Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Christensen]

On 8/4/23 19:26, David Wright wrote:

On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 15:56:07 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:

On 8/2/23 19:05, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1
entry?


https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found.


Thank you.


If you want more detail on motives, then perhaps start reading at:

   https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00809.html



Thank you for the link.


David

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 15:56:07 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> On 8/2/23 19:05, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> > > Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1
> > > entry?
> > 
> > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution
> > 
> > I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found.
> 
> Thank you.

If you want more detail on motives, then perhaps start reading at:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/07/msg00809.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Christensen]

On 8/2/23 19:05, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1
entry?


https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found.



Thank you.


David

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:48:30 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/2/23 13:21, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > > > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous
> > > > > 
> > > [...]
> > > > 
> > > > It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
> > > > problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
> > > > his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
> > > So here it is, tell me whats wrong:
> > > 
> > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
> > > 127.0.0.1   localhost
> > > 
> > > There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
> > > (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.
> > 
> > Well, that looks reasonable.  You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that
> > probably doesn't matter.  So, assuming there are no other occurrences
> > of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably
> > lies elsewhere.
> > 
> > Did you attempt any other diagnostics?  Typing the full URL including
> > the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile?  Are you able
> > to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how?  What are the
> > exact symptoms you see?
> > 
> > Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using
> > the IP address directly:  http://127.0.0.1/   That bypasses any hostname
> > lookup issues that may exist.  It's pretty unlikely that a web service
> > running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP
> > address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).
> > 
> Its idle atm, so I'll give that a shot, brb. A click on the empty
> address line gets me a menu from google. this pops up with the first
> character typed, but if I continue with //127.0.0.1:80, I see a ;
> replacing the : and the 80 disappears but it does work, and I am
> looking at the klipper web page, used to run the printer. And
> everything seems to work.

That doesn't look like hijacking to me, but just the normal practice
of turning the port number into the appropriate protocol and sticking
it on the front of the address. (As already mentioned, some browsers
might hide the protocol, rather like Windows does with filename
extensions.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[tomas]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:05:11PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> show mea link to the doc that explains that please
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

There's not "the doc", but many of them. For starters, rfc5735 [1]
tells us that the whole subnet 127.0.0.0/8 is available for
loopback purposes (I've used it to test web servers locally,
picking one address and giving them a suitable name in /etc/hosts)

The 127.0.1.1 seems to be a Debianism explained here [2]. It seems
that some (ahem) software (Typical GNOME) wants to know "no, what's
my "real" IP address) and fails if there ain't one, so this seems
to have been done to pacify those.

Bad software, bad.

And now go fire your search engine ;-)

Cheers

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5735#section-4
[2] 
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Thu 03 Aug 2023 at 07:48:54 (+0800), jeremy ardley wrote:
> On 3/8/23 07:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > > > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > > > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > > > > 
> > > > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> > > > for.
> > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution
> > 
> As an aside, I checked my current debian 12 bookworm installation and
> found in /etc/nsswitch.conf this line
> 
> hosts:  files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname
> mymachines
> 
> when I do man nsswitch.conf there is no reference to mdns4_minimal
> 
> I see from searching that mdns4_minimal is referenced reasonably often
> over the past few years but I can't find it defined.
> 
> The question arises why it's not defined in man nsswitch.conf?

I suspect it's because  man nsswitch.conf  documents the (closed) set
of databases, whereas the various services are documented inside the
library packages that implement them, like libnss-mdns. In this case,
the files to read are /usr/share/doc/libnss-mdns/README.{Debian,md.gz}.

Cheers,
David.

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 07:01:22PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 127.0.1.1
> entry?

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

I'm sure there are others, but this was the first one I found.

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Christensen]

On 8/2/23 16:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
for.


https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

One click away from the first result of my first Google search on the
topic.  Not hard to find at all.

When you see something that you don't understand and your first reaction
is "let's remove that!" it's no wonder you have so many problems.




Thank you -- that answers my question:

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

The IP address 127.0.1.1 in the second line of this example may not be 
found on some other Unix-like systems. The Debian Installer creates this 
entry for a system without a permanent IP address as a workaround for 
some software (e.g., GNOME) as documented in the bug #719621.



David

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Christensen]

On 8/2/23 16:26, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
for.



Interesting.  Is there a Debian specification that explains the 
127.0.1.1 entry?






So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of
scope for 127.0.0.1.



Gene -- by "it", do you mean the 127.0.1.1 entries?



I'm not sure what you mean by scope. 127.0.0.0 is /8 isn't it?



That is my understanding, and what Wikipedia says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserved_IP_addresses says:

127.0.0.0/8 	127.0.0.0–127.255.255.255 	16777216 	Host 	Used for 
loopback addresses to the local host.[1]



So, both 127.0.0.1 and 127.0.1.1 are in the IPv4 special use address 
block 127.0.0.0/8.



David

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 17:02, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for.


I've seen expert explanations of why it is there.


So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for
127.0.0.1.


An interesting technique when something does not fit with preconceived
notions. Linits Debian's network setup but makes for a happyuser. Unti...


to quote from your own doc on this:
at section 5.1.1:

For a system with a permanent IP address, that permanent IP address 
should be used here instead of 127.0.1.1.


Also the next line but doesn't quite fit:

For a system with a permanent IP address and a fully qualified domain 
name (FQDN) provided by the Domain Name System (DNS), that canonical 
host_name.domain_name should be used instead of just host_name.


but the only dns server is my ISP.  dns queries are pointed at the 
router, which if dnsmasq in the router does not have it cached, asks my 
isp's server. I have no clue what address that may be, all I care about 
is the response time which is typically in the 30 millisecond territory.


Which is precisely what I am doing,  Its a small local network hidden 
behind dd-wrt and ALL machines have a unique permanent address, and a 
hostname in /etc/hostname w/o a local dns service running anyplace.


This thread is finished.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 17:02, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its for.


I've seen expert explanations of why it is there.


So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope for
127.0.0.1.


An interesting technique when something does not fit with preconceived
notions. Linits Debian's network setup but makes for a happyuser. Unti...


show mea link to the doc that explains that please
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[jeremy ardley]

On 3/8/23 07:34, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
for.

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

As an aside, I checked my current debian 12 bookworm installation and 
found in /etc/nsswitch.conf this line


hosts:  files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns myhostname 
mymachines


when I do man nsswitch.conf there is no reference to mdns4_minimal

I see from searching that mdns4_minimal is referenced reasonably often 
over the past few years but I can't find it defined.


The question arises why it's not defined in man nsswitch.conf?

Re: 127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

> On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> > On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > > 
> > True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> > for.

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#_the_hostname_resolution

One click away from the first result of my first Google search on the
topic.  Not hard to find at all.

When you see something that you don't understand and your first reaction
is "let's remove that!" it's no wonder you have so many problems.

127.0.1.1 line, was Re: chrome web browser worthless

[David Wright]

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 16:00:24 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:
> > On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:
> > > > No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
> > > > version that suits you.
> > > > 
> > > ok, same cat in full:
> > > gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
> > > 127.0.0.1   localhost
> > > 192.168.71.1router.coyote.den router
> > > 192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
> > > 192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
> > > 192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
> > > 192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
> > > 192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
> > > 192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
> > > 192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
> > > 192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
> > > 192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
> > > 192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
> > > 192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
> > > 192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
> > > 192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
> > > 192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
> > > 31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se
> > 
> > Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.
> > 
> True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its
> for.

AIUI it means that your hostname is always resolvable and reachable
regardless of whether the network is yet configured.

I assume the listing above was taken off one of the machines in
the list. I assume you can always ping localhost and 127.0.1.1
(or, for that matter, 127.any.any.any) even if you remove its
network cable (to save downing the interface). However, I would
expect that you can't ping foo (where foo is the hostname) under
the same circumstances (whereas I can).

I have no idea whether it has anything to do with your problem;
I kind of doubt it. I thought you'd solved that anyway, by
typing in the full URL (and then bookmarking it, I hope).

> So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of
> scope for 127.0.0.1.

I'm not sure what you mean by scope. 127.0.0.0 is /8 isn't it?

Cheers,
David.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 15:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:14:41PM +0100, Brian wrote:

Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.


Either deleted, or not provided by Armbian in the first place.  In any
case, it's not immediately relevant to this thread's issue, so long as
the web service doesn't redirect to the system's hostname.

.


That might be a possibility, but it comes and goes, sometimes bpi52:80 
works, next week it doesn't. That does not get the google intercept, 
just a 403 when it fails.


I might be able to buy your google excuses if it waited till I pressed 
enter on a filled in address line, but this requester ppps up, disabling 
the keyboard with the first click to get focus on the address line. And 
it pre-fills the address line with a 100+ character google address/path.


You cannot convince me that is not intentional...

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 15:15, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se


Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.

True, but I've never seen a description of what that does or what its 
for. So I've removed it from every machine here because its out of scope 
for 127.0.0.1.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Lee]

On 8/2/23, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 14:52:26 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
>
>> On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:
>> > No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a
>> > censored
>> > version that suits you.
>> >
>> ok, same cat in full:
>> gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
>> 127.0.0.1   localhost
  < ... snip ... >

> Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.

$ egrep '^127' /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

lee@spot ~
$ uname -a
Linux spot 5.10.0-23-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.179-2 (2023-07-14)
x86_64 GNU/Linux

Regards,
Lee

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:14:41PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> Where is the line with 127.0.1.1? Debian always provides that.

Either deleted, or not provided by Armbian in the first place.  In any
case, it's not immediately relevant to this thread's issue, so long as
the web service doesn't redirect to the system's hostname.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Andy Smith]

Gene,

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 02:05:48PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> this is a blatent attack by chrome

You've absolutely no evidence to suggest that, and other people
have already pointed out they are unable to replicate your issues.
Like almost every thread you start or derail here this is
overwhelmingly more likely to be user error than anything else. On
top of that you're talking about non-Debian software on a non-Debian
OS, so how about taking these ridiculous outbursts to a non-Debian
forum? Like you've already been asked to do.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 14:26, Brian wrote:

On Wed 02 Aug 2023 at 13:07:13 -0400, gene heskett wrote:


On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous


[...]


It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.



At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
So here it is, tell me whats wrong:

gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
(192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.


No - that isn't the way it works. Give what is asked for, not a censored
version that suits you.


ok, same cat in full:
gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
192.168.71.1router.coyote.den   router
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.4sixty40.coyote.den  sixty40
192.168.71.7vna.coyote.den  vna
192.168.71.8rock64v2.coyote.den rock64v2
192.168.71.9bpi51.coyote.denbpi51
192.168.71.10   go704.coyote.dengo704
192.168.71.11   bpi53.coyote.denbpi53
192.168.71.12   bpi54.coyote.denbpi54
192.168.71.13   rpi4.coyote.den rpi4
192.168.71.21   scanner.coyte.den   scanner
192.168.71.22   rock64.coyote.den   rock64
192.168.71.23   bpi52.coyote.denbpi52
192.168.71.25   tlm.coyote.den  tlm
192.168.71.50   dddprint.coyote.dn  dddprint
31.184.194.81   Sci-Hub.se

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 13:21, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous


[...]


It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.



At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
So here it is, tell me whats wrong:

gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
(192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.


Well, that looks reasonable.  You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that
probably doesn't matter.  So, assuming there are no other occurrences
of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably
lies elsewhere.

Did you attempt any other diagnostics?  Typing the full URL including
the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile?  Are you able
to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how?  What are the
exact symptoms you see?

Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using
the IP address directly:  http://127.0.0.1/   That bypasses any hostname
lookup issues that may exist.  It's pretty unlikely that a web service
running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP
address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).

Its idle atm, so I'll give that a shot, brb. A click on the empty 
address line gets me a menu from google. this pops up with the first 
character typed, but if I continue with //127.0.0.1:80, I see a ; 
replacing the : and the 80 disappears but it does work, and I am looking 
at the klipper web page, used to run the printer. And everything seems 
to work.  And work about 3x faster after I had used one of 
klipper/mainsail's options to check and update first the OS, and then 
all of kiauh. Screen response is around 3 or 4x faster, both on its own 
screen and with FF watching it at bpi52:80 from here.  A welcome speedup.


Thanks fpr the hint, Greg, very useful.

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 09:42, Stefan Monnier wrote:

It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.


My guess is that his Chrome runs in a kind of container that doesn't
have access to the host's port 80.  Similar to the problem of trying to
print to a printer on your local network when you have a VPN active
which redirects *all* network connections through the VPN.


 Stefan


Stefan: I won't be that kind to the big G. Unless Greg W. can tell me 
I'm wrong with my localhost entry in my /etc/hosts file on that machine 
this is a blatent attack by chrome to feed the starving maw of the big 
G's appetite for data about what your are searching for, and because of 
that, my spam has input doubled in the last week based on my attempts to 
access localhost:80 on that machine.  The big G hasn't a clue what to 
connect me to, but that sure as hell doesn't prevent them from 
harvesting the src address so they can spam me...


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 01:07:13PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> > > * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous
> > > 
> [...]
> > 
> > It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
> > problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
> > his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.
> > 
> 
> At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
> So here it is, tell me whats wrong:
> 
> gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
> 127.0.0.1   localhost
> 
> There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network
> (192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.

Well, that looks reasonable.  You're missing the IPv6 entry, but that
probably doesn't matter.  So, assuming there are no other occurrences
of the word "localhost", whatever is causing the problem probably
lies elsewhere.

Did you attempt any other diagnostics?  Typing the full URL including
the http:// part, or launching Chrome with a new profile?  Are you able
to reproduce the problem consistently, and if so, how?  What are the
exact symptoms you see?

Another thing to try, which I forgot to mention last time, would be using
the IP address directly:  http://127.0.0.1/   That bypasses any hostname
lookup issues that may exist.  It's pretty unlikely that a web service
running on localhost would care whether you addressed it by name or by IP
address (virtual hosts on loopback are not commonplace AFAIK).

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/2/23 07:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous


[...]


It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.



At this point Greg, I'll plead guilty to a hand edited /etc/hosts file.
So here it is, tell me whats wrong:

gene@bpi52:~$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost

There is more of course but the rest of it is private local network 
(192.168.xxx.yyy) addresses of no concern here.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Stefan Monnier]

> It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
> problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
> his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.

My guess is that his Chrome runs in a kind of container that doesn't
have access to the host's port 80.  Similar to the problem of trying to
print to a printer on your local network when you have a VPN active
which redirects *all* network connections through the VPN.


Stefan

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2023 at 08:43:32AM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> * "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous
> 
> In the case of the latter, are you wanting to use the localhost scheme to
> access the resource called 80 (now, you're going to say "There is no
> protocol called localhost" and I think that Chrome used to know which
> protocols exist but now it's a bit more agnostic)?

Even doing it this way -- typing "localhost:80" into the URL/search bar
and pressing Enter -- I still get the correct result.  What I typed
gets converted to "http://localhost/"; but is displayed as merely
"localhost" in the URL/search bar.  I only know about the
"http://localhost/"; part because if I multi-click the URL and then
paste it into a terminal, that's what I get.

(I do find it disturbing that what you get in the copy/paste buffer is
different from what you see in the application.)

So, I'm still unable to reproduce Gene's results, even with your added
guesswork.

It would be nice if we had an exact recipe for how to reproduce the
problem.  Failing that, it'll be up to Gene to debug the situation on
his end.  I'm still leaning toward an edited /etc/hosts file.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Darac Marjal]

On 01/08/2023 10:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser 
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
klipper..


I think this comes down to an ambiguity in how Chrome parses the input:

* "Pictures of Cats" - Clearly not a URI, so pass it to the default 
search engine


* "http://http.cat/302"; - Clearly a URI, so navigate to it

* "localhost:80" - This is ambiguous

In the case of the latter, are you wanting to use the localhost scheme 
to access the resource called 80 (now, you're going to say "There is no 
protocol called localhost" and I think that Chrome used to know which 
protocols exist but now it's a bit more agnostic)?



Try being explicit about the scheme (i.e. type "http://localhost:80";) 
and see if Chrome is happier.





FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Tuesday 01 August 2023 05:33:55 am gene heskett wrote:
> Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser 
> to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 
> cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
> klipper..
> 
> FF has no such problems.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

I would never consider using chrome,  what with all of the "phone home" 
nonsense that's in it.  Chromium is supposed to be an open-source (?) variant 
of that without all of that stuff included.  You might consider giving that a 
try.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Bret Busby]

On 1/8/23 20:54, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/1/23 06:26, Bret Busby wrote:

On 1/8/23 17:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a 
browser to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so 
localhost:80 cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d 
printer with klipper..


FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.



Willingly joining the google borg, by using chrome ("We have ways to 
obtain and sell all of your private information"), leads to the user 
having to take responsibility for the choice.


If you want an alternative to the fiery fox, you might want to try 
Vivaldi and Pale Moon, although, I think that, with their protections, 
they are a bit more resource demanding.



Not my choice, armbian's.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.



I have not been aware of the existence of anything named armbian, before 
this thread, so, I know nothing of it.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/1/23 06:26, Bret Busby wrote:

On 1/8/23 17:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser 
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
klipper..


FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.



Willingly joining the google borg, by using chrome ("We have ways to 
obtain and sell all of your private information"), leads to the user 
having to take responsibility for the choice.


If you want an alternative to the fiery fox, you might want to try 
Vivaldi and Pale Moon, although, I think that, with their protections, 
they are a bit more resource demanding.



Not my choice, armbian's.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 08:13:50AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/1/23 06:16, Phil Wyett wrote:
> > On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 05:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Maybe direct this to the appropriate arena. Debians default browser is
> > Firefox, if there is no issue with FF means you are in the wrong place
> > for this kind of statement/query.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Phil
> > 
> While armbians default seems to be chrome. But I believe armbian is using
> the debian repos. FF is installed as a snap, updated nightly from mozzilla,
> which is a PITA but it does work.  Google/Alphabet is turning into a bigger
> PITA than M$. So I'll hit the armbian forum with this bitch.  Thank you
> Phil, take care & stay well.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

Gene,

With the best will in the world - this *isn't* a Debian problem.

It's an armbian problem, maybe - it's a Gene problem, but it's not a
problem with Debian-provided software.

Similarly with snaps/AppImages/flatpaks - install from third party sites
and you take yourself outside straightforward Debian - at whcih point it's
time to go and raise complaints with your software provider.

If you mix in packages from various sites, you create a sort of
FrankenDebian - that's fine, but don't ask Debian to sort out the
resultant problems when most of us here can only speak to Debian
experience.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy


> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

On 8/1/23 06:16, Phil Wyett wrote:

On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 05:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote:

Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a
browser
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with
klipper..

FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


Hi,

Maybe direct this to the appropriate arena. Debians default browser is
Firefox, if there is no issue with FF means you are in the wrong place
for this kind of statement/query.

Regards

Phil

While armbians default seems to be chrome. But I believe armbian is 
using the debian repos. FF is installed as a snap, updated nightly from 
mozzilla, which is a PITA but it does work.  Google/Alphabet is turning 
into a bigger PITA than M$. So I'll hit the armbian forum with this 
bitch.  Thank you Phil, take care & stay well.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 05:33:55AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser to
> run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 cannot be
> used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with klipper..
> 
> FF has no such problems.

On my system, with this package:

ii  google-chrome-stable 115.0.5790.110-1 amd64The web browser from 
Google

and with Help -> About Google Chrome showing this version string:

Version 115.0.5790.110 (Official Build) (64-bit)

I cannot reproduce your result.  Typing this URL:

http://localhost:80/

gives me these messages:


This site can’t be reached
localhost refused to connect.

Try:

* Checking the connection
* Checking the proxy and the firewall

ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED


I consider this a correct result, as I have no local web server running.

unicorn:~$ telnet localhost 80
Trying ::1...
Connection failed: Connection refused
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused


So, at least with my current configuration, I see no evidence that Google
Chrome "intercepts port 80".  Perhaps something in your configuration
is different.

The standard next steps in such a situation would be to try with a brand
new browser profile, or with a brand new user account that has never run
Google Chrome before (which can be simulated by moving your dot-directories
to new names temporarily, or not-simulated by actually creating a new
user account and logging in as that account).

I'm not sure what all of the dot-directories are, but I see
~/.config/google-chrome/ and ~/.cache/google-chrome as starting points.

Or, if you prefer, you could try digging through your configuration to
see what might be set incorrectly.  I wouldn't relish that task.  Maybe
you could start with proxy settings, though.  If I recall correctly,
however, those have to be set with command-line arguments or environment
variables.  Or at least that was true once upon a time.

... oh!  And one other thing you definitely should check is the definition
of localhost in your /etc/hosts file.  On a standard Debian system, you
should have something like this:


unicorn:~$ grep localhost /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1   localhost
::1 localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback


Given your penchant for altering network configurations, it would not
surprise me if you've customized this in a way that breaks something.

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Bret Busby]

On 1/8/23 17:33, gene heskett wrote:
Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser 
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
klipper..


FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.



Willingly joining the google borg, by using chrome ("We have ways to 
obtain and sell all of your private information"), leads to the user 
having to take responsibility for the choice.


If you want an alternative to the fiery fox, you might want to try 
Vivaldi and Pale Moon, although, I think that, with their protections, 
they are a bit more resource demanding.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: chrome web browser worthless

[Phil Wyett]

On Tue, 2023-08-01 at 05:33 -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a
> browser 
> to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80
> cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
> klipper..
> 
> FF has no such problems.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

Hi,

Maybe direct this to the appropriate arena. Debians default browser is
Firefox, if there is no issue with FF means you are in the wrong place
for this kind of statement/query.

Regards

Phil

-- 
Playing the game for the games sake.

* Debian Maintainer

Social:

* Twitter: kathenasorg
* Instagram: kathenasorg



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part

chrome web browser worthless

[gene heskett]

Google seems to have high jacked port 80, I cannot use it as a browser 
to run klipper as a google search intercepts port 80, so localhost:80 
cannot be used for troubleshooting or for running a 3d printer with 
klipper..


FF has no such problems.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page