Re: When a release is ready. (was Re: Re: Debian has turned unusable.)
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 10:46:46PM -0400, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Chris Metzler wrote: One thing that I've never understood, and haven't figured out by reading the Debian Reference or by osmosis from posts here (probably the Debian Developer documents is where I *should* look) is how the goals for a release are determined and communicated to anyone interested. If you find out can you let me know? I propose the Debian distributions be renamed to oozing settling congealed delightful! not bad at all. memorable, clear, and with bountiful character. very picturesque, and ought to help the newbies 'get it'. i know politics probably will reject these at the first filter session, but it's got my vote! :) -- I use Debian/GNU Linux version 3.0; Linux boss 2.4.18-bf2.4 #1 Son Apr 14 09:53:28 CEST 2002 i586 unknown DEBIAN NEWBIE TIP #129 from Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Interested in HACKER CULTURE? For some fun browsing and enlightening anecdotes, browse http://ursine.dyndns.org/jargon/ Also see http://newbieDoc.sourceForge.net/ ... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When a release is ready. (was Re: Re: Debian has turned unusable.)
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 08:47:59PM -0400, Chris Metzler wrote: So I would guess that there's some set of target properties that testing should have before it gets frozen that gets decided upon, e.g. the next release must include a 2.4 kernel by default with a 2.6 kernel optional, the new installer, XF86 v4.3, exim4, GNOME 2.2 or higher, etc. Whatever else is true about testing, and even if the release-critical bug count is zero, the release won't be made until these changes in the distro have been effected, since otherwise it isn't different enough or interesting enough to put out there as a new stable release. And I wonder how those goals are chosen, and where one goes to find out what they are. Probably an archive search of debian-devel would do it; but a better-publicized source (e.g. a page on the Debian website) might be a good idea. If the user community had a clear idea what the major issues for each new release are, they'd know the particular packages/services to concentrate on playing with and filing good bug reports about and so on -- thus perhaps helping to speed up the release. I know that a major focus of this release is the new installer, and that right now that's the main thing people should focus on to help the release get out. But earlier, I dunno what else I should have been installing and hammering on to help the release along. I could probably find it in debian-devel's archives; but maybe a page off the Debian front page (Minimal Goals for the Next Release) would be a good idea. Personally I'd rather see much more time-based releases once we've got a reliably-updated installer post-sarge, but hey ... The real reason that there's little in the way of information here is that it could be reduced to a trivial page looking a bit like this: _ _ _ _ | ___(_)_ __ (_)___| |__ | |_ | | '_ \| / __| '_ \ | _| | | | | | \__ \ | | | |_| |_|_| |_|_|___/_| |_| _ _ |_ _| |__ ___ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | | | | | __/ |_| |_| |_|\___| ___ __ _ _ |_ _|_ __ ___| |_ __ _| | | ___ _ __| | | || '_ \/ __| __/ _` | | |/ _ \ '__| | | || | | \__ \ || (_| | | | __/ | |_| |___|_| |_|___/\__\__,_|_|_|\___|_| (_) Everything else is so far behind that goal that it isn't funny. It's been in every release update posted to debian-devel-announce for the last couple of years. There are minor bits and pieces, sure, but in reality as soon as the new installer's really and truly ready for prime time (which, finally, is a goal that's in sight) we'll be going straight into freeze mode. We (the release management team) have begun putting together better ways to disseminate release targets, but I don't expect them to be decent until we've got sarge out of the way. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: When a release is ready. (was Re: Re: Debian has turned unusable.)
Colin Watson declaimed: _ _ _ _ | ___(_)_ __ (_)___| |__ | |_ | | '_ \| / __| '_ \ | _| | | | | | \__ \ | | | |_| |_|_| |_|_|___/_| |_| _ _ |_ _| |__ ___ | | | '_ \ / _ \ | | | | | | __/ |_| |_| |_|\___| ___ __ _ _ |_ _|_ __ ___| |_ __ _| | | ___ _ __| | | || '_ \/ __| __/ _` | | |/ _ \ '__| | | || | | \__ \ || (_| | | | __/ | |_| |___|_| |_|___/\__\__,_|_|_|\___|_| (_) Colin, you've inspired me. I'm really happy running Sarge/Testing with frequent apt-get dist-upgrades. The only gotcha I've hit in months was the 2.6 kernel wonking my mouse in X and making cdrtoaster use a funny device argument (still can't find the docs but a tip from this list got me going). Of course, I'm happy with stodgy old Mozilla and run a bare Blackbox config in preference to GNOME or KDE. And no, Hugo, I don't use Mondo. I run a journalling file system (ext3) which I test by using the power button to shut down. Haven't lost a file yet :-) But what I haven't done is give back to Debian for years of free computing. So I'm publicly comitting to downloading CDs, testing the installer, and reporting bugs promptly. Specifically, next weekend I'll spend up to 4 hours on it (not counting CD burning). Regards, Paul PS: Points off for the ASCII art, but your credit balance (based on many excellent posts to this list) is not threatened :-) -- Paul Mackinney [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
When a release is ready. (was Re: Re: Debian has turned unusable.)
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:04:33 -0400 Derrick 'dman' Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about shortening the release cycle so that stable is more up-to-date? Let's solve the problem rather than the symptons. :-). (Note - this is not an invitation to begin a flamefest regarding why the release cycle is so long or to make suggestions regarding what other people can do to fix it. Instead it is an invitation to first recognize the issue and second to help resolve it) One thing that I've never understood, and haven't figured out by reading the Debian Reference or by osmosis from posts here (probably the Debian Developer documents is where I *should* look) is how the goals for a release are determined and communicated to anyone interested. What I mean by goals can be illustrated by an absurd example. Imagine that the day after sarge becomes stable, the testing distribution is still exactly the same as sarge, except for a revision update of some non-essential package (e.g. liferea or frozen-bubble); that's all that's come down to testing. This would be a distro that could be released as stable; but it wouldn't be, of course, because why issue another stable release when the only difference is a slight change in some non-essential package? I know Debian's main threshhold for release is when it's ready; but the new release has to be sufficiantly different from the immediately previous one. So I would guess that there's some set of target properties that testing should have before it gets frozen that gets decided upon, e.g. the next release must include a 2.4 kernel by default with a 2.6 kernel optional, the new installer, XF86 v4.3, exim4, GNOME 2.2 or higher, etc. Whatever else is true about testing, and even if the release-critical bug count is zero, the release won't be made until these changes in the distro have been effected, since otherwise it isn't different enough or interesting enough to put out there as a new stable release. And I wonder how those goals are chosen, and where one goes to find out what they are. Probably an archive search of debian-devel would do it; but a better-publicized source (e.g. a page on the Debian website) might be a good idea. If the user community had a clear idea what the major issues for each new release are, they'd know the particular packages/services to concentrate on playing with and filing good bug reports about and so on -- thus perhaps helping to speed up the release. I know that a major focus of this release is the new installer, and that right now that's the main thing people should focus on to help the release get out. But earlier, I dunno what else I should have been installing and hammering on to help the release along. I could probably find it in debian-devel's archives; but maybe a page off the Debian front page (Minimal Goals for the Next Release) would be a good idea. I dunno. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: When a release is ready. (was Re: Re: Debian has turned unusable.)
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Chris Metzler wrote: One thing that I've never understood, and haven't figured out by reading the Debian Reference or by osmosis from posts here (probably the Debian Developer documents is where I *should* look) is how the goals for a release are determined and communicated to anyone interested. If you find out can you let me know? I propose the Debian distributions be renamed to oozing settling congealed -- Jaldhar H. Vyas [EMAIL PROTECTED] La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
