Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/29/08 20:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). While I'm too young to have used an ASR33, I'm old enough to have used typewriters, and fart with dot matrix printers by sending only ^M after the line, and watching lines print over each other. (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis., Mr. Spock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkhbvPwACgkQS9HxQb37XmfFAQCggZp/gAfNPpgmTViLcSiTpr18 PC8AoONLIFHzXmVNk7KeBJQ34bFQwMSg =fbG7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/29/08 20:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). While I'm too young to have used an ASR33, I'm old enough to have used typewriters, and fart with dot matrix printers by sending only ^M after the line, and watching lines print over each other. So shame on me. (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. And the pre-OSX Macs used ^M as line separator. Regarding a mess-up, I disagree. When looking for EOL, it's far easier to scan for a single byte than for a ^M^J pair. Unix, having print spools and drivers, was (since there are so few text-only printers anymore) easily able to notice a \n in the data stream and replace it with a ^M^J. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis., Mr. Spock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkhbvRAACgkQS9HxQb37XmdZsQCg4LXw5322GLLEDj9Oq+enjVh8 mccAoO0le7lFfvWOYczphHw2ALQGu4EE =Ksly -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 04:47:50PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Douglas A. Tutty wrote: IIRC, each [FORTRAN punch] card had a sequence number. Paul Scott writes: That a choice which got in the way of the development stage. Who wanted to punch a whole new deck for each small change? IIRC the numbers did not have to be sequential. That is, you could use 10 20 30 ... and then replace 20 with 15, 20, and 25 when you made a change. The card sorter just put the cards in ascending order. Isn't that where line numbers came from? Since each line would have corresponded to a card? I know that Fortran didn't have every single line numbered (only for e.g. gotos), but I'm assuming that this is where BASIC got the idea. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows
I wrote: IIRC the numbers did not have to be sequential. That is, you could use 10 20 30 ... and then replace 20 with 15, 20, and 25 when you made a change. The card sorter just put the cards in ascending order. Douglas A. Tutty wrote: Isn't that where line numbers came from? Since each line would have corresponded to a card? I know that Fortran didn't have every single line numbered (only for e.g. gotos), but I'm assuming that this is where BASIC got the idea. The sequence numbers were punched in columns 73-80, which FORTRAN did not use. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 06:54:42PM +1000, Adrian Levi wrote: 2008/5/30 Russell L. Harris : I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. It must have been fun to watch someone play pickup 500 and put them all back in order again. IIRC, each card had a sequence number. That a choice which got in the way of the development stage. Who wanted to punch a whole new deck for each small change? Paul Scott -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Douglas A. Tutty wrote: IIRC, each [FORTRAN punch] card had a sequence number. Paul Scott writes: That a choice which got in the way of the development stage. Who wanted to punch a whole new deck for each small change? IIRC the numbers did not have to be sequential. That is, you could use 10 20 30 ... and then replace 20 with 15, 20, and 25 when you made a change. The card sorter just put the cards in ascending order. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 08:57:42AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug writes: IIRC, each card had a sequence number. I don't know if they had card-sorter machines. Yes, of course we had sorters. Card sorting machines are much older than computers: it's what punch cards were invented for. Ask Wikipedia to tell you about Herman Hollerith. Don't you kids study history? -- John Hasler As I recall Hollerith developed the card reader which also sorted cards and his special punched card format for the census bureau in the US. The bureau is required by law to take a census every 4(I think) years. The data had become so voluminous that they were unable to tabulate the data from the last survey before it was time for the next survey. Hollerith used his invention to start a company which became IBM Larry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom The Jacquard Loom is a mechanical loom, invented by Joseph Marie Jacquard in 1801 http://www.eingang.org/Lecture/index.html punched cards in connection with computing in 1890 by Herman Hollerith -- Chris. == One, with God, is always a majority, but many a martyr has been burned at the stake while the votes were being counted. -- Thomas B. Reed -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
There are more intelligent text editors for Window$ than notepad. Try using one called Textpad. http://www.textpad.com . It intelligently detects if the file was saved on a Unix, windows, or Mac system and correctly displays the contents. I am registered user of Textpad from days when I used to do Circuit Board design, back when I could still get a position doing that. I needed a text editor that could read in files from, and save back out to, the Sun Sparc stations the company I worked for had, plus it needed to have a decent search mode. Google for what might be best suited for what you want to use it for. Well there you are. Hope this helps. On Friday, 30 May 2008 12:26 am, L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? -- L.V.Gandhi http://lvgandhi.tripod.com/ linux user No.205042 -- Best Regards Walt L. Williams http://www.intergate.com/~waltwilliams/ . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
John Hasler wrote: Doug writes: IIRC, each card had a sequence number. I don't know if they had card-sorter machines. Yes, of course we had sorters. Card sorting machines are much older than computers: it's what punch cards were invented for. Ask Wikipedia to tell you about Herman Hollerith. Don't you kids study history? or this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card now for extra credit: which came first, the punched card or paper tape? (hint: search on Jacquard Loom and Basile Bouchon) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Doug writes: IIRC, each card had a sequence number. I don't know if they had card-sorter machines. Yes, of course we had sorters. Card sorting machines are much older than computers: it's what punch cards were invented for. Ask Wikipedia to tell you about Herman Hollerith. Don't you kids study history? -- John Hasler As I recall Hollerith developed the card reader which also sorted cards and his special punched card format for the census bureau in the US. The bureau is required by law to take a census every 4(I think) years. The data had become so voluminous that they were unable to tabulate the data from the last survey before it was time for the next survey. Hollerith used his invention to start a company which became IBM Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Larry Owens wrote: I also remember when one had to put two STOP bits at the end of each ASCII character transmitted to allow the print ball time to return to its resting position in advance of the next character That's not the reason for using two stop bits. -- John Hasler John That's what I had been told. What's your take? Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug writes: IIRC, each card had a sequence number. I don't know if they had card-sorter machines. Yes, of course we had sorters. Card sorting machines are much older than computers: it's what punch cards were invented for. Ask Wikipedia to tell you about Herman Hollerith. Don't you kids study history? -- John Hasler As I recall Hollerith developed the card reader which also sorted cards and his special punched card format for the census bureau in the US. The bureau is required by law to take a census every 4(I think) years. The data had become so voluminous that they were unable to tabulate the data from the last survey before it was time for the next survey. Hollerith used his invention to start a company which became IBM Larry The census is taken every 10 years. -- Marc Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/30/08 21:17, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: [snip] However, I'm of the opinion firmly that the lessons and skills learned in those times which became the mainframe culture gives rise to a different type of sysadmin than unix does. Even in the same company. I've known IBM people and the AIX types are fundamentally different than the (now) Z/OS types. Unfortunaly, I haven't collected enough quarters [1] from them to join the ranks. My opinion on that is that Unix as always been predominately weighted towards interactive and daemon processes, whereas mainframes were/are weighted towards batch jobs (even CICS is a batch job), batch queues and job schedulers. Cron really is a poor substitute for batch queues and a job scheduler. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis., Mr. Spock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIQZJrS9HxQb37XmcRAt7cAKCm8YcbMFhvqfMTGp9NN/ieUIfksACfeOXO bPCnzN5nklJvYot3i3LFfcw= =Ui1o -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 01:01:15PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/30/08 21:17, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: [snip] However, I'm of the opinion firmly that the lessons and skills learned in those times which became the mainframe culture gives rise to a different type of sysadmin than unix does. Even in the same company. I've known IBM people and the AIX types are fundamentally different than the (now) Z/OS types. Unfortunaly, I haven't collected enough quarters [1] from them to join the ranks. My opinion on that is that Unix as always been predominately weighted towards interactive and daemon processes, whereas mainframes were/are weighted towards batch jobs (even CICS is a batch job), batch queues and job schedulers. Cron really is a poor substitute for batch queues and a job scheduler. But you confuse an OS (e.g. UNIX) on the one hand with hardware (e.g. mainframe) on the other. Sure, that used to be the case but now you have zVM with hundreds (thousands?) of VMs each running the OS most appropriate for the job, e.g. AIX, or Debian, zOS. I agree that the OSs have their focus and e.g. people would rather sit down to a bash prompt than a whatever-it-is in VMS, MVS, zOS, etc. Perhaps mainframe types are the people who can think in acronyms and the Unix types are the people who can think in conjoined words and shortforms (e.g. umount, rm, mv). Perhaps its the virtuality of services since the virtual machine is implemented largely in hardware. The mainframe types provide virtual machines for the individual vm administrators to administrate remotely. A hardware change can be transparent to the vm admin and service users. It may also breed a more cautious approach; crashing a mainframe can be like hitting the emergency power cutoff in a data center full of thousands of unix rackmount hosts. rm) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/31/08 19:16, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 01:01:15PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/30/08 21:17, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: [snip] However, I'm of the opinion firmly that the lessons and skills learned in those times which became the mainframe culture gives rise to a different type of sysadmin than unix does. Even in the same company. I've known IBM people and the AIX types are fundamentally different than the (now) Z/OS types. Unfortunaly, I haven't collected enough quarters [1] from them to join the ranks. My opinion on that is that Unix as always been predominately weighted towards interactive and daemon processes, whereas mainframes were/are weighted towards batch jobs (even CICS is a batch job), batch queues and job schedulers. Cron really is a poor substitute for batch queues and a job scheduler. But you confuse an OS (e.g. UNIX) on the one hand with hardware (e.g. mainframe) on the other. Sure, that used to be the case but now you have zVM with hundreds (thousands?) of VMs each running the OS most My remembrance of the mainframe *is* pretty old school: a 4381 running a couple of DOS/VSE/SP instances, and a few of us logging into VM/CMS running REXX scripts connecting async modems to virtual card readers. And teaching me what an amazingly productive language that COBOL is when used by experts. appropriate for the job, e.g. AIX, or Debian, zOS. I agree that the OSs have their focus and e.g. people would rather sit down to a bash prompt than a whatever-it-is in VMS, MVS, zOS, etc. DCL rocks!!! But editing in VM/CMS on a 3278 was aggravating. Doing the same on a PC with emulator software and a communications card was downright painful. That's probably why greenbar printouts were so popular... Perhaps mainframe types are the people who can think in acronyms and the Unix types are the people who can think in conjoined words and shortforms (e.g. umount, rm, mv). Perhaps its the virtuality of services since the virtual machine is implemented largely in hardware. The mainframe types provide virtual machines for the individual vm administrators to administrate remotely. A hardware change can be transparent to the vm admin and service users. It may also breed a more cautious approach; crashing a mainframe can be like hitting the emergency power cutoff in a data center full of thousands of unix rackmount hosts. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis., Mr. Spock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIQfEqS9HxQb37XmcRAoZiAJsGV+FWgZSHbboB+/+EQfUtUt3cmgCgkdRc feWrBsRnk/myiqbVIRdCJ3M= =kzCP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 2008/5/30 Russell L. Harris : I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. It must have been fun to watch someone play pickup 500 and put them all back in order again. Adrian - -- 24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths? hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iQEVAwUBSD/ArqTxsRnrwUbcAQIIgAf/RnDUu2ufiVT0NY/H5MQeSZ4jwzBEQUk9 lzumMJ2BSuwRpv8BBbp2Migp56TPnS6u/Sc1B5I/Zyjb2dOLmHYg441T90cDbckS URLxFtlQF7krP5jUd6DIjWT0blKq1NRv0rRSvOygpn8oyYyH7aT6ZEg4j1fBlRx2 dN7W93NnfJubDDshrFq2/JVUZgeRwiayzZNGA0CpVh5LyjRNnELsVJOFCEujiXA5 esWK+8Y37W6ihWPYWe0+lkFV2gvoN8TFl+nMqv6mtI2Hscd1gNY2QNMusrxvsyEV li7IrzWs+h7DDOnT+A/SlwZB0sdjh+FQ6nQs/z7Xo2MkWgu81TlBZg== =eoJ+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Miles Fidelman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline Miles Fidelman maybe someone allready answerd but ... unix default line brake is ASCII 10 and windows is 13. You can use unix2dos or tofrodos to change it. -- -- Could you at least use man ? Jabka Atu (aka mha13/Mashrom Head) || bsh83.blogspot.com -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
# IN UNIX ENVIRONMENT: convert Unix newlines (LF) to DOS format sed s/$/`echo -e \\\r`/# command line under ksh sed 's/$'/`echo \\\r`/ # command line under bash sed s/$/`echo \\\r`/ # command line under zsh sed 's/$/\r/'# gsed 3.02.80 Hope this helps! On [DATE], [NAME] [ADDRESS] wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline Miles Fidelman maybe someone allready answerd but ... unix default line brake is ASCII 10 and windows is 13. You can use unix2dos or tofrodos to change it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
* Adrian Levi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080530 03:56]: 2008/5/30 Russell L. Harris : I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. It must have been fun to watch someone play pickup 500 and put them all back in order again. Back then, many a student made himself a personal copy of the compiler (a stack of punch cards about twelve inches high) and carried it along each time he went to to the computing center, rather than risk using the public copy of the compiler which was kept at the computing center. I may still have my copy. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Adrian writes: It must have been fun to watch someone play pickup 500 and put them all back in order again. That's what the card sorter was for. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Adrian Levi wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 2008/5/30 Russell L. Harris : I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. It must have been fun to watch someone play pickup 500 and put them all back in order again. Been there. Done that. Didn't get a T-shirt. My final project for my Fortran class was a deck of about 750 cards by the time I finished. It did get dropped at least once and was probably about 500+ cards at the time. This was a bit later, in time -- mid 70's using Fortran IV and Fortran-G on an IBM 360. -- Marc Shapiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 05:56:43AM +0530, L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? I summarizes these tricks here: http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/getwiki/html/ch12.en.html#eolconversion -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CRLF (was Re: text file from Linux to windows.)
Andrew Reid wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 21:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) I don't recall it being THE standard, but I recall that numerous research Unix servers used to have DECwriter consoles as late as the mid-1980s. That's true, there were always Flexowriters, and all the IBM stuff :-) These had one small advantage over modern consoles, namely, they were pretty loud. Sysadmins could use this to simulate psychic powers -- when the server wrote an error message to its console, you could hear it, subtly but distinctly, from several rooms away. You could then announce to your less-attentive colleagues, there's a server problem, and they'd never figure out how you knew. Not that I ever did that. Purely hypothetical, you understand. But of course :-) I still recall learning to touch type on an ASR33 (connected to an old DG Nova as I recall, circa 1970 or so) - there was a 1/2 second delay between striking a key, and the character being written, and it was just about as hard to hit a key as on a manual typewriter. The first time I used a real electric typewriter (IBM Selectric), boy did that mess up my timing. As I recall the reason for the delay was that the system used a form of error detection called echoplex-the character was sent to the computer and echoed at the computer back to the TTY at which point it was printed. The human was the detect and correct mechanism. Obviously this mechanism was outdated the minute the TTY was moved any distance from the computer. Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline Miles Fidelman I also remember when one had to put two STOP bits at the end of each ASCII character transmitted to allow the print ball time to return to its resting position in advance of the next character Larry Owens -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Osamu Aoki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 05:56:43AM +0530, L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? I summarizes these tricks here: http://people.debian.org/~osamu/pub/getwiki/html/ch12.en.html#eolconversion Thank you very much. -- L.V.Gandhi http://lvgandhi.tripod.com/ linux user No.205042 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:35:41AM -0500, Russell L. Harris wrote: * Miles Fidelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080529 23:28]: Back about 1967, the ASR33 was coveted by those of us whose only means of input and output was the 80-column punch card. Output?, you say? Yes. For printed output, you put the deck of output cards into the card hopper of the line printer -- the chassis of which was a cube about four feet on a side. But inasmuch as the printer broke down on a daily basis, you quickly learned to read the holes in the cards. I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. And with such computers, we went to the moon. I mean we generically: I was a year old in 1967. However, I remember in high-school having multiple-choice exams where we had to code punch cards with a 4B pencil. By the time I needed to learn fortran, it was chaper to buy a new IBM PS/2-70-A21 386 with 4 MB ram, OS/2, and Fortran than it was to buy the computer time from the university; just barely. When I also had to do AutoCad it was defintely cheaper even after buying AutoCad. Of course, I'm typing this on my VT520. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 06:54:42PM +1000, Adrian Levi wrote: 2008/5/30 Russell L. Harris : I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. It must have been fun to watch someone play pickup 500 and put them all back in order again. IIRC, each card had a sequence number. I don't know if they had card-sorter machines. That was the thing, every function to apply to a set of cards was a different machine. However, I'm of the opinion firmly that the lessons and skills learned in those times which became the mainframe culture gives rise to a different type of sysadmin than unix does. Even in the same company. I've known IBM people and the AIX types are fundamentally different than the (now) Z/OS types. Unfortunaly, I haven't collected enough quarters [1] from them to join the ranks. Doug. [1] from the famous joke here's a quarter kid, go buy yourself a real computer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 08:49:07AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also remember when one had to put two STOP bits at the end of each ASCII character transmitted to allow the print ball time to return to its resting position in advance of the next character Larry Owens Yeah, and it only took 5 bits per character (baudot) instead of 7 for ASCII or now however-many for unicode. Progress. I wonder which would take less room on disk: 1000 emails in baudot or in ascii after gziping? Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Doug writes: IIRC, each card had a sequence number. I don't know if they had card-sorter machines. Yes, of course we had sorters. Card sorting machines are much older than computers: it's what punch cards were invented for. Ask Wikipedia to tell you about Herman Hollerith. Don't you kids study history? -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Larry Owens wrote: I also remember when one had to put two STOP bits at the end of each ASCII character transmitted to allow the print ball time to return to its resting position in advance of the next character That's not the reason for using two stop bits. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. -- Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Explaination of .pgp part: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Mail/rant-gpg.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis., Mr. Spock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIP1DDS9HxQb37XmcRAvnhAJ9WY4QclNxplXOLogiILB65BHBG6wCgkyRu OS6EE0JUn4+UsISp6x/5hvU= =9BN1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline Miles Fidelman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CRLF (was Re: text file from Linux to windows.)
On Thursday 29 May 2008 21:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) I don't recall it being THE standard, but I recall that numerous research Unix servers used to have DECwriter consoles as late as the mid-1980s. These had one small advantage over modern consoles, namely, they were pretty loud. Sysadmins could use this to simulate psychic powers -- when the server wrote an error message to its console, you could hear it, subtly but distinctly, from several rooms away. You could then announce to your less-attentive colleagues, there's a server problem, and they'd never figure out how you knew. Not that I ever did that. Purely hypothetical, you understand. -- A. -- Andrew Reid / [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Thursday 29 May 2008, Miles Fidelman wrote: Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) One reason for that was that it took extra time to do a carriage return. Having a non-printing character required after a CR made sure that the carriage had returned before printing another character. Remember .. those things had no buffer. The character decoding was completely mechanical. The electrical feed consisted of a current loop that operated an electromagnet in sync with the serial code. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CRLF (was Re: text file from Linux to windows.)
Andrew Reid wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 21:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) I don't recall it being THE standard, but I recall that numerous research Unix servers used to have DECwriter consoles as late as the mid-1980s. That's true, there were always Flexowriters, and all the IBM stuff :-) These had one small advantage over modern consoles, namely, they were pretty loud. Sysadmins could use this to simulate psychic powers -- when the server wrote an error message to its console, you could hear it, subtly but distinctly, from several rooms away. You could then announce to your less-attentive colleagues, there's a server problem, and they'd never figure out how you knew. Not that I ever did that. Purely hypothetical, you understand. But of course :-) I still recall learning to touch type on an ASR33 (connected to an old DG Nova as I recall, circa 1970 or so) - there was a 1/2 second delay between striking a key, and the character being written, and it was just about as hard to hit a key as on a manual typewriter. The first time I used a real electric typewriter (IBM Selectric), boy did that mess up my timing. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 7:26 PM, L. V. Gandhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? If you find that the file is already on a Windows system, and you'd like to convert it in the absence of Debian tools, you'll find that MS-DOS Edit reads Unix formatted text files correctly. You can do the conversion by opening the file in Edit and then saving it out again (you will need to make a change to the file in order to save it, say, adding a space and then deleting it). When you save out the file, Edit will append a \CR\LF to the end of each line as Windows text tools expect (while will cause the file to open correctly in Notepad). It's not a satisfying solution, but it will allow you to convert those files you come across on Windows systems that are having the issue you describe (which is common). -- Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/29/08 20:28, Miles Fidelman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 05/29/08 19:35, Paul Johnson wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 05:26:43 pm L.V.Gandhi wrote: I have made a text file in Linux using echo and cat commands. When I open the file in note pad, I find files are not having line break, but having a character in place of line break. Is there any way in echo and cat commands usage to put windows line break? Windows happens to end lines in a way that's gratuitously different from the rest of the world. Check out the tofrodos package. Since 90% of all computers are DOS/Windows, and got that method from CP/M, which did it that way back in 1976/77, your gratuitously different comment is absurdly wrong. Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). While I'm too young to have used an ASR33, I'm old enough to have used typewriters, and fart with dot matrix printers by sending only ^M after the line, and watching lines print over each other. So shame on me. (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) CR+LF is also required in most Internet protocols. This is one of the surprising areas, where the Microsoft products get things right, and the Unix world messes up. And the pre-OSX Macs used ^M as line separator. Regarding a mess-up, I disagree. When looking for EOL, it's far easier to scan for a single byte than for a ^M^J pair. Unix, having print spools and drivers, was (since there are so few text-only printers anymore) easily able to notice a \n in the data stream and replace it with a ^M^J. There are some good historical references at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline http://www.rfc-editor.org/EOLstory.txt http://www.w3.org/TR/newline - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis., Mr. Spock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIP3aJS9HxQb37XmcRAtVEAKChhfptne0v2txbHD40/FejDNKUSQCePDU3 7FDYrvai+r22TtDa8ZqtMII= =KAkQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: text file from Linux to windows.
* Miles Fidelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [080529 23:28]: ... Actually, it dates back further than that, to ASR33 teletype machines, where you needed to issue separate carriage return and line feed characters to end a line - to i) physically return the carriage to the beginning of the line, and ii) feed a line of paper (turn the platten). (Anybody else out there old enough to remember when ASR33s where THE standard i/o device? :-) Back about 1967, the ASR33 was coveted by those of us whose only means of input and output was the 80-column punch card. Output?, you say? Yes. For printed output, you put the deck of output cards into the card hopper of the line printer -- the chassis of which was a cube about four feet on a side. But inasmuch as the printer broke down on a daily basis, you quickly learned to read the holes in the cards. I speak of the days of Fortran-II running on an IBM 1620. Back then, it often was necessary to load the compiler (another deck of punched cards) before loading the application. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
