Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-31 Thread Javier Barroso 
Hi,

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Stan Hoeppner  wrote:
> Andrei Popescu put forth on 12/30/2009 3:41 AM:
>
>> I prefer to ask dpkg about installed packages, it should know best ;)
>
> I find the aptitude show results more useful.  I have no idea what the first
> three lines of the dpkg -l output below are trying to tell me.
>
>
> :/# dpkg -l postfix
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: 
> uppercase=bad)
> ||/ Name                        Version                     Description
> +++-===-===-==
> ii  postfix                     2.5.5-1.1                   High-performance
> mail transport agent

These three lines are headers.

First 'i' in postfix line are saying to you that you desire to have
postfix installed
Second 'i' says that postfix is installed (this is the Status)
There is a third field wich is empty (none) which say you there is not
error with this package installation.

Regards,


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread lego12239 
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 04:13:43AM -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> Andrei Popescu put forth on 12/30/2009 3:41 AM:
> 
> > I prefer to ask dpkg about installed packages, it should know best ;)
> 
> I find the aptitude show results more useful.  I have no idea what the first
> three lines of the dpkg -l output below are trying to tell me.
> 
> 
> :/# dpkg -l postfix
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: 
> uppercase=bad)
> ||/ NameVersion Description
> +++-===-===-==
> ii  postfix 2.5.5-1.1   High-performance
> mail transport agent
> 

You just don't know debian packaging basics :-).

apt-* + dpkg - is very powerful and easy to use tandem.


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Consultores Agropecuarios 
El mié, 30-12-2009 a las 21:46 +0100, Javier Barroso escribió:
> Hi,
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Consultores Agropecuarios
>  wrote:
> > El mié, 30-12-2009 a las 00:20 +0100, Robert David escribió:
> >> Did you consider using aptitude as your main package manager?? It will 
> >> solve
> >> these problems easily. I just hold packages that I need to be hold and
> >> aptitude works great.
> >>
> >> I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday
> >> package management.
> >>
> >> Robert.
> >
> > I prefer apt-get and dselect, because they are simply clear. As example,
> > aptitude used the command # aptitude upgrade, but now it is aptitude
> > safe-upgrade; it is absolutely absurd, because the word "safe" can have
> > any meaning except safe! if i use safe-upgrade, it installs buggy
> > packages, then where is the safe-upgrade?

> safe-upgrade == aptitude won't install any new package, only will
> upgrade your packages to newer versions when it won't require
> installing new dependencies, which are less buggy generally than
> older.
> 

You are having troubles with "generally", which include by itself that
something "buggy" could go on it. And, again with "i prefer", it means,
"i have chosen", then i am not asking for your opinion or viewpoint!

> aptitude curses interface help you when you have many versions of the
> same package to choose the version and its deppends. Browsing packages
> there, is a great feature , you can sort packages with any criterion.
> You can also browse between various solutions if no one is the frankly
> winner.
> 
> With aptitude you can search even by maintainer, upgradable packages
> or many other criteria [1]
> 
> >
> > Another example is when i use apt-buglist or something similar; aptitude
> > offers me many unclear options, and the most options offered are totally
> > unclear.
> Reporting whishlist level bugs about that 'unclear' options could help
> to improve these options descriptions

Yes, but for the people who are interested on it; i am not one of them!

> 
> [1] 
> http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html
> 
> PD: Of course you can play minesweeper too :) :
> http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s05.html
> 
> 

PS:
I could not know, what part of the text should be eliminated.



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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Javier Barroso 
Hi,
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Sven Joachim  wrote:
> On 2009-12-30 21:46 +0100, Javier Barroso wrote:
>
>> safe-upgrade == aptitude won't install any new package, only will
>> upgrade your packages to newer versions when it won't require
>> installing new dependencies, which are less buggy generally than
>> older.
>
> Sorry, this is completely wrong.  Actually the reason for naming this
> command safe-upgrade rather than upgrade is that it _will_ install new
> dependencies, and it will also remove automatically installed packages
> that are no longer needed.  What it will not do is to remove packages
> that are marked as manually installed.
Sorry for the confusion :( and thank you very much for clarifications.

Thanks


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Sven Joachim 
On 2009-12-30 21:46 +0100, Javier Barroso wrote:

> safe-upgrade == aptitude won't install any new package, only will
> upgrade your packages to newer versions when it won't require
> installing new dependencies, which are less buggy generally than
> older.

Sorry, this is completely wrong.  Actually the reason for naming this
command safe-upgrade rather than upgrade is that it _will_ install new
dependencies, and it will also remove automatically installed packages
that are no longer needed.  What it will not do is to remove packages
that are marked as manually installed.

Actually this behavior is exactly what I want, as this handles most
transitions just fine without having to resort to the full-upgrade
(= dist-upgrade) command that can remove important packages if you're
not careful.

Sven


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Javier Barroso 
Hi,
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Consultores Agropecuarios
 wrote:
> El mié, 30-12-2009 a las 00:20 +0100, Robert David escribió:
>> Did you consider using aptitude as your main package manager?? It will solve
>> these problems easily. I just hold packages that I need to be hold and
>> aptitude works great.
>>
>> I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday
>> package management.
>>
>> Robert.
>
> I prefer apt-get and dselect, because they are simply clear. As example,
> aptitude used the command # aptitude upgrade, but now it is aptitude
> safe-upgrade; it is absolutely absurd, because the word "safe" can have
> any meaning except safe! if i use safe-upgrade, it installs buggy
> packages, then where is the safe-upgrade?
safe-upgrade == aptitude won't install any new package, only will
upgrade your packages to newer versions when it won't require
installing new dependencies, which are less buggy generally than
older.

aptitude curses interface help you when you have many versions of the
same package to choose the version and its deppends. Browsing packages
there, is a great feature , you can sort packages with any criterion.
You can also browse between various solutions if no one is the frankly
winner.

With aptitude you can search even by maintainer, upgradable packages
or many other criteria [1]

>
> Another example is when i use apt-buglist or something similar; aptitude
> offers me many unclear options, and the most options offered are totally
> unclear.
Reporting whishlist level bugs about that 'unclear' options could help
to improve these options descriptions

[1] http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html

PD: Of course you can play minesweeper too :) :
http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s05.html


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Consultores Agropecuarios 
El mié, 30-12-2009 a las 00:20 +0100, Robert David escribió:
> Did you consider using aptitude as your main package manager?? It will solve 
> these problems easily. I just hold packages that I need to be hold and 
> aptitude works great. 
> 
> I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday 
> package management.
> 
> Robert.

I prefer apt-get and dselect, because they are simply clear. As example,
aptitude used the command # aptitude upgrade, but now it is aptitude
safe-upgrade; it is absolutely absurd, because the word "safe" can have
any meaning except safe! if i use safe-upgrade, it installs buggy
packages, then where is the safe-upgrade? 

Another example is when i use apt-buglist or something similar; aptitude
offers me many unclear options, and the most options offered are totally
unclear. In short, i am not able to spend my time learning aptitude in
detail; i prefer simplicity, "Keep it simple stupid" 



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dpkg -l output (was: how to put packages on hold -- permanently)

2009-12-30 Thread Florian Kulzer 
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 04:13:43 -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

[...]

> I have no idea what the first
> three lines of the dpkg -l output below are trying to tell me.
> 
> 
> :/# dpkg -l postfix
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: 
> uppercase=bad)
> ||/ NameVersion Description
> +++-===-===-==

The header of the dpkg -l output tells you how to interpret the first
three characters in the listing for each package. The pipes and slashes
are meant as ascii art lines to indicate which position corresponds to
which line in the legend; the uppercase letters in the legend tell you
which character will be used as an abbreviation. In your example:

> ii  postfix 2.5.5-1.1   High-performance 
> mail transport agent

"ii " means Desired=Install, Status=Installed, Error=none; this is the
normal output for properly installed packages and easy to remember, but
if you need to understand less common cases then it is helpful to have
the legend included in the output.

-- 
Regards,|
  Florian   |


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Stan Hoeppner 
Andrei Popescu put forth on 12/30/2009 3:41 AM:

> I prefer to ask dpkg about installed packages, it should know best ;)

I find the aptitude show results more useful.  I have no idea what the first
three lines of the dpkg -l output below are trying to tell me.


:/# dpkg -l postfix
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ NameVersion Description
+++-===-===-==
ii  postfix 2.5.5-1.1   High-performance
mail transport agent


:/# aptitude show postfix
Package: postfix
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Version: 2.5.5-1.1
Priority: extra
Section: mail
Maintainer: LaMont Jones 
Uncompressed Size: 2793k
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libdb4.6, libsasl2-2, libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8f-5),
debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, netbase, adduser (>=
 3.48), dpkg (>= 1.8.3), lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), ssl-cert
Suggests: procmail, postfix-mysql, postfix-pgsql, postfix-ldap, postfix-pcre,
sasl2-bin, libsasl2-modules, resolvconf, postfix-cdb,
  mail-reader, ufw
Conflicts: libnss-db (< 2.2-3), mail-transport-agent, postfix-tls, smail
Replaces: mail-transport-agent, postfix-tls
Provides: mail-transport-agent, postfix-tls
Description: High-performance mail transport agent
 Postfix is Wietse Venema's mail transport agent that started life as an
alternative to the widely-used Sendmail program.  Postfix
 attempts to be fast, easy to administer, and secure, while at the same time
being sendmail compatible enough to not upset existing
 users. Thus, the outside has a sendmail-ish flavor, but the inside is
completely different.


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Aptitude (was: how to put packages on hold -- permanently)

2009-12-30 Thread Teemu Likonen 
On 2009-12-30 03:32 (-0600), Stan Hoeppner wrote:

> I started using aptitude after upgrading from Etch to Lenny. I now use
> it exclusively instead of apt-*. It's much more powerful and user
> friendly, and the package search function returns more relevant and
> limited results. For instance
>
> :/$ aptitude search postf
> :/$ apt-cache search postf
>
> aptitude only returns packages whose name contains "postf"

Obviously the relevance depends on your search terms - and aptitude has
more advanced search engine. For example, with

aptitude search '~dpostf'
aptitude search '?description(postf)'

you can search regexp "postf" from packages' descriptions. With

aptitude search '~Pmail-transport-agent'
aptitude search '?provides(mail-transport-agent)'

you can list packages which "Provides" meta package
mail-transport-agent.

See "Table 2.1" in /usr/share/aptitude/README file.


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Andrei Popescu 
On Wed,30.Dec.09, 03:32:02, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> Robert David put forth on 12/29/2009 5:20 PM:
> 
> > I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday 
> > package management.
> 
> I started using aptitude after upgrading from Etch to Lenny.  I now use it
> exclusively instead of apt-*.  It's much more powerful and user friendly, and
> the package search function returns more relevant and limited results.  For 
> instance
> 
> :/$ aptitude search postf
> :/$ apt-cache search postf
> 
> aptitude only returns packages whose name contains "postf"

Actually I prefer apt-cache for simple searches (use -n if you only want 
package names) because it's faster. aptitude can also search in 
descriptions (although slower than apt-cache), but it really shines if 
you are doing more complex searches.

I prefer to ask dpkg about installed packages, it should know best ;)

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Stan Hoeppner 
Robert David put forth on 12/29/2009 5:20 PM:

> I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday 
> package management.

I started using aptitude after upgrading from Etch to Lenny.  I now use it
exclusively instead of apt-*.  It's much more powerful and user friendly, and
the package search function returns more relevant and limited results.  For 
instance

:/$ aptitude search postf
:/$ apt-cache search postf

aptitude only returns packages whose name contains "postf"

apt-cache search returns the same ones containing "postf" but also all kinds of
stuff that is only tangentially related to "postfix", which apt-cache search
_assumes_ is what you're searching for.  In some circumstances I might prefer
the apt-cache search results, as these can inform you of packages you didn't
previously know about, and which are handy, such as pflogsumm, which doesn't
show up in the aptitude search results.  I suggest people play with both and
figure out which of the two works best in a given situation.  apt-* can still be
more useful in some circumstances.  Then again, maybe aptitude can do all the
same things with cli switches.  I've not played with it enough yet.  So far I
really like it.

Also, either I never became completely familiar with apt-* functions, or
aptitude show is completely new.  I love it.  I can get detailed package
information using it and find out if a package is currently installed or not.

--
Stan


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-30 Thread Lukas Ruf 
Dear all

sorry for being off thread.

Thanks for your help.  The hint by Andrei solved my problem.

In /etc/apt/preferences, I marked the packages as Prio *-1*:

  Package: nano
  Pin: release testing
  Pin-Priority: -1

  Package: aptitude
  Pin: release testing
  Pin-Priority: -1

  Package: tasksel
  Pin: release testing
  Pin-Priority: -1

  Package: tasksel-data
  Pin: release testing
  Pin-Priority: -1

and all the annoyances are gone.

The problem with "hold" is that the front-ends overrule the
package state for important packages, obviously.  Using dselect's
"=" or aptitude  hold did not solve my problem.

Regarding your question, Robert, why so many people still
use dselect and apt-get: ... because they simply prefer to.
When I started using Debian back in 1999, I became acquainted
with dselect -- as I have been using vim in xterm, and fvwm
since 1993. For me, this is one of the great advantages of
Debian to give the user the freedom to use what they prefer.

All the best for 2010!

wbr,
Lukas
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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-29 Thread Mark 
>>>
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Robert David  wrote:

I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday
package management.

Robert.
>>>

Probably because lots of official Debian on-line help says to use apt-get
(such as http://wiki.debian.org/MultimediaCodecs, and even the Installation
Manual here
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch08s03.html.en#id2770167).  If
the user is relatively new to Debian like me, they probably just followed
directions.

Mark

Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-29 Thread Robert David 
Did you consider using aptitude as your main package manager?? It will solve 
these problems easily. I just hold packages that I need to be hold and 
aptitude works great. 

I dont understand why so many people today use pure apt-get for everyday 
package management.

Robert.


Dne Út 29. prosince 2009 23:21:51 Lukas Ruf napsal(a):
> Dear all
> 
> Some packges, for example nano, tasksel, aptitude or
> texlive-pstricks-doc, I do not want to have installed.
> 
> However, when I set them on hold by
> 
>   echo nano hold | dpkg --set-selections
>   echo tasksel hold | dpkg --set-selections
>   echo aptitude  hold | dpkg --set-selections
>   echo texlive-pstricks-doc hold | dpkg --set-selections
> 
> the hold-settings are ignored by dselect or by apt-get.
> 
> Is there anywhere a setting that I can make dselect and apt-get obey
> to my hold-settings permanently?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> wbr,
> Lukas
> 


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-29 Thread Javier Barroso 
Hi,

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Lukas Ruf  wrote:
> Dear all
>
> Some packges, for example nano, tasksel, aptitude or
> texlive-pstricks-doc, I do not want to have installed.
>
> However, when I set them on hold by
>
>  echo nano hold | dpkg --set-selections
>  echo tasksel hold | dpkg --set-selections
>  echo aptitude  hold | dpkg --set-selections
>  echo texlive-pstricks-doc hold | dpkg --set-selections
>
> the hold-settings are ignored by dselect or by apt-get.
>
> Is there anywhere a setting that I can make dselect and apt-get obey
> to my hold-settings permanently?
Try instruction from Debian FAQ (use = in dselect or complete set selections):
http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkg_basics.en.html#s-puttingonhold

But maybe necessary use pinning, I don't known if you can hold a
package which is not installed. May be giving it a "1" value in its
pinning do the trick.

Regards,


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Re: how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-29 Thread Andrei Popescu 
On Tue,29.Dec.09, 23:21:51, Lukas Ruf wrote:
> Dear all
> 
> Some packges, for example nano, tasksel, aptitude or
> texlive-pstricks-doc, I do not want to have installed.
 
[...]

> Is there anywhere a setting that I can make dselect and apt-get obey
> to my hold-settings permanently?

You could pin them to a value less than 0, see 'man apt_preferences' for 
details.

Regards,
Andrei
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how to put packages on hold -- permanently

2009-12-29 Thread Lukas Ruf 
Dear all

Some packges, for example nano, tasksel, aptitude or
texlive-pstricks-doc, I do not want to have installed.

However, when I set them on hold by

  echo nano hold | dpkg --set-selections
  echo tasksel hold | dpkg --set-selections
  echo aptitude  hold | dpkg --set-selections
  echo texlive-pstricks-doc hold | dpkg --set-selections

the hold-settings are ignored by dselect or by apt-get.

Is there anywhere a setting that I can make dselect and apt-get obey
to my hold-settings permanently?

Thanks

wbr,
Lukas
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