Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-26 Thread Chris Davies 
Josef Huber  wrote:
> Yes, that's quite annoying: I had a similar problem once, because of
> hibernation with lenny and xp. Later I had to find out that if you use
> only Linux-OSs, the problem occurs as well. Why there isn't any warning
> with the file system not being saved correctly - I would really like to
> know that!

What? Of course it can't work. Hibernation suspends the OS in a state
from which it can continue later. Quite correctly it doesn't unmount
filesystems, as this would close all open file descriptors on that file
system. This in turn could en up killing processes - quite possibly
including your session and maybe all system daemons. Now you're in a
state where you might as well have restarted from scratch, negating all
the advantages of suspend/hibernation.

If you want to use the same filesystem between any two OS installations
(whether Linux and Linux, or Windows and Linux, or any other combination)
you must not (and cannot) use hibernation unless you first unmount the
relevant filesystems.

Chris


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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-14 Thread Stan Hoeppner 
Frank put forth on 9/14/2010 12:17 PM:

> Further to this problem (I'm getting tired of re-booting)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-14 Thread Stephen Powell 
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:17:35 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> 
> Further to this problem (I'm getting tired of re-booting)...I have
> tried copying mail in SYlpheed from Ubuntu (sda3) to Squeeze (sda2)
> several times..with and without manually unmounting sda2 before
> rebooting.  If I unmount sda2 before rebooting after moving mail ,
> there is no problem.  Squeeze reboots without finding fs errors.  If I
> don't manually unmount sda2 orphaned nodes are found when squeeze
> reboots.  Yet when Ubuntu reboots, one of the messages is local file
> systems unmounted!!  It seems Ubuntu is unmounting sda3, but not
> sda2. I guess this now belongs on the Ubuntu list??

Absolutely.  This proves that the problem lies on the Ubuntu side.
If /dev/sda2 is present in /etc/fstab on your Ubuntu system, either
directly or indirectly via a UUID, and Ubuntu mounts that file system
automatically on boot, then it should umount it automatically on
shutdown.  That is obviously not happening.  The problem should be
pursued on the Ubuntu forums.

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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-14 Thread Frank 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:45:52 -0400
Frank  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT)
> Stephen Powell  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:51:12 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> > > One thing I noticed...in Ubuntu's fstab, sda2 is referred to as
> > > "/dev/sda2" while the Ubuntu partition is referenced by the UUID..I
> > > wonder if this is a problem ?
> 
> > It shouldn't be a problem, as long as the UUID is correct.  If the partition
> > has been re-formatted since /etc/fstab was created, the
> > UUID might have changed.  Verify that the UUIDs match.  
> 
>   I have already done that.
> 
> > be confusing udev/blkid.  But the first thing to try is manually
> > umounting the file system in Ubuntu before shutdown.
> 
> 

Further to this problem (I'm getting tired of re-booting)...I have
tried copying mail in SYlpheed from Ubuntu (sda3) to Squeeze (sda2)
several times..with and without manually unmounting sda2 before
rebooting. If I unmount sda2 before rebooting after moving mail ,
there is no problem. Squeeze reboots without finding fs errors. If I
don't manually unmount sda2 orphaned nodes are found when squeeze
reboots. Yet when Ubuntu reboots, one of the messages is local file
systems unmounted !! It seems Ubuntu is unmounting sda3, but not
sda2. I guess this now belongs on the Ubuntu list ??


Thanks





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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Frank 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:01:08 -0400
Paul Cartwright  wrote:

>  
> >Ubuntu is using the graphical logon/logoff so I can't see what's
> > going on, but yes the shutdown is clean. I **assume** the file system
> > is being unmounted, but I'd have to disable graphics to see for sure.
>  
> I think if you hit ESC ( escape) you can see the actual text of what is going 
> on...
>


  OK thanks.


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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Frank 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:02:54 -0400
Tom H  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Stephen Powell  wrote:
> > On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:51:12 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> >> One thing I noticed...in Ubuntu's fstab, sda2 is referred to as
> >> "/dev/sda2" while the Ubuntu partition is referenced by the UUID..I
> >> wonder if this is a problem ?
> >
> > You said Ubuntu both times.  Which is Debian and which is Ubuntu?
> > It shouldn't be a problem, as long as the UUID is correct.  If the partition
> > has been re-formatted since /etc/fstab was created, the
> > UUID might have changed.  Verify that the UUIDs match.  The blkid
> > command will tell you what the actual current UUID for a device
> > is.  For example:
> >
> >   blkid /dev/sda2
> >
> > If blkid returns no output, try wipefs (from package util-linux) to
> > see if there are any residual file system signatures that may
> > be confusing udev/blkid.  But the first thing to try is manually
> > umounting the file system in Ubuntu before shutdown.
> 
> Skip the blkid cache with
> blkid -c /dev/null /dev/sda2
> 
> Is sda3 ext3 or ext4?

  Both sda3 and sda2 are ext3 formatted.
   
  Thanks


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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Frank 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT)
Stephen Powell  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:51:12 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> > One thing I noticed...in Ubuntu's fstab, sda2 is referred to as
> > "/dev/sda2" while the Ubuntu partition is referenced by the UUID..I
> > wonder if this is a problem ?
> 
> You said Ubuntu both times.  
  
  No, what I said was in the fstab on the Ubuntu partition, sda2
(Squeeze) is referred to as /dev/sda2, while that same fstab refers to
the Ubuntu partition (sda3) by it's UUID

> It shouldn't be a problem, as long as the UUID is correct.  If the partition
> has been re-formatted since /etc/fstab was created, the
> UUID might have changed.  Verify that the UUIDs match.  

  I have already done that.

> be confusing udev/blkid.  But the first thing to try is manually
> umounting the file system in Ubuntu before shutdown.


  That's next.

  Thanks for your help so far.

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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Tom H 
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Stephen Powell  wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:51:12 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
>> One thing I noticed...in Ubuntu's fstab, sda2 is referred to as
>> "/dev/sda2" while the Ubuntu partition is referenced by the UUID..I
>> wonder if this is a problem ?
>
> You said Ubuntu both times.  Which is Debian and which is Ubuntu?
> It shouldn't be a problem, as long as the UUID is correct.  If the partition
> has been re-formatted since /etc/fstab was created, the
> UUID might have changed.  Verify that the UUIDs match.  The blkid
> command will tell you what the actual current UUID for a device
> is.  For example:
>
>   blkid /dev/sda2
>
> If blkid returns no output, try wipefs (from package util-linux) to
> see if there are any residual file system signatures that may
> be confusing udev/blkid.  But the first thing to try is manually
> umounting the file system in Ubuntu before shutdown.

Skip the blkid cache with
blkid -c /dev/null /dev/sda2

Is sda3 ext3 or ext4?


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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Stephen Powell 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 13:51:12 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> One thing I noticed...in Ubuntu's fstab, sda2 is referred to as
> "/dev/sda2" while the Ubuntu partition is referenced by the UUID..I
> wonder if this is a problem ?

You said Ubuntu both times.  Which is Debian and which is Ubuntu?
It shouldn't be a problem, as long as the UUID is correct.  If the partition
has been re-formatted since /etc/fstab was created, the
UUID might have changed.  Verify that the UUIDs match.  The blkid
command will tell you what the actual current UUID for a device
is.  For example:

   blkid /dev/sda2

If blkid returns no output, try wipefs (from package util-linux) to
see if there are any residual file system signatures that may
be confusing udev/blkid.  But the first thing to try is manually
umounting the file system in Ubuntu before shutdown.

-- 
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 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Josef Huber 

Yes, that's quite annoying: I had a similar problem once, because of 
hibernation with lenny and xp. Later I had to find out that if you use only 
Linux-OSs, the problem occurs as well. Why there isn't any warning with the 
file system not being saved correctly - I would really like to know that!

Josef Huber


Betreff:
Re: ext3 file system
Von:
Stephen Powell 
Datum:
Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:41:32 -0400 (EDT)
An:
debian-user@lists.debian.org

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:28:26 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> 
> I have been having (minor?) problems with the ext3 file systems on my

> machine.  I have Ubuntu installed on /dev/sda3, with Squeeze on
> /dev/sda2.  Nearly everytime I go into Ubuntu, then back to Squeeze,
> the file system check recovers the journal, and finds 8 or 10 orphaned
> nodes.  It seems to happen when I copy files from sda3 to sda2.  I use
> Sylpheed as a mail client, and on both systems have several shared
> folders..that is folders that are symlinked. 
> Any ideas on the problem ?


That sounds like the file system is not being cleanly unmounted by
Ubuntu during shutdown.  You are doing a clean shutdown, aren't you?
What happens if you manually umount the file system prior to shutting
down Ubuntu?

-- .''`. Stephen Powell 



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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Frank 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:41:32 -0400 (EDT)
Stephen Powell  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:28:26 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> > 
> > I have been having (minor?) problems with the ext3 file systems on my
> > machine.  I have Ubuntu installed on /dev/sda3, with Squeeze on
> > /dev/sda2.  Nearly everytime I go into Ubuntu, then back to Squeeze,
> > the file system check recovers the journal, and finds 8 or 10 orphaned
> > nodes.  It seems to happen when I copy files from sda3 to sda2.  I use
> > Sylpheed as a mail client, and on both systems have several shared
> > folders..that is folders that are symlinked. 
> > Any ideas on the problem ?
> 
> That sounds like the file system is not being cleanly unmounted by
> Ubuntu during shutdown.  You are doing a clean shutdown, aren't you?

   Ubuntu is using the graphical logon/logoff so I can't see what's
going on, but yes the shutdown is clean. I **assume** the file system
is being unmounted, but I'd have to disable graphics to see for sure.


> What happens if you manually umount the file system prior to shutting
> down Ubuntu?

  I have to try it and see. 
  One thing I noticed...in Ubuntu's fstab, sda2 is referred to as
"/dev/sda2" while the Ubuntu partition is referenced by the UUID..I
wonder if this is a problem ?

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Re: ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Stephen Powell 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:28:26 -0400 (EDT), Frank wrote:
> 
> I have been having (minor?) problems with the ext3 file systems on my
> machine.  I have Ubuntu installed on /dev/sda3, with Squeeze on
> /dev/sda2.  Nearly everytime I go into Ubuntu, then back to Squeeze,
> the file system check recovers the journal, and finds 8 or 10 orphaned
> nodes.  It seems to happen when I copy files from sda3 to sda2.  I use
> Sylpheed as a mail client, and on both systems have several shared
> folders..that is folders that are symlinked. 
> Any ideas on the problem ?

That sounds like the file system is not being cleanly unmounted by
Ubuntu during shutdown.  You are doing a clean shutdown, aren't you?
What happens if you manually umount the file system prior to shutting
down Ubuntu?

-- 
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 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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ext3 file system

2010-09-13 Thread Frank 

I have been having (minor?) problems with the ext3 file systems on my
machine. I have Ubuntu installed on /dev/sda3, with Squeeze on
/dev/sda2. Nearly everytime I go into Ubuntu, then back to Squeeze,
the file system check recovers the journal, and finds 8 or 10 orphaned
nodes. It seems to happen when I copy files from sda3 to sda2. I use
Sylpheed as a mail client, and on both systems have several shared
folders..that is folders that are symlinked. 
Any ideas on the problem ?

Thanks
 

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Ext2/Ext3 file system driver for Windows XP (x86)

2005-08-08 Thread Hans-Peter Sulzer 
Hello,

albeit I have written it already here, but in a reply,
so many users perhaps won't have noticed it. A German
student has developed a file system driver for
Windows XP (x386-versions only), which can natively
access Linux Ext2 and Ext3 (Ext3 imo only without
journalling) partitions. Read and write. The download
URL is:

http://www.fs-driver.org/download.html

I'm using it on 2 machines here, and it is working
without any problems.

Peter
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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-21 Thread steef 

Ian Langnickel wrote:


Hi Steef,

as my mailrules fail to automatically move your messages into my
mailinglist folder and I always have to move them manually I would like
to ask you to correct some setting in your mailreader software.

The "To: " header is broken with your current configuration, I think it
is your addressbook entry:

--- snip ---
Illegal-Object: Syntax error in To: address found on mailgate.god.de:
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:gebruikerslijst 
^-missing end of address

--- snipp ---

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Ian has some trouble with my adressing to the mailing list. see above. 
somebody else the same trouble?


please inform me. i cannot find something unusual, but would like to 
help him (and possibly others) out. yet i changed something in the 
adress-entries. instead of *debian:gebruikerslijst <>* 
it is now *gebruikerslijst  <..>*.


thanx,



steef


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Re: [Fwd: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System]

2005-06-20 Thread Steve Lamb 
steef wrote:

No message from ya so I presume you're wondering why he would be saying
there's a problem?

> Illegal-Object: Syntax error in To: address found on mailgate.god.de:
> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:gebruikerslijst
> 

He's partially correct and partially wrong.  His error message is pointing
to the address outside the <> symbols as the problem.  His filters really
should be looking inside the <> symbols or, better still, the List-Id header.
   On the other hand the portion prior to the <> symbols should be in quotes
to encapsulate the : symbol which, IIRC, is not valid in that context
according to RFC822 or RFC2822.

-- 
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-


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[Fwd: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System]

2005-06-20 Thread steef 



 Original Message 
Subject:Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System
Date:   Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:24:52 +0200
From:   Ian Langnickel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
References: 	<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Hi Steef,

as my mailrules fail to automatically move your messages into my
mailinglist folder and I always have to move them manually I would like
to ask you to correct some setting in your mailreader software.

The "To: " header is broken with your current configuration, I think it
is your addressbook entry:

--- snip ---
Illegal-Object: Syntax error in To: address found on mailgate.god.de:
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:gebruikerslijst 
^-missing end of address

--- snipp ---

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
Ian



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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-19 Thread steef 

Steve Lamb wrote:


steef wrote:
 


Vincent Lönngren wrote:
   



 


Actually, it refuses to defrag ext3 filesystems, because they have
"unsupported features".
 



 


why would you do that for heaven's sake?
   



   Vincent was replying to an old thread.  Already discussed at length.
Check archives.  :)

 


ok, thanks!

steef


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-18 Thread Steve Lamb 
steef wrote:
> Vincent Lönngren wrote:

>> Actually, it refuses to defrag ext3 filesystems, because they have
>> "unsupported features".

> why would you do that for heaven's sake?

Vincent was replying to an old thread.  Already discussed at length.
Check archives.  :)

-- 
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-



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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-18 Thread steef 

Vincent Lönngren wrote:


Actually, it refuses to defrag ext3 filesystems, because they have
"unsupported features".
 


why would you do that for heaven's sake?

regards,

steef


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Re: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-18 Thread Roberto C. Sanchez 
On Sat, Jun 18, 2005 at 10:04:16AM +0200, Vincent Lönngren wrote:
> Actually, it refuses to defrag ext3 filesystems, because they have
> "unsupported features".

There is no need to defrag modern *nix filesystems.  Why even bother?

-Roberto
-- 
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Re: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-18 Thread Vincent Lönngren 
Actually, it refuses to defrag ext3 filesystems, because they have
"unsupported features".
-- 
Vincent Lönngren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-06-02 Thread Todd A. Jacobs 
On Fri, May 27, 2005 at 11:24:47PM +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:

> Package: defrag [..] Description: ext2, minix and xiafs filesystem
> defragmenter  Wouldn't risk it on ext3. If it shouldn't be used on

It will work fine on a cleanly-unmounted ext3 partition (e.g. with no
peding log replays). Ext3 uses identical filesystem structures to ext2,
which is both its blessing and its curse. :)

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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-27 Thread Chris Bannister 
On Sun, May 22, 2005 at 03:31:20AM +0100, Carlos Rodrigues wrote:
> Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> >Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
> >of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
> >my harddisk?  I'll  run e2fsck to check on defragmentation but would still
> >like to know how to run the defrag program.
> >Thanks for your replys and consideration of my request,
> 
> e2defrag can't defrag your filesystem because it doesn't understand some 
> of the options set on it. The probable reason is the "dir_index" flag 
> (hashed directories for fast access when they have lots of files), but I 
> don't even know if it could handle it even without it (because of the 
> journal).
> 
> Bottom line is: if you could force it to do its job, it would most 
> likely trash your filesystem.

# apt-cache show defrag | less

Package: defrag
[..]
Description: ext2, minix and xiafs filesystem defragmenter
 
Wouldn't risk it on ext3. If it shouldn't be used on ext2 it should be
removed.

-- 
Chris.
==


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-26 Thread Joris Huizer 

Leonard Chatagnier wrote:

On Sunday 22 May 2005 03:33 pm, Bill Mair wrote:


Steve Lamb wrote:
> Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
>>Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
>>of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
>>my harddisk?





debian FS != DOS FS




This is about the best explanation I've ever seen, even if it a 
couple of years old now:



http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.os.linux.mandrake/msg/38a9eeb8d01b1dbb?hl=en 





Just to make this clear, this page explains the linux kernel does 
reordering reading/writing on the disc, which, among other things, takes 
care of the fragmentation problem; this is done by linux 2.4 (probably 
also by linux 2.2) and linux 2.6


HTH,

Joris


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Re: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System-No Problem!

2005-05-23 Thread Leonard Chatagnier 
Thanks to everyone who patiently helped me to remove all my scepticism 
about defragging a linux system. I am
convinced and Carlos Rodrigues' explanation of how a linux/unix fs works 
went a long way in doing this.  I'm going to remove/purge e2defrag from 
my HD and just forget about defragging although I might look into 
dump/restore just in case my system falls into one of those exceptional 
cases as I'm alittle tight of space.
I don't consider my post any waste of time as it should help convince 
other former mswindows users who just
know as I did once that at some point in time all hard drives had to be 
defragged.  Again, thanks to all of
you for adding a little more knowledge and understanding of how linux 
works.  I've long known about the shortcommings of Dos/Windows just 
didn't know any details about the advantages of other operating systems.


Leonard Chatagnier

Leonard Chatagnier wrote:

   Thanks for the reply as I would like to get to the bottom of this.
   ...snipped


It is a trivial amount. On ext3 filesystems with some fairly regular use 
you should see fragmentation always around 5%. This is normal, and has 
no impact in performance.


On DOS filesystems, the defrag program puts everything on the start of 
the drive. You may think that this is good for performance, but consider 
this:


- When a file has to be extended (after the fs having been defragged), 
the next block will be put after all the other files. This will is much 
worse than having a small amount of fragmented files on an ext3 fs, 
which will have all their blocks somewhat near.


This means that 5% fragmentation on an ext3 fs means basically nothing, 
whereas it may mean some performance degradation on a DOS fs.


   Can you elaborate on why extension 3 file systems wont become
   fragmented over time. 



*nix filesystems in general distribute files and their blocks in the fs, 
in ways that let them grow over time and reduce fragmentation. This 
could mean that some blocks are left free after some files are created, 
or that writes are deferred slightly in order to better know where to 
allocate new blocks and know if the file has potential to grow a lot or not.


Every fs has its own way to do it, but they don't suffer from 
performance degradation from fragmentation. Period.


Actually, there is one situation where this may actually happen: on very 
active filesystems, with almost no free space.
In this case, fragmentation becomes an issue, but this mostly _never_ 
happens in real life, and when it does... dump/restore (move everything 
somewhere else, and then move it back).


   Do I have to revert to ext 2 fs in order to defrag a hard drive
   safely? Debian appears to put out the message that ext3 file system
   is the greatest yet I don't seem to be able to use any utilities to
   maintain it. 



You can't use e2defrag, which hardly qualifies as "any utilities".

Let me state this one more time: e2defrag is merely a proof-of-concept, 
nobody actually uses it (which is why it doesn't support the latest 
additions to ext3).


I know it is difficult to accept this, coming from a Windows background, 
but this is how things work in the unix world (or everywhere besides 
MS-land, for that matter).


   Or if asking for comments on this is more than you care to do,
   perhaps you can offer some references(normal human readable types)
   that explains my concerns. 



The references on this are mostly highly technical, and you can find a 
bunch of those by googling. But sometimes the best way to is just to try 
and forget the habits learned on MS-land and adopt a wait-and-see approach.


Just let your filesystems be, and in time you will realise that they 
works very well without the rituals you are used to perform on your 
Windows systems.


I know what I'm talking about, because I already asked the same 
questions you are asking now and it took me quite some time to finally 
believe it to be true.


And after 8 years using Linux all the time, I came to find the MS-land 
rituals somewhat exotic (if unix filesystems take care of themselves, 
why can't the so called New Technology File System?).


   Why does Debian put out programs that will trash the system without
   at least giving some warning? 



If it didn't give any warning, you would have a trashed fs by now. 
Refusing to work is enough warning, if you ask me.


Just to finish, I understand you wanting to know more before believing 
what we are saying, but understand that this is something that most unix 
folks know as fact, proven by everyday experience.


Most people don't actually know the specifics on why this is so, but 
know that their many-years-old filesystems don't turn slow just from 
using them.


Carlos Rodrigues


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-23 Thread Mike 

Carlos Rodrigues wrote:



The references on this are mostly highly technical, and you can find a 
bunch of those by googling. But sometimes the best way to is just to 
try and forget the habits learned on MS-land and adopt a wait-and-see 
approach.


Just let your filesystems be, and in time you will realise that they 
works very well without the rituals you are used to perform on your 
Windows systems.


I know what I'm talking about, because I already asked the same 
questions you are asking now and it took me quite some time to finally 
believe it to be true.


And after 8 years using Linux all the time, I came to find the MS-land 
rituals somewhat exotic (if unix filesystems take care of themselves, 
why can't the so called New Technology File System?).



It was supposed to if you remember. NT didn't come with a defrag utility 
until a certian service pack after they figured out that they were wrong 
in their assumption that NTFS didn't need to be defragmented. To put a 
fine point on it, MS screwed up.


And to throw salt in the wound, they have such a crappy defrag utility 
included with their NTFS based OS's due to a patent issue with Executive 
Software. (Who they originally contracted with to do FAT... HA HA!)


-Mike


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-23 Thread Michelle Konzack 
Am 2005-05-20 17:10:25, schrieb Leonard Chatagnier:
> Have read manuals and done Google Debian search but can't get e2defrag 
> to run on KI 2.6.8-2-686
> with Ext 3 FS.  Here's what I did and results:
   
> ChatagnierL-Home:/var/log#  *e2defrag -drsv /dev/hda2*
   
> DEBUG: read_tables()
> 
> e2defrag (/dev/hda2): filesystem has unsupported features

'e2defrag' can not defrag ext3 FileSystems
Even for ext2 you never should it.

You can force e2defrag, but it will destroy your ext3 Journal

> Leonard Chatagnier

Greetings
Michelle

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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Steve Lamb 
Carlos Rodrigues wrote:
> And after 8 years using Linux all the time, I came to find the MS-land
> rituals somewhat exotic (if unix filesystems take care of themselves,
> why can't the so called New Technology File System?).

It can.  NTFS is a dirivative of OS/2's HPFS.  HPFS didn't have a defrag
worth mention either for much the same reasons as have been discussed here.
In fact in all my time running NTFS I've hardly ever thought to defrag.  When
I have it was because of people coming from FAT habits trying to solve
unlreated problems (latest was City of Heroes server lagginess, go fig) and I
would defrag just to prove them wrong (No, really, disk "fragmentation" means
nothing to server-side lag, see!?).  In each case the defragmentation took
forever and resulted in absolutely no perceptable improvement of performance.

> Most people don't actually know the specifics on why this is so, but
> know that their many-years-old filesystems don't turn slow just from
> using them.

Point in support of this statement.  I've had hard drives physically fail
before my ext2/ext3 file systems have failed.  While I am not pushing them as
hard as they would be pushed in a production environment they aren't lax,
either.  ;)

--
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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Carlos Rodrigues 

Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
Thanks for the reply as I would like to get to the bottom of this.  I 
get the general message.  However, contrary to what has been said, I 
have at least one partition with 4.5% fragmentation(e2fsck reports) 
which I don't consider a trivial amound.


It is a trivial amount. On ext3 filesystems with some fairly regular use 
you should see fragmentation always around 5%. This is normal, and has 
no impact in performance.


On DOS filesystems, the defrag program puts everything on the start of 
the drive. You may think that this is good for performance, but consider 
this:


- When a file has to be extended (after the fs having been defragged), 
the next block will be put after all the other files. This will is much 
worse than having a small amount of fragmented files on an ext3 fs, 
which will have all their blocks somewhat near.


This means that 5% fragmentation on an ext3 fs means basically nothing, 
whereas it may mean some performance degradation on a DOS fs.


Can 
you elaborate on why extension 3 file systems wont become fragmented 
over time.


*nix filesystems in general distribute files and their blocks in the fs, 
in ways that let them grow over time and reduce fragmentation. This 
could mean that some blocks are left free after some files are created, 
or that writes are deferred slightly in order to better know where to 
allocate new blocks and know if the file has potential to grow a lot or not.


Every fs has its own way to do it, but they don't suffer from 
performance degradation from fragmentation. Period.


Actually, there is one situation where this may actually happen: on very 
active filesystems, with almost no free space.
In this case, fragmentation becomes an issue, but this mostly _never_ 
happens in real life, and when it does... dump/restore (move everything 
somewhere else, and then move it back).


Do I have to revert to ext 2 fs in order to defrag a hard 
drive safely?  Debian appears to put out the message that ext3 file 
system is the greatest yet I don't seem to be able to use any utilities 
to maintain it.


You can't use e2defrag, which hardly qualifies as "any utilities".

Let me state this one more time: e2defrag is merely a proof-of-concept, 
nobody actually uses it (which is why it doesn't support the latest 
additions to ext3).


I know it is difficult to accept this, coming from a Windows background, 
but this is how things work in the unix world (or everywhere besides 
MS-land, for that matter).


Or if asking for comments on this is more than you care 
to do, perhaps you can offer some references(normal human readable 
types) that explains my concerns.


The references on this are mostly highly technical, and you can find a 
bunch of those by googling. But sometimes the best way to is just to try 
and forget the habits learned on MS-land and adopt a wait-and-see approach.


Just let your filesystems be, and in time you will realise that they 
works very well without the rituals you are used to perform on your 
Windows systems.


I know what I'm talking about, because I already asked the same 
questions you are asking now and it took me quite some time to finally 
believe it to be true.


And after 8 years using Linux all the time, I came to find the MS-land 
rituals somewhat exotic (if unix filesystems take care of themselves, 
why can't the so called New Technology File System?).


 Why does Debian put out programs that will trash the system without at 
least giving some warning?


If it didn't give any warning, you would have a trashed fs by now. 
Refusing to work is enough warning, if you ask me.


Just to finish, I understand you wanting to know more before believing 
what we are saying, but understand that this is something that most unix 
folks know as fact, proven by everyday experience.


Most people don't actually know the specifics on why this is so, but 
know that their many-years-old filesystems don't turn slow just from 
using them.


Carlos Rodrigues


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Re: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Leonard Chatagnier 

On Sunday 22 May 2005 03:33 pm, Bill Mair wrote:

Steve Lamb wrote:
> Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
>>Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
>>of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
>>my harddisk?



debian FS != DOS FS



This is about the best explanation I've ever seen, even if it a couple of 
years old now:


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.os.linux.mandrake/msg/38a9eeb8d01b1dbb?hl=en

Hello Everybody, Iwant to thank all of you who had the patience to stay with me 
and answer
my questions.  And, yes, I did get the message and wont use e2defrag.  BTW, it 
was easy to
find the file as it is a Debian package that I've seen before and easily found 
with wajig search.

A couple of responders mentioned dump/restore to do what I was thinking of doing with e2defrag. 
I read the man file but don't really understand what it does as being a newbie I don't really know 
what an inode or journal is.  Before I close this thread, perhaps one of you would give me a little

more insight on it and whether or not I should use it.  Thanks again for you 
patience.

Leonard Chatagnier


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread John Hasler 
Rob writes:
> This is about the best explanation I've ever seen, even if it a couple of
> years old now:

> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.os.linux.mandrake/msg/38a9eeb8d01b1dbb?hl=en

Also of note is the fact that ext2 uses a loosest fit algorithm (also known
as "worst fit") rather than the tightest fit algorithm (also known as "best
fit") historically used by FAT filesystems.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Adam Fabian 
On 5/22/05, Leonard Chatagnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Adam Fabian wrote:
> 
> >On 5/20/05, Leonard Chatagnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>more than 5 months old and has never been defragged but I'm still very
> >>much a newbie.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >It's very unlikely that your filesystem needs defragmenting after 5
> >months.  As other have already noted, ext3 isn't prone to
> >fragmentation.  I wasn't even aware there was an ext2 defragmenting
> >utility, though.  The traditional solution would be to use
> >dump/restore.
> >
> >
> >
> A! That sounds like something that will read the hard drive and
> write back each file to the drive in a
> contiguous manner removing lost drive space something akin to MS
> defrag.  Am I correct in my assumption?
> After scanning man dumpe2fs, I see mention of tune2fs and still wonder
> if I have to remove some ext3 fs features
> in order to run dump2fs on an ext3 fs.  Do I?  There were a couple more
> dump programs, dump2 and dump, I believe were the names.  From the man,
> I believe you mean the dump2fs as it mentions ext3 in it.  Am I correct
> here?
> If use of dump/restore is safe besides being the traditional solution,
> I'd be grad to try it out.  Is it relatively safe for
> a newbie to use?  Are there options I should use to assure not screwing
> up my HD?
> Thanks for your response and for seeing my request to copy my email
> address.  It makes my response much easier to do.
> Leonard Chatagnier

Well, I trust *BSD's dump/restore completely.  (I know more about *BSD
than Linux.)  When I say "traditional," I mean that it's what UNIX
system administrators did on those extremely rare occasions when
fragmentation became a problem.  I know a guy that used to do it on to
big reels of tape.  Under Linux, I might be inclined to use GNU tar,
mke2fs, and untar the the files back onto the filesystem.

It's a waste of time with 4.5% fragmentation, though.  I don't even
think Windows utilities recommend you defragment with less than 10%
fragmentation, as a rule.  (Though the filesystems are dissimilar
enough that I don't necessarily mean to imply that I know a comparison
of this sort is relevant.)

-- 
Adam Fabian
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Rob Bochan 
On Sunday 22 May 2005 03:33 pm, Bill Mair wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:
> > Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> >>Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
> >>of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
> >>my harddisk?

> debian FS != DOS FS


This is about the best explanation I've ever seen, even if it a couple of 
years old now:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.os.linux.mandrake/msg/38a9eeb8d01b1dbb?hl=en

HTH

-- 

...Rob
Return address is obfuscated.
You can reach me via robslaptop (at) gmail dot com


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Bill Mair 

Steve Lamb wrote:

Leonard Chatagnier wrote:


Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
my harddisk?



I'd say you're not getting the message.

You don't need to do it.  Period.  Full stop.  There is no insight or
knowledge needed beyond that statement because it simply is not needed and
highly recommended you do NOT do it as it be destructive.


Signed.

ext2/3 are not DOS based file systems. That you even *found* the old
e2defrag is a wonder in it's own right.

Forget about it, continue living and let linux do it's thing.

*IF* you feel that a defrag *HAS* to be done, which I very much doubt,
then dump the FS and reload it.

debian FS != DOS FS

And it is better that way :)

--
Bill


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Sunday May 22 2005 2:55 am, Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> Adam Fabian wrote:
> >On 5/20/05, Leonard Chatagnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>more than 5 months old and has never been defragged but I'm still
> >> very much a newbie.
> >
> >It's very unlikely that your filesystem needs defragmenting after
> > 5 months.  As other have already noted, ext3 isn't prone to
> > fragmentation.  I wasn't even aware there was an ext2
> > defragmenting utility, though.  The traditional solution would be
> > to use dump/restore.
>
> A! That sounds like something that will read the hard drive and
> write back each file to the drive in a
> contiguous manner removing lost drive space something akin to MS
> defrag.  Am I correct in my assumption?

Not really, since Linux doesn't put things down in a contiguous 
manner, as I understand it.


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Sunday May 22 2005 2:24 am, Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
>
> Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and
> knowledge of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error
> and not distroy my harddisk?  I'll  run e2fsck to check on
> defragmentation but would still like to know how to run the defrag
> program.

You can't with ext3, not that you should.  It wasn't designed for 
that.

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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Steve Lamb 
Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
> of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
> my harddisk?

I'd say you're not getting the message.

You don't need to do it.  Period.  Full stop.  There is no insight or
knowledge needed beyond that statement because it simply is not needed and
highly recommended you do NOT do it as it be destructive.

--
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   PGP Key: 8B6E99C5   | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Leonard Chatagnier 

Adam Fabian wrote:


On 5/20/05, Leonard Chatagnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 


more than 5 months old and has never been defragged but I'm still very
much a newbie.
   



It's very unlikely that your filesystem needs defragmenting after 5
months.  As other have already noted, ext3 isn't prone to
fragmentation.  I wasn't even aware there was an ext2 defragmenting
utility, though.  The traditional solution would be to use
dump/restore.

 

A! That sounds like something that will read the hard drive and 
write back each file to the drive in a
contiguous manner removing lost drive space something akin to MS 
defrag.  Am I correct in my assumption?
After scanning man dumpe2fs, I see mention of tune2fs and still wonder 
if I have to remove some ext3 fs features
in order to run dump2fs on an ext3 fs.  Do I?  There were a couple more 
dump programs, dump2 and dump, I believe were the names.  From the man, 
I believe you mean the dump2fs as it mentions ext3 in it.  Am I correct 
here?
If use of dump/restore is safe besides being the traditional solution, 
I'd be grad to try it out.  Is it relatively safe for
a newbie to use?  Are there options I should use to assure not screwing 
up my HD?
Thanks for your response and for seeing my request to copy my email 
address.  It makes my response much easier to do.

Leonard Chatagnier


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Re: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-22 Thread Leonard Chatagnier 

Leonard Chatagnier wrote:

Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
my harddisk?  I'll  run e2fsck to check on defragmentation but would still
like to know how to run the defrag program.
Thanks for your replys and consideration of my request,
 



>e2defrag can't defrag your filesystem because it doesn't understand 
some of the options set on it. The >probable reason is the "dir_index" 
flag (hashed directories for fast access when they have lots of files), 
>but I don't even know if it could handle it even without it (because 
of the journal).
I gathered this from the comments about the tune2fs commmand found in 
man e2defrag but couldn't get the
features to add or remove as originally posted.  If it had, I probably 
would have run e2fsck and e2defrag
as indicated to defrag my hard drive. Guess its good I couldn't get the 
programs to run. I gathered or assumed from the man that if I could get 
the ext3 fs features to be removed or cleared that I could safely run 
e2defrag.  Now via the response postings that may have trashed my hard 
drive.


>Bottom line is: if you could force it to do its job, it would most 
likely trash your filesystem.


>But... as others said, you don't need to bother with fragmentation 
with *nix filesystems in general.


Thanks for the reply as I would like to get to the bottom of this.  I 
get the general message.  However, contrary to what has been said, I 
have at least one partition with 4.5% fragmentation(e2fsck reports) 
which I don't consider a trivial amound.  And I understand if I attempt 
to defrag(which the program wont even do as originally described) its 
almost certain to trash my hard drive.  Well, coming from m$windows as 
most people have, its hard to accept that after many installs, removals, 
upgrades, distribution upgrades, more removals and more, the drive wont 
become considerably fragmented.  Yet, all of you have said it wont.  Can 
you elaborate on why extension 3 file systems wont become fragmented 
over time.  Do I have to revert to ext 2 fs in order to defrag a hard 
drive safely?  Debian appears to put out the message that ext3 file 
system is the greatest yet I don't seem to be able to use any utilities 
to maintain it.  Or if asking for comments on this is more than you care 
to do, perhaps you can offer some references(normal human readable 
types) that explains my concerns.
After several months, posts to lists, etc, I now have a fairly fully 
functional Debian system even though something fails, or doesn't work 
the same, just about every time I boot up or upgrade.  I'm now at the 
point I'd like to do some fine tuning to improve speed, etc., but 
getting utilities to work right is difficult even after reading the 
mans, infos, howtos, etc.  I'm no programmer, but would like to get 
comfortable with
linux and be able to handle most everything on my own.  Reading man, 
infos and googling hasn't helped much as most are written as if you had 
a good background in linux and knew what was being talked about.

I appreciate your response and hope you will respond again.

>And one more thing, even if e2defrag could handle every kind of ext3 
filesystem out there, I wouldn't ever >trust it. You could probably 
count the people that have used it with the fingers in one hand (and 
that >includes its author). :)
Why does Debian put out programs that will trash the system without at 
least giving some warning?


Carlos Rodrigues

Thanks in advance for any followups on this.

Leonard Chatagnier


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-21 Thread Carlos Rodrigues 

Leonard Chatagnier wrote:

Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
my harddisk?  I'll  run e2fsck to check on defragmentation but would still
like to know how to run the defrag program.
Thanks for your replys and consideration of my request,


e2defrag can't defrag your filesystem because it doesn't understand some 
of the options set on it. The probable reason is the "dir_index" flag 
(hashed directories for fast access when they have lots of files), but I 
don't even know if it could handle it even without it (because of the 
journal).


Bottom line is: if you could force it to do its job, it would most 
likely trash your filesystem.


But... as others said, you don't need to bother with fragmentation with 
*nix filesystems in general.


And one more thing, even if e2defrag could handle every kind of ext3 
filesystem out there, I wouldn't ever trust it. You could probably count 
the people that have used it with the fingers in one hand (and that 
includes its author). :)


Carlos Rodrigues


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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-21 Thread Adam Fabian 
On 5/20/05, Leonard Chatagnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> more than 5 months old and has never been defragged but I'm still very
> much a newbie.

It's very unlikely that your filesystem needs defragmenting after 5
months.  As other have already noted, ext3 isn't prone to
fragmentation.  I wasn't even aware there was an ext2 defragmenting
utility, though.  The traditional solution would be to use
dump/restore.

-- 
Adam Fabian
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Re: Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-20 Thread Leonard Chatagnier 

On Friday May 20 2005 10:10 am, Leonard Chatagnier wrote:

Have read manuals and done Google Debian search but can't get
e2defrag to run on KI 2.6.8-2-686
with Ext 3 FS.

Paul Johnson Wrote:
Don't bother.  Fragmentation isn't a problem on ext2 and ext3, I 
really can't see any justification for e2defrag's existence.  You can 
literally never defrag and not run into problems.

Ok, I get your message, but for my gratification, insight and knowledge
of Linux how do I get the programs to run without error and not distroy
my harddisk?  I'll  run e2fsck to check on defragmentation but would still
like to know how to run the defrag program.
Thanks for your replys and consideration of my request,

Leonard Chatagnier
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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-20 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Friday May 20 2005 10:10 am, Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> Have read manuals and done Google Debian search but can't get
> e2defrag to run on KI 2.6.8-2-686
> with Ext 3 FS.

Don't bother.  Fragmentation isn't a problem on ext2 and ext3, I 
really can't see any justification for e2defrag's existence.  You can 
literally never defrag and not run into problems.

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and Instant Messenger (Jabber): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Can't Defrag Ext3 File System

2005-05-20 Thread Roberto C. Sanchez 
Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> Have read manuals and done Google Debian search but can't get e2defrag
> to run on KI 2.6.8-2-686
> with Ext 3 FS.  Here's what I did and results:
> ChatagnierL-Home:/var/log#  *e2defrag -drsv /dev/hda2*
> DEBUG: read_tables()
> 
> e2defrag (/dev/hda2): filesystem has unsupported features

Why are you trying to defrag?  ext2 and ext3 do a good job of keeping
their fragmentation levels very low (remember, these are not Microsoft
products).  Unless you have extraordinary curcimstances, you probably
don't need to bother.

-Roberto

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Re: Ext3 file system crash

2004-11-10 Thread Eddy Jacob 
Thank you very much for the help guys! :)

I've installed smartmontools, memtest86+.
First thing I tried was memtest86+, and it reported failure/errors. I
am using 2 memory chips, and luckily the fault only on the first chip,
so now I can still run linux safely with 512MB.

At the moment, I'm still running suggested dd to check for hard drive
IO fault. I think the hard disk is pretty safe.. at least until I see
the command finish without error in the log.

Thanks again, now I know what to use for checking memory in the
future. memtest86+ even allow me to make a bootable disk to check
memory. cool!

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:58:18 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Justin Guerin wrote:
> > I would recommend installing smartmontools and checking the health of your
> > hard drive.  This many errors suggests hardware problems.  You should not
> > need to check your drives once a day.
> 
> Also, install memtest86+ (packages in sarge and sid, and also easily
> downloadable to run from a boot floppy, search for it in google) and run it
> overnight to make sure you are not experiencing memory errors (which would
> corrupt the filesystem).
> 
> If it is not bad memory, make sure the cabling to the disk (both power AND
> data) is not bad (the only easy way to do this test is to replace the cables
> with another data cable and plug the disk to another power cord).
> 
> To find out if you have IO problems, run this (replace hd# with the physical
> device that is giving you problems):
> 
>   dd if=/dev/hd# of=/dev/null bs=1M
> 
> as root.  It will try to read all sectors of the HD (and write them to
> /dev/null, i.e. do nothing).
> 
> Afterwards, check the kernel logs (dmesg command, or look at
> /var/log/kern.log) for IO errors.
> 
> If it is not bad cabling, get all the data off that disk at once and declare
> it a paper weight.  Disk problems snowball quicky and quite soon you won't
> be able to salvage anything from that drive...
> 
> --
>   "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
>   them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
>   where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
>   Henrique Holschuh
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: Ext3 file system crash

2004-11-10 Thread Henrique de Moraes Holschuh 
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Justin Guerin wrote:
> I would recommend installing smartmontools and checking the health of your 
> hard drive.  This many errors suggests hardware problems.  You should not 
> need to check your drives once a day.

Also, install memtest86+ (packages in sarge and sid, and also easily
downloadable to run from a boot floppy, search for it in google) and run it
overnight to make sure you are not experiencing memory errors (which would
corrupt the filesystem).

If it is not bad memory, make sure the cabling to the disk (both power AND
data) is not bad (the only easy way to do this test is to replace the cables
with another data cable and plug the disk to another power cord).

To find out if you have IO problems, run this (replace hd# with the physical
device that is giving you problems):

  dd if=/dev/hd# of=/dev/null bs=1M

as root.  It will try to read all sectors of the HD (and write them to
/dev/null, i.e. do nothing).

Afterwards, check the kernel logs (dmesg command, or look at
/var/log/kern.log) for IO errors.

If it is not bad cabling, get all the data off that disk at once and declare
it a paper weight.  Disk problems snowball quicky and quite soon you won't
be able to salvage anything from that drive...

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Ext3 file system crash

2004-11-10 Thread Justin Guerin 
On Tuesday 09 November 2004 21:36, Eddy Jacob wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Like the earlier post from other user, I also experienced this. I am
> asking for help here or ideas.
>
> I installed knoppix 3.4 to harddisk (debian based option), kernel
> 2.4.26, and using ext3 for all my file system. my etc/fstab:
>
> # filesystem  mountpoint  type  options  dump  pass
> /dev/hda7  /  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
> /dev/hda9  /var  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
> /dev/hda10  /tmp  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
> /dev/hda11  /home  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
>
> proc  /proc  proc  defaults  0  0
> /dev/fd0  /floppy  autofs  defaults,user,noauto,showexec,umask=022  0  0
> usbdevfs  /proc/bus/usb  usbdevfs  defaults  0  0
> sysfs  /sys  sysfs  defaults  0  0
>
> one day, suddenly, my / file system crash after reboot. and I have to
> answer lots of yes.. to fix the error. after that, I think some of
> system files were deleted and I can get into the system anymore.. it
> just hangs. after that, I've to reinstall knoppix, upgrading to sarge
> again, etc.
>
> After some reading, I thought to set my file system check interval to
> be every few days, every 3 mounts or 1 day. But, everytime, the root
> (/) file system was checked, at 90%, there are some errors. some time
> it was fixed with still some error, sometime it was clean. Until
> today, the file root (/) system is never really clean after reboot.
>
> I don't know what is wrong with my PC, some time, the system reported
> ext3fs error on console.. I can't remember the message.
>
> any help would be really appreciated. thanks.

I would recommend installing smartmontools and checking the health of your 
hard drive.  This many errors suggests hardware problems.  You should not 
need to check your drives once a day.

Justin Guerin


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Ext3 file system crash

2004-11-09 Thread Eddy Jacob 
Hi all,

Like the earlier post from other user, I also experienced this. I am
asking for help here or ideas.

I installed knoppix 3.4 to harddisk (debian based option), kernel
2.4.26, and using ext3 for all my file system. my etc/fstab:

# filesystem  mountpoint  type  options  dump  pass
/dev/hda7  /  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
/dev/hda9  /var  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
/dev/hda10  /tmp  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1
/dev/hda11  /home  ext3  defaults,errors=remount-ro  0  1

proc  /proc  proc  defaults  0  0
/dev/fd0  /floppy  autofs  defaults,user,noauto,showexec,umask=022  0  0
usbdevfs  /proc/bus/usb  usbdevfs  defaults  0  0
sysfs  /sys  sysfs  defaults  0  0

one day, suddenly, my / file system crash after reboot. and I have to
answer lots of yes.. to fix the error. after that, I think some of
system files were deleted and I can get into the system anymore.. it
just hangs. after that, I've to reinstall knoppix, upgrading to sarge
again, etc.

After some reading, I thought to set my file system check interval to
be every few days, every 3 mounts or 1 day. But, everytime, the root
(/) file system was checked, at 90%, there are some errors. some time
it was fixed with still some error, sometime it was clean. Until
today, the file root (/) system is never really clean after reboot.

I don't know what is wrong with my PC, some time, the system reported
ext3fs error on console.. I can't remember the message.

any help would be really appreciated. thanks.


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Re: EXT3 File system recovery

2003-12-01 Thread David Palmer. 
On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:58:37 -0500
"Matthew Kopishke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I am in desperate need of help.  I had two 60gb disks running in a
> RAID 1 using a Promise FastTrack IDE RAID card and the linux ATARaid
> support with a EXT3 FS (2.4.18).  Over the weekend, as far as I can
> tell, one of the drive died (it just clicks now) so the file system
> went read only and there it sat for a day.  My boss tried to restart
> the machine, and eventually must have done a hard reset.  When I got
> it the machine was stuck trying to do a fsck on the file system.
> 
> I pulled the dead drive and stuck the "good" one on a plain IDE
> channel, started off a CD and was able to mount the drive, look at a
> few files, and at that point I was pretty confident in the drive so I
> installed lilo with with the new device name and rebooted (no RAID). 
> The machine came up, started to do a fsck, and then said there were
> read errors.  I restarted off the CD and now I can't mount the file
> system.  I tried a fsdebug but it couldn't read the partition. I don't
> know what to do, I'm quite stuck.  This wouldn't be to much of an
> issue but the backup failed and I'm stuck sitting here with out my
> data from the database (mysql).
> 
> Can some one point in any direction?
> 
> (Oh, and I did try the "clunky" drive again as well)
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Matt

I'm just a newbie, Matt, and I'm sure you will get more qualified
opinions coming your way from people on the list.
A once off cure, long enough to obtain a copy of the drive goes like
this:-
Stick the drive in a freezer for 15 - 30 minutes, reinstall and copy.

I have never done it myself, but on another list some years ago this was
suggested, and it was endorsed by a couple of other list members. There
was an explanation, but I can't remember what it was now.
Save it as a last resort anyway.
Regards,

David


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EXT3 File system recovery

2003-12-01 Thread Matthew Kopishke 



Hi All,
 
I am in desperate need of help.  I had two 
60gb disks running in a RAID 1 using a Promise FastTrack IDE RAID card and the 
linux ATARaid support with a EXT3 FS (2.4.18).  Over the weekend, as far as 
I can tell, one of the drive died (it just clicks now) so the file system went 
read only and there it sat for a day.  My boss tried to restart the 
machine, and eventually must have done a hard reset.  When I got it the 
machine was stuck trying to do a fsck on the file system.
 
I pulled the dead drive and stuck the "good" one on 
a plain IDE channel, started off a CD and was able to mount the drive, look at a 
few files, and at that point I was pretty confident in the drive so I installed 
lilo with with the new device name and rebooted (no RAID).  The machine 
came up, started to do a fsck, and then said there were read errors.  I 
restarted off the CD and now I can't mount the file system.  I tried a 
fsdebug but it couldn't read the partition.
I don't know what to do, I'm quite stuck.  
This wouldn't be to much of an issue but the backup failed and I'm stuck sitting 
here with out my data from the database (mysql).
 
Can some one point in any direction?
 
(Oh, and I did try the "clunky" drive again as 
well)
 
Thank you!
 
Matt