Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Portability and network transparency are two strong advantages that come to mind. You are looking at it from a users perspective. Consider it from a programmers point of view and it will be clear that even with Alsa, a good sound daemon is important. Well, I can see the argument for network transparency, but for portability. If it was just a question of portability, the sound daemons would be a lot more lightweight than they are now... At least you made it clearer. Thanks:-) This is why projects like Jack exist. And arts, and esd... -- John L. Fjellstad web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think you are confusing the two. Alsa is a sound architecture but esound is a sound daemon. Alsa makes sounds where as esound plays more of a traffic cop role. Bottom line is that they serve two different purposes when dealing with sound. Alsa plays the driver or module role. Someday it might be able to do the job of a sound daemon as well but I don't think this is the intent of the project. I thought the never ALSA could play the role of 'traffic cop'? As in, it can get input from different streams and then merge them before sending it to the soundcard. Or does sound daemons do more? -- John L. Fjellstad web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 22:10 -0700, John L Fjellstad wrote: Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think you are confusing the two. Alsa is a sound architecture but esound is a sound daemon. Alsa makes sounds where as esound plays more of a traffic cop role. Bottom line is that they serve two different purposes when dealing with sound. Alsa plays the driver or module role. Someday it might be able to do the job of a sound daemon as well but I don't think this is the intent of the project. I thought the never ALSA could play the role of 'traffic cop'? As in, it can get input from different streams and then merge them before sending it to the soundcard. Or does sound daemons do more? Alsa cannot play multiple audio streams simultaneously. From what I understand, this is more of a hardware limitation than an alsa limitation. They claim that some sound cards can do automatic hardware mixing. If your card can't do this then there is a plugin called dmix that does software mixing (i.e. allow sounds to play simultaneously) . I've never tried it. Just search alsa dmix for plenty of how-to's. I would imagine just using esd or arts would be easier and work flawlessly at the moment. I think a lot of Gnome apps are probably programmed to use esound. Give it a try... it can't hurt. I'm no sound expert by any means so take this with a grain of salt... -- Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alsa cannot play multiple audio streams simultaneously. From what I understand, this is more of a hardware limitation than an alsa limitation. They claim that some sound cards can do automatic hardware mixing. If your card can't do this then there is a plugin called dmix that does software mixing (i.e. allow sounds to play simultaneously) . I've never tried it. Just search alsa dmix for plenty of how-to's. I would imagine just using esd or arts would be easier and work flawlessly at the moment. I think a lot of Gnome apps are probably programmed to use esound. Give it a try... it can't hurt. Actually, that's what I meant. With my Soundblaster card, I had hardware mixing with ALSA. On my laptop now, I do software mixing with the dmix plugin, also with ALSA. And it works fine. So, doesn't that mean that Alsa can play multiple audio streams, as long as you set it up? And I guess I was wondering what a 'real' sound daemon would bring to the table above this? I actuall run esd when running gtk windowmanagers (GNOME, Enlightenment), and it sounds terrible, so I usually just pipe the xmms output directly to ALSA. I actually do it everywhere if an app supports it. -- John L. Fjellstad web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Eric Gaumer wrote: On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 22:10 -0700, John L Fjellstad wrote: Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think you are confusing the two. Alsa is a sound architecture but esound is a sound daemon. Alsa makes sounds where as esound plays more of a traffic cop role. Bottom line is that they serve two different purposes when dealing with sound. Alsa plays the driver or module role. Someday it might be able to do the job of a sound daemon as well but I don't think this is the intent of the project. I thought the never ALSA could play the role of 'traffic cop'? As in, it can get input from different streams and then merge them before sending it to the soundcard. Or does sound daemons do more? Alsa cannot play multiple audio streams simultaneously. From what I understand, this is more of a hardware limitation than an alsa limitation. They claim that some sound cards can do automatic hardware mixing. If your card can't do this then there is a plugin called dmix that does software mixing (i.e. allow sounds to play simultaneously) . I've never tried it. Just search alsa dmix for plenty of how-to's. I would imagine just using esd or arts would be easier and work flawlessly at the moment. I think a lot of Gnome apps are probably programmed to use esound. Give it a try... it can't hurt. I'm no sound expert by any means so take this with a grain of salt... there's dmix plugin in alsa (for software mixing), see: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=DmixPlugin erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 10:54 -0700, John L Fjellstad wrote: Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alsa cannot play multiple audio streams simultaneously. From what I understand, this is more of a hardware limitation than an alsa limitation. They claim that some sound cards can do automatic hardware mixing. If your card can't do this then there is a plugin called dmix that does software mixing (i.e. allow sounds to play simultaneously) . I've never tried it. Just search alsa dmix for plenty of how-to's. I would imagine just using esd or arts would be easier and work flawlessly at the moment. I think a lot of Gnome apps are probably programmed to use esound. Give it a try... it can't hurt. Actually, that's what I meant. With my Soundblaster card, I had hardware mixing with ALSA. On my laptop now, I do software mixing with the dmix plugin, also with ALSA. And it works fine. So, doesn't that mean that Alsa can play multiple audio streams, as long as you set it up? And I guess I was wondering what a 'real' sound daemon would bring to the table above this? Portability and network transparency are two strong advantages that come to mind. You are looking at it from a users perspective. Consider it from a programmers point of view and it will be clear that even with Alsa, a good sound daemon is important. This is why projects like Jack exist. I actuall run esd when running gtk windowmanagers (GNOME, Enlightenment), and it sounds terrible, so I usually just pipe the xmms output directly to ALSA. I actually do it everywhere if an app supports it. -- John L. Fjellstad web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes -- Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
esound and alsa not compatible?
I had ALSA built as module in the kernel without OSS support. Alsa was working fine (xmms, xine, etc.) but was giving no system sounds at all. So I installed esound last night (Gnome in Unstable, kernel 2.6.7). Since then, after reboot, whichever user logs in kind of own esd because if then that user logs out and another logs in, s/he get in .xsession-errors: ## esd: Failed to fix owner of /tmp/.esd. Try -trust to force esd to start. esd: Esound sound daemon unable to create unix domain socket: /tmp/.esd/socket The socket is not accessible by esd. Exiting... ** (gnome-session:4742): WARNING **: Esound failed to start. ### When is do 'ps uax | grep esd' i see an esd session from the last user that had first logged in. Also, xmms does not work anymore. Killing esd solves the xmms problem but Gnome system sounds do not work then. What am I missing? :~$ COLUMNS=100 dpkg -l alsa* esound* alsa*esd* lib*esd* | grep '^ii' ii alsa-base 1.0.6a-5ALSA configuration files ii alsa-headers1.0.6a-5transitional package that can be safely removed ii alsa-oss1.0.6-2 ALSA OSS-compatibility library ii alsa-utils 1.0.6-4 ALSA utilities ii alsamixergui0.9.0rc2-1-7graphical soundcard mixer for ALSA soundcard driver ii alsaplayer 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA ii alsaplayer-common 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA (common files) ii alsaplayer-daemon 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA (non-interactive version) ii alsaplayer-esd 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA (ESD output module) ii alsaplayer-gtk 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA (GTK version) ii alsaplayer-oss 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA (OSS output module) ii esound 0.2.35-1Enlightened Sound Daemon - Support binaries ii esound-clients 0.2.35-1Enlightened Sound Daemon - clients ii esound-common 0.2.35-1Enlightened Sound Daemon - Common files ii alsaplayer-esd 0.99.76-0.2 PCM player designed for ALSA (ESD output module) ii libesd-alsa00.2.35-1Enlightened Sound Daemon (ALSA) - Shared libraries thanks, -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 14:53 -0400, H. S. wrote: I had ALSA built as module in the kernel without OSS support. Alsa was working fine (xmms, xine, etc.) but was giving no system sounds at all. So I installed esound last night (Gnome in Unstable, kernel 2.6.7). Since then, after reboot, whichever user logs in kind of own esd because if then that user logs out and another logs in, s/he get in .xsession-errors: ## esd: Failed to fix owner of /tmp/.esd. Try -trust to force esd to start. esd: Esound sound daemon unable to create unix domain socket: /tmp/.esd/socket The socket is not accessible by esd. Exiting... ** (gnome-session:4742): WARNING **: Esound failed to start. ### When is do 'ps uax | grep esd' i see an esd session from the last user that had first logged in. Also, xmms does not work anymore. Killing esd solves the xmms problem but Gnome system sounds do not work then. What am I missing? When a user logs out, esd should be killed. It sounds like you have a stale socket from an old session or different user. As for xmms... you just need to change the output plugin under settings to use esound. -- Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Apparently, _Eric Gaumer_, on 24/10/04 15:14,typed: On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 14:53 -0400, H. S. wrote: I had ALSA built as module in the kernel without OSS support. Alsa was working fine (xmms, xine, etc.) but was giving no system sounds at all. So I installed esound last night (Gnome in Unstable, kernel 2.6.7). Since then, after reboot, whichever user logs in kind of own esd because if then that user logs out and another logs in, s/he get in .xsession-errors: ## esd: Failed to fix owner of /tmp/.esd. Try -trust to force esd to start. esd: Esound sound daemon unable to create unix domain socket: /tmp/.esd/socket The socket is not accessible by esd. Exiting... ** (gnome-session:4742): WARNING **: Esound failed to start. ### When is do 'ps uax | grep esd' i see an esd session from the last user that had first logged in. Also, xmms does not work anymore. Killing esd solves the xmms problem but Gnome system sounds do not work then. What am I missing? When a user logs out, esd should be killed. It sounds like you have a stale socket from an old session or different user. Yes, it should be killed. Is that a bug in Sid? As for xmms... you just need to change the output plugin under settings to use esound. I could do that. But how does that relate to Alsa? If I install esound, can I just uninstall Alsa altogether? Conversely, how do I make system sounds of gnome use Alsa instead of esound? This way I can get rid of esound and keep Alsa. Thanks, -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
On Sun, 2004-10-24 at 15:31 -0400, H. S. wrote: Apparently, _Eric Gaumer_, on 24/10/04 15:14,typed: When is do 'ps uax | grep esd' i see an esd session from the last user that had first logged in. Also, xmms does not work anymore. Killing esd solves the xmms problem but Gnome system sounds do not work then. What am I missing? When a user logs out, esd should be killed. It sounds like you have a stale socket from an old session or different user. Yes, it should be killed. Is that a bug in Sid? Not to my knowledge but you can check the bug reports. I'm using Sid on a PPC so it may be an issue relative to x86. No problems like that here an I'm up to date on every package as of this morning. As for xmms... you just need to change the output plugin under settings to use esound. I could do that. But how does that relate to Alsa? If I install esound, can I just uninstall Alsa altogether? I think you are confusing the two. Alsa is a sound architecture but esound is a sound daemon. Alsa makes sounds where as esound plays more of a traffic cop role. Bottom line is that they serve two different purposes when dealing with sound. Alsa plays the driver or module role. Someday it might be able to do the job of a sound daemon as well but I don't think this is the intent of the project. Conversely, how do I make system sounds of gnome use Alsa instead of esound? This way I can get rid of esound and keep Alsa. Nope. When you say use alsa you are just eliminating the sound daemon but without a sound daemon, only one thing could use the sound card at a time. Esound is comparable to Arts not alsa... -- Eric Gaumer [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:20:07 +0200, H. S. wrote: So I installed esound last night (Gnome in Unstable, kernel 2.6.7). Since then, after reboot, whichever user logs in kind of own esd because if then that user logs out and another logs in, s/he get in .xsession-errors: Please submit this information to the BTS under issue #187730. -- Thomas Hood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:50:07 +0200, H. S. wrote: I could do that. But how does that relate to Alsa? If I install esound, can I just uninstall Alsa altogether? If you use ALSA and esound then you should install libesd-alsa0 instead of libesd0. -- Thomas Hood -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Apparently, _Eric Gaumer_, on 24/10/04 16:08,typed: I think you are confusing the two. Alsa is a sound architecture but esound is a sound daemon. Alsa makes sounds where as esound plays more of a traffic cop role. Bottom line is that they serve two different purposes when dealing with sound. Alsa plays the driver or module role. Someday it might be able to do the job of a sound daemon as well but I don't think this is the intent of the project. Much appreciate the explanation, thanks. Conversely, how do I make system sounds of gnome use Alsa instead of esound? This way I can get rid of esound and keep Alsa. Nope. When you say use alsa you are just eliminating the sound daemon but without a sound daemon, only one thing could use the sound card at a time. Esound is comparable to Arts not alsa... That clears stuff in mind about alsa and esd. Again, thanks. -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Apparently, _Thomas Hood_, on 24/10/04 15:56,typed: On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 21:50:07 +0200, H. S. wrote: I could do that. But how does that relate to Alsa? If I install esound, can I just uninstall Alsa altogether? If you use ALSA and esound then you should install libesd-alsa0 instead of libesd0. I already have libesd-alsa0 installed and removed libesd0 (which was 'rc' and not 'ii' in dpkg info): ~$ dpkg -l libesd* Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name VersionDescription +++-==-==- ii libesd-alsa0 0.2.35-2 Enlightened Sound Daemon (ALSA) - Shared libraries un libesd-alsa0-dev none (no description available) un libesd-dev none (no description available) pn libesd0none (no description available) pn libesd0-devnone (no description available) Still the behaviour is the same. The problem is that when the first user to use esd logs out .esd in /tmp is not removed: ~$ ls /tmp/.esd/socket -l srwxrwxrwx 1 user user 0 2004-10-24 20:00 /tmp/.esd/socket is still there when the second user logs in to gdm. -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[SOLVED and work around] Re: esound and alsa not compatible?
Apparently, _H. S._, on 24/10/04 20:03,typed: If you use ALSA and esound then you should install libesd-alsa0 instead of libesd0. I already have libesd-alsa0 installed and removed libesd0 (which was 'rc' and not 'ii' in dpkg info): ~$ dpkg -l libesd* Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name VersionDescription +++-==-==- ii libesd-alsa0 0.2.35-2 Enlightened Sound Daemon (ALSA) - Shared libraries un libesd-alsa0-dev none (no description available) un libesd-dev none (no description available) pn libesd0none (no description available) pn libesd0-devnone (no description available) Still the behaviour is the same. The problem is that when the first user to use esd logs out .esd in /tmp is not removed: ~$ ls /tmp/.esd/socket -l srwxrwxrwx 1 user user 0 2004-10-24 20:00 /tmp/.esd/socket is still there when the second user logs in to gdm. -HS I changed /etc/esound/esd.conf to enable auto-spawning and now all souns work (xmms works along with system sounds). My esd.conf is now: # cat /etc/esound/esd.conf [esd] #auto_spawn=0 auto_spawn=1 #spawn_options=-terminate -nobeeps -as 5 spawn_options=-terminate -nobeeps -as 1 spawn_wait_ms=100 # default options are used in spawned and non-spawned mode default_options= Thanks for everyone's input. -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
