Re: Recommended tape backup software
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 02:49:47PM -0500, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > I (for one) am very interested to hear what about > people experiences, recommendations (or lack thereof) concerning tape > backup software. As you may have guessed from my earlier post to the thread, I swear by amanda. (And, since then, I've doublechecked: You are definitely able to run amanda with no holding disk, but it takes a lot longer because you can only dump one fs to tape at a time vs. being able to dump multiple fses to disk in parallel.) -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
hi y jams... tape backup sw... "find | gre | tar " works best for me... ( going to tape or disks ) - tons of free backup scripts and few more commercial apps which you use depends n your budget and amount of data and backup media you use and comfoprt level of find|tar and/or cpio, dump, etc - most of what needs to be done for backups can be done in 1 lines or so ( 3-4 crontab entries ... ) # daily incremental of last 8 days find /$DIRS -mtime -8 | tar cvf /dev/tape -T- # weekly incremental of last 32 days find /$DIRS -mtime -32 | tar cvf /dev/tape -T- # montly incremental of last 90 days.. find /$DIRS -mtime -90 | tar cvf /dev/tape -T- # do a full backup however often ya like.. tar cvf /dev/tape /$DIRS -- done -- - make n-copies of it if ya paranoid - - encrypt it if ya even mroe paranoid - - ... on and on .. c ya alvin On Tue, 21 May 2002, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > On 21 May 2002 14:31:02 -0500 > "Ron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think we're well past the point where we must agree to > > disagree about the best way to back up enterprise databases. > > Agreed. Now, would it be possible to get back to the original topic "tape > backup software". I (for one) am very interested to hear what about > people experiences, recommendations (or lack thereof) concerning tape > backup software. I don't care much for a philisophical debate over > whether to use tapes or hard drives. I've already made the decision to > use tapes and am relatively open to hear what works and what doesn't for > others out there. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 02:49:47PM -0500, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > On 21 May 2002 14:31:02 -0500 > "Ron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think we're well past the point where we must agree to > > disagree about the best way to back up enterprise databases. > Agreed. Now, would it be possible to get back to the original topic "tape > backup software". I (for one) am very interested to hear what about > people experiences, recommendations (or lack thereof) concerning tape > backup software. I don't care much for a philisophical debate over > whether to use tapes or hard drives. I've already made the decision to > use tapes and am relatively open to hear what works and what doesn't for > others out there. We use Net Backup, it's not free, it's definately not cheap. It is incredibly powerful, which means there are a *lot* of options. I don't think they have a linux server. They might. We run it off an old Sun U5. We've got 2 spectradrive tape robots hooked up to it, with 4 tape drives each, and 40 tapes in each library. -- My last cigarette was roughly 29 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk - raided
On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 10:04:49PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote: > hi ya petro Morning. > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Petro wrote: > > On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 12:10:34AM -0700, Peter Whysall wrote: > > > On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets > > > That's innovative, but impractical. > > No, it's a great idea, but you can do the same thing even more > > safely with tapes. > good point.. give um tapes most people dont have an expensive > drive sitting at home to go poking around on it > while everybody can poke around on an ide disk Wait a minute, you're not encrypting them? > > > A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? > > 10 120 gig IDE drives. > > Each with lots of electronics to fail. > yuppers... and with a tape drive.. you only fix one ?? When the electronics on a tape drive fail, you can use almost any other tape drive of the same media type to read the tape. In an emergency, you drive down to and i've never dropped at tape drive... nor disks... > - tapes get dropped because a klutz like me is swapping > out a tape w/ feeble fingers... As opposed to swaping out a drive with feeble fingers? > - i get itchy when i see people dropping stuff... Disasters happen. That's what backups are for after all. > - even worst when i see them with rubber shoes touching > memory/disks w/o antistatic Tapes aren't as delicate. > ( its hilarious when they say they got shocked... > ( and wonder why the machine stopped working... In almost 20 years of messing with computers in various capacities, including living and working in high-static environments, the only time static electricity has cause a computer I was working on to die was a lightining strike. -- My last cigarette was roughly 29 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
On 21 May 2002 14:31:02 -0500 "Ron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think we're well past the point where we must agree to > disagree about the best way to back up enterprise databases. Agreed. Now, would it be possible to get back to the original topic "tape backup software". I (for one) am very interested to hear what about people experiences, recommendations (or lack thereof) concerning tape backup software. I don't care much for a philisophical debate over whether to use tapes or hard drives. I've already made the decision to use tapes and am relatively open to hear what works and what doesn't for others out there. -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk - raided
On Tue, 2002-05-21 at 03:05, Alvin Oga wrote: > > hi ya ron > > > And I'll be bringing home my greater-than-terabyte-sized > > enterprise database (to poke around with it..) some time in > > the near future??? Not likely. > > it fits in a itty bitty "2u" cases... > - 2 or more of um for redundancy/reliability > > > Besides, I don't have a $3M Alpha w/ VMS & Rdb licenses > > in the back bedroom, either... > > not yet :-) Except that our data & applications are _on_ that $3M Alpha w/ VMS & Rdb licenses. > but everybody has more than a compute power equivalent of an > old cray-1 in their homes now... :-) Sure, my 1GHz Athlon-C does integer arithmetic faster than the 750MHz Alphas, but those 64-bit 66MHz PCI UW-SCSI cards pump the data through a lot faster than ATA/100 chipsets. (The 16GB cache RAM on the SAN also helps out...) I think we're well past the point where we must agree to disagree about the best way to back up enterprise databases. -- +-+ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81 | | | | "I have created a government of whirled peas..."| | Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, 12-May-2002, | ! CNN, Larry King Live | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk - raided
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 01:05:46AM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote: > i wouldn't give "backups" to people > ( when the backups contain user passwds and > ( financial data or other sensitive stuff... Encrypt the backup, so you don't have to worry about it as much. Yeah, some folks have the passphrase, but if you accidentally leave it on the subway you don't have to worry about some random stranger making any sense of it. --Pete -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk - raided
hi ya ron > And I'll be bringing home my greater-than-terabyte-sized > enterprise database (to poke around with it..) some time in > the near future??? Not likely. it fits in a itty bitty "2u" cases... - 2 or more of um for redundancy/reliability > Besides, I don't have a $3M Alpha w/ VMS & Rdb licenses > in the back bedroom, either... not yet :-) but everybody has more than a compute power equivalent of an old cray-1 in their homes now... :-) > > > > A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? > > > > > > 10 120 gig IDE drives. > > > > > > Each with lots of electronics to fail. > > > > yuppers... and with a tape drive.. you only fix one ?? > > The likelihood that 1 of 10 mechanical devices will break > in a given timespan is far more likely than the likelyhood > of just one device breaking. yup... but when one tape drive dies.. everything waits... till one goes off and gets a new $7K tape drive... ( most people have 2 or 3 identical drives ?? i hope... - when it died at the wrong time is when we switched over the the disks-based backups .. since we got it back online within hours... the tape drive took months when one disk dies... throw it away and put in a new one... > > and i've never dropped at tape drive... nor disks... > > - tapes get dropped because a klutz like me is swapping > > out a tape w/ feeble fingers... > > To quote you: > > > > On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > > > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > > > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > > > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets > > By definition, you must pull those spindles in order to give > them to the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar. So, not only might _you_ > drop the disks, but the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar may also drop them. i wouldn't give "backups" to people ( when the backups contain user passwds and ( financial data or other sensitive stuff... - raid5 provides a built feature that no one user can have all the data if one backups only one disk-dump per tape or disk... - was meant for 2 tapes to offsite san francisco office and 2 tapes to offsite boston office and 1 tape to offsite UK office c ya alvin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk - raided
On Tue, 2002-05-21 at 00:04, Alvin Oga wrote: > > > hi ya petro > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Petro wrote: > > > On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 12:10:34AM -0700, Peter Whysall wrote: > > > On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets > > > > > That's innovative, but impractical. > > > > No, it's a great idea, but you can do the same thing even more > > safely with tapes. > > good point.. give um tapes most people dont have an expensive > drive sitting at home to go poking around on it > while everybody can poke around on an ide disk And I'll be bringing home my greater-than-terabyte-sized enterprise database (to poke around with it..) some time in the near future??? Not likely. Besides, I don't have a $3M Alpha w/ VMS & Rdb licenses in the back bedroom, either... > > > A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? > > > > 10 120 gig IDE drives. > > > > Each with lots of electronics to fail. > > yuppers... and with a tape drive.. you only fix one ?? The likelihood that 1 of 10 mechanical devices will break in a given timespan is far more likely than the likelyhood of just one device breaking. > and i've never dropped at tape drive... nor disks... > - tapes get dropped because a klutz like me is swapping > out a tape w/ feeble fingers... To quote you: > > > On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets By definition, you must pull those spindles in order to give them to the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar. So, not only might _you_ drop the disks, but the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar may also drop them. -- +-+ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81 | | | | "I have created a government of whirled peas..."| | Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, 12-May-2002, | ! CNN, Larry King Live | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk - raided
hi ya petro On Mon, 20 May 2002, Petro wrote: > On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 12:10:34AM -0700, Peter Whysall wrote: > > On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets > > > That's innovative, but impractical. > > No, it's a great idea, but you can do the same thing even more > safely with tapes. good point.. give um tapes most people dont have an expensive drive sitting at home to go poking around on it while everybody can poke around on an ide disk > > A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? > > 10 120 gig IDE drives. > > Each with lots of electronics to fail. yuppers... and with a tape drive.. you only fix one ?? c ya alvn and i've never dropped at tape drive... nor disks... - tapes get dropped because a klutz like me is swapping out a tape w/ feeble fingers... - i get itchy when i see people dropping stuff... - even worst when i see them with rubber shoes touching memory/disks w/o antistatic - keep them away from me please... ehehe... ( its hilarious when they say they got shocked... ( and wonder why the machine stopped working... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - disk failures
On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 02:25:59AM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote: > hi ya > a nice picture of what causes a system to fail... disks or ??? > http://www.Linux-1U.net/Disks/Disk_Failure.gif > ( its from an IDC survey ) > ( the picture stolen/copied from > http://safersite.net/NSS15AFaultTolerantUsersStoragePowerandNetworks.htm > - but it seems they moved that url... That is completely outside my experience. I've had users nuke the operating system, but the computer didn't fail, the OS did. A fresh install and everything but the users data was peachy. Those 15 75Gig IBM drives OTOH... -- My last cigarette was roughly 28 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 12:10:34AM -0700, Peter Whysall wrote: > On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets > That's innovative, but impractical. No, it's a great idea, but you can do the same thing even more safely with tapes. > A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? 10 120 gig IDE drives. Each with lots of electronics to fail. -- My last cigarette was roughly 28 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 05:24:55PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote: > 160GB ide disks is $150-$200 range... cheap... > - 1Terabyte of backup in one 1u chassis.. no problem... > and i do compressed backups of up to 3 or 6 months... dpeending > on diskspace they willing ot buy and user data Pull 10 160GB disks out of your array to swap them for another set (offline DR archive). Drop one disk on a concrete floor. Pull 20 tapes out of the drive. Drop one tape on the floor. Which has a better chance of surviving? This list has gone round and round on this at least twice in the last 4 months. When you're backing up terabytes, archiving for legal reasons, etc. modern tapes are more than adequite, and less expensive (in real terms) than drives. -- My last cigarette was roughly 28 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 03:52:54PM -0500, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > Doesn't Amanda require a "backup" partition? Amanda likes to have holding disks to work from, but I don't think you're absolutely required to have one. > Doesn't the partition also > need to be the size of your largest backup target? Definitely not. Been there, done that - I inherited an amanda server that was backing up ~15G/day with a 7G holding disk and the largest backup target was 9G. (I added a 30G drive just for holding space shortly after discovering this...) It stops bothering the backup clients a lot quicker if the entire run fits into the holding disk (since write-to-disk is faster than write-to-tape), but it's also capable of backing up directly to tape. What you're probably thinking of is amanda's inability to allow a single target to span multiple tapes. If a target is larger than your tapes (after compression), amanda isn't currently able to back it up. That's one of the things currently being worked on and I think a patch may already exist, but it's not considered release- quality yet. -- When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists have already won. - reverius Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - disk failures
hi ya a nice picture of what causes a system to fail... disks or ??? http://www.Linux-1U.net/Disks/Disk_Failure.gif ( its from an IDC survey ) ( the picture stolen/copied from http://safersite.net/NSS15AFaultTolerantUsersStoragePowerandNetworks.htm - but it seems they moved that url... c ya alvin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
hi ya peter > > - a tape is 40 - 80GB same as disks ... nowdays disks is > > always slightly higher capacity > > You're behind the curve. AIT3 and SDLT offer capacities of ~200GB per > tape. yuppers gave up when tapes was 80GB and the mammoth tape drives was $7K each... and each tape was $80 - $100 range... - got years of that stuff... at the old place... > > Tape is still cheaper per gigabyte. Can you get a 220GB disk for ~90 > quid? cost of media is one thing... add in the additional costs for: - tape drive - time spent to read the tape - time spent to find a particular file the user lost - - time spent to simulate a crashed disk and replace with a new one and restore - i still put my bet on disks > > You'll look back with regret when your disk-based backup system eats > itself alive. Hard disks fail. Tapes might fail too, but they fail less > often, and have less impact on the overall system when they do. Easier > to replace, easier to obtain. If push comes to shove, I can get tapes > from the local Staples. had more tape failures than disks... - usually because they lost the disk.. and expect me to restore from their tapes which was usually also bad... - at tht point its a real easy sale to convert from high maintenance/daily tapes... to automated disk backups - pull any drive out at anyime to simulate a disk crash and try to restore from tape and also from disk... > > > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets > > That's innovative, but impractical. mkes fure a good research project > > - majority of stufff i do is across the ocean ... > > - > > - can't go around changing tapes... :-) > > - and even if the tapes was in my office... i still wont use it > > - as we all step away on weeekends and holidays and sick etc... > > - > > - i say a tape based backup fails the day somebody forgot > > - to change the tape... you lost yesterdays data > > - > > Depends. If you run two tape drives and have a tape jockey onsite to > swap the tapes, you're OK. had 3 tape drives running tyoo much headaches... i would never ever bet "my backups is working properly" on a "tape jockey" at a colo or other facilities ... too paranoid to take the heat for why backups is not working ... when their disk crashes.. - never had a disk-based backup fail... - so far been lucky ?? - lots of tape-based backups fail for various reason... - usually cause somebody ( not me ) didnt calen the tape or rotate the tapes - i cant use tapes... i am NOT onsite and will NOT gamble that somebody else did their tape rotation job > > - out here... 50-100GB of data to play with per day per user ... > > - most of the generated outputs is not backed up > > since its easily regenerated by the spice programs... > > > > - when doing full chip layouts... we can get into 10's Terabytes > > of data... most of which i claim is worthless > > and constantly changing .. no pointto backup other than for "archive" > > and the lawyers to have a running history... > > A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? same number of tapes or disks - > > Believe me when I say that you're in a minority amongst sysadmins on > this topic. no problem. like being different - better in some things... worst in others... - i like being able to sleep all day too while they are working ( machines should just run flawlessly... -- best to reularly test the backup system... wether tape or disks... and pretend tha the disk really did crash and spend the time/effort and phone/calls ...mad people... to recover from the backups... -- -- in prodcution environment... where it counts... -- c ya alvin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
On Mon, 2002-05-20 at 06:22, Alvin Oga wrote: > > hi ya ron > > On 19 May 2002, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > You and I must think on different scales... > > think its similar scales.. > - different ways to skin the cat... > > - a tape is 40 - 80GB same as disks ... nowdays disks is > always slightly higher capacity You're behind the curve. AIT3 and SDLT offer capacities of ~200GB per tape. > - there was a time when a single tape had more capacity than > a single disk... and better price for disk$$$/MB vs tape$$$/MB > >- in the old days... whan disks were expensive per GByte > and tapes were comparably cheaper tapes would be better Tape is still cheaper per gigabyte. Can you get a 220GB disk for ~90 quid? > > - any argument for number of disks is equally applicable > to number of tapes > - tape library vs raid ... > ( same issue here too ) > > - we had/have a bunch of Exabyte Magnum(?) drives ( $8K each ) > a few years ago ... when 20GB disks was just coming out... > but the tqpes was too slow... even with tar + buffer ... > tape cant keep up for backing up xxxGB of data > - went to disks for backup and never looked back since... You'll look back with regret when your disk-based backup system eats itself alive. Hard disks fail. Tapes might fail too, but they fail less often, and have less impact on the overall system when they do. Easier to replace, easier to obtain. If push comes to shove, I can get tapes from the local Staples. > those tapes was good for 80GB or so... > and we had 40 users at 20GB each... > > - i require 3 independent sources of backups 2 is minimum > > - > - offsite is not important as much as in different buildings > - > - if a build burns down in a fire... that's what monthly > backup is for take the disk and store it some place else ... > > --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk > --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user > --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets That's innovative, but impractical. > - majority of stufff i do is across the ocean ... > - > - can't go around changing tapes... :-) > - and even if the tapes was in my office... i still wont use it > - as we all step away on weeekends and holidays and sick etc... > - > - i say a tape based backup fails the day somebody forgot > - to change the tape... you lost yesterdays data > - Depends. If you run two tape drives and have a tape jockey onsite to swap the tapes, you're OK. > - out here... 50-100GB of data to play with per day per user ... > - most of the generated outputs is not backed up > since its easily regenerated by the spice programs... > > - when doing full chip layouts... we can get into 10's Terabytes > of data... most of which i claim is worthless > and constantly changing .. no pointto backup other than for "archive" > and the lawyers to have a running history... A terabyte is 10 AIT-3 tapes. How many disks is it? > - what cannot be lost is the schematics and simulation parameters > > all that (incremental) data is saved over 3-6 month periods... > - each user pc has about 160GB of disks > > - wondering how to backup data/service on an OC3 line now... > ( next project ... > > have fun "backing it up"... > c ya > alvin Believe me when I say that you're in a minority amongst sysadmins on this topic. > > > 30 days worth of the 155GB database that I manage, plus > > the 40GB of flat files == 5.8TB > > > > 30 days worth of the 80GB database that I manage, plus > > the 20GB of flat files == 2.4TB > > > > 30 days of the 1.5TB disk space that my co-worker manages > > plus 200GB of flat files == 57TB. > > > > That's 65.5GB of storage, or 546 120GB ATA disks. The > > cabinets, controllers & power supplies needed to run all > > those disks is _really_ expensive. (If you want them to > > be RAID5 secure, add, oh, 15% more disks, so that's 628 > > spindles!!) Yes. These are the kinds of numbers I came up with when contemplating a disk-based backup system for the system I work on which entails backing up circa 100GB a night. I need to keep long-term backups for a year, too. > > Last, but _certainly_ not least: > > If the machine gets destroyed (fire, etc), there goes a > > huge business. Can't happen? I managed an 80GB OLTP > > database in the WTC... > > > > There is NO WAY I'd allow an important production system > > without off-site tape storage. Werd to that, Ron. Peter. -- Peter Whysall [EMAIL PROTECTED] The TLD in my email address is sdrawkcab. Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 sid -- kernel 2.4.18 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
hi ya ron On 19 May 2002, Ron Johnson wrote: > You and I must think on different scales... think its similar scales.. - different ways to skin the cat... - a tape is 40 - 80GB same as disks ... nowdays disks is always slightly higher capacity - there was a time when a single tape had more capacity than a single disk... and better price for disk$$$/MB vs tape$$$/MB - in the old days... whan disks were expensive per GByte and tapes were comparably cheaper tapes would be better - any argument for number of disks is equally applicable to number of tapes - tape library vs raid ... ( same issue here too ) - we had/have a bunch of Exabyte Magnum(?) drives ( $8K each ) a few years ago ... when 20GB disks was just coming out... but the tqpes was too slow... even with tar + buffer ... tape cant keep up for backing up xxxGB of data - went to disks for backup and never looked back since... those tapes was good for 80GB or so... and we had 40 users at 20GB each... - i require 3 independent sources of backups 2 is minimum - - offsite is not important as much as in different buildings - - if a build burns down in a fire... that's what monthly backup is for take the disk and store it some place else ... --- if the disks is raid5'd ... give one disk --- to each of the CEO/CFO/CTO/foo/bar and no one user --- has all the data... no way for stealing corp secrets - majority of stufff i do is across the ocean ... - - can't go around changing tapes... :-) - and even if the tapes was in my office... i still wont use it - as we all step away on weeekends and holidays and sick etc... - - i say a tape based backup fails the day somebody forgot - to change the tape... you lost yesterdays data - - out here... 50-100GB of data to play with per day per user ... - most of the generated outputs is not backed up since its easily regenerated by the spice programs... - when doing full chip layouts... we can get into 10's Terabytes of data... most of which i claim is worthless and constantly changing .. no pointto backup other than for "archive" and the lawyers to have a running history... - what cannot be lost is the schematics and simulation parameters all that (incremental) data is saved over 3-6 month periods... - each user pc has about 160GB of disks - wondering how to backup data/service on an OC3 line now... ( next project ... have fun "backing it up"... c ya alvin > 30 days worth of the 155GB database that I manage, plus > the 40GB of flat files == 5.8TB > > 30 days worth of the 80GB database that I manage, plus > the 20GB of flat files == 2.4TB > > 30 days of the 1.5TB disk space that my co-worker manages > plus 200GB of flat files == 57TB. > > That's 65.5GB of storage, or 546 120GB ATA disks. The > cabinets, controllers & power supplies needed to run all > those disks is _really_ expensive. (If you want them to > be RAID5 secure, add, oh, 15% more disks, so that's 628 > spindles!!) > > Last, but _certainly_ not least: > If the machine gets destroyed (fire, etc), there goes a > huge business. Can't happen? I managed an 80GB OLTP > database in the WTC... > > There is NO WAY I'd allow an important production system > without off-site tape storage. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
You and I must think on different scales... 30 days worth of the 155GB database that I manage, plus the 40GB of flat files == 5.8TB 30 days worth of the 80GB database that I manage, plus the 20GB of flat files == 2.4TB 30 days of the 1.5TB disk space that my co-worker manages plus 200GB of flat files == 57TB. That's 65.5GB of storage, or 546 120GB ATA disks. The cabinets, controllers & power supplies needed to run all those disks is _really_ expensive. (If you want them to be RAID5 secure, add, oh, 15% more disks, so that's 628 spindles!!) Last, but _certainly_ not least: If the machine gets destroyed (fire, etc), there goes a huge business. Can't happen? I managed an 80GB OLTP database in the WTC... There is NO WAY I'd allow an important production system without off-site tape storage. On Sun, 2002-05-19 at 19:24, Alvin Oga wrote: > > hi ya ron > > > [snip] > > > - tons of problems with tapes for "large amount of data"... > > > > You get what you pay for. At work, we use DLTs, and _never_ > > have problems, as long as we run the cleaning tape weekly. > > Part of the reason is that DLT drives are made well, and another > > reason is that these drives have hardware ECC. > > > tapes are less reliable than disks... > > > and i dont ever wanna remove tapes... some moron always forgets > to change the tape etc... or clean the head later > > > > - i prefer disks for backups... fast, easy, cheap and > > > (offline) live backups > > > > On a production box of any size, that is totally impractical. > > Tapes are, by their nature, removable, whereas, IDE disks are > > not. SCSI disks are, but a 72GB disk is _way_ expensive. > > So, on a box the size we use at work, in order to have a month > > of backups, you'd need 90 72GB SCSI disks. No fscking way!! > > 90 DLT4 tapes, on the other hand, is expensive, but affordable. > > precisely why tapes are impractical > - but there are tons of data on existing disks ... > > > 160GB ide disks is $150-$200 range... cheap... > - 1Terabyte of backup in one 1u chassis.. no problem... > and i do compressed backups of up to 3 or 6 months... dpeending > on diskspace they willing ot buy and user data > > IDE disks are ideal for backups... its already up and running > and is live... within a few minute if one does 1:1 mirror backups... > or goes live as soon as tar uncompresses on disks ... > ( no fussing on where is the tape.. and which tape... > > - lost data need to be recovered and online within the hour... > > - realtime transaction based data is a separate issue... > ( and they have the $$$ too ..hopefully ... -- +-+ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81 | | | | "I have created a government of whirled peas..."| | Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, 12-May-2002, | ! CNN, Larry King Live | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software - tape vs disk
hi ya ron > [snip] > > - tons of problems with tapes for "large amount of data"... > > You get what you pay for. At work, we use DLTs, and _never_ > have problems, as long as we run the cleaning tape weekly. > Part of the reason is that DLT drives are made well, and another > reason is that these drives have hardware ECC. tapes are less reliable than disks... and i dont ever wanna remove tapes... some moron always forgets to change the tape etc... or clean the head later > > - i prefer disks for backups... fast, easy, cheap and > > (offline) live backups > > On a production box of any size, that is totally impractical. > Tapes are, by their nature, removable, whereas, IDE disks are > not. SCSI disks are, but a 72GB disk is _way_ expensive. > So, on a box the size we use at work, in order to have a month > of backups, you'd need 90 72GB SCSI disks. No fscking way!! > 90 DLT4 tapes, on the other hand, is expensive, but affordable. precisely why tapes are impractical - but there are tons of data on existing disks ... 160GB ide disks is $150-$200 range... cheap... - 1Terabyte of backup in one 1u chassis.. no problem... and i do compressed backups of up to 3 or 6 months... dpeending on diskspace they willing ot buy and user data IDE disks are ideal for backups... its already up and running and is live... within a few minute if one does 1:1 mirror backups... or goes live as soon as tar uncompresses on disks ... ( no fussing on where is the tape.. and which tape... - lost data need to be recovered and online within the hour... - realtime transaction based data is a separate issue... ( and they have the $$$ too ..hopefully ... c ya alvin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
On Sun, 2002-05-19 at 18:18, Alvin Oga wrote: > > hi ya [snip] > - tons of problems with tapes for "large amount of data"... You get what you pay for. At work, we use DLTs, and _never_ have problems, as long as we run the cleaning tape weekly. Part of the reason is that DLT drives are made well, and another reason is that these drives have hardware ECC. > - i prefer disks for backups... fast, easy, cheap and > (offline) live backups On a production box of any size, that is totally impractical. Tapes are, by their nature, removable, whereas, IDE disks are not. SCSI disks are, but a 72GB disk is _way_ expensive. So, on a box the size we use at work, in order to have a month of backups, you'd need 90 72GB SCSI disks. No fscking way!! 90 DLT4 tapes, on the other hand, is expensive, but affordable. -- +-+ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA http://ronandheather.dhs.org:81 | | | | "I have created a government of whirled peas..."| | Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, 12-May-2002, | ! CNN, Larry King Live | +-+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
hi ya i thought amanda needed "temp space for it to backup its file to go to backup" .. ie.. if you backing up 100GB of user data ... you need another 100GB of space too ... before it goes to the final backup media ( tape ? ) - 1TB in some cases of backups ... -- tar is a time tested best backup free software for backups.. - you can do anything you like with it.. no restrictions ?? make sure you can recover if one or two of the tapes is bad... or if somebody lost the tape.. or if the heads/tapes went bad one script .. for all the various backups .. ( 3-6 lines in cron ) backup.sh < -daily | -weekly | -monthly > < -full > incremental daily... tar zcvf /dev/tape `find /usr/local /var /etc /root /hom -mtime -2` - increment the counter daily, for sat == -8 days of backup incremental weekly tar zcvf /dev/tape `find /usr/local /var /etc /root /hom -mtime -30` - do additional weekly full backup if large amount of data incremental monthly tar zcvf /dev/tape `find /usr/local /var /etc /root /hom -mtime -90` - do additional monthly full backup if large amount of data c ya alvin http://www.Linux-Backup.net .. lots of free backup scripts .. backup strategy... make multiple copies - if doing to dds tapes... clean your heads weekely... - read the tapes back weekly to a virgin machine and see if all the data is readable... - tons of problems with tapes for "large amount of data"... - i prefer disks for backups... fast, easy, cheap and (offline) live backups On Sun, 19 May 2002, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > On 19 May 2002 13:58:29 -0500 > "Kirk Strauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm a big fan of Amanda, which uses tar or dump to backup as many remote > > machines as you want to a central backup server. > > Doesn't Amanda require a "backup" partition? Doesn't the partition also > need to be the size of your largest backup target? This extra space > requirement always turned me off of Amanda. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
On 19 May 2002 13:58:29 -0500 "Kirk Strauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm a big fan of Amanda, which uses tar or dump to backup as many remote > machines as you want to a central backup server. Doesn't Amanda require a "backup" partition? Doesn't the partition also need to be the size of your largest backup target? This extra space requirement always turned me off of Amanda. -- Jamin W. Collins -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
At this link you have alternatives described : http://www-105.ibm.com/developerworks/education.nsf/ linux-onlinecourse-bytitle/0FB4D16BD2C3E83E86256AA2005244D1?OpenDocument Florentin. On Sun, 19 May 2002, Michael Madden wrote : » Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 10:26:26 -0500 » From: Michael Madden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> » To: debian-user@lists.debian.org » Subject: Recommended tape backup software » Resent-Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 10:32:43 -0700 » Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org » » Which tape backup software is considered the best? I not really » considering commericial products, but I'd like to stick to one of the » following: dump, tar, cpio, pax » » I will be backing up ext2 and ext3 filesystems to a DDS4 tape drive » on the local machine. Is any of the prementioned backup utilities » considered superior? » » Thanks, » Mike » -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
At 2002-05-19T15:26:26Z, Michael Madden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Which tape backup software is considered the best? I not really > considering commericial products, but I'd like to stick to one of the > following: dump, tar, cpio, pax I'm a big fan of Amanda, which uses tar or dump to backup as many remote machines as you want to a central backup server. I'm currently using it to backup a FreeBSD server, two Linux workstations, a Windows2000 desktop, and an OpenBSD machine 3 states away. Oh, and it's free, and you can do bare-metal recovery from its backup tapes using a boot floppy and tar or restore as appropriate. -- Kirk Strauser -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Recommended tape backup software
On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 10:26:26AM -0500, Michael Madden wrote: > Which tape backup software is considered the best? I not really > considering commericial products, but I'd like to stick to one of the > following: dump, tar, cpio, pax > > I will be backing up ext2 and ext3 filesystems to a DDS4 tape drive > on the local machine. Is any of the prementioned backup utilities > considered superior? I heard very convincing argument for afio by Manoj. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-tips.en.html#s8.3 8.3.6 afio Afio is a better way of dealing with cpio-format archives. It is generally faster than cpio, provides more diverse magnetic tape options and deals somewhat gracefully with input data corruption. It deals somewhat gracefully with input data corruption. Supports multi-volume archives during interactive operation. Afio can make compressed archives that are much safer than compressed tar or cpio archives. Afio is best used as an `archive engine' in a backup script. -- ~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ + Osamu Aoki @ Cupertino CA USA See "User's Guide": http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/ See "Debian reference": http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ "Debian reference" Project at: http://qref.sf.net I welcome your constructive criticisms and corrections. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Recommended tape backup software
Which tape backup software is considered the best? I not really considering commericial products, but I'd like to stick to one of the following: dump, tar, cpio, pax I will be backing up ext2 and ext3 filesystems to a DDS4 tape drive on the local machine. Is any of the prementioned backup utilities considered superior? Thanks, Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tape backup software
On Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 12:59:48AM +0100, Stephen J . Thompson wrote: > > Can anyone recomend some tape backup software for a DAT drive? I need > software that can allow backups to span multiple tapes. You want amanda. It's spread across a few packages in Debian: amanda-common, amanda-client, and amanda-server. In addition to dealing with multiple volumes, it can be made to deal with multiple hosts. Configuration can be a bitch, and I'm not sure what the current status is regarding its security. It used to be based on .rhosts, and didn't use any kind of crypto or reliable authentication. noah -- ___ | Web: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/ | PGP Public Key: http://web.morgul.net/~frodo/mail.html pgpVnltN1fLyM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Tape backup software
on Thu, Jul 19, 2001 at 12:59:48AM +0100, Stephen J. Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > Hello all, > > Can anyone recomend some tape backup software for a DAT drive? I need > software that can allow backups to span multiple tapes. See: http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Linux/FAQs/backups.html My own recommendation is KISS. -- Karsten M. Self http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? There is no K5 cabal http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/ http://www.kuro5hin.org Are these opinions my employer's? Hah! I don't believe them myself! pgpocy6G7BmuV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Tape backup software
Stephen J.Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Can anyone recomend some tape backup software for a DAT drive? I need > software that can allow backups to span multiple tapes. Well, the obvious answer is tar (has a --multi-volume option). -- Leonard Stiles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Tape backup software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Hello all, Can anyone recomend some tape backup software for a DAT drive? I need software that can allow backups to span multiple tapes. Thanks. Regards, Stephen. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iQIWAwUBO1Yi9bqZwrUTrKD5FAOFcgf49jIB7Vz5ZnaVQc33hPiQ6nyNl+UainTH KB3PBTr3GmnR8acQROx5nzZEyFskyiNGcPOlrgMGsEJx8mlkUL2e8jCXlSHdvB3F SBno8KdKcpd9GvRu/CK4p3hgJiM39H6L+31Oi2TWB2/ZHjHNdwF0veKU/CQm729z m4oNbXqT0PFvLPXinVMbf33TXPp41FYyyN1s6dji+jmy0sUztHWYbYLqwBPmdH+o XutGLKnPyXJZ84omi8CoQQXvEhlrGugWJ8NGVJeyD4x0PBNdriXsXkTtL0roEEKu RUow4loNbwwcjlLOlLR1rbDaDU7d7JV9/YXAAheJ/pc9j6iy8GLpB/9c2DuYUKld yMSoMxCnHrJ4tEWfedoZckhGY65RMMN8QHQ7Hj2GtKJ1//MWTqSF5gtirW6eYrbm B4pNBB30JGYyXXsp7gfptNgkVhBgJ8nqdfSY4eK4nlyUR54EUL7+2ctrNevnoreq Z5hxc2ABRlepCNKqqH/dPjPuImQ2lCjiXuJ27ZepOunOPTAIi3J8Cr4CVv1fQgCk LEKzeddU3caTJrRRuJqkijWjxlLZSETjEHptyMZjqJyyAwUVBLjcN4GlbzTk/3uh PBR1qSL6zllP6Kgx0Kz10ACJeYOC3nhipglAAEftG+Im55IFmASLFH4VLx3i8db0 pnzDSGzgGtGc =+COP -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Tape backup software?
Thanks for everyone's input, this gives me some good places to start! Kelly dave brookshire wrote: > > On the open source side of things, I'm a big fan of Amanda. You can > find the original source and stuff at ftp://ftp.cs.umd.edu/pub/amanda, or > at http://www.amanda.org/. > > On the closed source side of things, I'm a HUGE fan of Veritas' NetBackup > product. Sadly, the current version supports Linux as a client, not a > backup master, or media server. If you've got a lot of things to backup, > I like the distributed Veritas scheme of things. It's pretty expensive, > though. > > I've used both extensively, and recommend them. > > -db > > dave brookshire > chief engineer > eAgents.com > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (703)383-6740 x120 -- -- Kelly Corbin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- On the web @ http://www.theiqgroup.com -- The IQ Group, Inc. -- 5018 Hadley Ave. -- Overland Park, KS 66203 -- (913)-722-6700 -- Fax (913)722-7264
Re: Tape backup software?
On Tue, Jul 25, 2000 at 09:04:53AM -0600, Gary Hennigan wrote: > "Andrew McRobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I have to say that i find that "tar" covers all bases pretty well ... > > depends what you're used to I guess. > > There's at least one issue with tar that's kept me from using it, you > don't want to use software compression with tar. Tar compresses > globally, which means that the whole of the archive is considered one > big compressed file. If something happens to the beginning of the tape > you wouldn't be able to recover any of the data on that tape. This is > in contrast to something like afio which compresses a single file at a > time and then copies it to tape. Of course if you have hardware > compression, or a lot of tapes, this may not be an issue. Bingo on HW compression. With tape archives in general, I'd advocate reliability over compression anyway. -- Karsten M. Self http://www.netcom.com/~kmself Evangelist, Opensales, Inc.http://www.opensales.org What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Debian GNU/Linux rocks! http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/K5: http://www.kuro5hin.org GPG fingerprint: F932 8B25 5FDD 2528 D595 DC61 3847 889F 55F2 B9B0 pgpwlGgyjW4KX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Tape backup software?
>>>>> "Kelly" == Kelly Corbin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Kelly> Has anyone had much experience w/ tape backup in Linux? I am Kelly> looking for tape backup software and was wondering if anyone Kelly> knew which was the "best". Any input would be appreciated. It Kelly> would be for an ATAPI tape backup drive. THANKS! Lots of other people already wrote about the software. I'll only warn about ATAPI. I could not get my drive (HP/Colorado 5000) to work reliably. It would seem to work for a while but then start failing mysteriously in the middle of a tape, always nearly at the same spot (and the tapes were OK, I'm sure of it). I got the source for the last version of the driver and compiled it, it didn't help. Then I bought the cheapest SCSI drive I could find and it works perfectly. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. In his own soul a man bears the source from which he draws all his sorrows and his joys. Sophocles.
Re: Tape backup software?
On 25 Jul 2000, Riku Saikkonen wrote: > Has anyone tried recovering damaged .tar.bz2 files? Any success / > failure? Hi, guys. Here's what I did: # cd /tmp # tail -c 1048576 /dev/hda > t.bulk.o # cat t.bulk.o | bzip2 -1 > t.bulk.bz2 # echo "Damage string to insert before actual bz2 image" > tmp.1 # cat tmp.1 t.bulk.bz2 > t.bulk.dmg.bz2 # bunzip2 -k t.bulk.dmg.bz2 bunzip2: t.bulk.dmg.bz2 is not a bzip2 file. # bzip2 -vvt t.bulk.dmg.bz2 t.bulk.dmg.bz2: bad magic number (file not created by bzip2) You can use the `bzip2recover' program to attempt to recover data from undamaged sections of corrupted files. # bzip2recover t.bulk.dmg.bz2 bzip2recover: searching for block boundaries ... block 1 runs from 464 to 305416 block 2 runs from 305465 to 698960 block 3 runs from 699009 to 1083281 block 4 runs from 1083330 to 1398097 block 5 runs from 1398146 to 1846240 block 6 runs from 1846289 to 2325383 block 7 runs from 2325432 to 2584085 block 8 runs from 2584134 to 2763608 block 9 runs from 2763657 to 3217006 block 10 runs from 3217055 to 3483161 bzip2recover: splitting into blocks writing block 1 to `rec0001t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 2 to `rec0002t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 3 to `rec0003t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 4 to `rec0004t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 5 to `rec0005t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 6 to `rec0006t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 7 to `rec0007t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 8 to `rec0008t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 9 to `rec0009t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... writing block 10 to `rec0010t.bulk.dmg.bz2' ... bzip2recover: finished # bzip2 -vvt rec[0-9]*t.bulk.dmg.bz2 rec0001t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0002t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0003t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0004t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0005t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0006t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0007t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0008t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0009t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok rec0010t.bulk.dmg.bz2: [1: huff+mtf rt+rld] ok # bunzip2 -c rec[0-9]*t.bulk.dmg.bz2 > t.bulk.dmg # diff -u t.bulk.o t.bulk.dmg I also tried "joe"-ing the bz2 file and recovering. It worked as described in the manual page. (The block I "edited" was lost) Hope you are happy now, Pavel
Re: Tape backup software?
"Gary Hennigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Has anyone tried recovering damaged .tar.bz2 files? Any success / > > failure? I'd also like to know about this. > > (By the way, there is also afio, which is a command-line tool like tar > > but compresses one file at a time. The format, of course, isn't > > compatible with tar, and afio isn't as widely available on rescue > > disks, other Unices, and such.) Using it here. No problems yet, though it would be nice to have a "self-booting, fully automatic recovery solution." I mean, one that's *free*. > I've also used "dump" on a lot of Unix systems. Unfortunately the last > time I tried the GNU/Linux version it wouldn't back up FAT partitions > and so wasn't suited to my needs. Dump on Linux is specific to the ext2 filesystem. :-( I'd try it, but I'm using reiserfs on one partition. This came over the reiserfs mailing list a couple times in the last few weeks. It fits nicely into this topic: http://reality.sgi.com/zwicky_neu/testdump.doc.html Jesse -- For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. http://members.home.net/jmjacobsen1/glc/
Re: Tape backup software?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Riku Saikkonen) writes: > "Gary Hennigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >There's at least one issue with tar that's kept me from using it, you > >don't want to use software compression with tar. Tar compresses > >globally, which means that the whole of the archive is considered one > >big compressed file. If something happens to the beginning of the tape > >you wouldn't be able to recover any of the data on that tape. This is > > This depends on what you compress with. Gzip can't recover if there is > an error, but the manual page of bzip2 says that it "may" be able to > recover everything but a 900 Kb block around the error. (The block > size 900 Kb seems to be configurable via a command-line option to the > compressor.) > > Has anyone tried recovering damaged .tar.bz2 files? Any success / > failure? > > > (By the way, there is also afio, which is a command-line tool like tar > but compresses one file at a time. The format, of course, isn't > compatible with tar, and afio isn't as widely available on rescue > disks, other Unices, and such.) Which was mentioned in my original post, and conveniently snipped from what you copied in to your post. ;) Personally I like afbackup. Not too difficult to configure, and once installed you can almost totally forget about it. It also has a file-at-a-time compression scheme so my old 4mm, sans hardware compression, is more usable. Of course I have a small LAN in my home and afbackup is a client-server system well suited to working on a LAN. The trouble to set it up may not be worth it for a stand-alone system. The drawback is that afbackup might not be as portable as even afio and might not fit on a rescue floppy. Neither of which is an issue for me since I use a CD-R and a boot floppy for my rescue needs and I'd have no need to restore the backed up data from my home PC's to an outside system. I've also used "dump" on a lot of Unix systems. Unfortunately the last time I tried the GNU/Linux version it wouldn't back up FAT partitions and so wasn't suited to my needs. Gary
Re: Tape backup software?
"Gary Hennigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >There's at least one issue with tar that's kept me from using it, you >don't want to use software compression with tar. Tar compresses >globally, which means that the whole of the archive is considered one >big compressed file. If something happens to the beginning of the tape >you wouldn't be able to recover any of the data on that tape. This is This depends on what you compress with. Gzip can't recover if there is an error, but the manual page of bzip2 says that it "may" be able to recover everything but a 900 Kb block around the error. (The block size 900 Kb seems to be configurable via a command-line option to the compressor.) Has anyone tried recovering damaged .tar.bz2 files? Any success / failure? (By the way, there is also afio, which is a command-line tool like tar but compresses one file at a time. The format, of course, isn't compatible with tar, and afio isn't as widely available on rescue disks, other Unices, and such.) -- -=- Rjs -=- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tape backup software?
Gary Hennigan wrote: > There's at least one issue with tar that's kept me from using it, you > don't want to use software compression with tar. In addition, you should have some sort of verification that the data written to tape is actually good. I personally have used BRU for over 5 years. Very flexible, and has never failed me once. http://www.estinc.com Regards, Mark === Mark A. Bialik (414) 290-6749 Network/Security Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Infinity HealthCare, Inc.Mequon, WI
Re: Tape backup software?
"Andrew McRobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I have to say that i find that "tar" covers all bases pretty well ... > depends what you're used to I guess. There's at least one issue with tar that's kept me from using it, you don't want to use software compression with tar. Tar compresses globally, which means that the whole of the archive is considered one big compressed file. If something happens to the beginning of the tape you wouldn't be able to recover any of the data on that tape. This is in contrast to something like afio which compresses a single file at a time and then copies it to tape. Of course if you have hardware compression, or a lot of tapes, this may not be an issue. Gary
RE: Tape backup software?
I have to say that i find that "tar" covers all bases pretty well ... depends what you're used to I guess. tks Andrew -Original Message- From: Olaf Meeuwissen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 10:47 AM To: Krzys Majewski Cc: Kelly Corbin; Debian Userslist Subject: Re: Tape backup software? Krzys Majewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Tar! > -chris > > On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Kelly Corbin wrote: > > > Has anyone had much experience w/ tape backup in Linux? I am looking > > for tape backup software and was wondering if anyone knew which was the > > "best". Any input would be appreciated. It would be for an ATAPI tape > > backup drive. THANKS! With Linux the device doesn't really matter in most cases, so your question boils down to what is a good backup solution. The answer depends on the situation (as always ;-). I'm using tob with afio to backup my users (all ten or so of them). Wrote some simple scripts for monthly full, weekly differential and daily incremental backups and things work just fine. The archives are written to external HD right now, but I may change to CD-RW or MO disk. You may also want to look at dump, taper, kbackup, afbackup and/or amanda. The latter two seemed a bit overkill in my situation. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen Epson Kowa Corporation, Research and Development -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] < /dev/null
Re: Tape backup software?
Krzys Majewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Tar! > -chris > > On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Kelly Corbin wrote: > > > Has anyone had much experience w/ tape backup in Linux? I am looking > > for tape backup software and was wondering if anyone knew which was the > > "best". Any input would be appreciated. It would be for an ATAPI tape > > backup drive. THANKS! With Linux the device doesn't really matter in most cases, so your question boils down to what is a good backup solution. The answer depends on the situation (as always ;-). I'm using tob with afio to backup my users (all ten or so of them). Wrote some simple scripts for monthly full, weekly differential and daily incremental backups and things work just fine. The archives are written to external HD right now, but I may change to CD-RW or MO disk. You may also want to look at dump, taper, kbackup, afbackup and/or amanda. The latter two seemed a bit overkill in my situation. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen Epson Kowa Corporation, Research and Development
Re: Tape backup software?
Tar! -chris On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Kelly Corbin wrote: > Has anyone had much experience w/ tape backup in Linux? I am looking > for tape backup software and was wondering if anyone knew which was the > "best". Any input would be appreciated. It would be for an ATAPI tape > backup drive. THANKS! > > Kelly > > > -- > > -- Kelly Corbin > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] < /dev/null >
Re: Tape backup software?
On Mon, Jul 24, 2000 at 04:43:42PM -0500, Kelly Corbin wrote: > Has anyone had much experience w/ tape backup in Linux? I am looking > for tape backup software and was wondering if anyone knew which was the > "best". Any input would be appreciated. It would be for an ATAPI tape > backup drive. THANKS! > > Kelly On the open source side of things, I'm a big fan of Amanda. You can find the original source and stuff at ftp://ftp.cs.umd.edu/pub/amanda, or at http://www.amanda.org/. On the closed source side of things, I'm a HUGE fan of Veritas' NetBackup product. Sadly, the current version supports Linux as a client, not a backup master, or media server. If you've got a lot of things to backup, I like the distributed Veritas scheme of things. It's pretty expensive, though. I've used both extensively, and recommend them. -db dave brookshire chief engineer eAgents.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] (703)383-6740 x120
Tape backup software?
Has anyone had much experience w/ tape backup in Linux? I am looking for tape backup software and was wondering if anyone knew which was the "best". Any input would be appreciated. It would be for an ATAPI tape backup drive. THANKS! Kelly -- -- Kelly Corbin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
