Re: transfer disk

[Felix Miata]

Pascal Hambourg composed on 2018-04-10 20:47 (UTC+0200):

> Felix Miata composed:

>> Putting a disk from an Intel system into a system with AMD, VIA or GeForce
>> chipset is almost certain to fail unless the initrd includes most drivers.

> This is the default (MODULES=most).

Likely it's one of the first things to go when someone wants to trim
installation size or speed up booting and/or updating.

>> This
>> leads me to believe that a minimal module set initrd created on one chipset 
>> type
>> and tried on any other chipset type is mostly likely doomed.

> Not if both chipsets use the same module. E.g. all SATA host controllers 
> in AHCI mode use the same ahci module regardless of the manufacturer.

I've seen a lot of BIOS since AHCI became commonplace where the string "AHCI" is
nowhere to be found in BIOS setup or motherboard or PC manual.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: transfer disk

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 10/04/2018 à 06:18, Felix Miata a écrit :


Putting a disk from an Intel system into a system with AMD, VIA or GeForce
chipset is almost certain to fail unless the initrd includes most drivers.

This is the default (MODULES=most).


This
leads me to believe that a minimal module set initrd created on one chipset type
and tried on any other chipset type is mostly likely doomed.


Not if both chipsets use the same module. E.g. all SATA host controllers 
in AHCI mode use the same ahci module regardless of the manufacturer.

Re: transfer disk

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 10/04/2018 à 05:48, Ben Caradoc-Davies a écrit :

On 10/04/18 14:01, mick crane wrote:
Can you pop a hard disk that boots with a Debian installation on it 
into another entirely different PC and will the kernel try to make 
sense of its new hardware ?


Mostly. I once had a disk that often moved between a desktop and laptop. 
If the architecture is compatible (e.g. not amd64 <-> arm64) then most 
likely it can be made to work. Common things that require fixing:


- Disk uses Legacy (BIOS) boot and partitioning but support is not 
enabled on the motherboard. Fix: turn on your motherboard Compatibility 
Support Module or similar.


The partitioning scheme has nothing to do with BIOS/UEFI boot.


- Disk uses UEFI but ancient motherboard does not support it. Unfixable.


Can be fixed, requires to install a BIOS boot loader on the disk.
Same if old disk and new PC have different UEFI architecture (32 and 64 
bits).


- Disk uses UEFI. Motherboard supports UEFI but has no boot entry and 
disk may need to be manually selected. Running update-grub should fix.


No it won't. update-grub just creates grub.cfg, it does not create an 
EFI boot entry. grub-install would, but most often you do not have to 
create an EFI boot entry, you can just install a copy of GRUB in the 
default ("removable device") path /boot/efi/efi/boot/boot{x64|ia32}.efi, 
manually or with grub-install --removable.

Re: transfer disk

[mick crane]

On 2018-04-10 04:48, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

On 10/04/18 14:01, mick crane wrote:

hello,
Can you pop a hard disk that boots with a Debian installation on it 
into another entirely different PC and will the kernel try to make 
sense of its new hardware ?

mick


Mostly. I once had a disk that often moved between a desktop and
laptop. If the architecture is compatible (e.g. not amd64 <-> arm64)
then most likely it can be made to work. Common things that require
fixing:

- Disk uses Legacy (BIOS) boot and partitioning but support is not
enabled on the motherboard. Fix: turn on your motherboard
Compatibility Support Module or similar.

- Disk uses UEFI but ancient motherboard does not support it. 
Unfixable.


- Disk uses UEFI. Motherboard supports UEFI but has no boot entry and
disk may need to be manually selected. Running update-grub should fix.

- Motherboard has secure boot enabled and is password locked. Fixable
if you can unlock it.

- Failed boot because the kernel or graphics drivers do not like your
new hardware. Supply fallback options at the command line, like noapic
etc.

- Anyone using ancient kernels with Skylake or later is going to have
a bad time. A recent kernel should improve compatibility.

- Hardcoded device paths in /etc/fstab might need to be changed. Most
installers use UUIDs for portability.

- You might find yourself with no network, especially no wifi. If your
new hardware is supported (e.g. by non-free), get the .debs you need
on a thumb drive and install them.

It is usually safe to have unused drivers so feel free to plan ahead
and install all drivers you need before you migrate.

Kind regards,


thanks guys for scenarios, looks hopeful.

mick


--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: transfer disk

[Felix Miata]

mick crane composed on 2018-04-10 03:01 (UTC+0100):

> Can you pop a hard disk that boots with a Debian installation on it into 
> another entirely different PC and will the kernel try to make sense of 
> its new hardware ?

IME, if the chipset and CPU are Intel, it doesn't matter how new or old, booting
will be possible even with a minimal module set in the initrd. Xorg may or may
not work without a newer kernel or driver version, but it won't prevent booting.
Ethernet may or may not work, but simple reconfiguration for the different MAC
address usually fixes that. I have nothing using Wireless, so can't speak to
that. I've done this Intel to Intel type of transplant many times.

Putting a disk from an Intel system into a system with AMD, VIA or GeForce
chipset is almost certain to fail unless the initrd includes most drivers. This
leads me to believe that a minimal module set initrd created on one chipset type
and tried on any other chipset type is mostly likely doomed. However, when the
disk can be prepared in advance to ensure most modules are included in the
initrd, then the transplant should boot regardless, and only network and Xorg
and/or Wayland might need manual reconfiguration.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: transfer disk

[David Wright]

On Tue 10 Apr 2018 at 03:01:56 (+0100), mick crane wrote:
> Can you pop a hard disk that boots with a Debian installation on it
> into another entirely different PC and will the kernel try to make
> sense of its new hardware ?

Yes, I used to build a system in one box and then install the drive in
another. This was in the days before initramfs; now you should make
sure you have   MODULES=most   in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
when (re)making it. I can't speak for BIOS/UEFI differences as my only
UEFI is a laptop.

Cheers,
David.

Re: transfer disk

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 10/04/18 14:01, mick crane wrote:

hello,
Can you pop a hard disk that boots with a Debian installation on it into 
another entirely different PC and will the kernel try to make sense of 
its new hardware ?

mick


Mostly. I once had a disk that often moved between a desktop and laptop. 
If the architecture is compatible (e.g. not amd64 <-> arm64) then most 
likely it can be made to work. Common things that require fixing:


- Disk uses Legacy (BIOS) boot and partitioning but support is not 
enabled on the motherboard. Fix: turn on your motherboard Compatibility 
Support Module or similar.


- Disk uses UEFI but ancient motherboard does not support it. Unfixable.

- Disk uses UEFI. Motherboard supports UEFI but has no boot entry and 
disk may need to be manually selected. Running update-grub should fix.


- Motherboard has secure boot enabled and is password locked. Fixable if 
you can unlock it.


- Failed boot because the kernel or graphics drivers do not like your 
new hardware. Supply fallback options at the command line, like noapic etc.


- Anyone using ancient kernels with Skylake or later is going to have a 
bad time. A recent kernel should improve compatibility.


- Hardcoded device paths in /etc/fstab might need to be changed. Most 
installers use UUIDs for portability.


- You might find yourself with no network, especially no wifi. If your 
new hardware is supported (e.g. by non-free), get the .debs you need on 
a thumb drive and install them.


It is usually safe to have unused drivers so feel free to plan ahead and 
install all drivers you need before you migrate.


Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: transfer disk

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 03:01:56AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> hello,
> Can you pop a hard disk that boots with a Debian installation on it into
> another entirely different PC and will the kernel try to make sense of its
> new hardware ?
> 
Sometimes "yes," sometimes "no". It depends on a variety of factors.
With additional details on the hardware involved (CPU, memory,
motherboard, expansion cards, etc.), someone might be able to give a
more definitive answer.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez