Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 08:52:09AM -0600, Stackpole, Chris wrote: > > Stable. The fact people joke and make fun of how stable Debian is a > testament to the devs who make certain that Debian stable _is_ stable! Stable as in unchanging. No new packages are added to the "stable" branch whereas new packages are often added to the "unstable" branch, hence its name. Admins can just install stable and _know_ they'll have an unchanging system (except for security updates -- which are carefully patched against the existing same version). IOW, unstable is not called "unstable" because it is buggy and likely to crash. -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Received that personally, so forwarding to the list... Joe McDonagh wrote : > >>> Hi, I just read an interesting article about FAI [1] (Fully Automatic >>> Installer), which present itself as : >>> >>> "FAI - Fully Automatic Installation >>> >>> I've used FAI and didn't really like it, probably because it was kind of overkill for what I was doing, and I prefer to stick with the OS's native automatic installation software. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Joe McDonagh wrote: At the risk of starting a huge religious war: 1. Preseed vs. kickstart If you're only running at home or only a few machines at work, you're not going to run into this. Once you're done a RH install a .ks file is dropped under /root. You can now use this file to kickstart identical machines in PXE in a couple of minutes. There is no such automatic generation in Debian. You have to create the preseed by hand, and testing a preseed file isn't so fun as you need to pretty much reboot -> test over and over after you change stuff. 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration file is under here. In Debian, anything goes. 3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem. No, not yum vs. apt-get or aptitude or aptsomethingelse. To find information with dpkg seems difficult and unwieldy. Example: Say you want to find what package a specific file belongs to. With dpkg you should a dpkg-query -s to search the cache. I don't like that. I just want to know what package a given file on the filesystem belongs to. rpm -qf $FILE, done. The query system is general in rpm is simple yet robust. dpkg-query just doesn't do it for me. And I also don't like how there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that split up various functions of the dpkg system. Before all of Debian users pass a brick, this is mostly preference, except #1 is pretty hard to deny that RH makes your life a *lot* easier in that dept. Stefan Monnier wrote: it's pretty flawless. And I do agree about the ease of dist-> new dist in-place upgrades. I just find that my most common tasks are simply easier on RHEL/CentOS. I'm curious: which tasks are these, and in which way are they made easier? [ to give you some context: I only admin my own 4-5 home machines and have only vaguely used RedHat a bit some 10 years ago. I use Debian mostly because they better agreed with my view of the world back when I got to choose. ] Stefan 1. Preseed vs Kickstart There is a log of the install which one can use to configure Preseed. Also given some time the D-I team will surely cover this, if not already. From experience, if you take the time to configure your Preseed file correctly and proof it then one install is all that is needed and there is no need for constant re-testing and re-booting. 2. Configuration files in Debian are under "/etc" either filed there or under a subdirectory. 3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem dpkg-query does not search the cache. It gets its information from the dpkg database. "dpkg-query -S filename" will list the package that a file belongs to. How much simpler can it get using a console command! Is it not logical to split up subsystems so that you can chose which subsystems you want to install and which you don't. Modularity simplifies maintenance and troubleshooting. To avoid as you put it '...Debian users pass a brick...' making accurate statements would help. A good place to start looking for accurate information on Debian is the Debian website, Debian Wiki and books such as The Debian Bible. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
>Michael Pobega wrote : > > I am not sure if Debian has anything like Kickstart, but to be fair I > can't think of one time I would have needed it. Debootstrap/dd works > fine whenever I needed to quickly setup a system. Kickstart would just > be a superfluous app I'd never use. > Hi, I just read an interesting article about FAI [1] (Fully Automatic Installer), which present itself as : "FAI - Fully Automatic Installation FAI is an automated installation tool to install or deploy Debian GNU/Linux and other distributions on a bunch of different hosts or a Cluster. It's more flexible than other tools like kickstart for Red Hat, autoyast and alice for SuSE or Jumpstart for SUN Solaris. FAI can also be used for configuration management of a running system. You can take one or more virgin PCs, turn on the power and after a few minutes Linux is installed, configured and running on all your machines, without any interaction necessary." Maybe it's relevant to the _controversy_ debate ? And best news is: aptitude search fai p fai-client - Fully Automatic Installation client package p fai-doc- Documentation for FAI p fai-nfsroot- Fully Automatic Installation nfsroot package p fai-quickstart - Fully Automatic Installation quickstart package p fai-server - Fully Automatic Installation server package [1] http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai/ Tom -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Bill Thompson wrote: On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:33:16 -0800 Stephan wrote: It may be true that RH is too big to disappear entirely, but what about the inconsistency of their company focus? Many companies (mine included) have already been burnt because of the way RH redefined their distribution model. First it was free with optional paid support, then they dropped the desktop, then they went with licensed Enterprise support only (which is the only reason CentOS exists in the first place, to provide community support for RHE) and now they are refocusing on virtualization and who knows what support they are going to offer. They may not shut down, but past history has shown that you can not rely on the availability and support the company will offer tomorrow. That was exactly my point.� I'm not an open source fanboy mind you; without the corporate model, there wouldn't *be* any microcomputers. It simply important to remember that corporations rarely give products and services away out of charity, and ultimately revenue is easier to achieve by making increasing the quality of solutions to justify increasing the price tag, ultimately resulting in many products being sold on hype alone (coughcoughVista) and not their intrinsic value.� So long as CentOS exists under the corporate guardianship as a stepchild of Red Hat, it's features and functionality will reflect the corporate goals of RH.� That isn't necessarily a bad thing; but it is *some* thing to consider when making a final decision. Stephan You make a good point about supporting RH and their efforts to develop Linux. However, using CentOS does not support the company or their revenues. My understanding is that CentOS is an independent group and is not managed by RH directly. That's exactly what they claim on their website FAQ at centos.org. Having said that, it can only be beneficial to Red Hat for CentOS to operate, as it provides a stepping stone for new administrators in smaller companies trying to make decisions about their IT department to start with the 'free' version, and as their needs become more advanced and complicated, they'll start requiring consultants, technical support, etc. It's why Microsoft happily donates operating systems to schools; children grow up on Windows, and expect to be familiar with it as adults. In fact, I believe that using CentOS in conjunction with a licensed RHE installation violates the terms of the RH support agreement. That was the case when I looked into this several years ago, but RH may have since changed that agreement. If you truly feel that RH should be given financial support for their efforts and you can base your IT infrastructure on their business decisions, you should license RHE directly and not use one of the unofficial RH derivatives. My company could not make that decision, so we opted for Debian. Since then I have not needed to review support contracts and licensees for our Linux installations or worry much about the future of the distribution. I wouldn't Nor do I ;) I'd be posting in the Fedora mailing list otherwise. Stephan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Joe McDonagh wrote: 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration file is under here. In Debian, anything goes. And I think this is where preference comes in; generally, if I've installed program 'bumpersticker', I can bet that it's configuration files will be under /etc/bumpersticker/bumpersticker.conf . On the off chance that it's not, I can 'dpkg -L bumpersticker' and it's location is revealed. 3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem. No, not yum vs. apt-get or aptitude or aptsomethingelse. To find information with dpkg seems difficult and unwieldy. Example: Say you want to find what package a specific file belongs to. With dpkg you should a dpkg-query -s to search the cache. I don't like that. I just want to know what package a given file on the filesystem belongs to. rpm -qf $FILE, done. The query system is general in rpm is simple yet robust. dpkg-query just doesn't do it for me. And I also don't like how there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that split up various functions of the dpkg system. apt-cache search FILE. I just now took a look at my system , and saw a file /sbin/mii-tool and thought "hrm, what the heck does that do?" "apt-cache search mii-tool" output: "net-tools - The NET-3 networking toolkit" No muss, no fuss. Of course, you could always try the following command Google- mii-tool Debian The first hit listed "Debian -- Details of package net-tools in lenny" I've found many unfamiliar package descriptions to be as cryptic as the file names themselves, so I figure if I'm going to have to hit the search engine anyway I'll cut out the middle man. And there's the most effective search here: http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_contents Before all of Debian users pass a brick, this is mostly preference, except #1 is pretty hard to deny that RH makes your life a *lot* easier in that dept. Better verses worse debates are often ugly. Comparing any Linux distro is like comparing fuji apples to golden delicious. I'm just pointing out that a system always gets easier to use when you become more familiar with how it works. Stephan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:33:16 -0800 Stephan wrote: > > Bill Thompson wrote:On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:06:56 -0500 >> Joe McDonagh wrote: >>> >>> And to the people who give a schpiel about what if RH shuts down >>> tomorrow, not going to happen. Someone will buy RH before they get >>> shut down. They are the single biggest kernel committers and their >>> workforce is filled with some of the most talented engineers in >>> the open source world. >> >> It may be true that RH is too big to disappear entirely, but what >> about the inconsistency of their company focus? Many companies (mine >> included) have already been burnt because of the way RH redefined >> their distribution model. First it was free with optional paid >> support, then they dropped the desktop, then they went with licensed >> Enterprise support only (which is the only reason CentOS exists in >> the first place, to provide community support for RHE) and now they >> are refocusing on virtualization and who knows what support they are >> going to offer. They may not shut down, but past history has shown >> that you can not rely on the availability and support the company >> will offer tomorrow. > > That was exactly my point. I'm not an open source fanboy mind you; > without the corporate model, there wouldn't *be* any microcomputers. > It simply important to remember that corporations rarely give > products and services away out of charity, and ultimately revenue is > easier to achieve by making increasing the quality of solutions to > justify increasing the price tag, ultimately resulting in many > products being sold on hype alone (coughcoughVista) and not their > intrinsic value. So long as CentOS exists under the corporate > guardianship as a stepchild of Red Hat, it's features and > functionality will reflect the corporate goals of RH. That isn't > necessarily a bad thing; but it is *some* thing to consider when > making a final decision. > > Stephan You make a good point about supporting RH and their efforts to develop Linux. However, using CentOS does not support the company or their revenues. My understanding is that CentOS is an independent group and is not managed by RH directly. In fact, I believe that using CentOS in conjunction with a licensed RHE installation violates the terms of the RH support agreement. That was the case when I looked into this several years ago, but RH may have since changed that agreement. If you truly feel that RH should be given financial support for their efforts and you can base your IT infrastructure on their business decisions, you should license RHE directly and not use one of the unofficial RH derivatives. My company could not make that decision, so we opted for Debian. Since then I have not needed to review support contracts and licensees for our Linux installations or worry much about the future of the distribution. -- Bill Thompson bi...@mahagonny.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 02:06:29PM -0500, Joe McDonagh wrote: [snip] > I will comment in-line because I don't want to risk causing your brain > to asplode from the rage associated with people who top-post. > > Steve Lamb wrote: >> Joe McDonagh wrote: >> >>> At the risk of starting a huge religious war: >>> >> >> About top posting vs. actually formatting your messages intelligently? >> > > Unless the debian-list rules state top posting is 'illegal' then I will > continue to top post. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, [potentially flamatory part removed] Not a policy. But usually I'm too lazy to edit messages of top-posters in a way that will leave relevant context. So I end up just trimming away all the potential context you left below. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 09:48:27AM -0500, Joe McDonagh wrote: > At the risk of starting a huge religious war: > > 1. Preseed vs. kickstart > > If you're only running at home or only a few machines at work, you're > not going to run into this. Once you're done a RH install a .ks file is > dropped under /root. You can now use this file to kickstart identical > machines in PXE in a couple of minutes. There is no such automatic > generation in Debian. RTFM http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apbs03.html.en An alternative method is to do a manual installation and then, after rebooting, use the debconf-get-selections from the debconf-utils package to dump both the debconf database and the installer's cdebconf database to a single file: $ debconf-get-selections --installer > file $ debconf-get-selections >> file However, a file generated in this manner will have some items that should not be preseeded, and the example file is a better starting place for most users. > You have to create the preseed by hand, and > testing a preseed file isn't so fun as you need to pretty much reboot -> > test over and over after you change stuff. When I needed to mess with kickstart a while ago I had to spend a number of troubleshooting cycles just to get the right list of packages to add. There's a nice place you can list them. But the installer will not resolve dependencies :-( Furthermore, I couldn't figure out a way to just ass an extra yum source and also get packages from there. As a result we had to do that in a post-install script. At the moment we have a very complex logic in a post install script. With preseed I just feed it an extra packages source, the list of packages I really want, and that's all. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best ICQ# 16849754 || friend -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 02:06:29PM -0500, Joe McDonagh wrote: > Hey Steve, I love that just by typing up here above e-mails I can make > smug users like you go postal. I feel powerful. > Actually, bottom posting is common in e-mail etiquette. A: Because it's easier to read Q: Why should I bottom post? http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html (I know this link refers to Usenet groups, but the same etiquette applies to mailing lists) That aside, I don't think top posting is a good representation of someone as stupid. Just uninformed. >>> 1. Preseed vs. kickstart >>> >>> If you're only running at home or only a few machines at work, you're >>> not going to run into this. Once you're done a RH install a .ks file is >>> dropped under /root. You can now use this file to kickstart identical >>> machines in PXE in a couple of minutes. There is no such automatic >>> generation in Debian. >>> >> >> [...] >> I am not sure if Debian has anything like Kickstart, but to be fair I can't think of one time I would have needed it. Debootstrap/dd works fine whenever I needed to quickly setup a system. Kickstart would just be a superfluous app I'd never use. >>> 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir >>> >>> In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration >>> file is under here. In Debian, anything goes. >>> >> >> /etc/default... But traditionally, yeah, /etc/ is where config files go. >> > ooohhh really? Keen observation Steve! Thanks for that crumb kind sir. > Got any other gems? Actually, I find Debian to be pretty concise in where it stores configuration files; I've never had trouble finding one. If it's not in /etc it's in /etc/default -- Debian actually sticks religiously to the FHS, which makes things fairly easy to locate. > You can have a sane conversation about this vs that without talking to > someone like they are mildly retarded. > That'll be hard to have if you're feeding the fire too. -- http://pobega.wordpress.com http://identica/pobega signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Joe McDonagh wrote: > know better. Also, I was under the (right) impression that dpkg-query -S > (dpkg -S) is a string search, which is a different operation than rpm > -qf, though they can yield the same results. Not that it makes a practical difference. > Unless the debian-list rules state top posting is 'illegal' then I will > continue to top post. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if you > want to insult me, do it with a little more spice than calling me stupid > in a roundabout way. Might want to check the list archives on that before going too much further. Given the relatively hands-off approach the mods take with D-U a lot of D-U runs on convention. Run afoul of that at your own peril. > dpkg --get-selections actually I had never heard of til now. I ran it > and it told me NOTHING. What packages are installed woo. I looked at the > man page and that's apparently its function. If you think that's all > kickstart does then obviously, I am not the ignorant one. Nope, just don't see the need for kickstart when other methods suffice. BTW, you missed the point where --set-selections is the reverse of --get-selections. Thanks. > Tell me, where in a preseed do you set up LVM over RAID through d-i? Or > how about you recall for me how recent the addition of automatic raid is > to partman-auto? Ask me if it really matters to me when we've been going off disc-images for about as many years. Any case where disc images don't work kickstart would not either. Actually, I take that back, disc images work in places were kickstart cannot. > RH had been doing this for years, to top it off they > drop a kickstart file for you under /root. I'm still actually kind of > appalled that a list-nerd is insulting me yet tells me to use a command > that doesn't even give appropriate info (dpkg --get-selections). Gives you the packages for that particular installation. Throw it into a text file, set them on another install with --set-selections and, surprise there Keanu, the exact same packages are installed! You may say "whoa" now. >>> 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir >>> In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration >>> file is under here. In Debian, anything goes. >> /etc/default... But traditionally, yeah, /etc/ is where config >> files go. > ooohhh really? Keen observation Steve! Thanks for that crumb kind sir. > Got any other gems? Hey, I'm not the one who lamented configuration files being in /etc of all places. Really, they moved some, SOME, locations of /etc into a new directory for you and this is news? grep -r, man! Cripes. /etc/sysconfig/network /etc/network o, that was hard. /etc/config/sendmail /etc/exim4 Yikes, who'da thunk it? Geez, now that I look at what's in there it has less than /etc/default. /etc/ is where the standard configuration goes. Emphasis on S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D. /etc/default is where Debian specific defaults (see what they did there, sparky?) go. > I would say I am pretty handy with the command-line, but then again, > top-posters are sub-human dummies. And people say top-posters can't learn. Have a cookie. > Wow Steve 10 whole years! zomg I didn't even know Leenuckz existed in > 1999. That's the last millenia! Innit! Of course you took that as epeen waving when it was just pointing out that clearly it is possible to do without dpkg-query just fine. > If you think writing your own preseed is easier than just consuming a > file already written for you with what you chose during an install then > you are delusional. No, I just prefer other methods which are far simpler. Identical hardware? Image. Disparate hardware? dpkg --get/--set-selections. Virtual hardware? Image. > You can have a sane conversation about this vs that without talking to > someone like they are mildly retarded. Sorry, the difference between the mildly retarded and someone who hasn't figured out the basics is that the mildly retarded may actually be incapable of learning. Someone who hasn't learned the basics is just a tool and deserves the ridicule and mocking because they are clearly capable, just too damn lazy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
* Steve Lamb 06.03.2009 > Joe McDonagh wrote: > > dpkg-query just doesn't do it for me. And I also don't like how > > there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that split up various functions of the > > dpkg system. > > You know, I never even heard of dpkg-query until you just brought it up. > I've been using Debian for 10 flippin' years. For those 10 years I have used > four commands in dpkg. > > dpkg -s - show a package's description > dpkg -S - search for a pattern in packages > dpkg -l - list all packages > dpkg -L - list all files in a package > > That is pretty much the extent that I have to know about dpkg without > referring to --help once every, o, 3-4 years. And with "apt-file" you can search for files in packages which aren't installed yet. Another good program is "debmany" from the package "debian-goodies". With it you can read the manpages and the files in "/usr/share/doc/" of packages which also aren't installed. I like these two programs because I can read much things before I install a package. Just my 2¢ Michael -- Monolog - one person talking to himself, dialog - two people talking to themselves. -Shaike Ofir- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Hey Steve, I love that just by typing up here above e-mails I can make
smug users like you go postal. I feel powerful.
That being said, I like learning things on lists. I joined the list to
learn mostly. I used dpkg-query before thinking that was the query
subsystem. I believe I got that out of a 'debian system' book, but then
again you can't retain all information. Now I have been schooled and
know better. Also, I was under the (right) impression that dpkg-query -S
(dpkg -S) is a string search, which is a different operation than rpm
-qf, though they can yield the same results.
I will comment in-line because I don't want to risk causing your brain
to asplode from the rage associated with people who top-post.
Steve Lamb wrote:
Joe McDonagh wrote:
At the risk of starting a huge religious war:
About top posting vs. actually formatting your messages intelligently?
Unless the debian-list rules state top posting is 'illegal' then I will
continue to top post. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if you
want to insult me, do it with a little more spice than calling me stupid
in a roundabout way.
1. Preseed vs. kickstart
If you're only running at home or only a few machines at work, you're
not going to run into this. Once you're done a RH install a .ks file is
dropped under /root. You can now use this file to kickstart identical
machines in PXE in a couple of minutes. There is no such automatic
generation in Debian.
I take it you've never heard of dpkg --set-selections and dpkg
--get-selections?
Actually, I use debconf-get-selections to get files that I name
$package.preseed and they sit in puppet. Puppet uses them to preseed
packages for me. Like magic.
dpkg --get-selections actually I had never heard of til now. I ran it
and it told me NOTHING. What packages are installed woo. I looked at the
man page and that's apparently its function. If you think that's all
kickstart does then obviously, I am not the ignorant one.
Tell me, where in a preseed do you set up LVM over RAID through d-i? Or
how about you recall for me how recent the addition of automatic raid is
to partman-auto? RH had been doing this for years, to top it off they
drop a kickstart file for you under /root. I'm still actually kind of
appalled that a list-nerd is insulting me yet tells me to use a command
that doesn't even give appropriate info (dpkg --get-selections).
2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir
In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration
file is under here. In Debian, anything goes.
/etc/default... But traditionally, yeah, /etc/ is where config files go.
ooohhh really? Keen observation Steve! Thanks for that crumb kind sir.
Got any other gems?
3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem.
No, not yum vs. apt-get or aptitude or aptsomethingelse. To find
information with dpkg seems difficult and unwieldy. Example: Say you
want to find what package a specific file belongs to. With dpkg you
should a dpkg-query -s to search the cache. I don't like that.
Then learn your commands?
I would say I am pretty handy with the command-line, but then again,
top-posters are sub-human dummies.
I just want to know what package a given file on the filesystem belongs
to. rpm -qf $FILE, done. The query system is general in rpm is simple yet
robust.
{g...@teleute:~} dpkg -S `which mutt`
mutt: /usr/bin/mutt
{g...@teleute:/lib} dpkg -S libnss_files-2.7.so
libc6-i686: /lib/i686/cmov/libnss_files-2.7.so
libc6-xen: /lib/i686/nosegneg/libnss_files-2.7.so
libc6: /lib/libnss_files-2.7.so
Yes even though it's a different operation it suffices. (well,
dpkg-query did).
dpkg-query just doesn't do it for me. And I also don't like how
there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that split up various functions of the
dpkg system.
You know, I never even heard of dpkg-query until you just brought it up.
I've been using Debian for 10 flippin' years. For those 10 years I have used
four commands in dpkg.
dpkg -s - show a package's description
dpkg -S - search for a pattern in packages
dpkg -l - list all packages
dpkg -L - list all files in a package
That is pretty much the extent that I have to know about dpkg without
referring to --help once every, o, 3-4 years.
Wow Steve 10 whole years! zomg I didn't even know Leenuckz existed in
1999. That's the last millenia!
Before all of Debian users pass a brick, this is mostly preference,
except #1 is pretty hard to deny that RH makes your life a *lot* easier
in that dept.
Nope, pretty much all preference, and based out of ignorance at that.
If you think writing your own preseed is easier than just consuming a
file already written for you with what you chose during an install then
you are delusional.
You can have a sane conversation about this vs that without talking to
someone like th
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Joe McDonagh wrote:
> At the risk of starting a huge religious war:
About top posting vs. actually formatting your messages intelligently?
> 1. Preseed vs. kickstart
> If you're only running at home or only a few machines at work, you're
> not going to run into this. Once you're done a RH install a .ks file is
> dropped under /root. You can now use this file to kickstart identical
> machines in PXE in a couple of minutes. There is no such automatic
> generation in Debian.
I take it you've never heard of dpkg --set-selections and dpkg
--get-selections?
> 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir
> In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration
> file is under here. In Debian, anything goes.
/etc/default... But traditionally, yeah, /etc/ is where config files go.
> 3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem.
> No, not yum vs. apt-get or aptitude or aptsomethingelse. To find
> information with dpkg seems difficult and unwieldy. Example: Say you
> want to find what package a specific file belongs to. With dpkg you
> should a dpkg-query -s to search the cache. I don't like that.
Then learn your commands?
> I just want to know what package a given file on the filesystem belongs
> to. rpm -qf $FILE, done. The query system is general in rpm is simple yet
> robust.
{g...@teleute:~} dpkg -S `which mutt`
mutt: /usr/bin/mutt
{g...@teleute:/lib} dpkg -S libnss_files-2.7.so
libc6-i686: /lib/i686/cmov/libnss_files-2.7.so
libc6-xen: /lib/i686/nosegneg/libnss_files-2.7.so
libc6: /lib/libnss_files-2.7.so
> dpkg-query just doesn't do it for me. And I also don't like how
> there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that split up various functions of the
> dpkg system.
You know, I never even heard of dpkg-query until you just brought it up.
I've been using Debian for 10 flippin' years. For those 10 years I have used
four commands in dpkg.
dpkg -s - show a package's description
dpkg -S - search for a pattern in packages
dpkg -l - list all packages
dpkg -L - list all files in a package
That is pretty much the extent that I have to know about dpkg without
referring to --help once every, o, 3-4 years.
> Before all of Debian users pass a brick, this is mostly preference,
> except #1 is pretty hard to deny that RH makes your life a *lot* easier
> in that dept.
Nope, pretty much all preference, and based out of ignorance at that.
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Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Joe McDonagh wrote: > Most claims about RH are the "in the beginning" type and it's like do > people *really* still hold that against them? They still use RPM? Of course I really still hold it against them. BTW, don't top post. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 06:48, Joe McDonagh wrote: > At the risk of starting a huge religious war: > 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir > > In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration file > is under here. In Debian, anything goes. eh, I think this just what you get used to. Every time I get on a RH-based machine and need to change a conf file, I get terribly lost. > 3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem. > > No, not yum vs. apt-get or aptitude or aptsomethingelse. To find information > with dpkg seems difficult and unwieldy. Example: Say you want to find what > package a specific file belongs to. With dpkg you should a dpkg-query -s to > search the cache. I don't like that. I just want to know what package a > given file on the filesystem belongs to. rpm -qf $FILE, done. I use dpkg -S for that, personally; and dpkg -L to list the files that belong to a package. AFAIK, dpkg can do just about anything dpkg-query and dpkg-deb can do (it acts as a frontend to those commands). Anyway, I don't see that much difference between dpkg -S, dpkg-query -S, and rpm -qf. > The query > system is general in rpm is simple yet robust. dpkg-query just doesn't do it > for me. And I also don't like how there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that > split up various functions of the dpkg system. I admit I haven't used rpm much at all, but dpkg has always done what I needed. Cheers, Kelly Clowers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Steve Lamb wrote: Raleigh Guevarra wrote: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? When I chose Debian, CentOS didn't exist. Steve, I agree. I use Debian long time, I use desktop Linux, only sever I use is file and printer, I used to Debian, Debian fast, Debian has unstable, testing and stable for me to play with. Red Hat slow to install and configure and you not get updates unless you pay/not free, no love, so I not use Red Hat, CentOS same thing but software is free, but, no CentOS when I start using Linux and CentOS slow to install and configure, if I want to use RPM type distro I would use CentOS, it's good RPM type distro, Yum not to bad, but Debian all around better distro for me, fast to install, fast to configure and much more software to make me happy. -- Jimmy Johnson Bakersfield, CA. U.S.A. Registered Linux User #380263 K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
The FHS doesn't have much to do with what I am talking about. IIRC both distros follow the standard, but it doesn't actually mandate much beneath /etc. 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration file is under here. In Debian, anything goes. I thought Debian[2] was supposed to be FHS[2]-compliant, although i'd expect a webserver to have its data files in /srv/www[3] instead of /var/www. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/FilesystemHierarchyStandard [2] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#ETCHOSTSPECIFICSYSTEMCONFIGURATION [3] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SRVDATAFORSERVICESPROVIDEDBYSYSTEM Nuno Magalhães LU#484677 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
> 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir > > In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration file > is under here. In Debian, anything goes. I thought Debian[2] was supposed to be FHS[2]-compliant, although i'd expect a webserver to have its data files in /srv/www[3] instead of /var/www. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/FilesystemHierarchyStandard [2] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#ETCHOSTSPECIFICSYSTEMCONFIGURATION [3] http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SRVDATAFORSERVICESPROVIDEDBYSYSTEM Nuno Magalhães LU#484677 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
At the risk of starting a huge religious war: 1. Preseed vs. kickstart If you're only running at home or only a few machines at work, you're not going to run into this. Once you're done a RH install a .ks file is dropped under /root. You can now use this file to kickstart identical machines in PXE in a couple of minutes. There is no such automatic generation in Debian. You have to create the preseed by hand, and testing a preseed file isn't so fun as you need to pretty much reboot -> test over and over after you change stuff. 2. The disarray of configuration files vs centralized system config dir In RH you have /etc/sysconfig. Almost every single system configuration file is under here. In Debian, anything goes. 3. RPM vs DPKG query subsystem. No, not yum vs. apt-get or aptitude or aptsomethingelse. To find information with dpkg seems difficult and unwieldy. Example: Say you want to find what package a specific file belongs to. With dpkg you should a dpkg-query -s to search the cache. I don't like that. I just want to know what package a given file on the filesystem belongs to. rpm -qf $FILE, done. The query system is general in rpm is simple yet robust. dpkg-query just doesn't do it for me. And I also don't like how there are a bunch of dpkg-* files that split up various functions of the dpkg system. Before all of Debian users pass a brick, this is mostly preference, except #1 is pretty hard to deny that RH makes your life a *lot* easier in that dept. Stefan Monnier wrote: it's pretty flawless. And I do agree about the ease of dist-> new dist in-place upgrades. I just find that my most common tasks are simply easier on RHEL/CentOS. I'm curious: which tasks are these, and in which way are they made easier? [ to give you some context: I only admin my own 4-5 home machines and have only vaguely used RedHat a bit some 10 years ago. I use Debian mostly because they better agreed with my view of the world back when I got to choose. ] Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
"First it was free" is analogous to saying "In the beginning..." They still have a 'desktop' OS for the enterprise, and I wouldn't say they're re-focusing their direction on virtualization at all. Virtualization is a reality for all OSs, so that's like if you would have said "MS is refocusing their direction on virtualization" when their Virtual Server came out. It's just another piece of the puzzle for the enterprise. Most claims about RH are the "in the beginning" type and it's like do people *really* still hold that against them? That was like what, 7 years ago? They focus on the enterprise and any change in their business direction is because of a change in enterprise computing, simple as that. Bill Thompson wrote: On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:06:56 -0500 Joe McDonagh wrote: And to the people who give a schpiel about what if RH shuts down tomorrow, not going to happen. Someone will buy RH before they get shut down. They are the single biggest kernel committers and their workforce is filled with some of the most talented engineers in the open source world. It may be true that RH is too big to disappear entirely, but what about the inconsistency of their company focus? Many companies (mine included) have already been burnt because of the way RH redefined their distribution model. First it was free with optional paid support, then they dropped the desktop, then they went with licensed Enterprise support only (which is the only reason CentOS exists in the first place, to provide community support for RHE) and now they are refocusing on virtualization and who knows what support they are going to offer. They may not shut down, but past history has shown that you can not rely on the availability and support the company will offer tomorrow. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Raleigh Guevarra wrote: > Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? When I chose Debian, CentOS didn't exist. -- Steve C. Lamb | But who can decide what they dream PGP Key: 1FC01004 | and dream I do ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
erratum, was: Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Friday 06 March 2009 08:24:10 Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Friday 06 March 2009 04:17:09 Alan Hutchinson wrote: > > I am trying to install DEBIAN LENNY beta 2 > > Why use a beta? Why not use the > s/just-released newly released/newly released > stable, Debian 5 aka Lenny? :-( Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Friday 06 March 2009 04:17:09 Alan Hutchinson wrote: > I am trying to install DEBIAN LENNY beta 2 Why use a beta? Why not use the just-released newly released stable, Debian 5 aka Lenny? Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 04:17:09 + Alan Hutchinson wrote: > Hi people I am trying to install DEBIAN LENNY beta 2 on a system that has > the promise chip for raid 0,and i keep on getting "boot failure" what > would be the cause of this and also I would like to know how to format my > drives that has the debian lenny O/S on it,and try and make a clean > start,thank in advance. Please don't hijack threads; start a new thread for an unrelated questions. Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Hi people I am trying to install DEBIAN LENNY beta 2 on a system that has the promise chip for raid 0,and i keep on getting "boot failure" what would be the cause of this and also I would like to know how to format my drives that has the debian lenny O/S on it,and try and make a clean start,thank in advance. On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 1:10 AM, Raleigh Guevarra wrote: > To All Web Hosting Providers, > > > > I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of > developers. > > > > Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? > > > > Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Raleigh > >
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
> it's pretty flawless. And I do agree about the ease of dist-> new dist > in-place upgrades. I just find that my most common tasks are simply easier > on RHEL/CentOS. I'm curious: which tasks are these, and in which way are they made easier? [ to give you some context: I only admin my own 4-5 home machines and have only vaguely used RedHat a bit some 10 years ago. I use Debian mostly because they better agreed with my view of the world back when I got to choose. ] Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:06:56 -0500 Joe McDonagh wrote: > And to the people who give a schpiel about what if RH shuts down > tomorrow, not going to happen. Someone will buy RH before they get > shut down. They are the single biggest kernel committers and their > workforce is filled with some of the most talented engineers in the > open source world. > It may be true that RH is too big to disappear entirely, but what about the inconsistency of their company focus? Many companies (mine included) have already been burnt because of the way RH redefined their distribution model. First it was free with optional paid support, then they dropped the desktop, then they went with licensed Enterprise support only (which is the only reason CentOS exists in the first place, to provide community support for RHE) and now they are refocusing on virtualization and who knows what support they are going to offer. They may not shut down, but past history has shown that you can not rely on the availability and support the company will offer tomorrow. -- Bill Thompson bi...@mahagonny.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Because I am a masochist. Just kidding. I inherited an infrastructure as part of my latest job in operations. I can tell you that from a SysAdmin/Ops Engineer point of view, Debian and its derivatives are not as quick to get to a nice automated infrastructure and require a lot of up-front glue to get things going the way you want. I am not talking just web however. Once they do work though, it's pretty flawless. And I do agree about the ease of dist-> new dist in-place upgrades. I just find that my most common tasks are simply easier on RHEL/CentOS. And to the people who give a schpiel about what if RH shuts down tomorrow, not going to happen. Someone will buy RH before they get shut down. They are the single biggest kernel committers and their workforce is filled with some of the most talented engineers in the open source world. Raleigh Guevarra wrote: To All Web Hosting Providers, I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of developers. Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. Raleigh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
RE: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
>From: Raleigh Guevarra [mailto:death...@yahoo.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:11 PM >Subject: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS? > [snip] >Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? [snip] I /really/ like CentOS. However, I choose Debian over CentOS for a few reasons. Apt. YUM is getting better but I hit dependency hell only a few months ago with it. No admin should /ever/ deal with that. Package caching. When you have dozens of servers, blindly doing updates is a bad idea but updating individually can be near impossible. Setting up a package repository so that packages you want get updated when you want them to is something that 'unnamed north American vendors' make you pay for and it isn't the easiest of tasks in CentOS. It is trivial w/ Debian (I am aware of at _least_ two guides being written and commented on within this mailing list within the last 6 months). A side bonus to this, instead of pulling X MB of data for each update on each server and wasting bandwidth, a Debian package cacher pulls once and shares with the rest. I personally have not found a solid way of doing this within the YUM/RPM world. An extra side bonus, which is faster your bandwidth or your network speed? Having 30+ servers pull X MB from the internet, or one pulling from the internet and the rest pulling over the network? I love my package cacher. :-) Smaller install base. The last thing you need on a production server is a bunch of unneeded packages. Fewer packages means less updates, less things to break, and more time for you to do productive tasks. Flexibility and recovery. You really have to plan for things to go wrong. Bad drives, bad motherboard, bad whatever you will come into work one day with a server down (hopefully you have planned this in advance and your users will never know). Debian is much more flexible in my opinion when it comes to dealing with outages, backups, and recovery. Combine the above mentioned package cacher and a good backup of data and I can do (have done and will do) /a complete production ready/ rebuild on a completely different system in sub 15 minutes. That is base install, all updates, all software, and ready to go with the users never knowing they were on a different system. While I can do most of the same things with CentOS, I just have not ever been able to get the installer and updates that fast. My average time still sits between 35-40 minutes for a fresh rebuild of CentOS. Maybe 30 minutes isn't a big deal for you, but it has been for me. Stable. The fact people joke and make fun of how stable Debian is a testament to the devs who make certain that Debian stable _is_ stable! Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Have fun! ~Stack~
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 06:45:35PM -0700, ghe wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Raleigh Guevarra wrote: > > > Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? > Not to host dozens of websites - but to host crucial servers. Minimalism: a Debian base install is tiny compared to a RH/CentOS base. You can add individual packages easily. In my (limited) experience, a RH base may pull in 900M (including unnecessary X Windows) of packages versus Debian's 200M. Security: As the admin, you can control services more readily. [Though Debian base install does include NFS, which you'll want to remove]. dpkg --get-selections > myfilelist ... move to different machine ... dpkg --set-selections < myfilelist which will work pretty well even if you move architectures between, say, Sun and x86 :) All IMHO - Just my 0.02 Euros Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > Because Debian sounds cooler. CentOS sounds like it's worth a cent. > > This one should be saved for the marketing people. They would definitely go for this one. That is one department less to convince. :) -- Please reply to this list only. I read this list on its corresponding newsgroup on gmane.org. Replies sent to my email address are just filtered to a folder in my mailbox and get periodically deleted without ever having been read. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
For me, even if I am a Debian user and admin. I still choosed Cent OS? Why: Not sure if cPanel would be ok with Debian. But, if Debian will surely release a note or cPanel? an article about it, I will definitely switch my server anytime! :) -- Louie Miranda (lmira...@gmail.com) http://www.louiemiranda.net Quality Web Hosting - www.axishift.com Pinoy Web Hosting, Web Hosting Philippines On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Carl Fink wrote: > CentOS didn't exist when I started using Debian, and I'm used to it now. > -- > Carl Fink nitpick...@nitpicking.com > > Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations! > Stupid mistakes you can correct! > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > >
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
CentOS didn't exist when I started using Debian, and I'm used to it now. -- Carl Fink nitpick...@nitpicking.com Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations! Stupid mistakes you can correct! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Bill Thompson wrote: > > +Reputation > All the cool kids use Debian. Debian/rules ;) > +1 http://blogs.pcmag.com/atwork/2008/07/why_debians_still_a_great_distro_choice.php http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/talk.html I could post links all day but it seems pointless. Debian is THE rock solid distro by which all others are judged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#Debian-based vs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux-based let your CIO do the math. -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com ~ Netiquette ~ http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/dec99/pirillo1.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Raleigh Guevarra wrote: > Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? Apt over RPM -- works more reliably. I like Debian's (almost always) putting configs in /etc -- easier to find and keep backed up. The array of distro sets (stable, testing, etc.) gives a choice of reliable to bleeding edge. Different features are appropriate for different jobs, and Debian provides more than a "one size fits all". In tidy packages. I never considered CentOS because it didn't exist at the time. I moved from RedHat through Gentoo to Debian. They're well done distros, but I've rarely missed them. I guess all this boils down to my experience that Debian's more reliable, and it's more rational and easier to administer and troubleshoot. > Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. How about emotional? I like Debian's attitude :-) - -- Glenn English g...@slsware.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmvLr8ACgkQ04yQfZbbTLaPhQCePvLIKL/nEmKZuqsuG1txVEaP 0REAnRB7zKw+Ppqa0CFSc5SCN+Ffy8ts =BN9S -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:10:41 -0800 (PST) Raleigh Guevarra wrote: > To All Web Hosting Providers, > > I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of > developers. > Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? > > Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly > appreciated. > > Raleigh > + Stability. Debian packages are tested through a "unstable->testing->stable" release cycle and are not dependent on a time-table for release. + Reliability. Debian is 100% community based and not reliant on a "prominent North American Enterprise Linux vendor" that may change their distribution or development strategy due to market forces. As long as there are developers interested in Debian, there will be a Debian system to use. +Package management and administration tools. Covered by Oliver Schneider +Reputation All the cool kids use Debian. Debian/rules ;) -- Bill Thompson bi...@mahagonny.com signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Raleigh Guevarra wrote: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? To give a serious answer: because I know how to use Debian. Choosing CentOS would lower my productivity because I'm not familiar with it. Time spent on learning it is lost money since "time == money" ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Debian vs CentOS http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/840600.html Personally, I like the concept behind Debian. CentOS is ultimately dependent on Red Hat, while Debian is essentially self-contained. Should Red Hat shutter their doors tomorrow, CentOS would eventually become another dead distro. With the advancement and popularity of Ubuntu (based on Debian,) Debian users have both an advanced core group of users and developers to rely on (namely, the thousands of people who collaborate on Debian packages) as well as a thriving casual user base (the Ubuntu forums are extremely lively and helpful.) Still, if I were in your shoes I'd do a test installation of both CentOS and Debian on a couple of my target machines to see which distro's glitches and bugs are easier to live with. Stephan Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Raleigh Guevarra wrote: To All Web Hosting Providers, I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of developers. Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. Because Debian sounds cooler. CentOS sounds like it's worth a cent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
> I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of > developers. > > Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? > > Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. - The superior package management system and its numerous frontends - Painless upgrades to the next major release - No crippled (+ slow) Perl :) - The community, or rather the communities // Oliver -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
Raleigh Guevarra wrote: To All Web Hosting Providers, I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of developers. Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. Because Debian sounds cooler. CentOS sounds like it's worth a cent. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Why did you chose Debian over CentOS?
To All Web Hosting Providers, I need your help to prove and defend Debian to the CIO and a dozen of developers. Why did you chose Debian over CentOS to host dozens of websites? Both technical and logical inputs or explanation is greatly appreciated. Raleigh
