Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Mike McClain]

On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:17:04PM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:59:53AM -0700, Mike McClain wrote:
> > 
> > How does /usr/bin/mail know to put outbound mail in /var/spool/exim4/input?
> /usr/bin/main calls /usr/sbin/sendmail . This happens to be exim .

OK, that makes sense. 
I shutdown exim's deamon last night before retiring and had mail from
cron this morning before restarting exim.
I would guess that Mutt does the same since messages sent from Mutt 
when exim's deamon is not running still get into the mailq.

> 
> > No, rather fetchmail failed since there was no connection on port 25.
> According to fetchmailrc(5) , try adding the following to your
> .fetchmailrc:
> 
>   mda "/usr/sbin/sendmail -i -f %F -- %T"

Thanks for the suggestion, I'd seen that,
just hadn't gotten up the nerve to try it.

> Shouldn't this be the default?

Should is a loaded word. 
This is Debian.

Thanks Tzafrir,
Mike
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:59:53AM -0700, Mike McClain wrote:
> Hi Osamu,
> Thanks for the response. I really don't get it when it comes to mail.
> MTA/MDA/MUA are kind of confusing, if you know where I can find a 2 page
> explanation of email I'd really like to read it.
> I use /usr/bin/mail, mutt, fetchmail and exim4.
> 
> The man page for /usr/bin/mail claims it's a "mail processing system".
> Mutt is an MUA.
> Fetchmail's man page claims, 'mail-retrieval and forwarding utility'.
> Exim4's manpage claims it's an MTA, but fetchmail's manpage refers to
> exim as an MDA.
> 
> How does /usr/bin/mail know to put outbound mail in /var/spool/exim4/input?

/usr/bin/main calls /usr/sbin/sendmail . This happens to be exim .

> I killed the exim daemon and mail still puts mail in .../exim4/input
> even though 'exim4/input' doesn't appear in any file in /etc/ or
> root's environment.
> 
> > > When I tried this and the mail stopped getting delivered until I
> > > restored /etc/default/exim4.
> > 
> > Are you talking about delivering to external hosts?
> 
> No, rather fetchmail failed since there was no connection on port 25.

According to fetchmailrc(5) , try adding the following to your
.fetchmailrc:


  mda "/usr/sbin/sendmail -i -f %F -- %T"

Shouldn't this be the default?

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

Unless you are very low in memory and lacks CPU power and swap space, it
is not worth the trouble to do nodaemon.  I do not use it.

I use QUEUERUNNER='queueonly' now since I do not need to have SMTP port
listening daemon but nice to have queue daemon.  My laptop is normal one
and is powerful enough not to worry swapping problem.

I made few post on nondaemon as for people with extreme concern on
having daemon.  Please understand it as "it can be done". But I think it
is not really worth the trouble for most of us.

For the sake of learning mail system, I respond to some of your points.

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:59:53AM -0700, Mike McClain wrote:
> Hi Osamu,
> Thanks for the response. I really don't get it when it comes to mail.

Have you read 
  
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch06.en.html#_the_mail_system

> MTA/MDA/MUA are kind of confusing, if you know where I can find a 2 page
> explanation of email I'd really like to read it.
> I use /usr/bin/mail, mutt, fetchmail and exim4.

Big questions are:
 * do you want outgoing mail?
 * do you want functioning /etc/aliases ?

> The man page for /usr/bin/mail claims it's a "mail processing system".

It will send mail using sendmail(8).  It will put mail in outgoing
queue.  Sendmail also run as queue daemon.  If it sees mail in queue, it
send out. 

> Mutt is an MUA.
> Fetchmail's man page claims, 'mail-retrieval and forwarding utility'.
> Exim4's manpage claims it's an MTA, but fetchmail's manpage refers to
> exim as an MDA.

exim works as both MTA and MDA depending on how it is used.  it may pass
message to another MDA such as procmail too.

> How does /usr/bin/mail know to put outbound mail in /var/spool/exim4/input?
> I killed the exim daemon and mail still puts mail in .../exim4/input
> even though 'exim4/input' doesn't appear in any file in /etc/ or
> root's environment.

Since daemon are for listening to SMTP mail to recieve mail and queue
processing, this happens.

> > > When I tried this and the mail stopped getting delivered until I
> > > restored /etc/default/exim4.

Because you are did not process queue.  "exim -q" command does it.  In
normal daemon mode, exim do this from daemon every 15 min. or so.

> > Are you talking about delivering to external hosts?
> 
> No, rather fetchmail failed since there was no connection on port 25.

So configure it to use pipe.

 
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch06.en.html#_the_remote_mail_retrieval_and_forward_utility

> > Sure, that what you did unless you run some explicit command, cron script 
> > or hook script.
> 
> Would you restate this another way? I'm not understanding it.

I explained as above: "exim -q".

> > daemon has 2 functionalities:
> >  (1) listening to port 25 (SMTP) to get connected from external hosts.
> >  (2) pushing out queued messages to hosts.
> > 
> > You certainly do not need (1) 
> 
> OK, fetchmail's manpage gives examples for connecting directly to procmail
> and sendmail

Here sendmail is generic mail interface command name.  exim also provide
it.  This is what you want to do.  connecting via pipe.

> but not exim and exim4's 30 page/60 screen manpage said nothing
> about it's return value on disk full and I didn't see anything to suggest
> how to take input directly from fetchmail.

If error happens, pipe becomes broken and fetchmail understand there is
problem.

> Further exploration shows that sendmail is actually a link to exim so
> I guess that would work but I saw in another thread that cron's messages
> won't get delivered if there's no MTA deamon running. True?

I thought it needs to have sendmail command but not daemon listening to
SMTP port.

> > but you still need to do (2) if you wish
> > to send mail to external host via local mail system like exim or
> > postfix.  (If you configure MUA to connect to external MTA directly this
> > is not issue.)
> > 
> > Simple fix is to use queueonly or ppp instead.  (Since you are dialup,
> > ppp is more suitable to save fee.)
> 
> OK I set QUEUERUNNER='ppp' and the mail went out but there is still
> an exim deamon running, not sure how that helped.

This send mail by executing hook script in /etc/network/if-up.d when ip
connection is created.  

In case of nodaemon, you need to do "exim -q" to send mail if you send
mail via exim after ppp connection.
 
> > As I think of this for mutt, it may be easier to create shell script
> > which runs "exim -q" or postfix's equivalent command when mutt
> > terminates or receive SIGTERM etc.  
> > 
> > 
> > Please note that we are talking laptop type use case. 
> How would this differ from a desktop on dialup?

laptop: I should have said no swap, low CPU power laptop.  normal laptop
like mine has enough of everything.
 
> >  * /usr/sbin/sendmail is available and it can work with /etc/aliases.
> >  * log daemon may send some mail but to local user
> >  * send messages via smarthost with 
> >- the message submission port (587) or 
> >- SMTP/

Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Nate Bargmann]

I save myself a lot of pain and use the esmtp package with Mutt.  It
handles sending mail to my ISP and I don't need sophisticated local
delivery so it works for me.  I wandered back into Exim land earlier
this year and it wasn't pretty.

- Nate >>

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Mike McClain]

Hi Osamu,
Thanks for the response. I really don't get it when it comes to mail.
MTA/MDA/MUA are kind of confusing, if you know where I can find a 2 page
explanation of email I'd really like to read it.
I use /usr/bin/mail, mutt, fetchmail and exim4.

The man page for /usr/bin/mail claims it's a "mail processing system".
Mutt is an MUA.
Fetchmail's man page claims, 'mail-retrieval and forwarding utility'.
Exim4's manpage claims it's an MTA, but fetchmail's manpage refers to
exim as an MDA.

How does /usr/bin/mail know to put outbound mail in /var/spool/exim4/input?
I killed the exim daemon and mail still puts mail in .../exim4/input
even though 'exim4/input' doesn't appear in any file in /etc/ or
root's environment.

> > When I tried this and the mail stopped getting delivered until I
> > restored /etc/default/exim4.
> 
> Are you talking about delivering to external hosts?

No, rather fetchmail failed since there was no connection on port 25.

> Sure, that what you did unless you run some explicit command, cron script or 
> hook script.

Would you restate this another way? I'm not understanding it.

> 
> daemon has 2 functionalities:
>  (1) listening to port 25 (SMTP) to get connected from external hosts.
>  (2) pushing out queued messages to hosts.
> 
> You certainly do not need (1) 

OK, fetchmail's manpage gives examples for connecting directly to procmail
and sendmail but not exim and exim4's 30 page/60 screen manpage said nothing
about it's return value on disk full and I didn't see anything to suggest
how to take input directly from fetchmail.
Further exploration shows that sendmail is actually a link to exim so
I guess that would work but I saw in another thread that cron's messages
won't get delivered if there's no MTA deamon running. True?

> but you still need to do (2) if you wish
> to send mail to external host via local mail system like exim or
> postfix.  (If you configure MUA to connect to external MTA directly this
> is not issue.)
> 
> Simple fix is to use queueonly or ppp instead.  (Since you are dialup,
> ppp is more suitable to save fee.)

OK I set QUEUERUNNER='ppp' and the mail went out but there is still
an exim deamon running, not sure how that helped.

> 
> As I think of this for mutt, it may be easier to create shell script
> which runs "exim -q" or postfix's equivalent command when mutt
> terminates or receive SIGTERM etc.  
> 
> 
> Please note that we are talking laptop type use case. 
How would this differ from a desktop on dialup?

> 
>  * /usr/sbin/sendmail is available and it can work with /etc/aliases.
>  * log daemon may send some mail but to local user
>  * send messages via smarthost with 
>- the message submission port (587) or 
>- SMTP/SSL port (465)
>  * receive messages via ISP using getmail or fetchmail with
>- POP3 (110) or 
>- TLS/POP3 port (995).
> 
> Quite likely, you have cron or daemon doing POP3. I use cron to run
> getmail every 15 min when IP connection is active.  I could stop exim
> and run it from similar script.
> 
  
No, I just have a script that connects if not already connected
then runs exim4 -qqff and fetchmail then shuts down the connection
if it opened it.

Thanks aagin,
Mike
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Re: [solved] Starting MTA:

[Klaus Jantzen]

On 09/18/2009 02:07 PM, ludovico van wrote:

Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and
various packages install cron jobs implicitly.

However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is
lighter-weight than exim4?



what i do on my computers is putting
QUEUERUNNER='nodaemon'
in /etc/default/exim4

this way no exim daemon is started at all, but i still can get my
mails from anacron.

Bye


  
In addition to changing the configuration of exim4 as suggested by 
Florian I also changed the above mentioned option

and now booting is fast and I have not encountered any problems (so far).

Thanks.

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Osamu Aoki]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 09:52:59AM -0700, Mike McClain wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 01:28:21AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
>  
> > Then you need an MTA/MDA and just don't run it in daemon mode.  I fail 
> Earlier in this thread someone suggested editing /etc/default/exim4
> setting QUEUERUNNER='nodaemon'.
> When I tried this and the mail stopped getting delivered until I
> restored /etc/default/exim4.
> What is it I missed?
> This is a mostly Etch P1 system on dialup, if that matters.
> Thanks,
> Mike

Are you talking about delivering to external hosts?

Sure, that what you did unless you run some explicit command, cron script or 
hook script.

daemon has 2 functionalities:

 (1) listening to port 25 (SMTP) to get connected from external hosts.
 (2) pushing out queued messages to hosts.

You certainly do not need (1) but you still need to do (2) if you wish
to send mail to external host via local mail system like exim or
postfix.  (If you configure MUA to connect to external MTA directly this
is not issue.)

Simple fix is to use queueonly or ppp instead.  (Since you are dialup,
ppp is more suitable to save fee.)

As I think of this for mutt, it may be easier to create shell script
which runs "exim -q" or postfix's equivalent command when mutt
terminates or receive SIGTERM etc.  

If you are using pigeon etc, reconfiguring it to use external
relay host directly is your answer.

Please note that we are talking laptop type use case. 

 * /usr/sbin/sendmail is available and it can work with /etc/aliases.
 * log daemon may send some mail but to local user
 * send messages via smarthost with 
   - the message submission port (587) or 
   - SMTP/SSL port (465)
 * receive messages via ISP using getmail or fetchmail with
   - POP3 (110) or 
   - TLS/POP3 port (995).

Quite likely, you have cron or daemon doing POP3. I use cron to run
getmail every 15 min when IP connection is active.  I could stop exim
and run it from similar script.

FYI: my current getmail script run from user's cron:

#!/bin/sh
set -e
# if network is down, do nothing
if ip link show eth0 |fgrep -q "state DOWN" ; then exit 0; fi
#
rcfiles="/usr/bin/getmail"
if [ -f $rcfiles/stop ] ; then exit 0; fi
#
for file in $HOME/.getmail/config/* ; do
  rcfiles="$rcfiles --rcfile $file"
done
exec $rcfiles $@

 


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 04:23:34AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
>> Not running a daemon means that you have the overhead of startup for
>> each new delivery. It implies less efficient handling of a queued mail.
>
> Given that he is doing this for local messages from daemons only I think
> resident memory is the primary concern, not efficiency of once or twice a 
> day deliveries.  Something I can understand given that I've moved most of 
> my productivity work to a Dell Mini.  The thought of having an MTA 
> resident all the time doesn't exactly fill me with glee.  Not that this 
> machine can't handle it (it is more capable than most people think) but 
> because this machine has no business having a resident MTA.

What desktop are you running there?

How many panel applets?

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Mike McClain]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 01:28:21AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
 
> Then you need an MTA/MDA and just don't run it in daemon mode.  I fail 
Earlier in this thread someone suggested editing /etc/default/exim4
setting QUEUERUNNER='nodaemon'.
When I tried this and the mail stopped getting delivered until I
restored /etc/default/exim4.
What is it I missed?
This is a mostly Etch P1 system on dialup, if that matters.
Thanks,
Mike

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Steve Kemp]

On Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 15:04:57 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> > http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/skxmail/
> >
> >Works for me on my laptops..
>
> That looks very interesting. Why isn't it available from official Debian
> repos?

  Because exim, postfix, nullmailer, ssmtp, all exist already and
 despite that we still seem to have regular discussions about which
 is best, and which is the most lightweight for desktops.

  I don't have the patience to get involved on the whole.

  I also saw this recently:

http://blog.fortytwo.ch/archives/53-Introducing-Pony-Express.html

> It might solve the endless "let's make postfix the default MTA in
> Debian" threads on debian-devel.

  Unlikely!

Steve
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon,21.Sep.09, 10:32:19, Steve Kemp wrote:
> 
> http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/skxmail/
> 
>Works for me on my laptops..

That looks very interesting. Why isn't it available from official Debian 
repos? It might solve the endless "let's make postfix the default MTA in 
Debian" threads on debian-devel.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Florian Kriener]

On Monday 21 September 2009 10:06:25 Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon,21.Sep.09, 00:48:29, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > >Besides (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) cron doesn't need
> > >an MTA listening on port 25, it uses /sbin/sendmail.
> >
> > Ok, first response was that nullmailer might work.  Is the
> > intent to get it to another MTA which doe the final delivery
> > nullmailer works.  If it is for delivery on the local machine then
> > you need an MTA/MDA.
> 
> Well the requirements were:
> 
> - respects /etc/aliases
> - able to do local delivery
> 
> NOT required (and not desired):
> 
> - listening to port 25

You could use postfix and disable smtpd in master.cf.


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Steve Lamb]

Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

Not running a daemon means that you have the overhead of startup for
each new delivery. It implies less efficient handling of a queued mail.


Given that he is doing this for local messages from daemons only I think
resident memory is the primary concern, not efficiency of once or twice a day 
deliveries.  Something I can understand given that I've moved most of my 
productivity work to a Dell Mini.  The thought of having an MTA resident all 
the time doesn't exactly fill me with glee.  Not that this machine can't 
handle it (it is more capable than most people think) but because this machine 
has no business having a resident MTA.



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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:06:25AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> Well the requirements were:
> 
> - respects /etc/aliases
> - able to do local delivery
> 
> NOT required (and not desired):
> 
> - listening to port 25

What's wrong with listening on localhost:25 ?

IIRC this is the default configuration of both exim and postfix on 
Debian.

Not running a daemon means that you have the overhead of startup for
each new delivery. It implies less efficient handling of a queued mail.

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 09:30:28AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> And did some research. From the packages providing mail-transport-agent 
> (except the usual candidates) only xmail and dma seem interesting.
> 
> Does anyone have experience with any of the two?

I tried using xmail for a while, but it didn't seem capable enough. It
is too much of a stnd-alone server. The documentation wasn't very clear
and configuration files weren't convinient.

I would generally avoid using a mailer that doesn't queue on computers
that may be disconnected from the mail hub.

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Steve Kemp]

On Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 11:06:25 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Mon,21.Sep.09, 00:48:29, Steve Lamb wrote:
> > Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > >Besides (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) cron doesn't need
> > >an MTA listening on port 25, it uses /sbin/sendmail.
> >
> > Ok, first response was that nullmailer might work.  Is the
> > intent to get it to another MTA which doe the final delivery
> > nullmailer works.  If it is for delivery on the local machine then
> > you need an MTA/MDA.
>
> Well the requirements were:
>
> - respects /etc/aliases
> - able to do local delivery
>
> NOT required (and not desired):
>
> - listening to port 25

http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/skxmail/

   Works for me on my laptops..

Steve
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Rakotomandimby Mihamina]

09/21/2009 11:46 AM, Andrei Popescu:

- respects /etc/aliases
- able to do local delivery

Postfix with its non-monolithic architecture would help; but you'll
need an MDA in that case (Exim fills both roles).

Huh? Postfix works fine without an MDA...


He did not tell Postfix doesnt work. Or my english understanding is very bad :-)


- I don't want to run a listening MTA on some machine just for that


Most (All) MTA are able to listen to _just_ a set of IP addresses:
- 127.0.0.1
- 192.168.x.x


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Steve Lamb]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

- I don't want to run a listening MTA on some machine just for that


Then don't run it in daemon mode.  Not seeing the problem here.  It isn't 
like when it is called locally it binds to port 25.


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon,21.Sep.09, 01:28:21, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >Well the requirements were:
> 
> >- respects /etc/aliases
> >- able to do local delivery
> 
> Then you need an MTA/MDA and just don't run it in daemon mode.
> I fail to see what the issue is with Exim in that case.  If runsize
> for the transient time it is delivering mail is a problem maybe
> Postfix with its non-monolithic architecture would help; but you'll
> need an MDA in that case (Exim fills both roles).
 
Huh? Postfix works fine without an MDA...

> Personally I don't understand why one wants local delivery of
> those messages.  I toss nullmailer on my machines, have it deliver
> to my domain's MTA and get delivered to my normal email.  If I went
> the local delivery route I'd have 5 different local accounts to
> monitor.  :/

- I don't want to run a listening MTA on some machine just for that
- I don't want to send root mail via some external provider
- the bash mail notification whenever I login via ssh is enough for me.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Steve Lamb]

Andrei Popescu wrote:

Well the requirements were:



- respects /etc/aliases
- able to do local delivery


Then you need an MTA/MDA and just don't run it in daemon mode.  I fail to 
see what the issue is with Exim in that case.  If runsize for the transient 
time it is delivering mail is a problem maybe Postfix with its non-monolithic 
architecture would help; but you'll need an MDA in that case (Exim fills both 
roles).


Personally I don't understand why one wants local delivery of those 
messages.  I toss nullmailer on my machines, have it deliver to my domain's 
MTA and get delivered to my normal email.  If I went the local delivery route 
I'd have 5 different local accounts to monitor.  :/


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon,21.Sep.09, 00:48:29, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >Besides (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) cron doesn't need
> >an MTA listening on port 25, it uses /sbin/sendmail.
> 
> Ok, first response was that nullmailer might work.  Is the
> intent to get it to another MTA which doe the final delivery
> nullmailer works.  If it is for delivery on the local machine then
> you need an MTA/MDA.

Well the requirements were:

- respects /etc/aliases
- able to do local delivery

NOT required (and not desired):

- listening to port 25

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Andrei
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Steve Lamb]

Andrei Popescu wrote:
Besides (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) cron doesn't need an 
MTA listening on port 25, it uses /sbin/sendmail.


Ok, first response was that nullmailer might work.  Is the intent to get 
it to another MTA which doe the final delivery nullmailer works.  If it is for 
delivery on the local machine then you need an MTA/MDA.


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Rakotomandimby Mihamina]

09/21/2009 10:36 AM, Andrei Popescu:

However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is
lighter-weight than exim4?

I'm interested as well.

What about launching MTA from (x)inetd?

If I'm not mistaken that would replace one daemon (the MTA) with another
one ((x)inetd). What advantage is this supposed to bring?


- (x)inetd might be already installed => nothing to add
- (x)inetd might be lighter than (any?) standalone MTA
- ...


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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Mon,21.Sep.09, 09:58:45, Rakotomandimby Mihamina wrote:
> 09/17/2009 07:48 PM, Andrei Popescu:
> >>Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and
> >>various packages install cron jobs implicitly.
> >>However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is
> >>lighter-weight than exim4?
> >I'm interested as well.
> 
> What about launching MTA from (x)inetd?

If I'm not mistaken that would replace one daemon (the MTA) with another 
one ((x)inetd). What advantage is this supposed to bring?

Besides (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) cron doesn't need an 
MTA listening on port 25, it uses /sbin/sendmail.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Rakotomandimby Mihamina]

09/17/2009 07:48 PM, Andrei Popescu:

Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and
various packages install cron jobs implicitly.
However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is
lighter-weight than exim4?

I'm interested as well.


What about launching MTA from (x)inetd?

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Re: Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Thu,17.Sep.09, 19:48:06, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Thu,17.Sep.09, 08:14:30, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>  
> > Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and 
> > various packages install cron jobs implicitly.
> > 
> > However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is 
> > lighter-weight than exim4?
> 
> I'm interested as well.

And did some research. From the packages providing mail-transport-agent 
(except the usual candidates) only xmail and dma seem interesting.

Does anyone have experience with any of the two?

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Starting MTA: nodaemon and queueonly

[Osamu Aoki]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 02:07:21PM +0200, ludovico van wrote:
> > Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and
> > various packages install cron jobs implicitly.
> >
> > However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is
> > lighter-weight than exim4?
> 
> what i do on my computers is putting
> QUEUERUNNER='nodaemon'
> in /etc/default/exim4
> 
> this way no exim daemon is started at all, but i still can get my
> mails from anacron.

This is one of the best advice.

exim4 itself is very small and light and good to support alias etc.

ssmtp and nullmailer are well known non-daemon lightweight sendmail
facility but they do not do local mail delivery right.

But with this, we get non-daemon lightweight sendmail without short
coming.

Any negatives?

(Of course, if we need queue, we can always do "queueonly")
 
Osamu


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Re: Starting MTA:

[ludovico van]

> Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and
> various packages install cron jobs implicitly.
>
> However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is
> lighter-weight than exim4?

what i do on my computers is putting
QUEUERUNNER='nodaemon'
in /etc/default/exim4

this way no exim daemon is started at all, but i still can get my
mails from anacron.

Bye


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Re: Starting MTA:

[Dale]

2009/9/18 Tom H :
> k.d.jant...@t-online.de wrote:
>>> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
>>> Starting MTA:
>>> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes
>>> quite some time.
>>> What does that mean?
>>> Do I have to have that?
>>> If not, how can I get rid of it.
>
> quail.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> If you just got a desktop or laptop setup you don't really need a mail
>> server running. So removal is very simple all you have to do is:
>> apt-get remove --purge at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-base exim4-config
>> exim4-daemon-light
>
> I agree with Dale. On a laptop or a desktop, there may not even be any
> mail sent. Check whether there is any mail in /var/spool/mail. My
> netbook does not have any - for any user.
>
> If you are unsure (given the other responses), you could run
> update-rc.d -f exim remove
> to stop exim from running without changing any of its settings.
>
> If you decide to uninstall exim, see Dale's email.
>
> I you decide to reset exim to its original init params, run
> update-rc.d exim4 start 20 1 2 3 4 . stop 20 0 1 6 . (<-- note the period)
>

True I maintain a mixture of Debian boxes and the only ones that have
mail servers on them are servers or firewall / gateway / routers to
send mail local or across a network to a central computer for the
purpose of getting logs sent from programs like bind9, syslog,
rkhunter, etc.  And for the Desktop environments I have not had them
send any emails due to the nature of the software they are running.

In a corporate environment you may need desktops to send system based
emails to a central mail server to catch minor problems early before
they come a major problem.



Regards
Dale
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Re: Starting MTA:

[Tom H]

k.d.jant...@t-online.de wrote:
>> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
>> Starting MTA:
>> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes
>> quite some time.
>> What does that mean?
>> Do I have to have that?
>> If not, how can I get rid of it.

quail.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> If you just got a desktop or laptop setup you don't really need a mail
> server running. So removal is very simple all you have to do is:
> apt-get remove --purge at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-base exim4-config
> exim4-daemon-light

I agree with Dale. On a laptop or a desktop, there may not even be any
mail sent. Check whether there is any mail in /var/spool/mail. My
netbook does not have any - for any user.

If you are unsure (given the other responses), you could run
update-rc.d -f exim remove
to stop exim from running without changing any of its settings.

If you decide to uninstall exim, see Dale's email.

I you decide to reset exim to its original init params, run
update-rc.d exim4 start 20 1 2 3 4 . stop 20 0 1 6 . (<-- note the period)


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Lightweight alternative MTA? [was: Re: Starting MTA:]

[Andrei Popescu]

On Thu,17.Sep.09, 08:14:30, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
 
> Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and 
> various packages install cron jobs implicitly.
> 
> However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is 
> lighter-weight than exim4?

I'm interested as well.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: FW: Starting MTA:

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

(TOFU corrected; please trim your replies and use interleaved posting style 
for this list.)

In <9519478a2c4b49998620b5579bc2d...@ionicoffice.ionic.co.uk>, Chris Harries 
wrote:
>-Original Message-
>From: Jochen Schulz [mailto:m...@well-adjusted.de]
>Sent: 17 September 2009 12:30
>
>>Michal:
>>> MTA is mail transfer agent, exim is one of those, like sendmail,
>>> postfix et al, and you can remove this. Check the guide under
>>> install/remove some software
>>>
>>> update-rc.d -f exim remove
>>
>>This is bad advice for various reasons.
>>
>>- It doesn't solve the problem, it's just a workaround.
>>- It doesn't "remove software", it just prevents Exim's init script to
>>  be executed during boot.
>>- It only works until Exim gets upgraded for some reason.
>
>I was pointing in the right direction, rather then holding a hand

No, you weren't.  You were pointing in the wrong direction.

If you had stopped before giving the erroneous "update-rc.d -f exim remove" 
command, that would have been showing the way without hand-holding.  However, 
that command is bad for the reasons Jochen mentioned (among others).
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Re: Starting MTA:

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

In <20090917111213.gl...@wasteland.homelinux.net>, Jochen Schulz wrote:
>Dale:
>> 2009/9/17 K. Jantzen :
>>> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
>>>
>>> Starting MTA:
>>>
>>> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes
>>> quite some time.
>>>
>>> What does that mean?
>>> Do I have to have that?
>>
>> If you just got a desktop or laptop setup you don't really need a mail
>> server running. So removal is very simple all you have to do is:
>>
>> apt-get remove --purge at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-base exim4-config
>> exim4-daemon-light
>
>I don't recommend this solution since a lot of software (explicitly or
>implicitly) depends on your system's ability to send mail.

Agreed.  Cron and anacron both need a mailer to inform you of errors and 
various packages install cron jobs implicitly.

However, isn't there a local-only mailer that respects /etc/aliases and is 
lighter-weight than exim4?
-- 
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Re: Starting MTA:

[Preston Boyington]

Dale wrote:
> 2009/9/17 K. Jantzen :
>> Hello
>>
>> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
>>
>> Starting MTA:
>>
>> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes
>> quite some time.
>>
>> What does that mean?
>> Do I have to have that?
>> If not, how can I get rid of it.
>> Thanks.
> 
> 
> If you just got a desktop or laptop setup you don't really need a mail
> server running. So removal is very simple all you have to do is:
> 
> apt-get remove --purge at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-base exim4-config
> exim4-daemon-light
> 

alternatively you could just install 'nullmailer'.

sudo aptitude install nullmailer

it will remove Exim4 and take care of the stuff easily.

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FW: Starting MTA:

[Chris Harries]

I was pointing in the right direction, rather then holding a hand

-Original Message-
From: Jochen Schulz [mailto:m...@well-adjusted.de] 
Sent: 17 September 2009 12:30
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Starting MTA:

Michal:
> 
> MTA is mail transfer agent, exim is one of those, like sendmail,
> postfix et al, and you can remove this. Check the guide under
> install/remove some software
> 
> update-rc.d -f exim remove

This is bad advice for various reasons.

- It doesn't solve the problem, it's just a workaround.
- It doesn't "remove software", it just prevents Exim's init script to
  be executed during boot.
- It only works until Exim gets upgraded for some reason.

J.
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Re: Starting MTA:

[Jochen Schulz]

Michal:
> 
> MTA is mail transfer agent, exim is one of those, like sendmail,
> postfix et al, and you can remove this. Check the guide under
> install/remove some software
> 
> update-rc.d -f exim remove

This is bad advice for various reasons.

- It doesn't solve the problem, it's just a workaround.
- It doesn't "remove software", it just prevents Exim's init script to
  be executed during boot.
- It only works until Exim gets upgraded for some reason.

J.
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Re: Starting MTA:

[Jochen Schulz]

Dale:
> 2009/9/17 K. Jantzen :
>> 
>> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
>> 
>> Starting MTA:
>> 
>> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes
>> quite some time.
>> 
>> What does that mean?
>> Do I have to have that?

Exim4 is Debian's default mail transport agent ("mail server software").
You don't strictly need to run Exim4, but you most probably need /some/
form of MTA in order to satisfy package dependencies.

The problem you are experiencing probably occurs because at the time
Exim4 starts, you don't have a network connection. Exim4 then tries to
do some DNS lookups and waits for an answer (probably for 30 or 60
seconds).

>> If not, how can I get rid of it.

You can either solve Exim's problem or install some other MTA. Other
MTAs include nullmailer, ssmtp and a bunch of others. I cannot comment
on either of them.

But all you probably need to do is to run 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4' and
answer the questions to the best of your knowledge. There should be a
questions about whether Exim should "minimize DNS queries". That's
exactly what you need.

> If you just got a desktop or laptop setup you don't really need a mail
> server running. So removal is very simple all you have to do is:
> 
> apt-get remove --purge at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-base exim4-config
> exim4-daemon-light

I don't recommend this solution since a lot of software (explicitly or
implicitly) depends on your system's ability to send mail.

J.
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Re: Starting MTA:

[Florian Kulzer]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:28:35 +0200, K. Jantzen wrote:
> Hello
> 
> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
> 
> Starting MTA:
> 
> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting
> takes quite some time.

Check exim's configuration for DNS queries; you can do that with this
command:

awk '/exim4.*dns/,/^$/' /var/cache/debconf/config.dat

If you see "Value: false" in the output, like this:

Name: exim4/dc_minimaldns
Template: exim4/dc_minimaldns
Value: false
Owners: exim4-config
Flags: seen

then you can try to run (as root):

dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config

and answer "Yes" to the question "Keep number of DNS-queries minimal
(Dial-on-Demand)?" That normally helps to reduce the start-up time of
the exim daemon.

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RE: Starting MTA:

[Michal]

-Original Message-
From: K. Jantzen [mailto:k.d.jant...@t-online.de] 
Sent: 17 September 2009 11:29
To: DebianUser
Subject: Starting MTA:

Hello

in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying

Starting MTA:

It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes 
quite some time.

What does that mean?
Do I have to have that?
If not, how can I get rid of it. 

Thanks.
-- 

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This might help a bit http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_debian_sarge_p3

MTA is mail transfer agent, exim is one of those, like sendmail, postfix et al, 
and you can remove this. Check the guide under install/remove some software

update-rc.d -f exim remove


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Re: Starting MTA:

[Dale]

2009/9/17 K. Jantzen :
> Hello
>
> in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying
>
> Starting MTA:
>
> It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes
> quite some time.
>
> What does that mean?
> Do I have to have that?
> If not, how can I get rid of it.
> Thanks.
> --
>
> kdjantzen
>
>
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>
>
Hi,

If you just got a desktop or laptop setup you don't really need a mail
server running. So removal is very simple all you have to do is:

apt-get remove --purge at bsd-mailx exim4 exim4-base exim4-config
exim4-daemon-light

Regards
Dale
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Starting MTA:

[K. Jantzen]

Hello

in the booting sequence of Debian lenny I see a line  saying

Starting MTA:

It  "takes ages" until  Debian comes up with "exim4". Thus booting takes 
quite some time.


What does that mean?
Do I have to have that?
If not, how can I get rid of it. 


Thanks.
--

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Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Chris]

On Thursday 06 September 2007 23:28, Jeff D wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Chris wrote:
> > On Thursday 06 September 2007 21:35, Celejar wrote:
> >> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:13:02 +0200
> >>
> >> Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4
> >>> unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a
> >>> while to start on boot.
> >>>
> >>> I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or
> >>> desktop system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is
> >>> this really the case?
> >>
> >> It shouldn't be uninstalled since many daemons and system management
> >> tasks report via email, and they expect to find an MTA to send the mail
> >> with.
> >>
> >> If your system isn't connected to the internet on boot, have you
> >>
> >> configured minimal-dns? From 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config':
> >>> In normal mode of operation Exim does DNS lookups at startup, and when
> >>> │ │ receiving or delivering messages. This is for logging purposes
> >>> and │ │ allows keeping down the number of hard-coded values in the
> >>> │ │ configuration.
> >>>  │ │
> >>> │ │ If this system does not have a DNS full service
> >>> resolver available at│ │ all times (for example if its Internet
> >>> access is a dial-up line using│ │ dial-on-demand), this might
> >>> have unwanted consequences. For example, │ │ starting up Exim
> >>> or running the queue (even with no messages waiting)│ │ might
> >>> trigger a costly dial-up-event.│
> >>> │
> >>>  │ │ This
> >>> option should be selected if this system is using Dial-on-Demand.   │
> >>> │ If it has always-on Internet access, this option should be
> >>> disabled.>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any suggestions,
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>
> >> Celejar
> >> --
> >
> > Thanks, I tried that and it didn't help, but I'm not sure I know which of
> > the five types of setup choices really applies to me, and I'll have to
> > read up some more on that.
> >
> > I have to say that  I'm actually only interested in using Debian as a
> > desktop system, and sort of feel like it is making me install a mail
> > server.  I wouldn't care if choosing "no configuration at this time"
> > didn't cause problems, but in my case it seems to be timing out on boot.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > C
>
> Theres always the option of disabling it all together.
>
> update-rc.d -f exim4 remove
>
> But, as others have said, its good to have a MTA running for notifications
> like cron, logcheck and others to go out. I would possibley install
> exim4-daemon-light, set delivery to local only, check to make sure your
> hostname is in /etc/hosts and set hosts in /etc/nsswitch.conf to: hosts:
> files dns
>

I have 

ii  exim44.67-8   
meta-package to ease Exim MTA (v4) installat
ii  exim4-base   4.67-8   support 
files for all Exim MTA (v4) packages
ii  exim4-config 4.67-8   
configuration for the Exim MTA (v4)
ii  exim4-daemon-light   4.67-8   
lightweight Exim MTA (v4) daemon

so I guess "light" got installed automatically at some point, because I didn't 
do it myself.

I'll try what you suggest.

Thanks,

Chris
-- 
C. Hurschler

Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Jeff D]

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Chris wrote:


On Thursday 06 September 2007 21:35, Celejar wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:13:02 +0200

Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,

I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4
unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while
to start on boot.

I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop
system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really
the case?


It shouldn't be uninstalled since many daemons and system management
tasks report via email, and they expect to find an MTA to send the mail
with.

If your system isn't connected to the internet on boot, have you

configured minimal-dns? From 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config':

In normal mode of operation Exim does DNS lookups at startup, and when
??? ??? receiving or delivering messages. This is for logging purposes and
   ??? ??? allows keeping down the number of hard-coded values in the
  ??? ??? configuration.
 ??? ???
??? ??? If this system does not have a DNS full service resolver
available at??? ??? all times (for example if its Internet access is a
dial-up line using??? ??? dial-on-demand), this might have unwanted
consequences. For example, ??? ??? starting up Exim or running the queue
(even with no messages waiting)??? ??? might trigger a costly
dial-up-event.??? ???
 ??? ??? This option
should be selected if this system is using Dial-on-Demand.   ??? ??? If it
has always-on Internet access, this option should be disabled.>

Thanks for any suggestions,

Chris


Celejar
--


Thanks, I tried that and it didn't help, but I'm not sure I know which of the
five types of setup choices really applies to me, and I'll have to read up
some more on that.

I have to say that  I'm actually only interested in using Debian as a desktop
system, and sort of feel like it is making me install a mail server.  I
wouldn't care if choosing "no configuration at this time" didn't cause
problems, but in my case it seems to be timing out on boot.

Thanks,

C



Theres always the option of disabling it all together.

update-rc.d -f exim4 remove

But, as others have said, its good to have a MTA running for notifications 
like cron, logcheck and others to go out. I would possibley install 
exim4-daemon-light, set delivery to local only, check to make sure your 
hostname is in /etc/hosts and set hosts in /etc/nsswitch.conf to: hosts: 
files dns



-+-
8 out of 10 Owners who Expressed a Preference said Their Cats Preferred Techno.

Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Guillermo Garron]

On 9/6/07, Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4
> unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while to
> start on boot.
>
> I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop
> system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really the
> case?
Hi, I have the same problem in my Desktop with Debian but only when it
is not connected to Internet while booting up, try to measure the
MTA's starting time when connected and when not connected to the
Internet to see if that is the difference, I don't know if it can or
can not be un-installed, sorry

Guillermo Garron
http://www.go2linux.org
>
> Thanks for any suggestions,
>
> Chris
> --
> C. Hurschler
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


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Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Chris]

On Thursday 06 September 2007 21:35, Celejar wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:13:02 +0200
>
> Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4
> > unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while
> > to start on boot.
> >
> > I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop
> > system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really
> > the case?
>
> It shouldn't be uninstalled since many daemons and system management
> tasks report via email, and they expect to find an MTA to send the mail
> with.
>
> If your system isn't connected to the internet on boot, have you
>
> configured minimal-dns? From 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config':
> > In normal mode of operation Exim does DNS lookups at startup, and when  
> > │ │ receiving or delivering messages. This is for logging purposes and   
> >│ │ allows keeping down the number of hard-coded values in the
> >   │ │ configuration. 
> >  │ │ 
> > │ │ If this system does not have a DNS full service resolver
> > available at│ │ all times (for example if its Internet access is a
> > dial-up line using│ │ dial-on-demand), this might have unwanted
> > consequences. For example, │ │ starting up Exim or running the queue
> > (even with no messages waiting)│ │ might trigger a costly
> > dial-up-event.│ │
> >  │ │ This option
> > should be selected if this system is using Dial-on-Demand.   │ │ If it
> > has always-on Internet access, this option should be disabled.>
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions,
> >
> > Chris
>
> Celejar
> --

Thanks, I tried that and it didn't help, but I'm not sure I know which of the 
five types of setup choices really applies to me, and I'll have to read up 
some more on that.

I have to say that  I'm actually only interested in using Debian as a desktop 
system, and sort of feel like it is making me install a mail server.  I 
wouldn't care if choosing "no configuration at this time" didn't cause 
problems, but in my case it seems to be timing out on boot.

Thanks,

C

-- 
C. Hurschler

Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Michael Dominok]

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:13:02 +0200
Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4 
> unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while to 
> start on boot.

Googling for (parts of your) subject "Starting MTA takes long" would have taken 
you directly to
http://datenroulette.de/blog/index.php?blog=4&title=starting_mta_takes_a_long_time&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
which is only one of multriplillions of hi(n)ts you would have gotten if you 
had tried figuring it out yourself in the first place.

> I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop 
> system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really the 
> case?

Yep. There're background jobs mailing "you" if something's going wrong or not. 
Without MTA you won't get this messages.


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Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Chris]

On Thursday 06 September 2007 21:27, Michael Dominok wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:13:02 +0200
>
> Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4
> > unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while
> > to start on boot.
>
> Googling for (parts of your) subject "Starting MTA takes long" would have
> taken you directly to
> http://datenroulette.de/blog/index.php?blog=4&title=starting_mta_takes_a_lo
>ng_time&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 which is only one of multriplillions of hi(n)ts
> you would have gotten if you had tried figuring it out yourself in the
> first place.
>
> > I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop
> > system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really
> > the case?
>
> Yep. There're background jobs mailing "you" if something's going wrong or
> not. Without MTA you won't get this messages.

What kind of messages, more information than in the log files?  It's a desktop 
system, not some critical server.

Btw. you have my permission to ignore my future idiotic posts.

C

-- 
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Re: Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Celejar]

On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:13:02 +0200
Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4 
> unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while to 
> start on boot.
> 
> I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop 
> system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really the 
> case?

It shouldn't be uninstalled since many daemons and system management
tasks report via email, and they expect to find an MTA to send the mail
with.

If your system isn't connected to the internet on boot, have you
configured minimal-dns? From 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config':

> In normal mode of operation Exim does DNS lookups at startup, and when   │  
>   │ receiving or delivering messages. This is for logging purposes and   
> │  
>   │ allows keeping down the number of hard-coded values in the   
> │  
>   │ configuration.   
> │  
>   │  
> │  
>   │ If this system does not have a DNS full service resolver available at
> │  
>   │ all times (for example if its Internet access is a dial-up line using
> │  
>   │ dial-on-demand), this might have unwanted consequences. For example, 
> │  
>   │ starting up Exim or running the queue (even with no messages waiting)
> │  
>   │ might trigger a costly dial-up-event.
> │  
>   │  
> │  
>   │ This option should be selected if this system is using Dial-on-Demand.   
> │  
>   │ If it has always-on Internet access, this option should be disabled.> 

> Thanks for any suggestions,
> 
> Chris

Celejar
--
mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email
ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator


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Starting MTA: why does it take so long?

[Chris]

Hi,

I have several desktop systems, and regadless of whether I leave exim4 
unconfigured, or setup for local system use only, it takes quite a while to 
start on boot.

I don't really know what the MTA is supposed to do on a laptop or desktop 
system, but I've read that it shouldn't be uninstallted.  Is this really the 
case?

Thanks for any suggestions,

Chris
-- 
C. Hurschler


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Re: why "Starting MTA: exim4" take so much time?

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
* Serena Cantor [Fri, Oct 13 2006, 07:02:26PM]:
> During sarge installation, I select 3rd option (local delivery). Each time it 
> boots, starting MTA
> take too much time, I have to remove it from /etc/rc2.d.

You have a broken (but configured) internet connection? Your DNS makes
problems?

Run "dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config -p low" and say yes in the "Minimize
DNS requests" question.

Eduard.
-- 
Vertrauen Sie denen, die nach der Wahrheit suchen, und mißtrauen Sie
denen, die sie gefunden haben.
-- André Gide


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Re: why "Starting MTA: exim4" take so much time?

[John O'Hagan]

On Saturday 14 October 2006 12:02, Serena Cantor wrote:
> During sarge installation, I select 3rd option (local delivery). Each time
> it boots, starting MTA take too much time, I have to remove it from
> /etc/rc2.d.
>
> Is there any problem with that?


AFAIK you should have some kind of MTA on your system even if you don't use it 
yourself, as some programs use it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I seem to remember having a similar slow-startup issue which was fixed by 
running dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config (as root), and answering "No" to the 
final rather confusing question about Dial-on-demand. This stops exim4 from 
doing DNS lookups at boot.

Might help...

John


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why "Starting MTA: exim4" take so much time?

[Serena Cantor]

During sarge installation, I select 3rd option (local delivery). Each time it 
boots, starting MTA
take too much time, I have to remove it from /etc/rc2.d.

Is there any problem with that?


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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Re: slow starting MTA

[Howard Eisenberger]

On 2005-11-23, roberto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> i have kernel 2.6.8-2-386 currently installed and when i boot not
> being connected to the network the booting process stops for at least
> 3 or 4 minutes showing:
> .....
> Starting MTA:
> .
>
> and then it goes on correctly, but it is very tedious to wait so much,
> how can i skip this test if the pc is not connected?

I had the same problem a while ago. A simple solution I found on
this list was to use a hostname such as box.localdomain, not just 
box .

I guess there is a reason why the installer asks for a domain
name, but I think you can just edit /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts.
  
Regards,

Howard E.
  


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Re: slow starting MTA

[roberto]

On 11/23/05, John Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 November 2005 01:12 am, roberto wrote:
> > hello
> > i have kernel 2.6.8-2-386 currently installed and when i boot not
> > being connected to the network the booting process stops for at least
> > 3 or 4 minutes showing:
> > .
> > Starting MTA:
> > .
> Install ifplugd, i.e. aptitude install ifplugd.
>
i installed ifplugd but the problem is still there;
i attach here some useful parts of /var/log/messages:
kernel: tg3: eth0: Link is up at 100 Mbps, full duplex.

Nov 24 16:50:15 -- kernel: tg3: eth0: Flow control is on for TX and on for RX.
Nov 24 16:50:20 -- ifplugd.hotplug[3111]: Invoking ifplugd for sit0
Nov 24 16:50:20 -- kernel: NET: Registered protocol family 10
Nov 24 16:50:20 -- kernel: Disabled Privacy Extensions on device c02cc960(lo)
Nov 24 16:50:20 -- kernel: IPv6 over IPv4 tunneling driver
Nov 24 16:50:20 -- kernel: Disabled Privacy Extensions on device f7807000(sit0)
Nov 24 16:50:21 -- kernel: SCSI subsystem initialized
Nov 24 16:50:22 -- lpd[3421]: restarted
Nov 24 16:50:22 -- kernel: lp0: using parport0 (polling).


if you think of any help

thanks

--
roberto
GNU/Linux, debian sarge
2.6.8-2-386

Re: slow starting MTA

[John Schmidt]

On Wednesday 23 November 2005 01:12 am, roberto wrote:
> hello
> i have kernel 2.6.8-2-386 currently installed and when i boot not
> being connected to the network the booting process stops for at least
> 3 or 4 minutes showing:
> .....
> Starting MTA:
> .
>
> and then it goes on correctly, but it is very tedious to wait so much,
> how can i skip this test if the pc is not connected?
>
> thank you
> --
> roberto
> GNU/Linux, debian sarge
> kernel 2.6.8-2-386

Install ifplugd, i.e. aptitude install ifplugd.

John


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Re: slow starting MTA

[marzubus]

The problem is that the MTA is trying to do reverse lookups on you
hostname, configure local dns on the box, or put a /etc/hosts entry
with your ip and full dns hostname in it.


Kegan Holtzhausen


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Re: slow starting MTA

[Eriberto]

A solution:

#apt-get install sendmail

Regards,

Eriberto

roberto escreveu:

.
Starting MTA:
.



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slow starting MTA

[roberto]

hello
i have kernel 2.6.8-2-386 currently installed and when i boot not
being connected to the network the booting process stops for at least
3 or 4 minutes showing:
.
Starting MTA:
.

and then it goes on correctly, but it is very tedious to wait so much,
how can i skip this test if the pc is not connected?

thank you
--
roberto
GNU/Linux, debian sarge
kernel 2.6.8-2-386

Re: Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[Saverio Trioni]

Just fill up the /etc/hostname file with the full name of the computer.

For instance, normally the file /etc/hostname contains just  
"mycomputer", and the network name is appended by looking in the  
nameserver or the IP resolver. If the network is down, this cannot be  
done.


If you put in /etc/hostname "mycomputer.example.com" (get the exact  
name when you are attached to the network, don't use example.com)  
then exim does not hang!


Saverio


El 20/06/2005, a las 20:28, Elmer E. Dow escribió:


Greetings:

I was traveling on business and attempted to connect to the  
Internet (mail and
browse) via a network at the office where I was working. Now that  
I'm home I
notice that when booting the system hangs for approximately 60  
seconds at

"Starting: MTA."

I'm pretty green with Linux, but I'm guessing that the mail  
transfer agent is
looking for a mail source (network) that is no longer connected. Is  
that

correct? Whatever the problem, what do I do to fix the situation?

My system is running Debian Sarge on an IBM R40 laptop with a Linksys
EtherFast 10/100 + 56k modem PC card.

- Elmer E. Dow


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Re: Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[David R. Litwin]

Where is this GUI? I have the same problem (litterally: No network, eth0, hangs at start-up).

Thanks.

Re: Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[Elmer E. Dow]

Indeed it was looking for a network.

Found the solution. I went to the network settings GUI and unchecked "activate 
when the computer starts" in the properties menu for the ethernet LAN card 
(eth0). I don't have a network at home, but had used a network while at an 
out-of-town office.

Now it doesn't hang for a minute while searching for the network.

Thanks for your suggestions.

-Elmer E. Dow


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Re: Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[fabrizio mancini]

On 6/20/05, David Baron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 20 June 2005 22:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >  Now that I'm home I
> > notice that when booting the system hangs for approximately 60 seconds at
> > "Starting: MTA."
> >
> > I'm pretty green with Linux, but I'm guessing that the mail transfer agent
> > is looking for a mail source (network) that is no longer connected. Is that
> > correct? Whatever the problem, what do I do to fix the situation?
> 
> Mine also does this. I am not sure for what it is waiting/polling/testing but
> after that minute or so, the thing plays 100%
i think it's waiting for the network connection. the interface comes
up indifferently if u'r wired to the network or not. only if u use a
script u can avoid the network interface to come up.
so when he find up the network interface the mta try to find a usable
dns, but unsuccesfully.
i'm using postfix but it's the same story.
i'm too lazy to try now the script for check network availability, but
has been discussed on this list.
bye 
fabrizio

Re: Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[David Baron]

On Monday 20 June 2005 22:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
>  Now that I'm home I
> notice that when booting the system hangs for approximately 60 seconds at
> "Starting: MTA."
>
> I'm pretty green with Linux, but I'm guessing that the mail transfer agent
> is looking for a mail source (network) that is no longer connected. Is that
> correct? Whatever the problem, what do I do to fix the situation?

Mine also does this. I am not sure for what it is waiting/polling/testing but 
after that minute or so, the thing plays 100%

What MTA are you using? I am using Exim4 with the "heavy" daemon. Fetchmail 
retrieves pop mail from provider and the Exim "smarthosts" sending mail 
through the provider's host. Procmail is being used to spam and virus check. 
In the end, KDE's KMail gets the mail from user mail folders and sends 
messages written to localhost where Exim does the rest.

You might get along with something much simpler and quicker. Kmail can do ALL 
of this (but beware of its spam and virus checking which bog down the main 
program thread rather than run in the background). Other mailers can do it 
all as well if you do not like Kmail.


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Re: Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[Richard A Nelson]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Elmer E. Dow wrote:


I was traveling on business and attempted to connect to the Internet (mail and
browse) via a network at the office where I was working. Now that I'm home I
notice that when booting the system hangs for approximately 60 seconds at
"Starting: MTA."


MTAs like to have a working DNS, it sounds like your hostname is not
resolvable during MTA startup.

You'll have similiar issues with apache, squid, etc.

You can either:
1) install a caching DNS (bind9, etc)
2) make sure /etc/hosts has an entry for your box

--
Rick Nelson
Microsoft is a cross between the Borg and the Ferengi.  Unfortunately,
they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their
programming.
-- Simon Slavin


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Boot hang at "Starting: MTA"

[Elmer E. Dow]

Greetings:

I was traveling on business and attempted to connect to the Internet (mail and 
browse) via a network at the office where I was working. Now that I'm home I 
notice that when booting the system hangs for approximately 60 seconds at 
"Starting: MTA."

I'm pretty green with Linux, but I'm guessing that the mail transfer agent is 
looking for a mail source (network) that is no longer connected. Is that 
correct? Whatever the problem, what do I do to fix the situation?

My system is running Debian Sarge on an IBM R40 laptop with a Linksys 
EtherFast 10/100 + 56k modem PC card.

- Elmer E. Dow


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