Re: debian-user message size limit
On 2022-06-17 19:01, Gareth Evans wrote: On 17 Jun 2022, at 23:25, Bijan Soleymani wrote: Actually I didn't store the emails from some point in 2004 through part of 2008. So I can't say when the limit was lowered but at least from 2009 until now there hasn't been anything over 101KB (103,424 bytes). Bijan Thanks for taking the time and effort to do that and letting us know. G No worries! I love extrapolating from data. Actually it just occurred to me that I scanned the sizes, based on the filesizes of the Maildir files on my mail server, and not the actual sizes of the messages as sent to the list. So taking the largest message from 2009-2022 that was: 103,384 bytes long And finding it on the list archive: https://marc.info/?l=debian-user=125432953215932 And downloading the raw message the size was actually: 99,925 bytes So I guess the limit is likely 100 decimal kB. 100,000 bytes. Bijan
Re: debian-user message size limit
> On 17 Jun 2022, at 23:25, Bijan Soleymani wrote: > > On 2022-06-17 18:20, Bijan Soleymani wrote: >>> On 2022-06-17 11:24, Gareth Evans wrote: >>> Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? >> I checked the data. I have been subscribed since 2003, though I >> haven't been active for a lot of that period. > > Actually I didn't store the emails from some point in 2004 through part of > 2008. > > So I can't say when the limit was lowered but at least from 2009 until now > there hasn't been anything over 101KB (103,424 bytes). > > Bijan > Thanks for taking the time and effort to do that and letting us know. G
Re: debian-user message size limit
On 2022-06-17 18:20, Bijan Soleymani wrote: On 2022-06-17 11:24, Gareth Evans wrote: Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? I checked the data. I have been subscribed since 2003, though I haven't been active for a lot of that period. Actually I didn't store the emails from some point in 2004 through part of 2008. So I can't say when the limit was lowered but at least from 2009 until now there hasn't been anything over 101KB (103,424 bytes). Bijan
Re: debian-user message size limit
On 2022-06-17 11:24, Gareth Evans wrote: Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? I checked the data. I have been subscribed since 2003, though I haven't been active for a lot of that period. In 2003 there were a handful of larger messages (largest 154KB). But since then there hasn't been anything above 100KB (maybe one or two just under 101KB, one in 2009 was 103,384 bytes, this was the largest since 2003). My guess is if in almost 20 years there haven't been any messages 101KB and above, that's the limit. Bijan
Re: debian-user message size limit
On Fri 17 Jun 2022, at 20:00, Brian wrote: > On Fri 17 Jun 2022 at 16:24:54 +0100, Gareth Evans wrote: > >> Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? >> >> I can't find any such info on >> >> https://lists.debian.org/ >> >> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ >> >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ >> >> but a couple of recent large-ish messages (one ~270K with two >> screenshots, one 70K with log output) have neither got through nor >> bounced back. >> >> It would be helpful to know what it is if there is one. > > Don't expect Listmaster to rush here and tell us :), > > According to mutt, one of the mails you sent earlier today is 70K > in size: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/06/msg00586.html > > Do you hear anyone complaining? You did not. The bandwidth usage is > low and time to download it is minuscule. The wheels are greased in > -user. > > However, you cheated and put a log file inline. Naughty :). Good > sense reigns in -user, however, so no one begrudges it. > > You know that attachments of ~270K and 70K do not get through. For the record, I had thought the log excerpts in the 70K email were likely to be just about acceptable inline - there was no attempt to send a ~70K attachment. Perhaps there should (or shouldn't) have been. I would find it difficult to consider 70K "large". With no guidance on the issues in eg monthly FAQ, this creates ambiguity and uncertainty. There was quite a delay in both the 70K email and the message size limit question getting back to me, such that I thought both may have been dropped or held - first the former, hence the latter, and then still an unusually long wait. But such is email sometimes. The lack of dropped/held feedback [1] (if messages even are held) along with ambiguity around message/attachment sizes, makes it difficult to judge what to do and when, if anything. Best wishes, Gareth [1] "Another known limitation in our mailing list software is that most rejected e-mails get silently dropped, so the user has no real indication on what went wrong." https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ > Try > ~50K next time and be aware that compression with gzip or xz is a > option. Text files compress well. > > If 50K is rejected, no harm is done. Try again to find the upper > limit. > > Attacments to a mailing list like -user are an efficient us of its > services. Ephemeral info on other sites isn't of any value to users > in the future. > > -- > Brian.
Re: debian-user message size limit
On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 21:28:15 +0200 Nicolas George wrote: > Brian (12022-06-17): > > Attacments to a mailing list like -user are an efficient us of its > > services. > > Multiplying the storage space taken by an attachment by the thousands of > users subscribed to this mailing list, most of them being not > interested, is really not what I would call an efficient use of > resources. If administrators are feeling that particular strain, there are facilities like paste-it, imgur, and any number of others which could help. There is always the risk of loss of data with that approach, however, which reduces the said efficiency of the list. Always best to keep all related material together, at the one resource to be available to those who may not be interested in a particular issue now, but may well see it as a priority in the future. For the sake of efficiency. Cheers! David.
Re: debian-user message size limit
On Fri 17 Jun 2022 at 21:28:15 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Brian (12022-06-17): > > Attacments to a mailing list like -user are an efficient us of its > > services. > > Multiplying the storage space taken by an attachment by the thousands of > users subscribed to this mailing list, most of them being not > interested, is really not what I would call an efficient use of > resources. You mean like the 70K email I cited? That mail lasted 3s on my system. No storage space usedd. Besides whic, I have no great desire to explore the storage capabilities and needs of 9,999 users. -- Brian.
Re: debian-user message size limit
Brian (12022-06-17): > Attacments to a mailing list like -user are an efficient us of its > services. Multiplying the storage space taken by an attachment by the thousands of users subscribed to this mailing list, most of them being not interested, is really not what I would call an efficient use of resources. -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: debian-user message size limit
On Fri 17 Jun 2022 at 16:24:54 +0100, Gareth Evans wrote: > Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? > > I can't find any such info on > > https://lists.debian.org/ > > https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ > > but a couple of recent large-ish messages (one ~270K with two > screenshots, one 70K with log output) have neither got through nor > bounced back. > > It would be helpful to know what it is if there is one. Don't expect Listmaster to rush here and tell us :), According to mutt, one of the mails you sent earlier today is 70K in size: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/06/msg00586.html Do you hear anyone complaining? You did not. The bandwidth usage is low and time to download it is minuscule. The wheels are greased in -user. However, you cheated and put a log file inline. Naughty :). Good sense reigns in -user, however, so no one begrudges it. You know that attachments of ~270K and 70K do not get through. Try ~50K next time and be aware that compression with gzip or xz is a option. Text files compress well. If 50K is rejected, no harm is done. Try again to find the upper limit. Attacments to a mailing list like -user are an efficient us of its services. Ephemeral info on other sites isn't of any value to users in the future. -- Brian.
Re: debian-user message size limit
Gareth Evans (12022-06-17): > but a couple of recent large-ish messages (one ~270K with two > screenshots, one 70K with log output) have neither got through nor > bounced back. “Avoid sending large attachments.” https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ This is not specific to Debian, most Libre Software mailing-list I know have a similar policy. It is inefficient and annoying for recipients. Put your screenshots on some transient hosting site. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: debian-user message size limit
> On 17 Jun 2022, at 17:51, Nicolas George wrote: > > Gareth Evans (12022-06-17): >> but a couple of recent large-ish messages (one ~270K with two >> screenshots, one 70K with log output) have neither got through nor >> bounced back. > > “Avoid sending large attachments.” > > https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ > > This is not specific to Debian, most Libre Software mailing-list I know > have a similar policy. It is inefficient and annoying for recipients. > Put your screenshots on some transient hosting site. > > Regards, > > -- > Nicolas George > Thank you both - I'll try that next time. Gareth
Re: debian-user message size limit
On 6/17/22, Gareth Evans wrote: > Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? > > I can't find any such info on > > https://lists.debian.org/ > > https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ > > but a couple of recent large-ish messages (one ~270K with two screenshots, > one 70K with log output) have neither got through nor bounced back. > > It would be helpful to know what it is if there is one. I don't know if there's a list size limit or not, but maybe your submission is sitting in moderation because it's not the norm? As an alternative, list members have previously hosted their images on trustworthy image hosts. I'm out of touch with what might qualify as that these days, though. Similar has been done for large text files, too. Pastebin type hosts fit that need. In fact, Debian had a version of it for its own packages not too long ago. The caveat for either of the above is that there's often a self-destruct mode that is based on either time length or click views. That's understandably about wear and tear on the host's server(s). Best wishes on what you're trying to fix. Cindy :) -- Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with birdseed *
debian-user message size limit
Is there a limit for message size on debian-user? I can't find any such info on https://lists.debian.org/ https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ but a couple of recent large-ish messages (one ~270K with two screenshots, one 70K with log output) have neither got through nor bounced back. It would be helpful to know what it is if there is one. Thanks, Gareth
