Re: Request free live CD
On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:09:29 +0100
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 10 feb 22, 20:05:32, Celejar wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> > > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> > > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request
> > > > free
> > > > cd for free from you.
> > >
> > > See here:
> > >
> > > https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
> > >
> > > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
> > > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
> >
> > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> > own time?
>
> Assuming I might have a decent internet connection, a disc burner and
> spare blank media I might consider helping out.
>
> However, this particular request feels too much like someone just
> wanting to take advantage of some freebie ("hey, I heard you give out
> stuff for free so I want some"), as opposed to someone in real need
> (hey, internet here is slow and/or metered, media burners are nowhere to
> be found, etc., could someone help out?").
Totally understandable. Just to be clear, I did not mean to criticize
or accuse anyone of irrationality or hypocrisy - I was just curious
about the mindsets of open source devotees.
Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
On 2022-02-14, Celejar wrote: >> >> Because your premise is false, and there is no equivalence between time >> and money. > > I have no premise of an "equivalence" between time and money; the > question of why people distinguish between them is nevertheless a People distinguish between them exactly because there's no equivalence between them. If you can't understand how helping some aged neighbor carry groceries into the house might be undertaken with a certain blithe alacrity by the same person who'd think twice about forking over dough to the old dame when she hits him up unexpectedly for a ten spot, then I don't think anyone here will be able to enlighten you. > Celejar > > --
Re: Request free live CD
Celejar wrote on 11/02/2022 at 02:05:32+0100: > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100 > wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote: >> > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please >> > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free >> > cd for free from you. >> >> See here: >> >> https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd >> >> Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't >> expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained > > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his > own time? I'm already buying money with my time, so giving it is giving what I need to pay my rent and my fill my fridge and it's also giving my time. Deciding about how to allocate my free time is quite easier and just costs me… time. -- PEB signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Request free live CD
Celejar wrote: > > I have no premise of an "equivalence" between time and money; the > question of why people distinguish between them is nevertheless a > legitimate one, since they are both scarce resources which people have > to prioritize and allocate between their own personal needs and those of > others. Also note that you are asking a community of people who donate their time whether they prefer to donate their time or money... you might get a different result if you asked some other group. -dsr-
Re: Request free live CD
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 12:36:04 - (UTC) Curt wrote: > On 2022-02-11, Celejar wrote: > >> > >> https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd > >> > >> Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't > >> expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained > > > > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and > > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because > > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend > > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his > > own time? > > Because your premise is false, and there is no equivalence between time > and money. I have no premise of an "equivalence" between time and money; the question of why people distinguish between them is nevertheless a legitimate one, since they are both scarce resources which people have to prioritize and allocate between their own personal needs and those of others. Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 19:10:58 -0500 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, February 11, 2022 02:44:26 PM Celejar wrote: > > Fair enough, although the question then is why we enjoy giving of our > > time but not our money. I assume that a primary motive of many (I can't > > speak for anyone in particular, of course) who give of their time is a > > desire to help others, and the act of helping others is what provides > > enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy > > helping others with financial contributions. > > For me, it is easier (emotionally) to give time rather than money. Although > I'm not too bad off re money, I don't get my supply renewed everyday (well, > for > the most part, I do now get SS (in the US). True. On the other hand, one's time on this earth is limited, while money is, at least for some, less of a rigid constraint. Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
On 2022-02-11, Celejar wrote: >> >> https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd >> >> Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't >> expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained > > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his > own time? Because your premise is false, and there is no equivalence between time and money.
Re: Request free live CD
On Jo, 10 feb 22, 20:05:32, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote:
> > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please
> > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request
> > > free
> > > cd for free from you.
> >
> > See here:
> >
> > https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
> >
> > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't
> > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained
>
> I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and
> precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly
> donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because
> the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend
> his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his
> own time?
Assuming I might have a decent internet connection, a disc burner and
spare blank media I might consider helping out.
However, this particular request feels too much like someone just
wanting to take advantage of some freebie ("hey, I heard you give out
stuff for free so I want some"), as opposed to someone in real need
(hey, internet here is slow and/or metered, media burners are nowhere to
be found, etc., could someone help out?").
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
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Re: Request free live CD
On 2022-02-10 21:25, Celejar wrote: I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to give of our money as well to help others who need it? This does bring up two related points: 1. When you give time to help someone else it generally helps you too. In the sense that if you help out on this mailing list, trying to figure out how to help solve other people's problems, you learn about solutions that can be helpful to you as well. And you learn more about how systems work in general. If you maintain a package or write free software, it's generally packages or software that you yourself would find useful. When it comes to money, it often does not help you. Burning a live CD and mailing it to someone else, involves both time and money but doesn't help you. 2. In this specific scenario of live CD, there's an element of the saying, give someone a fish and you feed them for a day, teach them how to fish and you feed them for a lifetime. So you send this CD and they run or install the current version of the OS. Later on their system breaks down or they get a new one, or they want the next version of the OS, and what do they do then? Bijan
Re: Request free live CD
On Friday, February 11, 2022 02:44:26 PM Celejar wrote: > Fair enough, although the question then is why we enjoy giving of our > time but not our money. I assume that a primary motive of many (I can't > speak for anyone in particular, of course) who give of their time is a > desire to help others, and the act of helping others is what provides > enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy > helping others with financial contributions. For me, it is easier (emotionally) to give time rather than money. Although I'm not too bad off re money, I don't get my supply renewed everyday (well, for the most part, I do now get SS (in the US).
Re: Request free live CD
Hi, Celejar wrote: > the question then is why we enjoy giving of our > time but not our money. In my case it is because contributing to free software is not the same as sacrificing something that i could use more selfishly. I want it, i do it. That's paradise for a limited time. > why they would not enjoy > helping others with financial contributions. I have helped friends in need in the past. It has its own emotional rewards to do the right thing when necessary and possible. But i would not compare them with the state of mind when thinking about software or other interesting riddles. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Request free live CD
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:44:26 -0500 Celejar wrote: Hello Celejar, >enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy >helping others with financial contributions. Most of us can afford to give up some time. Not everyone can afford to give up money. I'm fortunate in being able to give up some of both. For that reason, I donate to various FLOSS projects annually. It changes year to year, but I've donated to various FLOSS projects over the years. -- Regards _ / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent" / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?" They really dig me man, and I dig them To Be Someone (Didn't We Have A Nice Time) - The Jam pgp8bJtuBK1NF.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Request free live CD
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 20:33:45 +0100 "Thomas Schmitt" wrote: > Hi, > > i wrote: > > > Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby." > > Celejar wrote: > > I think I'm missing your point. Explain, please? > > I contribute time because i like to do so. > Less entertaining would be to give away an optical medium, > to buy post stamps, and to reveil my real world postal address. Fair enough, although the question then is why we enjoy giving of our time but not our money. I assume that a primary motive of many (I can't speak for anyone in particular, of course) who give of their time is a desire to help others, and the act of helping others is what provides enjoyment to them, so then the question is why they would not enjoy helping others with financial contributions. Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
Hi, i wrote: > > Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby." Celejar wrote: > I think I'm missing your point. Explain, please? I contribute time because i like to do so. Less entertaining would be to give away an optical medium, to buy post stamps, and to reveil my real world postal address. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Request free live CD
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 09:00:22 -0500 Dan Ritter wrote: > Celejar wrote: > > > > I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least > > the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely > > give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us > > fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to > > give of our money as well to help others who need it? > > That's easy: time is much more effective than money in this > context. > > If you answer a question on this mailing list, it is recorded > and can be searched; hundreds or thousands of people can be > helped. > > If you fix a bug in a major package, millions of people will be > helped. Fair points, certainly, although many people spend much time even on very minor packages, and on helping people with very niche questions, where their answers are really unlikely to help hundreds or thousands of people. > If you donate the money that you make in an hour to postage and > media for DVDs or USB sticks, somewhere between a fraction of a > person and a couple of hundred will be helped -- for an average > US income, about 2 USB sticks. > > Money is great, but it is needed in business-sized quantities. > Any individual person with skills makes the community better off by > answering questions and fixing bugs than they would by donating > the equivalent time in money. > > As a corollary, if you can spend a couple of hours convincing a > business that runs Debian to donate some money, that's probably > an excellent use of your time. Indeed. Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
Celejar wrote: > > I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least > the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely > give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us > fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to > give of our money as well to help others who need it? That's easy: time is much more effective than money in this context. If you answer a question on this mailing list, it is recorded and can be searched; hundreds or thousands of people can be helped. If you fix a bug in a major package, millions of people will be helped. If you donate the money that you make in an hour to postage and media for DVDs or USB sticks, somewhere between a fraction of a person and a couple of hundred will be helped -- for an average US income, about 2 USB sticks. Money is great, but it is needed in business-sized quantities. Any individual person with skills makes the community better off by answering questions and fixing bugs than they would by donating the equivalent time in money. As a corollary, if you can spend a couple of hours convincing a business that runs Debian to donate some money, that's probably an excellent use of your time. -dsr-
Re: Request free live CD
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:58:51 +0100 "Thomas Schmitt" wrote: > Hi, > > Celejar wrote: > > Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? > > Let me quote from a classic british play: > > The Doctor: "Do i pay you ? I should give you a raise." > Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby." I found the quote: https://www.tvfanatic.com/quotes/youre-not-my-boss-youre-my-hobby/ But I think I'm missing your point. Explain, please? Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
Hi, Celejar wrote: > Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Let me quote from a classic british play: The Doctor: "Do i pay you ? I should give you a raise." Clara Oswald: "You're not my boss, you're my hobby." Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: Request free live CD
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 08:05:32PM -0500, Celejar wrote: > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100 > wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote: > > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please > > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request > > > free > > > cd for free from you. > > > > See here: > > > > https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd > > > > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't > > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained > > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his > own time? I can answer that only for myself: currently I've more decision power over my time than over my money. Were this the other way around, I might decide the other way around, too :-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Request free live CD
On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 20:51:42 -0500 Bijan Soleymani wrote: > On 2022-02-10 20:05, Celejar wrote: > > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and > > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because > > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend > > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his > > own time? > > I think this is the distinction between free speech and free beer (two > different meanings of the word free in English). > > That is the difference between freedom (no restrictions), and something > being gratis (no cost). > > Debian is committed to free software, as in users are free to modify the > software, and they have access to the source code. > > Debian is not a charity that provides free hardware to people who need > computers. > > Since there is not much cost to distributing software online Debian does > so for free (on their servers and through mirrors), but the important > goal is that the users who get the software have the freedom to modify it. > See: > https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines > > and > > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html > > (the related point in the Debian Free Software Guidelines that there > cannot be a fee required to distribute the software, doesn't mean that > one can't charge a fee (for either a CD or download), but rather that > one can't put requirements on further redistribution after that) I do understand and agree with this, but my point was that we (at least the more helpful of us) on this list are perfectly willing to freely give of our time to help others, so why would we (at least those of us fortunate enough to have disposable income to spare) not be willing to give of our money as well to help others who need it? Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
On 2022-02-10 20:05, Celejar wrote: I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his own time? I think this is the distinction between free speech and free beer (two different meanings of the word free in English). That is the difference between freedom (no restrictions), and something being gratis (no cost). Debian is committed to free software, as in users are free to modify the software, and they have access to the source code. Debian is not a charity that provides free hardware to people who need computers. Since there is not much cost to distributing software online Debian does so for free (on their servers and through mirrors), but the important goal is that the users who get the software have the freedom to modify it. See: https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines and https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html (the related point in the Debian Free Software Guidelines that there cannot be a fee required to distribute the software, doesn't mean that one can't charge a fee (for either a CD or download), but rather that one can't put requirements on further redistribution after that) Bijan
Re: Request free live CD
On Thu, 10 Feb 2022, Celejar wrote: > On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100 > wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote: >>> Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please >>> what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free >>> cd for free from you. >> >> See here: >> >> https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd >> >> Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't >> expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained > > I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and > precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly > donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because > the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend > his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his > own time? > > Celejar > What
Re: Request free live CD
On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:47:18 +0100 wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote: > > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please > > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free > > cd for free from you. > > See here: > > https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd > > Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't > expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained I'm genuinely curious about this: time and money are both scarce and precious resources. Why is there an assumption that people will gladly donate of their time to help others, but not their money? Is it because the assumption is that the person asking for help should just spend his own money, but may not be able to solve his problem by spending his own time? Celejar
Re: Request free live CD
On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 03:05:26PM +0100, Dozzyjean Dozie wrote: > Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please > what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free > cd for free from you. See here: https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd Since burning a CD and putting into the mail costs money, you can't expect someone doing it for you. In the above page it is explained how you can either download an image and burn it yourself, or order it from a service (there is a list linked from the above page), but then, you'll have to pay. Prices are not very high, though. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Request free live CD
Please I will be very much interested to get a live CD from you, please what are the prerequisites that are needed to be archived this request free cd for free from you. Thanks Dozie Dozzyjean
