Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 01:02:40PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: I know what you mean, but in the end this is absolutlely free support from people who do have other lives. I have learned that the quality and accuracy of the question I ask is incredibly important. Exact error messages are very important. Also if you are running Squeeze or Sid then you need to be careful when upgrading to newer versions of software. I don't know if aptitude uses apt-listbugs or its own method, but you should set it up to list open bugs before installing the package and investigate any bugs¹ *before* installing the package. Quite often the bug report will have the information needed to work around the problem. ¹ At least with apt-listbugs you can investigate the bugs interactively just by typing in the bug number, I don't know how aptitude does it. -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Dne, 11. 05. 2009 16:21:05 je Klistvud napisal(a): Dne, 11. 05. 2009 11:04:47 je Andrew G napisal(a): 1) When I right-click on an image file in my home directory in order to access the properties of that image to add notes to it, the whole set of desktop icons, including my home directory and Conky all disappear for a few seconds and then re-appear (except when it does, Conky has been killed). As opposed to KDE, Conky is a full-blown PITA to configure in Gnome. It's apparently due to the different mechanism used to draw the desktop background by these two desktop environments. This is especially obvious when you try to get Conky display as a transparent, backdrop window, blending nicely into the background wallpaper. I know, I've been using Conky both on KDE4.x (a sorry excuse for a DE, but Conky works a treat) and Gnome (never got Conky to work except as a stand-alone window with title bar and all - which has never been what I wanted it for). Maybe that's the reason why many Gnomists use gkrellm instead?? 2) When double-clicking on an image file, EOG is opened as the default image viewer. Isn't there an option/checkbox to always open with when you select Open with? If so, you may be lucky digging through the settings in Gnome configuration manager (or what the heck it's called), you know, the program that manipulates the Gnome registry. 3) Despite setting up a script to be called when Gnome starts up, Conky appears briefly and then is replaced/ over-written by the desktop image. This is a corollary of point 1) actually. 4) Finally, icons from removable media are not being placed on my desktop like they used to. Have already seen the same exact complaint (on this very same list if I'm not mistaken), but can't really say anything, as it has never happened to me (yet...) I don't know if there is a secret code or something that I am supposed to be using to get some response? I am using a Debian system, the Debian community is supposed to be helpful, I am asking questions politely and giving as much info as possible. I get the exact same feeling sometimes. It would seem we're both missing something here. Yes, it may well be a secret code. Sheer, untainted love for the distro apparently just isn't enough. It's also been said thou shalt never post during a weekend/holiday. Most Debian gurus are not at their (work) computers then. But other times, I get more answers than I'd ever hoped for, and very pertinent, knowledgeable answers at that! So I'd say you can't really generalize. Good luck in solving your issues, and may a God, a Guru or a forthcoming debian update solve them for you very soon! -- Certifiable Loonix User 481801 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Just an update: if you don't want conky to just briefly appear after startup and then disappear forever, you should launch it with a line such as: bash -c sleep 10; conky -c .my-conky-config-file In other words, conky MUST be started AFTER Nautilus, otherwise it will just get obscured/overdrawn by Nautilus. Good Luck. -- Certifiable Loonix User 481801 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 16:21 +0200, Klistvud wrote: As opposed to KDE, Conky is a full-blown PITA to configure in Gnome. Funny, I just installed conky and it works fine (using GNOME/Metacity on Debian Lenny). I haven't rebooted or logged out of GNOME since I did it, so maybe the problems you describe will surface when I try that. The default .conkyrc was setup like so (and I'm pretty sure I didn't change any of these, except to comment out the own_window_colour property): # Create own window instead of using desktop (required in nautilus) own_window yes # If own_window is yes, you may use type normal, desktop or override own_window_type normal # Use pseudo transparency with own_window? own_window_transparent yes # If own_window_transparent is set to no, you can set the background colour here #own_window_colour hotpink # If own_window is yes, these window manager hints may be used own_window_hints undecorated,below,sticky,skip_taskbar,skip_pager # Use double buffering (reduces flicker, may not work for everyone) double_buffer yes The window appears transparent, with no title bar or window decorations. -- Michael M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Michael M. Moore wrote: On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 16:21 +0200, Klistvud wrote: As opposed to KDE, Conky is a full-blown PITA to configure in Gnome. Funny, I just installed conky and it works fine (using GNOME/Metacity on Debian Lenny). I haven't rebooted or logged out of GNOME since I did it, so maybe the problems you describe will surface when I try that. The default .conkyrc was setup like so (and I'm pretty sure I didn't change any of these, except to comment out the own_window_colour property): # Create own window instead of using desktop (required in nautilus) own_window yes # If own_window is yes, you may use type normal, desktop or override own_window_type normal # Use pseudo transparency with own_window? own_window_transparent yes # If own_window_transparent is set to no, you can set the background colour here #own_window_colour hotpink # If own_window is yes, these window manager hints may be used own_window_hints undecorated,below,sticky,skip_taskbar,skip_pager # Use double buffering (reduces flicker, may not work for everyone) double_buffer yes The window appears transparent, with no title bar or window decorations. Michael The problems I describe are only manifest at login. I can manually start conky at a terminal just fine. My conkyrc is given below for reference: alignment top_left background yes border_width 1 cpu_avg_samples 2 default_color white default_outline_color white default_shade_color white draw_borders no draw_graph_borders yes draw_outline no draw_shades no use_xft yes xftfont 123:size=6 gap_x 5 gap_y 60 minimum_size 250 5 maximum_width 500 net_avg_samples 2 double_buffer yes out_to_console no own_window yes # own_window_hints undecorated,below,skip_taskbar own_window_transparent yes own_window_class Conky own_window_type override stippled_borders 0 update_interval 3.0 uppercase no use_spacer left show_graph_scale no show_graph_range no The commented line is one of the suggestions Gav made yesterday, so I tried it, but realised I didn't like the placement. But otherwise I'd say that there is a pretty decent consistency between our respective Conky(ies?) files. Klistvud wrote: Dne, 11. 05. 2009 16:21:05 je Klistvud napisal(a): Just an update: if you don't want conky to just briefly appear after startup and then disappear forever, you should launch it with a line such as: bash -c sleep 10; conky -c .my-conky-config-file In other words, conky MUST be started AFTER Nautilus, otherwise it will just get obscured/overdrawn by Nautilus. Good Luck. Thanks Klistvud I had used the session manager to start a new login by calling a script I had written which included the sleep option. I'm currently using Xfce4 right now and that actually fired Conky right up (!) and doesn't do any of the issues I reported from Gnome. Gnome feels like an old shoe really, so I wouldn't mind trying out your suggestion at the start up, rather than calling a script to call Conky, to see if I can get it sorted. It may well be a case of systematically commenting out suspect lines until something works. It may just be a Nautilus issue. I'll post back later with any discoveries. Who knows, when I go back perhaps the other problem to do with the mouse and accessing properties of files via right click open properties may also be fixed too. Perhaps Nautilus is volatile at present. AG -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 19:56 +0100, AG wrote: The commented line is one of the suggestions Gav made yesterday, so I tried it, but realised I didn't like the placement. But otherwise I'd say that there is a pretty decent consistency between our respective Conky(ies?) files. You might look at the effect of 'own_window_type' -- I have normal, you have override. Since I've only been playing around with conky for a very short time, I haven't looked into what all the options for the various settings mean, or what effect they're supposed to have. Gav, IIRC, mentioned that he had to change 'own_window_type' from root to normal when he switched from Fluxbox to GNOME. It may well be a case of systematically commenting out suspect lines until something works. It may just be a Nautilus issue. I'll post back later with any discoveries. You might also consider (if you haven't done this already -- apologies if you have) just copying over the sample from /usr/share/doc/conky/examples and starting with that, just to see if the magic combination of configuration options is buried within. If it is, that would at least give you a .conkyrc that doesn't exhibit the behavior you're trying to tease out. Who knows, when I go back perhaps the other problem to do with the mouse and accessing properties of files via right click open properties may also be fixed too. Perhaps Nautilus is volatile at present. Nautilus is moving to volatile? Whoa ... big changes coming in Squeeze! :-) I am figuring on reinstalling Debian to switch from i686 to amd64 and was pondering whether this would be the time to upgrade to Squeeze. But seeing all the problems Squeeze and Sid users are having lately -- at least, or especially, GNOME users -- I think I'll stick with Lenny for the time being. -- Michael M. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Conky is one issue and a rather minor one at that and rates as an annoyance. It may just be that Gnome and Conky don't play nicely together, because trying it out on Fluxbox, Xfce4 and even KDE all is fine. Gnome however, well that is something I will continue to hack away at. I have conky working fine with Lenny and Gnome, I needed to add the following to the .conkyrc: own_window yes own_window_hints undecorated,below,skip_taskbar own_window_transparent yes double_buffer yes And comment out: #own_window_type root Which worked fine under Fluxbox, to stop it vanishing. Then to get it to start up reliably, I had to add it to the gnome session, via System Preferences Sessions and Add. Hopefully that helps. -- Gav Ford g...@revford.co.uk http://revford.co.uk I think we need to: Deflect the sonar deflector -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Gav Ford wrote: I have conky working fine with Lenny and Gnome, I needed to add the following to the .conkyrc: own_window yes own_window_hints undecorated,below,skip_taskbar own_window_transparent yes double_buffer yes And comment out: #own_window_type root Which worked fine under Fluxbox, to stop it vanishing. Then to get it to start up reliably, I had to add it to the gnome session, via System Preferences Sessions and Add. Hopefully that helps. Hi Gav Thanks for the suggestions - I did have those in the .conkyrc file already (well, with the exception of own_window_hints undecorated,below,skip_taskbar which I have now added as well for good measure). Next time I log out and back in again, I'll have to see what happens. I appreciate your input, thanks. I see that there appeared to be a number of Gnome-related libraries in today's update, so perhaps (magically) some of that will fix the issue. I'll keep this list posted on developments. Thanks again to all who have responded to my tale of woe. All the best AG
Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Hi list Of late, Gnome has been behaving in unpredictable ways. I am using testing/Squeeze and sometime over the last few weeks, a number of changes have taken place that I am unable to reverse, and I would really appreciate a bit of help from this list if that is not too much trouble. In no order of priority: 1) When I right-click on an image file in my home directory in order to access the properties of that image to add notes to it, the whole set of desktop icons, including my home directory and Conky all disappear for a few seconds and then re-appear (except when it does, Conky has been killed). This happens all the time now and so on the multiple images I have which I need to work with, I cannot access any of the notes pertaining to those images because (a) to be able to do so seems to be specifically a Nautillus or is it Metacity (?) functionality and unless I am in Gnome this function doesn't even exist, and (b) there is no way that I can access the notes if the system keeps throwing a wobbly like that. 2) When double-clicking on an image file, EOG is opened as the default image viewer. It used to be, and I would prefer, GQView. However, I cannot see anywhere in Gnome to set this as the default behaviour so I have to right click and select GQView from the open with option. Not my preferred action, but as I said, there isn't any (obvious) way around this. 3) Despite setting up a script to be called when Gnome starts up, Conky appears briefly and then is replaced/ over-written by the desktop image. I have set the script to sleep for about 10 seconds before being drawn, but this just doesn't happen. I can only get Conky going if I manually call it. Again, not a big issue, just a PITA really. 4) Finally, icons from removable media are not being placed on my desktop like they used to. This may well have something to do with UDEV, but beyond that I haven't a clue on what's up nor - even more critically - what I can do about it. I've asked this list for help before on a couple of these issues and the response has been - with the exception of one kind soul who did respond - crap. I don't know if there is a secret code or something that I am supposed to be using to get some response? I am using a Debian system, the Debian community is supposed to be helpful, I am asking questions politely and giving as much info as possible. I have tried to help myself through using Google, but in many instances if one doesn't know what one is looking for, it becomes very hard to find an answer. So, if some generous person on these Debian lists could lend me the benefit of their experience and knowledge, that would be immense benefit and I would be grateful. Thanks in anticipation. AG
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:04:47 +0100, Andrew G (computing.acco...@googlemail.com) wrote: Hi list [Snip tale of woe] I've asked this list for help before on a couple of these issues and the response has been - with the exception of one kind soul who did respond - crap. I don't know if there is a secret code or something that I am supposed to be using to get some response? I am using a Debian system, the Debian community is supposed to be helpful, I am asking questions politely and giving as much info as possible. I have tried to help myself through using Google, but in many instances if one doesn't know what one is looking for, it becomes very hard to find an answer. The crap response is possibly because no one else on this list has experience of your problem or fully understands what you are getting at. Maybe those who do are too busy. Who knows? Personally, despite using Debian for several years, I had never even heard of Conky until I saw your original posting. Also, as I do not use Gnome, I cannot help you at all, but also hope someone else can. Just thinking aloud really, have you tried googling: http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=gnome+conky+problem or http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=gnome+conky+startup Also, perhaps http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=513440 is relevant. So, if some generous person on these Debian lists could lend me the benefit of their experience and knowledge, that would be immense benefit and I would be grateful. -- Bob Cox. Stoke Gifford, near Bristol, UK. Please reply to the list only. Do NOT send copies directly to me. http://bobcox.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
--- On Mon, 11/5/09, Bob Cox debian-u...@lists.bobcox.com wrote: From: Bob Cox debian-u...@lists.bobcox.com Subject: Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, 11 May, 2009, 2:17 PM On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:04:47 +0100, Andrew G (computing.acco...@googlemail.com) wrote: Hi list [Snip tale of woe] I've asked this list for help before on a couple of these issues and the response has been - with the exception of one kind soul who did respond - crap. I don't know if there is a secret code or something that I am supposed to be using to get some response? I am using a Debian system, the Debian community is supposed to be helpful, I am asking questions politely and giving as much info as possible. I have tried to help myself through using Google, but in many instances if one doesn't know what one is looking for, it becomes very hard to find an answer. The crap response is possibly because no one else on this list has experience of your problem or fully understands what you are getting at. Maybe those who do are too busy. Who knows? Personally, despite using Debian for several years, I had never even heard of Conky until I saw your original posting. Also, as I do not use Gnome, I cannot help you at all, but also hope someone else can. Just thinking aloud really, have you tried googling: http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=gnome+conky+problem or http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=gnome+conky+startup Also, perhaps http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=513440 is relevant. In addition to Bobs comments, perhaps you could have a bash at contacting the package maintainer. I don't use squeeze but apt-cache show on etch says : Maintainer: Bartosz Fenski fe...@debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Dne, 11. 05. 2009 11:04:47 je Andrew G napisal(a): 1) When I right-click on an image file in my home directory in order to access the properties of that image to add notes to it, the whole set of desktop icons, including my home directory and Conky all disappear for a few seconds and then re-appear (except when it does, Conky has been killed). As opposed to KDE, Conky is a full-blown PITA to configure in Gnome. It's apparently due to the different mechanism used to draw the desktop background by these two desktop environments. This is especially obvious when you try to get Conky display as a transparent, backdrop window, blending nicely into the background wallpaper. I know, I've been using Conky both on KDE4.x (a sorry excuse for a DE, but Conky works a treat) and Gnome (never got Conky to work except as a stand-alone window with title bar and all - which has never been what I wanted it for). Maybe that's the reason why many Gnomists use gkrellm instead?? 2) When double-clicking on an image file, EOG is opened as the default image viewer. Isn't there an option/checkbox to always open with when you select Open with? If so, you may be lucky digging through the settings in Gnome configuration manager (or what the heck it's called), you know, the program that manipulates the Gnome registry. 3) Despite setting up a script to be called when Gnome starts up, Conky appears briefly and then is replaced/ over-written by the desktop image. This is a corollary of point 1) actually. 4) Finally, icons from removable media are not being placed on my desktop like they used to. Have already seen the same exact complaint (on this very same list if I'm not mistaken), but can't really say anything, as it has never happened to me (yet...) I don't know if there is a secret code or something that I am supposed to be using to get some response? I am using a Debian system, the Debian community is supposed to be helpful, I am asking questions politely and giving as much info as possible. I get the exact same feeling sometimes. It would seem we're both missing something here. Yes, it may well be a secret code. Sheer, untainted love for the distro apparently just isn't enough. It's also been said thou shalt never post during a weekend/holiday. Most Debian gurus are not at their (work) computers then. But other times, I get more answers than I'd ever hoped for, and very pertinent, knowledgeable answers at that! So I'd say you can't really generalize. Good luck in solving your issues, and may a God, a Guru or a forthcoming debian update solve them for you very soon! -- Certifiable Loonix User 481801 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Thanks to those folk who responded. Much appreciated I was beginning to get paranoid ... :-) Conky is one issue and a rather minor one at that and rates as an annoyance. It may just be that Gnome and Conky don't play nicely together, because trying it out on Fluxbox, Xfce4 and even KDE all is fine. Gnome however, well that is something I will continue to hack away at. Thanks for all of the links provided Bob. That was for Conky and to be fair, I should have said that I have been reasonably successful in getting it to work as a consequence of Googling, however, as already stated, with Gnome things are not well. The other issues remain however, and those are the one's I have difficulty Googling for. If it is true that these have already been reported as a bug, then I'll wait for these to be fixed upstream. Anyway, thanks for the comments/ input. AG
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
Andrew G wrote: Hi list Of late, Gnome has been behaving in unpredictable ways. I am using testing/Squeeze and sometime over the last few weeks, a number of changes have taken place that I am unable to reverse, and I would really appreciate a bit of help from this list if that is not too much trouble. In no order of priority: 1) When I right-click on an image file in my home directory in order to access the properties of that image to add notes to it, the whole set of desktop icons, including my home directory and Conky all disappear for a few seconds and then re-appear (except when it does, Conky has been killed). This happens all the time now and so on the multiple images I have which I need to work with, I cannot access any of the notes pertaining to those images because (a) to be able to do so seems to be specifically a Nautillus or is it Metacity (?) functionality and unless I am in Gnome this function doesn't even exist, and (b) there is no way that I can access the notes if the system keeps throwing a wobbly like that. This part I didn't really understand, sorry. Is this just Conky acting up? 2) When double-clicking on an image file, EOG is opened as the default image viewer. It used to be, and I would prefer, GQView. However, I cannot see anywhere in Gnome to set this as the default behaviour so I have to right click and select GQView from the open with option. Not my preferred action, but as I said, there isn't any (obvious) way around this. For any file, right click, go to properies, go to the 'open with' tab. 3) Despite setting up a script to be called when Gnome starts up, Conky appears briefly and then is replaced/ over-written by the desktop image. I have set the script to sleep for about 10 seconds before being drawn, but this just doesn't happen. I can only get Conky going if I manually call it. Again, not a big issue, just a PITA really. 4) Finally, icons from removable media are not being placed on my desktop like they used to. This may well have something to do with UDEV, but beyond that I haven't a clue on what's up nor - even more critically - what I can do about it. I don't like desktop icons anyway, but I know what you mean. I am no expert, but what I've observed seems to be that this happens whenever there is an update that has anything to do with HAL or UDEV, and the only thing that I've found that puts everything back in order is to reboot the system. Otherwise, drives are not mounted automatically, and so I need to mount them manually (right click in Nautilus, choose 'mount'). Keep in mind that Testing is going to be pretty volatile for the next while, there are going to be hiccups. I've asked this list for help before on a couple of these issues and the response has been - with the exception of one kind soul who did respond - crap. I don't know if there is a secret code or something that I am supposed to be using to get some response? I am using a Debian system, the Debian community is supposed to be helpful, I am asking questions politely and giving as much info as possible. I have tried to help myself through using Google, but in many instances if one doesn't know what one is looking for, it becomes very hard to find an answer. I know what you mean, but in the end this is absolutlely free support from people who do have other lives. I have learned that the quality and accuracy of the question I ask is incredibly important. This guy can come off as a bit of dick, so please don't think that I feel the same way about everything, but he has some good points to make: http://catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html So, if some generous person on these Debian lists could lend me the benefit of their experience and knowledge, that would be immense benefit and I would be grateful. -- J -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Unexplained changes in Gnome functionality
On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:04:47AM +0100, Andrew G wrote: 4) Finally, icons from removable media are not being placed on my desktop like they used to. This may well have something to do with UDEV, but beyond that I haven't a clue on what's up nor - even more critically - what I can do about it. Just a guess here, but have a look at SystemPreferencesRemovable Drives and Media. I have the first 3 boxes checked. * Mount Removable drives when hot-plugged * Mount removable media when inserted * Browse removable media when inserted And everything works fine here (lenny) As someone else had mentioned there was some discussion about about this same problem a month or two ago here on this list. -- Daryl Styrk Naples, FL USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
