd64 installer wasn't even able to install on SATA disks because the kernel module for the controller wasn't available, and I don't have any unusual hardware. I had to install on the IDE disk I wanted to get rid of instead --- and next time I'll get a new board, it might not have any IDE connectors and I'll be screwed when trying to install ... -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:21:26 -0600 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source. And Debian removes these, even thought they're technically GPL? Any examples? Ron Johnson, Jr. Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On 12/10/08 16:53, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:21:26 -0600 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source. And Debian removes these, even thought they're technically GPL? Any examples? Not that I know of (since I don't use WiFi or anything exotic). -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA How does being physically handicapped make me Differently-Abled? What different abilities do I have? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
also sprach lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008.12.10.2215 +0100]: I'm using a standard kernel, but I'm having problems with one of my disks (see below). [...] So is there a difference between Debian and standard kernels so that I might not have this problem if I'd use a Debian kernel? Has this problem been solved in some way yet? You don't provide much information. How about you try the Debian kernels and see if the problem persists? -- .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Related projects: : :' : proud Debian developer http://debiansystem.info `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems remember, half the people are below average. digital_signature_gpg.asc Description: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/)
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:10:16 Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Different interpretations of the GPLv2, I suppose. Linus seems fine with binary blobs -- basically machine codes -- that are uploaded to devices as part of initialization. The kernel never directly runs such code. The source as far as Linus is concerned is the data itself, similar to the way a image might be it's own source. [1] Debian focuses more on the mutability of the code, and the intent of the GPL that source code means the preferred form for making modifications. It's been too long since I read the GPLv2 to see how explicit that is, but the GPLv3 did make that much more clear. It's unlikely that this machine code, is developed directly in hex (or octal, or whatever numerical format). It's more likely compiled using a specialized compiler (maybe C, maybe a toy language) or, at least, some sort of symbolic assembler. Even if it is just symbolic assembly, it would be preferred over the raw machine code for studying and (possibly) modifying. Anyway, that's why Debian sometimes removes features from the vanilla kernel -- the considered (voted on, IIRC) opinion that those parts do not follow the DFSG. [1] A lot of images aren't their own source. Gimp, Krita, Karbon, Inkscape, Photoshop, etc. use a format that is better for editing (the source) even if they also save to more traditional image formats like GIF, PNG, and JPEG. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:57:39 Ron Johnson wrote: On 12/10/08 16:53, Celejar wrote: Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote: Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 15:15:56 lee wrote: what's the difference between a standard kernel and a kernel that comes as a Debian package? The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source. And Debian removes these, even thought they're technically GPL? Any examples? Not that I know of (since I don't use WiFi or anything exotic). iwl3945 -- My personal cross to bear. :( -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:16:24 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Different interpretations of the GPLv2, I suppose. Linus seems fine with ... Anyway, that's why Debian sometimes removes features from the vanilla kernel -- the considered (voted on, IIRC) opinion that those parts do not follow the DFSG. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:52:03 lee wrote: But I'm wondering how many people have this problem. There are probably lots of people with SATA disks, and if most of them had this problem, it might have already heen solved. If lots of people have SATA disks but don't have this problem, I might get away with getting new disks. But maybe lots of people have it and just live with it? Two WD Raptors connected via SATA to my Tyan motherboard in my desktop since 2005. No drops. A varying number of Hitachi drives (both 500G and 1000G) connected via SATA to my Areca PCI-X controller. No drops. If you can find enough people with the same problems and co-ordinate, you might be able to reduce the amount of effort each of you put forward. If time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days? -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 16:21:26 -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: On 12/10/08 16:10, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:05:26 -0600 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: [...] The Debian kernel has some non-free (as in: source not available) parts removed. There are also Debian-specific patches added. The vanilla kernel has non-free stuff in it? I thought it's all GPL. Some drivers have firmware blobs encoded in them as really long byte arrays. They are de jure GPL, but, practically, are closed source. Some of these blobs seem to have quite serious license problems, e.g.: http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10750 AFAICT, upstream might eventually have to remove such blobs as well, or at least try harder to make sure that they were indeed licensed by the copyright holder for distribution in the kernel. It seems reasonable to me that Debian tries to be extra careful in these cases, keeping in mind the 100% free guarantee in the social contract. -- Regards,| http://users.icfo.es/Florian.Kulzer Florian | -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 06:30:02PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:52:03 lee wrote: But I'm wondering how many people have this problem. There are probably lots of people with SATA disks, and if most of them had this problem, it might have already heen solved. If lots of people have SATA disks but don't have this problem, I might get away with getting new disks. But maybe lots of people have it and just live with it? Two WD Raptors connected via SATA to my Tyan motherboard in my desktop since 2005. No drops. A varying number of Hitachi drives (both 500G and 1000G) connected via SATA to my Areca PCI-X controller. No drops. Hm, so I might just have bad luck with (one of) these disks. If you can find enough people with the same problems and co-ordinate, you might be able to reduce the amount of effort each of you put forward. If time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days? I'd say 1/2 year in this case. -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:06:27AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008.12.10.2215 +0100]: I'm using a standard kernel, but I'm having problems with one of my disks (see below). [...] So is there a difference between Debian and standard kernels so that I might not have this problem if I'd use a Debian kernel? Has this problem been solved in some way yet? You don't provide much information. Well, I can provide more. What information do I need to provide? How about you try the Debian kernels and see if the problem persists? Yeah, I'll probably do that next time it happens. For now, I've used hdparm to disable the powermanagement --- not that I enabled it, but I'll just have to see if it makes a difference. -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wednesday 2008 December 10 19:14:37 lee wrote: On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 06:30:02PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: If time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days? I'd say 1/2 year in this case. Without some help from others, you probably won't be able to check kernels as fast as they release new ones, so start looking for help. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 07:30:40PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 19:14:37 lee wrote: On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 06:30:02PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: If time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days? I'd say 1/2 year in this case. Without some help from others, you probably won't be able to check kernels as fast as they release new ones, so start looking for help. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:15:56PM -0600, lee wrote: Hi, [snip] smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Maxtor MaXLine III family (SATA/300) Device Model: Maxtor 7V300F0 Serial Number:V604E3FG Firmware Version: VA111630 User Capacity:300,090,728,448 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0 Local Time is:Wed Dec 10 15:00:04 2008 CST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled cat:/home/lee# smartctl -i /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Maxtor MaXLine III family (SATA/300) Device Model: Maxtor 7V300F0 Serial Number:V601T7VG Firmware Version: VA111630 User Capacity:300,090,728,448 bytes Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0 Local Time is:Wed Dec 10 15:00:42 2008 CST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled have you tried smartctl -H device and smartctl -t short|long device tried changing the cable ? [snip] -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- May cause drowsiness. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 07:14:37PM -0600, lee wrote: On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 06:30:02PM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: On Wednesday 2008 December 10 16:52:03 lee wrote: If you can find enough people with the same problems and co-ordinate, you might be able to reduce the amount of effort each of you put forward. If time is what it takes to reproduce, that's fine -- just figure out what a good upper bound is. Is 1 day long enough without drops long enough to say the kernel is good? 7 days? 30 days? I'd say 1/2 year in this case. In Stable (Etch), new kernels come out far more frequently than that. Since you have to reboot to get the new kernel, even without a power-cycle, anyone who keeps their system up-to-date likely won't be able to provide anecdotal evidence of their system _not_ loosing a drive, since the uptime is never that long. Why haven't you been keeping the kernel up-to-date? Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:37:57PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote: have you tried smartctl -H device and smartctl -t short|long device Yes, there doesn't seem to be anything unusual: cat:/home/lee# smartctl -H /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED cat:/home/lee# smartctl -t short /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF OFFLINE IMMEDIATE AND SELF-TEST SECTION === Sending command: Execute SMART Short self-test routine immediately in off-line mode. Drive command Execute SMART Short self-test routine immediately in off-line mode successful. Testing has begun. Please wait 2 minutes for test to complete. Test will complete after Wed Dec 10 23:53:43 2008 Use smartctl -X to abort test. cat:/home/lee# smartctl -l selftest /dev/sdb smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_DescriptionStatus Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 9158 - I've started a long test, but it says it'll take about two hours. I'll let you know the result. BTW, what is this value for lifetime hours? It's the same value as smartctl -A reports for Power_On_Hours, but /sda has 9663 and /sdb has 9158. Both values would have to be identical if they represent what their name suggests: These disks have always been powered or turned off at the same time, with no exceptions. Their actual power on hours are identical, if not to the second, the at least to the minute. There's no way they could differ by 500 hours. --- Digging in my mails turned up that they were probably bought in April 2006; they have been used until June 2007 and then not been used until about this month. That makes for about 9.5k hours. cat:/home/lee# smartctl -A /dev/sda ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 226 226 000Old_age Always - 9663 cat:/home/lee# smartctl -A /dev/sdb 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 227 227 000Old_age Always - 9158 tried changing the cable ? Yes, I'm using different cables that came with the new board. The old board (Asus A8N-SLI with an AMD64-4000) had a totally different chipset as well: :00:08.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation CK804 Serial ATA Controller (rev f3) The kernel version was 2.6.16.2 when the disks were new, using the sata_nv (or nv_sata) module. The new board is a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L with a 3GHz Intel Dual-Core. And the AMD was actually a bit faster, if you consider the CPU alone ... Anyway, if it's a software problem, it's probably not the module for the particular controller but something else. That people with all kinds of different hardware have this problem supports this theory. Hm, and I haven't seen anyone using Debian reporting it ... Is there anybody here who has seen it? -- Don't let them, daddy. Don't let the stars run down. http://adin.dyndns.org/adin/TheLastQ.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
