Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Alan Chandler]

On 13/01/16 12:31, Maciej Wołoszyn wrote:

Hi,


On my Stretch system updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd.
I removed ifupdown.
I got network problems (no loopback) so I wanted to reinstall ifupdown,
with no luck.

In my case, aptitude suggested removing ifupdown and replacing
it by ifupdown2 ('ifupdown rewritten in Python').
I did it, and lost networking after reboot (no loopback, no eth0).
However, 'ifup -a' started both lo and eth0.
(I have static IP defined for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces, and
don't use network manager)

I'm curious if other people also experience such problems?
If yes, I'd like to file the bug, but at the moment I don't know if the
problem is with ifupdown2 or systemd.



I tried to remove systemd and did not fully succeed, now I get no
login after a reboot.

Booting in safe mode does not give me a login prompt either.
I guess I have to reinstall my system, this time it will be the stable
branch.

Sorry to hear this, I guess reinstall will be the quickest option.
I'm not quite sure if booting from CD or USB and trying to fix your system by
reinstalling removed packages would be easier, or possible at all, never tried
this.

Maciej


I've had the very same thing this morning.  I am running testing and 
last night ran aptitude update.  It told me it needed to remove ifupdown 
as it was being replaced with systemd.  I let it.


Started the machine this morning (after what appeared to be a kernel 
crash on shutdown* - not sure if its related or not and might be a red 
herring) and had no networking.  Its a bit hard to figure out what to do 
when you can't connect to the internet to google.


Actually in the end I managed to find out with my mobile phone, that I 
could do


ip addr add 192.160.0.12 dev eth0 (where 192.168.0.12 is the address my 
dhcp erver always gives my machine) and the network was suddenly available.


Of course I went back to aptitude and tried to re-install ifupdown, but 
I can't without it removing my entire system, so I worry I might have to 
do this manual starting for the next few days.


I did find I could install net-tools, which I am sure I used to have, 
but must have removed at some point.  ifconfig command is in that and it 
helps (ip address show does something similar, which was what I was 
forced to use to find out what was wrong)


*I don't shutdown directly but log out.  I have mythtv backend also 
running on this machine, and I have to let it shutdown automatically 
when it knows there is no one logged in and it hasn't anything to record 
for a while as it is able to set a wakeup time.


--
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Adam Wilson]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:25:45 +
Joe  wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:59:19 +0300
> Adam Wilson  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:31:30 +0100
> > Maciej Wołoszyn  wrote:
> >   
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > > On my Stretch system updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd.
> > > > I removed ifupdown.
> > > > I got network problems (no loopback) so I wanted to reinstall
> > > > ifupdown, with no luck.  
> > > 
> > > In my case, aptitude suggested removing ifupdown and replacing
> > > it by ifupdown2 ('ifupdown rewritten in Python').
> > > I did it, and lost networking after reboot (no loopback, no eth0).
> > > However, 'ifup -a' started both lo and eth0.
> > > (I have static IP defined for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces,
> > > and don't use network manager)
> > 
> > This may or may not be somewhat off-topic (or is this the same
> > issue?). Anyway, over the past few days, I have noticed that upon
> > apt-get dist-upgrade, ifupdown is always held back. When I force an
> > ifupdown upgrade with apt-get install ifupdown, it wants to remove
> > hundreds of packages, including most of the MATE desktop
> > environment. I am running Stretch (which I somewhat regret now).
> > Are others experiencing this?
> > 
> > Needless to say, I decided not to upgrade ifupdown due to this.
> >   
> 
> This happened in unstable some time ago, and the jam cleared two days
> ago. Things generally appear in testing about ten days after unstable,
> if no complete disaster occurs, but Mr Biebl has told us the new
> systemd is due in testing around Saturday.
> 

Excellent. Unlike OP, no disaster occurred due to my caution.

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Joe]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:59:19 +0300
Adam Wilson  wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:31:30 +0100
> Maciej Wołoszyn  wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >   
> > > On my Stretch system updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd.
> > > I removed ifupdown.
> > > I got network problems (no loopback) so I wanted to reinstall
> > > ifupdown, with no luck.
> > 
> > In my case, aptitude suggested removing ifupdown and replacing
> > it by ifupdown2 ('ifupdown rewritten in Python').
> > I did it, and lost networking after reboot (no loopback, no eth0).
> > However, 'ifup -a' started both lo and eth0.
> > (I have static IP defined for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces, and 
> > don't use network manager)  
> 
> This may or may not be somewhat off-topic (or is this the same
> issue?). Anyway, over the past few days, I have noticed that upon
> apt-get dist-upgrade, ifupdown is always held back. When I force an
> ifupdown upgrade with apt-get install ifupdown, it wants to remove
> hundreds of packages, including most of the MATE desktop environment.
> I am running Stretch (which I somewhat regret now). Are others
> experiencing this?
> 
> Needless to say, I decided not to upgrade ifupdown due to this.
> 

This happened in unstable some time ago, and the jam cleared two days
ago. Things generally appear in testing about ten days after unstable,
if no complete disaster occurs, but Mr Biebl has told us the new
systemd is due in testing around Saturday.

-- 
Joe

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Maciej Wołoszyn]

Thanks for the explanation. Now I see that my question came simply from the 
misinterpreted aptitude's suggestion to remove ifupdown and install ifupdown2. 
I made a mistake to assume that ifupdown2 is intended to replace ifupdown, and 
to think that successful install of ifupdown2 (which is not in conflict with 
current systemd) should make it work.

I'll wait for the new systemd, than I'll check if ifupdown2 also works with 
it, and go back to ifupdown.

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Adam Wilson]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 13:31:30 +0100
Maciej Wołoszyn  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> > On my Stretch system updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd.
> > I removed ifupdown.
> > I got network problems (no loopback) so I wanted to reinstall
> > ifupdown, with no luck.  
> 
> In my case, aptitude suggested removing ifupdown and replacing
> it by ifupdown2 ('ifupdown rewritten in Python').
> I did it, and lost networking after reboot (no loopback, no eth0).
> However, 'ifup -a' started both lo and eth0.
> (I have static IP defined for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces, and 
> don't use network manager)

This may or may not be somewhat off-topic (or is this the same issue?).
Anyway, over the past few days, I have noticed that upon apt-get
dist-upgrade, ifupdown is always held back. When I force an ifupdown
upgrade with apt-get install ifupdown, it wants to remove hundreds of
packages, including most of the MATE desktop environment. I am running
Stretch (which I somewhat regret now). Are others experiencing this?

Needless to say, I decided not to upgrade ifupdown due to this.

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Michael Biebl]

Am 13.01.2016 um 16:00 schrieb Hans:
> Hi list,
>>>
>>> I'm curious if other people also experience such problems?
>>> If yes, I'd like to file the bug, but at the moment I don't know if the
>>> problem is with ifupdown2 or systemd.
>>
> I tried ifupdown2, but at the moment I get only an ip address with dhcp. The 
> entries in /etc/network/interfaces are completely igored. Installing 
> ifupdown2 
> does not make any difference.
> 
>> There is no bug.
>> Simply wait until matching versions of systemd and ifupdown arrive in
>> testing. Up until then, hold back with the update, i.e. be cautious if
>> apt(itude) wants to remove the package.
> 
> 
> I think, it is very unlucky, to release systremd with these bad dependencies. 
> I hope, the dependencies will be fixed as soon as possible or a big warning 
> should appear, as network is really an essential function.

Again, it's neither a bug nor a bad dependency.
It's simply that ifupdown migrated to testing before systemd, which
makes the current versions in testing not installable. This will be
fixed in 3 days when systemd migrates to testing as well.

If you are not willing to deal with such issues, and hold back with an
update, then testing is the wrong distribution for you.



-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2016-01-13 16:00:55 +0100, Hans wrote:
> I think, it is very unlucky, to release systremd with these bad dependencies. 
> I hope, the dependencies will be fixed as soon as possible or a big warning 
> should appear, as network is really an essential function.

The problem is not the dependencies, but aptitude, which prefers
removing packages to blocking some upgrades. Because of that,
I now use:

// Tweak aptitude to not suggest removals as first option.
// Suggested on:
//   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/07/msg00398.html
Aptitude::ProblemResolver::SolutionCost "removals";

in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10aptitude but this has some drawbacks,
in particular:

  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762932

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Martin Read]

On 13/01/16 15:00, Hans wrote:

I think, it is very unlucky, to release systremd with these bad dependencies.
I hope, the dependencies will be fixed as soon as possible or a big warning
should appear, as network is really an essential function.


Your warning of these problems is simple: it is the fact that you are 
running testing instead of stable.

Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Hans]

Hi list,
> > 
> > I'm curious if other people also experience such problems?
> > If yes, I'd like to file the bug, but at the moment I don't know if the
> > problem is with ifupdown2 or systemd.
> 
I tried ifupdown2, but at the moment I get only an ip address with dhcp. The 
entries in /etc/network/interfaces are completely igored. Installing ifupdown2 
does not make any difference.

> There is no bug.
> Simply wait until matching versions of systemd and ifupdown arrive in
> testing. Up until then, hold back with the update, i.e. be cautious if
> apt(itude) wants to remove the package.


I think, it is very unlucky, to release systremd with these bad dependencies. 
I hope, the dependencies will be fixed as soon as possible or a big warning 
should appear, as network is really an essential function.

Best regards

Hans



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Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Michael Biebl]

Am 13.01.2016 um 13:31 schrieb Maciej Wołoszyn:
> Hi,
> 
>> On my Stretch system updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd.
>> I removed ifupdown.
>> I got network problems (no loopback) so I wanted to reinstall ifupdown,
>> with no luck.
> 
> In my case, aptitude suggested removing ifupdown and replacing
> it by ifupdown2 ('ifupdown rewritten in Python').
> I did it, and lost networking after reboot (no loopback, no eth0).
> However, 'ifup -a' started both lo and eth0.
> (I have static IP defined for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces, and 
> don't use network manager)
> 
> I'm curious if other people also experience such problems?
> If yes, I'd like to file the bug, but at the moment I don't know if the 
> problem is with ifupdown2 or systemd.
>

There is no bug.
Simply wait until matching versions of systemd and ifupdown arrive in
testing. Up until then, hold back with the update, i.e. be cautious if
apt(itude) wants to remove the package.


-- 
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?



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Re: updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd

[Maciej Wołoszyn]

Hi,

> On my Stretch system updating ifupdown conflicts with systemd.
> I removed ifupdown.
> I got network problems (no loopback) so I wanted to reinstall ifupdown,
> with no luck.

In my case, aptitude suggested removing ifupdown and replacing
it by ifupdown2 ('ifupdown rewritten in Python').
I did it, and lost networking after reboot (no loopback, no eth0).
However, 'ifup -a' started both lo and eth0.
(I have static IP defined for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces, and 
don't use network manager)

I'm curious if other people also experience such problems?
If yes, I'd like to file the bug, but at the moment I don't know if the 
problem is with ifupdown2 or systemd.


> I tried to remove systemd and did not fully succeed, now I get no
> login after a reboot.
>
> Booting in safe mode does not give me a login prompt either.
> I guess I have to reinstall my system, this time it will be the stable
> branch.

Sorry to hear this, I guess reinstall will be the quickest option.
I'm not quite sure if booting from CD or USB and trying to fix your system by 
reinstalling removed packages would be easier, or possible at all, never tried 
this.

Maciej