Re: dumb question about jigdo and i386 and AMD 64 versions of Etch......
Michael Fothergill wrote: Dear Debianists, How much commonality exists between the i386 versions of Etch or Sarge and the AMD 64 version of Etch? Others have addressed the changes from sarge to etch but as far as the two different architectures go I use apt-cacher to share common files between my amd64 partition and my i386 partition. The answer is that there are some packages that are architecture independent. These are labelled *all.deb. The architecture specific files are labelled *i386.deb and *amd64.deb respectively. A quick look at /var/cache/apt/archives on your current machine will give you an idea how many files are shared. IIRC you can use this as a source for jigdo too :). HTH Wackojacko -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dumb question about jigdo and i386 and AMD 64 versions of Etch......
Dear Debianists, How much commonality exists between the i386 versions of Etch or Sarge and the AMD 64 version of Etch? Let me explain what I mean a little more. I have Sarge 3.1r4 on DVD. I also have Sarge 3.1r3 on CD. All of it. As I understand it I could use jigdo to sniff through the DVD iso images (or the CDs) and pull out common packages with the RC1 i386 version of Etch while simultaneously downloading packages from the Debian mirror sites to synthesise either DVD or CD images of the Etch distribution. I am going to do this as an exercise to learn about jigdo and also to find the most efficient way of downloading a full distribution from the mirror sites. I use a number of computers that are not connected to the internet so I need CDs and DVDs. But I want to become proficient enough with jigdo to reduce the antisocial load that I might place on the servers. This important to me. I have been looking at a barebones box made by Novatech that is pretty cheap and contains an AMD 3000 Sempron chip and some RAM and an on board graphics card. I might buy this box and add a DVD drive and a 40GB drive to it. You guys can lobby for extra RAM or other features that I should add to it or even that I should go for an AMD Athlon 64 chip instead. I am open to suggestions on this. But the point is that as far as I understand it either an AMD Sempron 3000 chip or AMD Athlon 64 chip would run a 64 bit OS i.e. the Etch AMD64 version of the Debian OS. Correct me if I am wrong. If I wanted to make DVDs or CDs of the whole AMD64 Etch distribution would there be enough overlap of identical files between Sarge 3.1 i386 and the Etch AMD 64 bit distribution (or indeed the i386 version of Etch itself) to justify using it as a template for jigdo speed up the AMD64 bit download? Comments appreciated. By the way, here is the spec on the proposed AMD Sempron 3000 barebones box: Motherboard Form Factor Micro ATX Socket Type 754 Pin Compatible Processors AMD Athlon 64 and Sempron, Socket 754 (754-pin), 1600MT/s Cache Level 2 Size 128 KB Chipset SiS760GX + 964 Max FSB 1600MT/s IDE Type2 x ATA/133 + 2 x SATA/150 (w/ RAID) Supports RAID 0 and 1 Max Bus Speed 1600 MT/s Graphics Integrated SiS high-performance graphics controller plus AGP 8X slot Supports up to 128MB shared system memory Expansion Slots 1 x AGP 8X, 3 x PCI Memory Single channel, unbuffered, 2.5V DDR266/333/400, (2) 184-pin DIMM sockets, max 2GB Audio Integrated, 5.1 channel AC97 (ADI) LAN Integrated Fast Ethernet (10/100) MAC + PHY (Realtek) USB Up to 8: 4 in rear I/O area + 2 internal 2-port headers: ver. 2.0 IO 1 x PS/2 keyboard 1 x PS/2 mouse 1 x RJ45 (LAN) 4 x USB 2.0 1 x line-in/line-out/mic (audio) 1 x parallel (SPP/ECP/EPP) 1 x COM (16550-compatible UART) 1 x VGA (integrated video) Supplied Memory Installed Memory1x 512Mb 400Mhz PC3200 184pin Free Slots 1 Free Slot Processor Interface Type 754 Pin Clock Speed 1.8 GHz Architecture Features 3DNow! Professional technology, streaming SIMD extensions 2, HyperTransport technology, integrated memory controller Performance Index 3000+ Heatsink Fan Interface Type 3 Pin MaterialAlloy Copper Dot Maximum CPU Support AMD 4000 San Diego Case Chassis Midi ATX Tower Colour Black Silver PSU Size400Watt Drive Bays 5.24 x 4 Drive Bays 3.5x 6 (4 Hidden) Dimensions 415mm(H) x 200mm(W) x 480mm(D) Price £139.82 inc VAT (sales tax) This compares with the AMD Athlon 64 barebones box: Motherboard Form Factor ATX Socket Type 939 Pin Compatible Processors AMD Athlon AMD Dual Core AMD Athlon FX 2000MT/s Chipset NVIDIA C51G Max FSB 2000MT/s IDE Type2 x ATA/133 + 2 x SATA/300 (w/ RAID) Supports RAID 0 and 1 Max Bus Speed 2000 MT/s Graphics1 x PCIe x16 Expansion Slots 1 x PCI Express x16, 3 x PCI Memory Dual channel, unbuffered, 1.8V DDR 400 (4) 184-pin DIMM sockets, max 4GB Audio Integrated, 5.1 channel AC97 (Realtek) LAN 1 x 10/100 Realtek USB Up to 8: 4 in rear I/O area + 2 internal 2-port headers: ver. 2.0 IO 1 x PS/2 keyboard 1 x PS/2 mouse 1 x RJ45 (LAN) 4 x USB 2.0 1 x line-in/line-out/mic (audio) 1 x parallel (SPP/ECP/EPP) 1 x COM (16550-compatible UART) 1 x VGA (integrated video) Supplied Memory Installed Memory1x 512Mb 400Mhz PC3200 184pin Processor Interface Type 939 Pin Clock Speed 2.2 GHz Cache Level 2 Size 512 KB Architecture Features 3DNow! Professional technology, streaming SIMD extensions 2, HyperTransport technology, integrated memory controller Performance Index 3500+ Heatsink Fan Interface Type 3 Pin MaterialAlloy Copper Dot Maximum CPU Support AMD 4000 San Diego Case Chassis Midi ATX Tower Colour Black PSU Size400 Watt Drive Bays 5.24 x 4 Drive Bays 3.5x 6 (2 Hidden) Dimensions 415mm(H) x 200mm(W) x 480mm(D) Price £175.07 Your comments on this are
Re: dumb question about jigdo and i386 and AMD 64 versions of Etch......
On Sat, Dec 16, 2006 at 08:31:26PM +, Michael Fothergill wrote: How much commonality exists between the i386 versions of Etch or Sarge and the AMD 64 version of Etch? Let me explain what I mean a little more. I have Sarge 3.1r4 on DVD. I also have Sarge 3.1r3 on CD. All of it. As I understand it I could use jigdo to sniff through the DVD iso images (or the CDs) and pull out common packages with the RC1 i386 version of Etch while simultaneously downloading packages from the Debian mirror sites to synthesise either DVD or CD images of the Etch distribution. I am going to do this as an exercise to learn about jigdo and also to find the most efficient way of downloading a full distribution from the mirror sites. I use a number of computers that are not connected to the internet so I need CDs and DVDs. But I want to become proficient enough with jigdo to reduce the antisocial load that I might place on the servers. This important to me. I have been looking at a barebones box made by Novatech that is pretty cheap and contains an AMD 3000 Sempron chip and some RAM and an on board graphics card. I might buy this box and add a DVD drive and a 40GB drive to it. You guys can lobby for extra RAM or other features that I should add to it or even that I should go for an AMD Athlon 64 chip instead. I am open to suggestions on this. But the point is that as far as I understand it either an AMD Sempron 3000 chip or AMD Athlon 64 chip would run a 64 bit OS i.e. the Etch AMD64 version of the Debian OS. Correct me if I am wrong. If I wanted to make DVDs or CDs of the whole AMD64 Etch distribution would there be enough overlap of identical files between Sarge 3.1 i386 and the Etch AMD 64 bit distribution (or indeed the i386 version of Etch itself) to justify using it as a template for jigdo speed up the AMD64 bit download? Comments appreciated. By the way, here is the spec on the proposed AMD Sempron 3000 barebones box: Hi Michael. Re difference between Etch i386 and Etch amd64. You may also want to ask on the amd64 list since those are the people working on the port; they would know what they had to change. I can only guess that all the binaries will be different (64 bit not 32) while the docs will be mostly the same unless they refer to one or the other, ditto scripts (text files). But this is on a bit/byte/word basis. The actual packages are different, with different names (with different README files). If jigdo treats packages atomicly then the answer is probably not much. It is an elegant idea though. I'm assuming that you are doing this because you want to end up with a full media set instead of just a netinst.iso or CD1.iso. For just one CD it doesn't seem worth the effort. Re the hardware, be forwarned that the 'raid' is likely software-windows-driver raid not true hardware raid so you would use the kernel software raid. I'll be interested in hearing what others say. Let us know what you find. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dumb question about jigdo and i386 and AMD 64 versions of Etch......
On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 20:31 +, Michael Fothergill wrote: How much commonality exists between the i386 versions of Etch or Sarge and the AMD 64 version of Etch? I expect very little. I was just wanting to do a similar thing - make a DVD of my Sarge-AMD64 CDs. But cdimage.debian.org doesn't have the 3.1r0a jigdo files any more, so I tried the latest ones, and it needed to download more than 5000 of the 7000 odd packages (of the first disc). So from Sarge to Etch I don't expect there to be any common packages. I am going to do this as an exercise to learn about jigdo and also to find the most efficient way of downloading a full distribution from the mirror sites. Jigdo certainly is efficient. The nice thing about it is if you download the DVDs and you need to install on a box that has only a CD-ROM, jy you use jigdo to make the CDs without downloading it all again. Although I have noticed that there are some packages on the DVDs that are not on the CDs and vice versa. The other nice thing is you can use ordinary apt mirrors (that do not contain the ISO images) to download and create the ISO images. And you can download from different mirrors. Say DVD1 from one mirror, DVD2 from another at the same time (if you have the bandwidth). Motherboard Form Factor Micro ATX Socket Type 754 Pin Compatible Processors AMD Athlon 64 and Sempron, Socket 754 (754-pin), 1600MT/s Cache Level 2 Size128 KB Chipset SiS760GX + 964 Try to get a board with VIA chipset. I've never had any particularly good experiences with SiS chipsets. Gigabyte has a Micro-ATX board with, something like K8M800M, which is available in a barebones box and is good value, and completely supported under Sarge. We use a couple of them for mail/web servers. I've also setup a Linux desktop one one of them with a 1.6GHz Sempron for my dad and it really flies. 512MB memory is sufficient, but always more is better. I have 2GB in my notebook, and I must say, it was worth every dime! I never utilize all of it, but that's the point - to never swap. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dumb question about jigdo and i386 and AMD 64 versions of Etch......
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write: On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 20:31 +, Michael Fothergill wrote: How much commonality exists between the i386 versions of Etch or Sarge and the AMD 64 version of Etch? I expect very little. I was just wanting to do a similar thing - make a DVD of my Sarge-AMD64 CDs. But cdimage.debian.org doesn't have the 3.1r0a jigdo files any more, It does - look under http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/ All the files needed for the snapshot should still be available too. so I tried the latest ones, and it needed to download more than 5000 of the 7000 odd packages (of the first disc). So from Sarge to Etch I don't expect there to be any common packages. Agreed - almost the whole distribution will have changed from one major release to the next. I am going to do this as an exercise to learn about jigdo and also to find the most efficient way of downloading a full distribution from the mirror sites. Jigdo certainly is efficient. The nice thing about it is if you download the DVDs and you need to install on a box that has only a CD-ROM, jy you use jigdo to make the CDs without downloading it all again. Although I have noticed that there are some packages on the DVDs that are not on the CDs and vice versa. That's odd - short of documentation etc. changing from one set to the next, I'd expect the set of files to be the same. If you can identify files missing from one set, please report a bug! The other nice thing is you can use ordinary apt mirrors (that do not contain the ISO images) to download and create the ISO images. And you can download from different mirrors. Say DVD1 from one mirror, DVD2 from another at the same time (if you have the bandwidth). Yup, absolutely. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] You raise the blade, you make the change... You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dumb question about jigdo and i386 and AMD 64 versions of Etch......
On Sun, 2006-12-17 at 02:12 +, Steve McIntyre wrote: I am going to do this as an exercise to learn about jigdo and also to find the most efficient way of downloading a full distribution from the mirror sites. Jigdo certainly is efficient. The nice thing about it is if you download the DVDs and you need to install on a box that has only a CD-ROM, jy you use jigdo to make the CDs without downloading it all again. Although I have noticed that there are some packages on the DVDs that are not on the CDs and vice versa. That's odd - short of documentation etc. changing from one set to the next, I'd expect the set of files to be the same. If you can identify files missing from one set, please report a bug! I'll definitely make a note next time. I didn't think much of it at the time, I'm used to SUSE where the DVD has more goodies than the CD set. Hans -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
