Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Lisi]

On Monday 26 April 2010 16:48:01 Stephen Powell wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:26:40 -0400 (EDT), martin f krafft wrote:
> > also sprach Stephen Powell  [2010.04.26.1617 +0200]:
> >> I think there may be some confusion here, Mr. Krafft.  The comments
> >> I made above were not in reference to anything _you_ wrote.  They were
> >> in reference to the original edition of "The Linux Cookbook", by
> >> Michael Stutz, which was copyrighted in 2001.
> >
> > Ha! But you did quote a sentence on my book and then started with
> > "This". I didn't actually read much further. ;)
> >
> > No harm done.
>
> I'll try to make my segue more clear next time.  Sorry for the confusion.

I misunderstood it too. :-(  You said "this" which I took to refer to the book 
that was under discussion, rather than to refer forwards to the book you were 
about to recommend.

Lisi


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Stephen Powell]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:26:40 -0400 (EDT), martin f krafft wrote:
> 
> also sprach Stephen Powell  [2010.04.26.1617 +0200]:
>> I think there may be some confusion here, Mr. Krafft.  The comments
>> I made above were not in reference to anything _you_ wrote.  They were
>> in reference to the original edition of "The Linux Cookbook", by
>> Michael Stutz, which was copyrighted in 2001.
> 
> Ha! But you did quote a sentence on my book and then started with
> "This". I didn't actually read much further. ;)
> 
> No harm done.

I'll try to make my segue more clear next time.  Sorry for the confusion.

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Stephen Powell  [2010.04.26.1617 +0200]:
> I think there may be some confusion here, Mr. Krafft.  The comments
> I made above were not in reference to anything _you_ wrote.  They were
> in reference to the original edition of "The Linux Cookbook", by
> Michael Stutz, which was copyrighted in 2001.

Ha! But you did quote a sentence on my book and then started with
"This". I didn't actually read much further. ;)

No harm done.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"the scientific paper in its orthodox form does embody a totally
 mistaken conception, even a travesty, of the nature of scientific
 thought."
-- sir peter medawar


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Stephen Powell]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:24:52 -0400 (EDT), martin f krafft wrote:
> 
> Stephen Powell wrote:
>> This is hardly a new book.  In fact, it was written in the days of Woody.
>> (Woody -> Sarge -> Etch -> Lenny -> Squeeze)
> 
> It was written in the days of the sarge freeze and is entirely
> focused on sarge.
>>
>> And parts of it are obsolete.  But the author focuses on the core
>> stuff of Unix/Linux, and so most of it is still current. It's an
>> excellent guide for how to accomplish common computing tasks in
>> Linux,
> 
> Interesting analysis. ;)
>
> 
> I /wanted/ to focus on Debian and leave out the "core stuff of
> Unix/Linux" and "common computing tasks", because that's documented
> elsewhere.
> 
> It is true that in the last 5 years, some parts have been obsoleted,
> but I'd say most of it still applies.
> 
> Regardless, there's a need for a new edition. I am working on it.

I think there may be some confusion here, Mr. Krafft.  The comments
I made above were not in reference to anything _you_ wrote.  They were
in reference to the original edition of "The Linux Cookbook", by
Michael Stutz, which was copyrighted in 2001.

   http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_toc.html

I suggest that you go back and look more closely at my original post.

;-)

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Umarzuki Mochlis]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:24 PM, martin f krafft  wrote:

>
> Regardless, there's a need for a new edition. I am working on it.
>
>
that deserves a big hooray!

-- 
Regards,

Umarzuki Mochlis
http://debmal.my

Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Stephen Powell  [2010.04.21.1534 +0200]:
> This is hardly a new book.  In fact, it was written in the days of Woody.
> (Woody -> Sarge -> Etch -> Lenny -> Squeeze)

It was written in the days of the sarge freeze and is entirely
focused on sarge.

> And parts of it are obsolete.  But the author focuses on the core
> stuff of Unix/Linux, and so most of it is still current. It's an
> excellent guide for how to accomplish common computing tasks in
> Linux,

Interesting analysis. ;)

I /wanted/ to focus on Debian and leave out the "core stuff of
Unix/Linux" and "common computing tasks", because that's documented
elsewhere.

It is true that in the last 5 years, some parts have been obsoleted,
but I'd say most of it still applies.

Regardless, there's a need for a new edition. I am working on it.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
echo Prpv a\'rfg cnf har cvcr | tr Pacfghnrvp Cnpstuaeic


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Charles Kroeger  [2010.04.24.0045 
+0200]:
> Mr. Krafft, I have your "Debian System, concepts and techniques"
> a first editon from 2005. I think it's a good choice for a new
> Debian user.

Thank you.

> Why does a cow ride a surfboard on the cover, Is this widely understood?

The image came to me as I was dozing off to sleep. The history of
the Super-Cow in Debian is long and secret. I am afraid I cannot
spill the details. ;)

But given that Debian has Super-Cow Powers, I figured my book might
let you surf properly. That's why.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"we did rate the microsoft security researcher as less-bad than the
 people who prepare the carcasses for dissection in biology
 laboratories."
 -- michael moyer, executive editor of _popular science_


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Charles Kroeger]

>I am still working on a new edition, hopefully to be released with
>or shortly after Squeeze.

Mr. Krafft, I have your "Debian System, concepts and techniques" a first
editon from 2005. I think it's a good choice for a new Debian user.
I'm not a new Debian user as such, but you know the Buddha is still counting
his breath.

I especially liked the well organized beginning regarding history,
philosophy, and the Debian Organization community. An altogether elite group
if someone were to ask me what I thought.

Why does a cow ride a surfboard on the cover, Is this widely understood? 

-- 
C

 


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Stephen Powell]

On 21/04/10 06:15, surreal wrote:
> I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book written was
> way back in 2005 by Martin F.
> Krafft

This is hardly a new book.  In fact, it was written in the days of Woody.
(Woody -> Sarge -> Etch -> Lenny -> Squeeze)
And parts of it are obsolete.  But the author focuses on the core stuff of
Unix/Linux, and so most of it is still current.  It's an excellent guide
for how to accomplish common computing tasks in Linux, usually with a
command line tool, and the author has a clear bent toward Debian.

   http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_toc.html

This is the original version of the book, and it is free.  There's an
expanded 2nd Edition available in hard copy for a fee.

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Joe]

On 21/04/10 06:15, surreal wrote:

I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book written was
way back in 2005 by Martin F.
Krafft


After 2005, Etch and Lenny were released.

In 5 years its surprising no one thought to write a book specially for
debian lenny or etch ?? Why? Check out this amazon link -
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=debian&x=0&y=0

Dear Debian managers - I know you guys work hard and have got lots of wikis
(enough to confuse new comers), you must realize that a printed manual helps
users in many ways..esp when it comes to have a quick reference..

On the other hand, take a look at number of Ubuntu related titles -
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ubuntu&x=0&y=0

Why is this happening? We need more printed books, manuals, guides, howtos
on Debian. Enough reading those confusing and half constructed wikis!


Because it's not Windows? To sell a new version of Windows, which MS 
must do every few years or die, like most sharks and swimming, the user 
interface must keep changing.


Certainly, that happens to a lesser degree with Gnome and KDE, but 
neither are specific to Debian. What is specific is dpkg and its 
children apt and aptitude, and their mode of operation has changed only 
slightly over many years. There's not really that much else that is pure 
Debian.


My Lenny server does much the same work as the Etch, Sarge and Woody 
installations before it. Martin's book isn't that far out of date. I 
haven't needed to learn much more about the OS itself over that time, 
just about packages I hadn't used before. I've learned much more from 
Sid, much of it the hard way. No book will ever track Sid.


Ubuntu is intended to appeal to Windows users, and needs to mimic the 
rapid apparent change in user environment. Debian isn't and doesn't. It 
does evolve in functionality: sysvinit has gone from Sid, though 
considerable compatibility remains, and must continue for some time.


That will require a mention in future books, but again it isn't specific 
to Debian, and indeed Ubuntu features quite prominently in this 
particular story. The change came to Ubuntu (and Fedora) before it came 
to Sid, and Canonical was the major developer of Upstart, the sysvinit 
replacement. But if you need to understand Upstart, you're not a user, 
you're at least a hacker, if not a developer (posh word for hacker) and 
you're less reliant on the dead trees.


--
Joe


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[surreal]

The previous mail should be read as for Mr Krafft. My bad.

2010/4/21 surreal 

> Thank you Mr Kraft. I am eagerly waiting for the new book  to hit the
> market (and Debian Squeeze as stable release).
>
> 2010/4/21 martin f krafft 
>
> also sprach surreal  [2010.04.21.0715 +0200]:
>> > I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book
>> > written was way back in 2005 by Martin F.
>> > Krafft<
>> http://www.amazon.com/Martin-F.-Krafft/e/B001K892PK/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1271826559&sr=8-1
>> >
>> >
>> > After 2005, Etch and Lenny were released.
>> >
>> > In 5 years its surprising no one thought to write a book specially for
>> > debian lenny or etch ?? Why?
>>
>> Because writing non-fiction books is not a way to make enough money
>> for a living, and real life moves on.
>>
>> I am still working on a new edition, hopefully to be released with
>> or shortly after Squeeze.
>>
>> --
>>  .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
>> : :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
>> `. `'`   
>> http://people.debian.org/~madduck
>> http://vcs-pkg.org
>>  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
>>
>> "when in doubt, parenthesize. at the very least it will let some
>>  poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi."
>> -- larry wall
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Harshad Joshi
>



-- 
Harshad Joshi

Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[surreal]

Thank you Mr Kraft. I am eagerly waiting for the new book  to hit the market
(and Debian Squeeze as stable release).

2010/4/21 martin f krafft 

> also sprach surreal  [2010.04.21.0715 +0200]:
> > I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book
> > written was way back in 2005 by Martin F.
> > Krafft<
> http://www.amazon.com/Martin-F.-Krafft/e/B001K892PK/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1271826559&sr=8-1
> >
> >
> > After 2005, Etch and Lenny were released.
> >
> > In 5 years its surprising no one thought to write a book specially for
> > debian lenny or etch ?? Why?
>
> Because writing non-fiction books is not a way to make enough money
> for a living, and real life moves on.
>
> I am still working on a new edition, hopefully to be released with
> or shortly after Squeeze.
>
> --
>  .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
> : :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
> `. `'`   
> http://people.debian.org/~madduck
> http://vcs-pkg.org
>  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
>
> "when in doubt, parenthesize. at the very least it will let some
>  poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi."
> -- larry wall
>



-- 
Harshad Joshi

Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[martin f krafft]

also sprach surreal  [2010.04.21.0715 +0200]:
> I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book
> written was way back in 2005 by Martin F.
> Krafft
> 
> After 2005, Etch and Lenny were released.
> 
> In 5 years its surprising no one thought to write a book specially for
> debian lenny or etch ?? Why?

Because writing non-fiction books is not a way to make enough money
for a living, and real life moves on.

I am still working on a new edition, hopefully to be released with
or shortly after Squeeze.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft   Related projects:
: :'  :  proud Debian developer   http://debiansystem.info
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduckhttp://vcs-pkg.org
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
"when in doubt, parenthesize. at the very least it will let some
 poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi."
 -- larry wall


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Re: Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[Camaleón]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:45:54 +0530, surreal wrote:

> I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book written
> was way back in 2005 by Martin F.
> Krafft
> 
> 
> After 2005, Etch and Lenny were released.
> 
> In 5 years its surprising no one thought to write a book specially for
> debian lenny or etch ?? Why? 

(...)

There are updated books, but not all are written in English language:

http://www.debian.org/doc/books

In fact, before installing Debian I bought and read a printed book on my 
language (Spanish), easily available at any megastore or bookshop here in 
Spain.

True is that is not a very common situation. 

There are many other distros that lack for printed handbooks and guides 
aimed to newbies or starters and, when available, mostly are written in 
English, so I was very surprised (and delighted) to be able to buy a book 
for Debian -wrote in Spanish- without much effort :-)

Debian own guides and docs are also great and translated into many 
languges and can always be printed.

http://www.debian.org/doc/index.en.html

Greetings,

-- 
Camaleón


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Why are there no latest books written for Debian systems?

[surreal]

I wanted to buy a book about Debian, I found that the last book written was
way back in 2005 by Martin F.
Krafft


After 2005, Etch and Lenny were released.

In 5 years its surprising no one thought to write a book specially for
debian lenny or etch ?? Why? Check out this amazon link -
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=debian&x=0&y=0

Dear Debian managers - I know you guys work hard and have got lots of wikis
(enough to confuse new comers), you must realize that a printed manual helps
users in many ways..esp when it comes to have a quick reference..

On the other hand, take a look at number of Ubuntu related titles -
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ubuntu&x=0&y=0

Why is this happening? We need more printed books, manuals, guides, howtos
on Debian. Enough reading those confusing and half constructed wikis!


-- 
Harshad Joshi