Re: bi (Please stop it)
On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Leslie Mikesell wrote: The issue relevant to this group is: what editor should someone expect to find on a system's boot/rescue disk? That someone presumably being a person with enough unix experience to recover from the usual problems that can make your machine fail to boot. The last thing you need at that point (especially if this is a server for many people) is a surprise from the editor or to have to learn a new one. So why is the issue that _seems_ to be relevant to the group (or at least the posters within) the minimization of the number of keystrokes or the level of injury supposedly inflicted by its interface? Besides, wouldn't a discussion of an appropiate boot/rescue disk editor be better suited for the developer's list? It would seem to me that they are the ones responsible for developing the actual boot disks. I agree with Joey's original message: let's let the editor debate rest a bit, folks, or give it focus and a new thread name. Thanks, Pete -- Peter J. Templin, Jr. Client Services Analyst Computer Communication Services tel: (717) 524-1590 Bucknell University [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: bi (Please stop it)
On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Pete Templin wrote:
I agree with Joey's original message: let's let the editor debate rest a
bit, folks, or give it focus and a new thread name.
i disagree. I see two valuable results from the thread:
1. people get to show off neat tricks that they've learnt/figured out
with their favourite editor, whether it be vi or emacs or something
else. This is good because by writing it in a form for other
people to understand they achieve a greater understanding for
themself...teaching others is a great way to learn.
2. people get to see useful features, tips tricks, etc for the editors -
possibly helping them to learn how to use their editor more effectively,
or even helping them to make a choice as to which editor to focus their
learning on.
newbies hear all sorts of claims that 'vi is powerful' and 'emacs
is powerful' - but unless they have the opportunity to see some
examples then they should take these claims with a huge grain of
salt.
isn't the self-education process a big part of what this mailing list
is about?
Both emacs vi are good editors - i personally prefer vi but
acknowledge that emacs has some neat features too (every so often i try
to learn emacs properly but give up because it doesn't give me anything
that vi doesn't give me in less memory and less keystrokes - i have
no use for elisp or gnus in a text editor)
If the thread devolves into '{vi/emacs} is an abomination' then it
becomes useless...but while it remains friendly, helpful rivalry it is
very useful.
craig
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Re: bi (Please stop it)
The issue relevant to this group is: what editor should someone expect to find on a system's boot/rescue disk? That someone presumably being a person with enough unix experience to recover from the usual problems that can make your machine fail to boot. The lastthing you need at that point (especially if this is a server for many people) is a surprise from the editor or to have to learn a new one. What I'm saying is: Ok, emacs is great, we all (well, almost all) use it, I use it too. But if you have your system on the knees, and you have enough Unix experience to know how to get it up, you surely know vi, and most chances are that you also know ed. Emacs surely doesn't belong to base, and at least one of ed or (I'm not saying xor!) vi surely does. ae is good for newbies, but have you ever seen a newbie recovering your system? BTW, I work as a sysadmin, and I learned a little of ed just because I knew that it's better to learn it before you need it. Vadik, who uses ed when he can't get his beloved vi. -- Vadim Vygonets * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Unix admin If you think C++ is not overly complicated, just what is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor, and when was the last time you needed one? -- Tom Cargil, C++ Journal, Fall 1990. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: bi (Please stop it)
Folks, what does it matter if one editor is faster than another? Or if one is more powerful than any other? Nothing! The particular user has to be familiar with at least one editor in that way that _he_ can use it for his purposes. It doesn't make any sense discussing wether one particular editor is better than another. This is a problem which is not decidable - speaking as a computer scientist. So please stop this now. If there is still one person who hasn't found his favourite editor, please consult either ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/bo/binary/editors/ or ftp://sunsiste.unc.edu/pub/Linux/apps/editors/ Regards, Joey -- / Martin Schulze * Debian GNU/Linux Developer * [EMAIL PROTECTED] / / http://www.debian.org/ http://home.pages.de/~joey/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: bi (Please stop it)
what does it matter if one editor is faster than another? Or if one is more powerful than any other? Nothing! The particular user has to be familiar with at least one editor in that way that _he_ can use it for his purposes. The issue relevant to this group is: what editor should someone expect to find on a system's boot/rescue disk? That someone presumably being a person with enough unix experience to recover from the usual problems that can make your machine fail to boot. The last thing you need at that point (especially if this is a server for many people) is a surprise from the editor or to have to learn a new one. Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
