Re: Ready to join the club..
On 23. October 2005 at 7:53PM -0700, Andy Streich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > AFAIK, there is not a single vendor of PC's that provides a > robust system out of the box that includes a ready-to-go > backup/recovery procedure. It's always something left to the > user. It's like selling a car without a spare and a jack. Well, if the data's critical enough, it's more like selling a car without airbags and seatbelts. A person with a flat tire can just step out of a car and take a taxi. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backup scheme install [was Ready to join the club..]
On Monday 24 October 2005 12:10, Andy Streich wrote: >On Sunday 23 October 2005 10:20 pm, Steve Lamb wrote: >> > AFAIK, there is not a single vendor of PC's that provides a robust >> > system out of the box that includes a ready-to-go backup/recovery >> > procedure. It's always something left to the user. It's like >> > selling a car without a spare and a jack. >> >> It's a hardware issue. Tell me what piece of hardware you're >> going to presume the user has to back up to. > >But hardware detection is one of the many fine features of the Debian >installer, and I presume burning a CD is the best low-end hardware to > target. > As someone else already pointed out, the hardware used for backups has a far greater variety than there are in generic chipsets for computers. However, once the hardware is known, it only takes a little while to do a basic 'amanda' install, at which point because it has no idea of the hardware available, its pretty useless. But some time spent reading amanda's manpages, and a few messages asking for additional clarification to the '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' list will usually square the user away. Amanda is the acronym for Advanced Maryland Automatic Network Disk Archiver. Personally, I've given up on tapes because both the drives and the media are way more expensive per gigabyte than big hard drives, and amanda can deal with either with equal alacrity when properly configured. When my last DDS2 changer (4gb per tape) ate itself in about a month I bought a 200GB hard drive and use it as a dedicated to amanda batch of virtual tapes. Its faster than tape, easier by far to do a bare metal recovery from, and has given me maybe 0.01% of the errors and general piddling away of half a day here and there that always seems to go with using tapes. >The user I have in mind has a computer for email, websurfing, document >writing, maybe image manipulation and spreadsheets. The current Debian >desktop install serves them well when it comes to providing the means to >create the data they are interested in, but leaves them on their own on > an issue we all know is critical to a well-configured system: backup > and recovery. > > I understand I'm advocating for a feature that isn't going to appear >tomorrow, but it's important to consider it as part of the roadmap. And > it could be yet another way Debian distinguishes itself from the crowd. > The only consideration this user may want to think about when doing automatic, crontab driven, backups is that the machine will need to be left on while amanda is doing its thing, which typically takes about 2 hours to go thru this machine and one client, with a total of about 110GB of data between them. To make the 24/7 operation worthwhile, I'm also doing [EMAIL PROTECTED] and other things to keep it occupied while I'm snoozing. >On Sunday 23 October 2005 09:11 pm, Paul Johnson wrote: >> > Then you are not familiar with the legions of PC users who know >> > nothing of making backups, care a lot about their data, and only >> > realize they should have learned about regular backups when the data >> > turns to toast. >> >> Obviously they didn't care enough about their data to think about how >> to protect it. They got what they had coming. >> >> > It's not that people are lazy (okay, some are) but just clueless. >> >> Cluelessness is a symptom of laziness. > >Cluelessness is a symptom of being inexperienced. Its also an indicator that their lack of experience in howto do these things came from no one reminding them of the dangers, and the best way to fix that is to have them get their feet wet and do it. Then the 'danger' is far less intimidating. We should do the best job of teaching that we can rather than looking down ouir collective noses at the newbees. >Andy -- Cheers, Gene "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) 99.35% setiathome rank, not too shabby for a WV hillbilly Yahoo.com and AOL/TW attorneys please note, additions to the above message by Gene Heskett are: Copyright 2005 by Maurice Eugene Heskett, all rights reserved. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
backup scheme install [was Ready to join the club..]
On Sunday 23 October 2005 10:20 pm, Steve Lamb wrote: > > AFAIK, there is not a single vendor of PC's that provides a robust system > > out of the box that includes a ready-to-go backup/recovery procedure. > > It's always something left to the user. It's like selling a car > > without a spare and a jack. > > It's a hardware issue. Tell me what piece of hardware you're going to > presume the user has to back up to. But hardware detection is one of the many fine features of the Debian installer, and I presume burning a CD is the best low-end hardware to target. The user I have in mind has a computer for email, websurfing, document writing, maybe image manipulation and spreadsheets. The current Debian desktop install serves them well when it comes to providing the means to create the data they are interested in, but leaves them on their own on an issue we all know is critical to a well-configured system: backup and recovery. I understand I'm advocating for a feature that isn't going to appear tomorrow, but it's important to consider it as part of the roadmap. And it could be yet another way Debian distinguishes itself from the crowd. On Sunday 23 October 2005 09:11 pm, Paul Johnson wrote: > > Then you are not familiar with the legions of PC users who know nothing > > of making backups, care a lot about their data, and only realize they > > should have learned about regular backups when the data turns to toast. > > Obviously they didn't care enough about their data to think about how to > protect it. They got what they had coming. > > > It's not that people are lazy (okay, some are) but just clueless. > > Cluelessness is a symptom of laziness. Cluelessness is a symptom of being inexperienced. Andy
Re: Ready to join the club..
Paul Johnson wrote: >On Saturday 22 October 2005 03:57 pm, Ian Cavnar wrote: > > >>I'm hopingthat you mean 60 and 80 GB, as 140MB is nowhere near enough to >>install Debian and have anything useful for a newb on there. >> >> > >Not true. Just depends on the newbie's situation. Case in point, I switched >because I couldn't stand the thought of replacing a defective Windows CD just >to reinstall an OS on my 386 back in 1997. 18MB RAM, 120MB disk. It's one >hell of a squeeze, and you'll probably have to trip /usr/share/doc to make it >fit, but it works. > > > I think the operative phrase was "for a newb"; I wouldn't expect a newb to be able to do this squeezing of which you speak. But I understand your sentiment, and agree. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Andy Streich wrote: > AFAIK, there is not a single vendor of PC's that provides a robust system out > of the box that includes a ready-to-go backup/recovery procedure. It's > always something left to the user. It's like selling a car without a spare > and a jack. It's a hardware issue. Tell me what piece of hardware you're going to presume the user has to back up to. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Sunday 23 October 2005 07:53 pm, Andy Streich wrote: > On Sunday 23 October 2005 06:27 pm, Paul Johnson wrote: > > This is a straw-man argument. Anybody who actually cares about their > > data keeps a good set of backups anyway. > > Then you are not familiar with the legions of PC users who know nothing of > making backups, care a lot about their data, and only realize they should > have learned about regular backups when the data turns to toast. Obviously they didn't care enough about their data to think about how to protect it. They got what they had coming. > It's not that people are lazy (okay, some are) but just clueless. Cluelessness is a symptom of laziness. -- Paul Johnson Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Got jabber? http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgppGjgq5skTZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Sunday 23 October 2005 06:27 pm, Paul Johnson wrote: > This is a straw-man argument. Anybody who actually cares about their data > keeps a good set of backups anyway. Then you are not familiar with the legions of PC users who know nothing of making backups, care a lot about their data, and only realize they should have learned about regular backups when the data turns to toast. I think this is the biggest failure of every OS install (or more generally a lack of evolution in design). While providing a desktop system with all the common office programs, there is no prompting for setting up a backup procedure. It's not that people are lazy (okay, some are) but just clueless. AFAIK, there is not a single vendor of PC's that provides a robust system out of the box that includes a ready-to-go backup/recovery procedure. It's always something left to the user. It's like selling a car without a spare and a jack.
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Friday 21 October 2005 06:45 pm, Greg wrote: > It worked, sort of. > > Thanks to all for the advice, including the kind I didn't listen to. > The dual boot stet up fine. However, during the Debian install, I > accidently skipped over the part to install the desktop environment, > print server, etc. When all was complete I was left with a prompt. > Not what I was hoping for. Is there a way to install the desktop > environment with doing a whole re-install. apt-get install If you don't know what you're looking for, try apt-get install kde -- Paul Johnson Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Got jabber? http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgp0Q0aMw4MRx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Friday 21 October 2005 04:39 pm, Marty wrote: > Antony Gelberg wrote: > > He is new to Debian but sounds like he has a decent understanding of > > PCs. If he is stupid enough to delete his Windows partition during the > > install, it will certainly be the kind of mistake he learns from. :) > > > > d-i is very friendly and I think he should proceed with both drives > > connected. > > Easy enough to say when somebody else's data is at risk, and the > friendliness of all the strangers in the world may not be enough to recover > his lost data. This is a straw-man argument. Anybody who actually cares about their data keeps a good set of backups anyway. -- Paul Johnson Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Got jabber? http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpAdP7Pzi2P9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Saturday 22 October 2005 03:57 pm, Ian Cavnar wrote: > I'm hopingthat you mean 60 and 80 GB, as 140MB is nowhere near enough to > install Debian and have anything useful for a newb on there. Not true. Just depends on the newbie's situation. Case in point, I switched because I couldn't stand the thought of replacing a defective Windows CD just to reinstall an OS on my 386 back in 1997. 18MB RAM, 120MB disk. It's one hell of a squeeze, and you'll probably have to trip /usr/share/doc to make it fit, but it works. -- Paul Johnson Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Got jabber? http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpFNZjFwftpo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Friday 21 October 2005 12:02 pm, Greg wrote: > I've sorted for this topic what wasn't able to find information on my > setup. Didn't try too hard, eh? Windows ME and Windows 95 are identical from a booting perspective. http://ursine.ca/cgi-bin/dwww?type=file&location=/usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-html/HOWTO-INDEX/../Linux%2BWin95/index.html -- Paul Johnson Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Got jabber? http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber pgpeLydgXRoaO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: I'm a noob to Debian but I'm ready to install Debian to my current machine. (PIII, 512MB Ram, 2 HDs; 60 MB - main and 80 MB secondary). The first HD contains WinME (don't laugh) and the second will contain Debian in one partition and Windows files (mp3s, JPEGs) in the other. I've already partitioned the second HD and burned the installation image files onto CDs. My question is this, I want to use a boot loader that will load either WinME or Debian. Grub seems like the default boot loader per the installation docs I've read. During installation, will Grub be smart enough to see WinMe on the other drive and will itput the boot loader file on the main drive, the one that holds WinME? I've sorted for this topic what wasn't able to find information on my setup. It should work fine. every time i installed debian it found my winodws (xp) install and at least some of the other linux installations without problems. I have never expierienced data loss when installing debian. my windoze uses fat32, as WinMe does. in case it doesn't auto-detect, you can always add winme to grub. or you can use the windows boot loader to boot debian (at least with win2000 and winXP ) ( tricky ) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Kent West wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Under what conditions can I copy data under X and paste with gpm and viceversa, with just the mouse strokes? I don't believe you can. I just tried selecting text in X, switching to VT1, and pasting with my middle button. Nothing happened. So I selected text in VT1, then hopped back to X, and tried to paste with a middle click; what pasted was the first text I selected in X. That's what I get, so now I do it through a file, but that's a pain. This must have been thought of before. H -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Kent West wrote: > 3) This list generally discourages top-posting (putting your reply about > the text of the message to which you're replying). Interspersed > contextual replies are preferred... Understood. Etiquette is import. Again, thanks for the help. Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: >THank you for you insight on this. FYI, I was able to make this work. >However, when I go into aptitude and look at packages to be removed, it >shows gpm. I also recall an error message that stated something to the >affect that gpm was obsolete and would be reomoved from the install. >Predictably, I was playing around with aptitude and removed gpm. Alas, >my mouse stopped working and I had to go through these steps again. > >Is there another way to make this mouse work? > >FYI, I'm using a MS 2 button + scroll wheel. Serial, 6pin. > > > 1) I'm unaware of gpm being obsolete; perhaps the version you had installed was obsolete. Just "aptitude install gpm" to reinstall it. This should get your mouse working again. 2) The gpm package is unnecessary for your mouse to work in X; it's only the mouse driver for the console. So if you want a mouse in both the console and in X, you have to install gpm and configure it to work with the X driver. 3) This list generally discourages top-posting (putting your reply about the text of the message to which you're replying). Interspersed contextual replies are preferred, like so: > My point A. Your response to A. > My point B. Your response to B. 4) Also, as a general rule, you probably want to avoid replying privately, in favor of keeping messages on the list. This serves three purposes: A: Others who might be following the thread hoping for answers get the benefit of any new material. B: The material gets archived, benefiting future seekers of the answers. C: The person to whom you privately reply may not know the answer; by replying on the list you get the benefit of input from others who might know the answer. For example, I'm unaware of gpm being obsolete; perhaps others have input on this issue. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
I installed it and it works, however, I have a few issues. I can't get my linksys wireless card to work (WMP54G), but I can get on the net when I run cat5 from my NIC directly to rounter. (I have both a wireless card and NIC) Also, I installed gphoto2 but the system won't recongnize my camera. When I'm at the command line and I turn on my camera, it recognizes that it's a Sony (DSC-V1), but not which model. I can't download photo's or even list the files on the camera. Same situation in desktop environment or command line. Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
No prob. Have you installed it yet? Greg wrote: Yes, GB not MB. My bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Yes, GB not MB. My bad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: > Under what conditions can I copy data under X and paste with gpm and > viceversa, with just the mouse strokes? > I don't believe you can. I just tried selecting text in X, switching to VT1, and pasting with my middle button. Nothing happened. So I selected text in VT1, then hopped back to X, and tried to paste with a middle click; what pasted was the first text I selected in X. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
I'm hopingthat you mean 60 and 80 GB, as 140MB is nowhere near enough to install Debian and have anything useful for a newb on there. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: Okay. I played with some of the mouse settings and was able to get into X but mouse wouldn't work. I googled some and found this from Kent West; If you're in X, press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to the second virtual terminal; if you're not in X, you're fine where you are. "apt-get install gpm" Tell gpm that your mouse is on "/dev/psaux", of type "imps2", and to repeat "raw". After gpm is installed, move the mouse; you should see a white block cursor moving on the screen. If not, run "gpmconfig" and tinker with the settings some more. If you have a USB mouse, the location will be "/dev/input/mice", but you also have to have USB support working, which is another can of worms. Then reconfigure X to use the raw data repeated from gpm. Do this with the command "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86", and specify "/dev/gpmdata" as the mouse location. You'll need to restart X after this. If you started X with "startx", just switch back to X with (Ctrl-)Alt-F7, and press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill X. If X was started with a tool like kdm or gdm (you had a graphical logon screen), restart that tool with a command like "/etc/init.d/gpm restart" (substitute xdm, wdm, kdm for gdm until it works). Now your mouse should be working. Under what conditions can I copy data under X and paste with gpm and viceversa, with just the mouse strokes? H -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: >"apt-get install gpm" >Tell gpm that your mouse is on "/dev/psaux", of type "imps2", and to >repeat "raw". > I have since learned that the "officially" proper repeat type is "ms3". >If you have a USB mouse, the >location will be "/dev/input/mice", but you also have to have USB >support working, which is another can of worms. > >Then reconfigure X to use the raw data repeated from gpm. Do this with >the command "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86", and specify >"/dev/gpmdata" as the mouse location. > If you're using a USB mouse, I believe both gpm and X can be configured to read from /dev/input/mice/. The /dev/input/mice device is smart enough to be able to feed mice events to multiple readers, whereas with the older /dev/psaux device, when gpm read a mouse event, that event would not be readable by X, and vice-versa, so that the mouse was unpredictable; letting gpm read all the events, and then repeating them to X solved this problem. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Okay. I played with some of the mouse settings and was able to get into X but mouse wouldn't work. I googled some and found this from Kent West; If you're in X, press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to the second virtual terminal; if you're not in X, you're fine where you are. "apt-get install gpm" Tell gpm that your mouse is on "/dev/psaux", of type "imps2", and to repeat "raw". After gpm is installed, move the mouse; you should see a white block cursor moving on the screen. If not, run "gpmconfig" and tinker with the settings some more. If you have a USB mouse, the location will be "/dev/input/mice", but you also have to have USB support working, which is another can of worms. Then reconfigure X to use the raw data repeated from gpm. Do this with the command "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86", and specify "/dev/gpmdata" as the mouse location. You'll need to restart X after this. If you started X with "startx", just switch back to X with (Ctrl-)Alt-F7, and press Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill X. If X was started with a tool like kdm or gdm (you had a graphical logon screen), restart that tool with a command like "/etc/init.d/gpm restart" (substitute xdm, wdm, kdm for gdm until it works). Now your mouse should be working. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
I got the mouse and desktop to work. I will post tomorrow regarding how I did it. I have a few more things to fix (wireless networking, etc), but I like what I see so far. It seems to be a very elegent operating system. Good night. Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Friday 21 October 2005 08:58 pm, Greg wrote: > Actually, I did a Google. I ran tasksel as root and loaded the files > for the dektop. I answered several questions during the process. > However, I still can't load the desktop. I get the following error > message > > (EE) ef860penSerial I cannot open device /dev/input/mouse > (EE) ConfiguredMouse: Cannot open input device > (EE) PreInit failed for input device "Configured Mouse" > > Although I'm a noob, I can surmise that I've got a problem with my > mouse. How to fix? The mouse is a serial mouse with 6 male pins in > the connector and 6 female receptors in the back of the PC. The mouse > is a MS 2 button + scroll wheel. > > Any help you can provide would be great. > > Thank you, > > Greg Greg, Run this command as root: apt-get install mdetect This will install a program that will help detect and setup your mouse in X windows. Then run this command as root: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 This will then try reconfiguring the desktop and should do the mouse detection step again. John Schmidt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Actually, I did a Google. I ran tasksel as root and loaded the files for the dektop. I answered several questions during the process. However, I still can't load the desktop. I get the following error message (EE) ef860penSerial I cannot open device /dev/input/mouse (EE) ConfiguredMouse: Cannot open input device (EE) PreInit failed for input device "Configured Mouse" Although I'm a noob, I can surmise that I've got a problem with my mouse. How to fix? The mouse is a serial mouse with 6 male pins in the connector and 6 female receptors in the back of the PC. The mouse is a MS 2 button + scroll wheel. Any help you can provide would be great. Thank you, Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Fri October 21 2005 06:45 pm, Greg wrote: > It worked, sort of. > > Thanks to all for the advice, including the kind I didn't listen to. > The dual boot stet up fine. However, during the Debian install, I > accidently skipped over the part to install the desktop environment, > print server, etc. When all was complete I was left with a prompt. > Not what I was hoping for. Is there a way to install the desktop > environment with doing a whole re-install. That is the way I always install debian, so depending on your point of view your just where you should be. :) Now you need to install whatever software you choose. There are a few ways to do that, what's below is the way I do it, not the gospel in any way. You can use it or not. I use dselect as my prefered front end to the debian archive. There is also aptitude. You can pick and choose whatever you'd like to install. I'd start with alsa-base, x-window-system as well as gnome and/or kde. If you choose to use deselect you'll need to use the update option from it's main menu before you get underway so it'll read in your list of what's available. Have fun! BTW, that prompt is the most powerful in the computing world, don't forget about it.. ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 06:45:19PM -0700, Greg wrote: > Thanks to all for the advice, including the kind I didn't listen to. > The dual boot stet up fine. However, during the Debian install, I > accidently skipped over the part to install the desktop environment, > print server, etc. When all was complete I was left with a prompt. > Not what I was hoping for. Is there a way to install the desktop > environment with doing a whole re-install. As root run "base-config". -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you attempt to fix something that isn't broken, it will be. -Bruce Tognazzini -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
It worked, sort of. Thanks to all for the advice, including the kind I didn't listen to. The dual boot stet up fine. However, during the Debian install, I accidently skipped over the part to install the desktop environment, print server, etc. When all was complete I was left with a prompt. Not what I was hoping for. Is there a way to install the desktop environment with doing a whole re-install. Again, thaks to all. Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Antony Gelberg wrote: He is new to Debian but sounds like he has a decent understanding of PCs. If he is stupid enough to delete his Windows partition during the install, it will certainly be the kind of mistake he learns from. :) d-i is very friendly and I think he should proceed with both drives connected. Easy enough to say when somebody else's data is at risk, and the friendliness of all the strangers in the world may not be enough to recover his lost data. Moreover the reference to stupidity doesn't seem to cover the possibility of bugs or poor design in the installation routine, which could cause or contribute to catastrophic data loss. Furthermore since you are using separate hard drives, you can probably select the boot drive using the BIOS boot device selection menu (e.g. F8->Boot Menu) available on newer motherboards. There is probably no need in your case to use a boot loader for OS selection. Talk about making an inelegant solution (dual-booting) even more so. Elegance is in the eye of the beholder. To me, such redundancy does not seem elegant in the least, just a source of additional complexity and modes of failure. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: > I'm a noob to Debian but I'm ready to install Debian to my current > machine. (PIII, 512MB Ram, 2 HDs; 60 MB - main and 80 MB secondary). > The first HD contains WinME (don't laugh) and the second will contain > Debian in one partition and Windows files (mp3s, JPEGs) in the other. > I've already partitioned the second HD and burned the installation > image files onto CDs. My question is this, I want to use a boot loader > that will load either WinME or Debian. Grub seems like the default > boot loader per the installation docs I've read. During installation, > will Grub be smart enough to see WinMe on the other drive and will > itput the boot loader file on the main drive, the one that holds WinME? > > I've sorted for this topic what wasn't able to find information on my > setup. > Don't be afraid to try it. Do it. Of course first do a backup of your info in winME. Then, put your CD, reboot from CD and follow the show. Maybe you should let the installer do the partition for you and let it take all the free espace on /dev/hdb (that is the name of your second hard disk in linux) In case that the installer couldn't configure grub correctly, you should put something like this in your /boot/grub/menu.lst, after the new debian system is running: title Windows 2000 root(hd0,0) makeactive chainloader +1 with this I can dual boot my debian sarge and my almost never used win2k. > Thank you in advance, > > Greg > > Miguel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: I'm a noob to Debian but I'm ready to install Debian to my current machine. (PIII, 512MB Ram, 2 HDs; 60 MB - main and 80 MB secondary). The first HD contains WinME (don't laugh) and the second will contain Debian in one partition and Windows files (mp3s, JPEGs) in the other. I've already partitioned the second HD and burned the installation image files onto CDs. My question is this, I want to use a boot loader that will load either WinME or Debian. Grub seems like the default boot loader per the installation docs I've read. During installation, will Grub be smart enough to see WinMe on the other drive and will itput the boot loader file on the main drive, the one that holds WinME? I don't know the answer to question question, but it raises a red flag, byt suggesting that you are planning to install Debian on a system with WinME present. That's an unnecessary and risky thing to do, especially for a "noob." I strongly recommend against it, especially if your system is not 100% backed up. Instead you could just remove or disconnect the WinME drive, to avoid the risk of total and irretrievable data loss on the WinME drive. This is not opinion or excess alarm on my part-- the Debian installation software will give you the same warning. Furthermore since you are using separate hard drives, you can probably select the boot drive using the BIOS boot device selection menu (e.g. F8->Boot Menu) available on newer motherboards. There is probably no need in your case to use a boot loader for OS selection. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
Greg wrote: My question is this, I want to use a boot loader that will load either WinME or Debian. Grub seems like the default boot loader per the installation docs I've read. During installation, will Grub be smart enough to see WinMe on the other drive and will itput the boot loader file on the main drive, the one that holds WinME? In my experience, no. However, after installation you can edit /boot/grub/menu.lst; in that file is an example stanza for loading Windows. It's probably suitable for you machine just as is; just remove the #'s in front of the four lines or so to enable this stanza, and you should be good to go. -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ready to join the club..
yep you should be fine... just remember if you ever nuke your debian install your bootloader will no longer work (or maybe its just that it wont find its menu.lst file, can't remember as its been awhile since I goofed up and did that) since thats where it stores the grub files (even though grub will be initiated on the MBR of the primary drive) -Matt On Fri, 2005-10-21 at 12:02 -0700, Greg wrote: > I'm a noob to Debian but I'm ready to install Debian to my current > machine. (PIII, 512MB Ram, 2 HDs; 60 MB - main and 80 MB secondary). > The first HD contains WinME (don't laugh) and the second will contain > Debian in one partition and Windows files (mp3s, JPEGs) in the other. > I've already partitioned the second HD and burned the installation > image files onto CDs. My question is this, I want to use a boot loader > that will load either WinME or Debian. Grub seems like the default > boot loader per the installation docs I've read. During installation, > will Grub be smart enough to see WinMe on the other drive and will > itput the boot loader file on the main drive, the one that holds WinME? > > I've sorted for this topic what wasn't able to find information on my > setup. > > Thank you in advance, > > Greg > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ready to join the club..
I'm a noob to Debian but I'm ready to install Debian to my current machine. (PIII, 512MB Ram, 2 HDs; 60 MB - main and 80 MB secondary). The first HD contains WinME (don't laugh) and the second will contain Debian in one partition and Windows files (mp3s, JPEGs) in the other. I've already partitioned the second HD and burned the installation image files onto CDs. My question is this, I want to use a boot loader that will load either WinME or Debian. Grub seems like the default boot loader per the installation docs I've read. During installation, will Grub be smart enough to see WinMe on the other drive and will itput the boot loader file on the main drive, the one that holds WinME? I've sorted for this topic what wasn't able to find information on my setup. Thank you in advance, Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
