Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
On 2021-08-20 5:22 p.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > > On 2021-08-19 5:33 p.m., Brian wrote: >> On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 14:45:16 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 2021-08-19 2:18 p.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote: Hi, Steve McIntyre wrote: >>> This mailing list, like all >>> Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing >>> list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct: >>> [...] >>> Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad >>> behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders. >>> >>> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think >>> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open >>> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: >> [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess >> the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. Well then: Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world. https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org OMG ! That's a truckload of contribution ! https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer". So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority. >>> I misunderstood the message from Steve and have sent him a apologies (in >>> private). >>> >>> It wasn't my goal to provoke anyone here. >>> >>> And I'd like to add, now that I know that he's been the one that got the >>> hard job of working with Microsoft. Thank you Steve for you hard work >>> and be assured that I'm sure you had hard time convincing Microsoft that >>> it would be good that they help us so we can get secure boot. I remember >>> using secure boot in 2009 so it's been a long time since all this >>> started and at that time they were not much into open source. >>> >>> Thank you Steve and sorry for taking your limited time. >> >> A illustration of "collapse of stout party" comes to mind her :). >> > Thank you > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
On 2021-08-19 5:33 p.m., Brian wrote: > On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 14:45:16 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >> >> >> On 2021-08-19 2:18 p.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Steve McIntyre wrote: >> This mailing list, like all >> Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing >> list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct: >> [...] >> Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad >> behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders. >> >> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think >> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open >> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. >>> >>> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess > the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. >>> >>> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. >>> >>> Well then: >>> >>> Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of >>> Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with >>> Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most >>> influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world. >>> >>> https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org >>> https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre >>> >>> >>> Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title >>> of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer". >>> So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems >>> somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority. >>> >> I misunderstood the message from Steve and have sent him a apologies (in >> private). >> >> It wasn't my goal to provoke anyone here. >> >> And I'd like to add, now that I know that he's been the one that got the >> hard job of working with Microsoft. Thank you Steve for you hard work >> and be assured that I'm sure you had hard time convincing Microsoft that >> it would be good that they help us so we can get secure boot. I remember >> using secure boot in 2009 so it's been a long time since all this >> started and at that time they were not much into open source. >> >> Thank you Steve and sorry for taking your limited time. > > A illustration of "collapse of stout party" comes to mind her :). > Thank you -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
On Thu 19 Aug 2021 at 14:45:16 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > > On 2021-08-19 2:18 p.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Steve McIntyre wrote: > This mailing list, like all > Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing > list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct: > [...] > Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad > behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders. > > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think > you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open > source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. > > > > Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > >>> [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess > >>> the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. > > > > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > >> Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. > > > > Well then: > > > > Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of > > Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with > > Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most > > influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world. > > > > https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org > > https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre > > > > > > Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title > > of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer". > > So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems > > somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority. > > > I misunderstood the message from Steve and have sent him a apologies (in > private). > > It wasn't my goal to provoke anyone here. > > And I'd like to add, now that I know that he's been the one that got the > hard job of working with Microsoft. Thank you Steve for you hard work > and be assured that I'm sure you had hard time convincing Microsoft that > it would be good that they help us so we can get secure boot. I remember > using secure boot in 2009 so it's been a long time since all this > started and at that time they were not much into open source. > > Thank you Steve and sorry for taking your limited time. A illustration of "collapse of stout party" comes to mind her :). -- Brian.
Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside writes: > On 2021-08-19 11:58 a.m., Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: >> >> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside writes: >> >>> On 2021-08-19 11:12 a.m., Steve McIntyre wrote: wea...@riseup.net wrote: > On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote: > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. > Strange to say it's not meant to be something that I'm related to, as he > comment on a opinion I had and goes on to say that I'm trying to pass > something as politically correct. > > Anyway kind of useless to have any type of explanation here. You'll all > be more into telling your friends they are right and keeping this as if > it's your own club house. And pushing away everything that is not in > your line of view. > > I've known for long time that computer flavored mailing list we're > mostly male oriented and that the respect for others was only existing > in the view of "don't bother me". You should probably have some cup of tea, go take some fresh air and come back with a better state of mind. With best regards, -- PEB signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
On 2021-08-19 2:18 p.m., Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Steve McIntyre wrote: This mailing list, like all Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct: [...] Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders. If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. > > Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: >>> [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess >>> the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. > > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: >> Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. > > Well then: > > Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of > Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with > Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most > influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world. > > https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org > https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre > > > Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title > of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer". > So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems > somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority. > I misunderstood the message from Steve and have sent him a apologies (in private). It wasn't my goal to provoke anyone here. And I'd like to add, now that I know that he's been the one that got the hard job of working with Microsoft. Thank you Steve for you hard work and be assured that I'm sure you had hard time convincing Microsoft that it would be good that they help us so we can get secure boot. I remember using secure boot in 2009 so it's been a long time since all this started and at that time they were not much into open source. Thank you Steve and sorry for taking your limited time. > > Have a nice day :) > > Thomas > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 08:18:50PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Steve McIntyre wrote: > > > > This mailing list, like all > > > > Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing > > > > list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct: > > > > [...] > > > > Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad > > > > behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders. > > > > > > > > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think > > > > you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open > > > > source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. > > Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > > > [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess > > > the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. > > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > > Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. > > Well then: > > Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of > Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with > Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most > influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world. > > https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org > https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre > > > Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title > of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer". > So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems > somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority. > > > Have a nice day :) > > Thomas > People, There's a lot of sniping back and forward, flaming and general bad behaviour. Various people have asked nicely, put forward polite comments and suggested constructive ways forward. I've written to the list: Steve has also been constrained to weigh in. However exasperated any individual may be, however tempting it is to pile in with a sarcastic comment: stop now, enough. The state of this particular list in the last fortnight or so has not been an example for anyone. The mega threads have effectively become unreadable. As previously, I'm not going to single out individuals on list - many of you know and recognise significantly better standards of mailing list behaviour than you may yourselves have shown in the past couple of weeks. Follow them. As ever, this list remains subject to the Debian Code of Conduct and the Debian mailing list code of conduct. Can we get back to providing support for users, new and old, and something good and worthwhile in the way we communicate with each other? Respect goes upwards downwards and sideways from an individual: it may have to be earned over time: it can surely be lost in an instant. Regards Andy Cater [For the Community Team]
Re: Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
Hi, Steve McIntyre wrote: > > > This mailing list, like all > > > Debian-hosted mailing lists, is subject to both the Debian mailing > > > list Code of Conduct and the main Debian Code of Conduct: > > > [...] > > > Inappropriate behaviour on the list may lead to warnings; repeated bad > > > behaviour may lead to temporary or permanent bans for offenders. > > > > > > If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think > > > you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open > > > source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > > [...] Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess > > the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote: > Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. Well then: Three cheers for Steve McIntyre, former Debian Project Leader, carer of Debian boot capabilities including the inavoidable cooperation with Microsoft to get Debian working on Secure Boot EFI, and one of the most influencial users of my own contribution to the free software world. https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=93sam%40debian.org https://wiki.debian.org/SteveMcIntyre Also he is one of the people who were addressed by the previous title of this thread: "moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfer". So giving him back-talk in respect to list rules and conventions seems somewhat like asking for a demonstration of his authority. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Respect for newbies and new comers [ was : moderators, I would appreciate if you could interfere ]
On 2021-08-19 11:58 a.m., Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > > Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside writes: > >> On 2021-08-19 11:12 a.m., Steve McIntyre wrote: >>> wea...@riseup.net wrote: On 16-08-2021 11:29, lou wrote: >>> If you're trying to label that as "politically correct" then I think >>> you may need to change your expectations. The "principles of open >>> source" do not include a free pass to be abusive to others. Strange to say it's not meant to be something that I'm related to, as he comment on a opinion I had and goes on to say that I'm trying to pass something as politically correct. Anyway kind of useless to have any type of explanation here. You'll all be more into telling your friends they are right and keeping this as if it's your own club house. And pushing away everything that is not in your line of view. I've known for long time that computer flavored mailing list we're mostly male oriented and that the respect for others was only existing in the view of "don't bother me". > > As Steve did not send this mail to you, I would not take it personally. > > And even though it were, Steve's message is pretty explicit, so I guess > the message he is trying to pass here is quite clear. > Great for him, cheer if you feel like it. If mine wasn't clear enough, now it is. Leave alone the newbies if you can't be kind and full of comprehension for them. In case it was missed... The world has changed and so does the user on this list. Some people may say "I've been on this list for 20 years, was better before". Yes it was different before but those are changes that goes with the fact that now Linux is more democratic. Some distribution made good publicity (I think of Ubuntu) and this made more people start using Linux, even ones that weren't system admins or that weren't forced to use a Unix/Linux system to run some specific application or services. And Debian itself got easier to use, with a widespread support for most common hardware on the x86/x64 platform. Wasn't the goal of all this to get new users to Debian ? Don't we want as much user as possible to use Debian ? So that they can also test the software we all use and give us feedback, even discover bugs that didn't pop up at us ? We can't expect all those new users to be Cisco certified network administrator or to have a master degree in computer science, being able to write in assembly language, C/C++/Fortran and some Lisp too. We have to accept those new users and remember that we also asked question that seem stupid for others and we also asked question that the answer we're in the first page of the manual. If we can look at ourselves and that's not something that everyone seems able to do. Or we can join the club of all the people nostalgic of the soviet union and the 1970s and dream of the cold war but if we do so then we must also go back using a 1200 baud modem and a teletype. If we can't be kind then we must abstain. > Regards, > -- > PEB > -- Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
