Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On 11/02/14 01:04, Hendrik Boom wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:47:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
Hendrik Boom wrote:
I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with
revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm
editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map.
[snip]
You didn't say much about your actual drawing mixture.
I'd probably be willing to adapt my drawing style to the technology that
works with my revision control. The drawings I'm interested in are
development tools for for novels or computer programs. One might be
block diagrams of the main components of a program and their
relationships. Another might be a picture of the main character of a
story, or a map of the country, or the layout of a character's house.
These are working drawings than high art. And they're not static. Oh, I
don't mean they're animations... I mean that as the months go by, they
need to be changed, as my understanding of the things they represent
changes.
I that case I would recommend you look at latex and specifically
\tikzpicture. The NODE feature of \tikz allows you to get shapes from a
shape library and then link them with arrows.
I have been using latex for a while as my documentation engine of
choice, with the raw text markup going into the repository.
Take a look at this manual - it is organised so there is an introductory
tutorial first, with more detailed references later.
http://mirrors.ctan.org/graphics/pgf/base/doc/generic/pgf/pgfmanual.pdf
I currently use sublime text 2 as my editor, and with the latex plugin a
ctrl-B builds the document as a pdf almost instantenously.
I have also developed a house style hartley.cls (My one man
consultancy is called Hartley Consultants) for my documents which I
installed in ~/texmf/tex/latex/hartley.cls. Now at the top of each
document all I have to do is say
\documentclass{hartley}
and I get a standard format (article like) document
just to give a flavour of the picture drawing capability (unusable
unless you include
\usetikzlibrary{fit,positioning,decorations.pathmorphing} at the top
of the whole document) - here is a picture of 3 computers (one outside
the home, 2 inside) with a load of applications drawn inside each There
is a router, called superhub which links inside to out, and there is a
wiggly line (see snake) separating inside and out.
The line
%\draw[help lines] (0,-7) grid(12,7);
is commented out (% represents rest of line is a comment) but I used as
I was building up the drawing to provide a grid behind the picture so I
could see where I was placing things.
\begin{figure}
\begin{tikzpicture} [font=\footnotesize,inner
sep=0.1cm,rectangle,remember picture,node distance=0.1cm,
machine/.style={fill=blue!30,inner sep=0.2cm},
machinename/.style={font=\sffamily},
servicename/.style={font=\itshape,text width=1.5cm},
application/.style={draw,text width=2cm,text badly centered,rounded
corners,fill=white},
panel/.style={rectangle,text width=2.5cm},
service/.style={rectangle,draw,thin,text badly centered,text
width=1cm,fill=white},
point/.style=coordinate,
applicationstack/.style={draw,thick,text width=2.5cm,rounded
corners,fill=white}]
%\draw[help lines] (0,-7) grid(12,7);
% avalon
\node[machinename] (avalon) at(3,7) {Avalon};
\node (avalonapps) [below=of avalon] {\tikz {
\node[application,text width=2.5cm] (web) {\tikz {
\node[servicename] (http) {http};
\node[application] (hc) [below=of http]{Hartley Consultants};
\node[application] (cf) [below=of hc] {Chandler Family};
\node[application] (multiple) [below=of cf] {Multiple Clients};
}};
\node[application] (httpsservices) [below right=0.2cm of
web.north east] {\tikz {
\node[servicename](https) {https};
\node[application,text width=1.5cm](planner) [below= of
https]{Planner};
}};
\node[application](chat)[below=of httpsservices] {Chat Server};
\node[application](mx) [below=of chat] {Mail Forwarding};
}};
% boundary and superhub
\node[point](leftside) at(0,0){};
\node[point](rightside) at (12,0){};
\node [application,text width= 2.7cm,fill=red!20] (superhub) at
(4,0) {\tikz {
\node[servicename] (superh) {Super Hub};
\node[application] (firewall) [below=of superh] {Firewall};
\node (hubservices) [below=of firewall] {\tikz {
\node[service] (nat) {NAT};
\node[service] (dhcp) [below=of nat] {\sout{DHCP}};
\node[service] (fwd) [below right=of nat.north east] {Port
Fwd};
}};
}};
\draw[decorate,decoration={snake,post length=2mm}]
(leftside) -- (superhub);
\draw[decorate,decoration={snake,post length=2mm}]
(rightside) -- (superhub);
\node[machinename,above left=of rightside]{External Internet};
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
just to give a flavour of the picture drawing capability (unusable
unless you include
\usetikzlibrary{fit,positioning,decorations.pathmorphing} at the top
of the whole document) - here is
I forgot - my hartley.cls file also uses tikz picture (I draw some
coloured lines (actually rectangles) at the bottom of the page and there
is an option to print a light DRAFT across the page diagonally - so you
will also need to include
\usepackage{tikz}
to bring in the whole drawing package
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Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On 2014-02-10 13:46, Darac Marjal wrote: Diff'ing images would probably want to involve a viewer that can flick between the two images (as one would do in astronomy) as well as, perhaps, showing the difference in the 'code' (perhaps the only difference is compression). I use Beyond Compare for this and many other things like syncing FTPs, comparing/merging trees, analyzing changes, migrating home folders... Its image comparing mode is especially cool, try it out or see product page[1]. [1]: http://www.scootersoftware.com/moreinfo.php?zz=moreinfo_viewers It's paid, but really worth the money, and has month evaluation period. Thanks. aL. -- Alois Mahdal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1984a367a0260f4a7d4c061a8d93b...@zxcvb.cz
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On 11/02/2014 03:45, Hendrik Boom wrote: But maybe it stands to reason that anything in raster graphics that satisfies my requirements would be bulky. You are facing a similar problem to encoding attachments for email: trying to squeeze 8-bits-per-byte data into a 7-bits-per-byte medium, so some bloat is sadly unavoidable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52fa2e20.7040...@debian.org
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 13:55 +0100, Alois Mahdal wrote: On 2014-02-10 13:46, Darac Marjal wrote: Diff'ing images would probably want to involve a viewer that can flick between the two images (as one would do in astronomy) as well as, perhaps, showing the difference in the 'code' (perhaps the only difference is compression). I use Beyond Compare for this and many other things like syncing FTPs, comparing/merging trees, analyzing changes, migrating home folders... I can second the recommendation of Beyond Compare for all the above uses. I consider it one of most essential tools I use and is the only commercial closed-source software I've ever purchased. (Well, I've paid the Microsoft tax when buying PC's but that wasn't really by choice.) -- Tixy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1392157847.3015.11.ca...@computer5.home
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 05:37:49PM +, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:47:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. [snip] You didn't say much about your actual drawing mixture. You might get some ideas by looking at details of *EARLY* versions of HPGL and PostScript. A couple of quick links from Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPGL https://www.swiftview.com/pclcorner/pclcorner1.htm I'm drawing on memories circa Win 3.1 and CPM-80 . HTH YMMV ;/ AH! The days before widespread revision control! HPGL looks like it would fit the bill, for line drawings, anyway. If I could get an off-the-shelf editor to read it and write it, anyway. It dose seem to be more like object code than source code, so to speak. It would work with revision control if I could put in newlines instead of semicolons. Or modify the revision control system to accept semicolons and treat them as it now handles newlines. Really, it should be possible for a revision control to understand file types and know what's special about them. I believe that *is* possible, but it's either not widely done or perhaps it just needs the right configuration set. For example, the Tortoise* front-ends on Windows (TortoiseGit, TortoiseSVN etc) can spot Microsoft Word documents (due to their mime-type) and, rather than invoking the usual diff program to show differences, will launch Word in a Document Compare mode. Diff'ing images would probably want to involve a viewer that can flick between the two images (as one would do in astronomy) as well as, perhaps, showing the difference in the 'code' (perhaps the only difference is compression). How you invoke per-mime-type diff programs will, of course, depend on your VCS. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
Others have mentioned SVG - which, if you can prevent it being compressed, might fit the bill; also PNM for raster images. A more recent but lesser-known is SNG - a text-based format isomorphic with PNG. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140210145242.ga27...@bryant.redmars.org
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:47:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. [snip] You didn't say much about your actual drawing mixture. I'd probably be willing to adapt my drawing style to the technology that works with my revision control. The drawings I'm interested in are development tools for for novels or computer programs. One might be block diagrams of the main components of a program and their relationships. Another might be a picture of the main character of a story, or a map of the country, or the layout of a character's house. These are working drawings than high art. And they're not static. Oh, I don't mean they're animations... I mean that as the months go by, they need to be changed, as my understanding of the things they represent changes. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ldbsuo$9ks$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On 02/09/2014 03:28 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. The X PixMap (.xpm) format may work for you. It is based upon C source code. I don't know which image editors support it directly, but the convert program from the Imagemagick suite will read and write it. Mark Neyhart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52f98021.6060...@akleg.gov
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:42:57 -0900, Mark Neyhart wrote: On 02/09/2014 03:28 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. The X PixMap (.xpm) format may work for you. It is based upon C source code. I don't know which image editors support it directly, but the convert program from the Imagemagick suite will read and write it. It seems ... well, bulky. But maybe it stands to reason that anything in raster graphics that satisfies my requirements would be bulky. -- hendrik Mark Neyhart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ldc6cc$9ks$2...@ger.gmane.org
images that play nicely with revision control?
I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. And I'd like to keep the whole thing under revision control (like monotone, or git, or such. Currently I use monotone). But any kind of compressed file format is probably not going to cut it. Revision control seems to be designed for program text, with lots of newlines in stable places. If all else fails, and I get desperate I could even store my images as programs in, say, Scheme or C or some such, and run the code to see the image. But that would make editing difficult. And in that case, I'd like recommendations to graphics libraries that can output to a variety of formats, such as onto the screen, into a jpeg file, to svg or html format, or some such. I would definitely prefer not to write a whole new image editor from scratch. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ld7s9t$knr$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 12:28:45PM +, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. I think that doesn't exist. At least not for all kind of images. SVG is basically an XML file. There you can at least compare the xml content. But that however is also very tricky, you might need something which converts it first into canonical xml and the compare/store it. But that is only efficient for vector images. For bitmap images that wouldn't work. And I'd like to keep the whole thing under revision control (like monotone, or git, or such. Currently I use monotone). But any kind of compressed file format is probably not going to cut it. Revision control seems to be designed for program text, with lots of newlines in stable places. If all else fails, and I get desperate I could even store my images as programs in, say, Scheme or C or some such, and run the code to see the image. But that would make editing difficult. And in that case, I'd like recommendations to graphics libraries that can output to a variety of formats, such as onto the screen, into a jpeg file, to svg or html format, or some such. That approach is close to what adobe does. They basically have a master image. They store with that image every change. That is how Lightroom handles changes. This of course can be very demanding on cpu/gpu. Because everytime you load the picture you have to apply all the changes to the master, render it and display it. I would definitely prefer not to write a whole new image editor from scratch. -H -- Henning Follmann | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140209130756.gb11...@newton.itcfollmann.com
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 08:07:57 -0500, Henning Follmann wrote: On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 12:28:45PM +, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. I think that doesn't exist. That's what I suspected. But I asked in the hope that there was something I hadn't heard of yet. At least not for all kind of images. SVG is basically an XML file. There you can at least compare the xml content. But that however is also very tricky, you might need something which converts it first into canonical xml and the compare/store it. But that is only efficient for vector images. For bitmap images that wouldn't work. And XML can be difficult to do revision-merging on, even if furnished with lots of newlines -- what the merge algorithm considers a perfectly acceptable merge may end up violating XML's large-scale bracket matching. Which means the user gets to worry about how his picture is coded, in exasperating detail. But with some restricted limited-nesting XML files it might be made to work. But I can imagine bitmaps to be mergable, if not compressed, and if enouth newlines are inserted in standard places, such as between scan lines. Still, better techniques ought to be possible. And I'd like to keep the whole thing under revision control (like monotone, or git, or such. Currently I use monotone). But any kind of compressed file format is probably not going to cut it. Revision control seems to be designed for program text, with lots of newlines in stable places. If all else fails, and I get desperate I could even store my images as programs in, say, Scheme or C or some such, and run the code to see the image. But that would make editing difficult. And in that case, I'd like recommendations to graphics libraries that can output to a variety of formats, such as onto the screen, into a jpeg file, to svg or html format, or some such. That approach is close to what adobe does. They basically have a master image. They store with that image every change. That is how Lightroom handles changes. This of course can be very demanding on cpu/gpu. Because everytime you load the picture you have to apply all the changes to the master, render it and display it. So the change could sconsist of adding a bunch of code into the existing file. And theh reverse change would consist of deleting it. Maybe non- conflicting merging would even work. But the proper test for conflicts would be whether the two changesets affected the same part of the image. Unless someone comes up with something else, it looks like a topic for further research. And about compression? It may turn out that the space saved by not duplicating parts of an image that didn't change may outweigh the space lost by not compressing. -- hendrik I would definitely prefer not to write a whole new image editor from scratch. -H -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ld89eg$k27$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. [snip] You didn't say much about your actual drawing mixture. You might get some ideas by looking at details of *EARLY* versions of HPGL and PostScript. A couple of quick links from Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPGL https://www.swiftview.com/pclcorner/pclcorner1.htm I'm drawing on memories circa Win 3.1 and CPM-80 . HTH YMMV ;/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52f7b10f.7000...@cloud85.net
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 10:47:11 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote: Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. [snip] You didn't say much about your actual drawing mixture. You might get some ideas by looking at details of *EARLY* versions of HPGL and PostScript. A couple of quick links from Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPGL https://www.swiftview.com/pclcorner/pclcorner1.htm I'm drawing on memories circa Win 3.1 and CPM-80 . HTH YMMV ;/ AH! The days before widespread revision control! HPGL looks like it would fit the bill, for line drawings, anyway. If I could get an off-the-shelf editor to read it and write it, anyway. It dose seem to be more like object code than source code, so to speak. It would work with revision control if I could put in newlines instead of semicolons. Or modify the revision control system to accept semicolons and treat them as it now handles newlines. Really, it should be possible for a revision control to understand file types and know what's special about them. One workaround is to write some code that transforms between a revision- friendly HPGl and regular HPGL in both directions, to use the revision- friendly HPGL as checked-in source code, and to turn an existing editor into one for this format by a shell command that converts back and forth ... Come to think of it, this might work with a lot of the other graphics file formats. As long as they don't contain arbitrary identifiers that change with every edit. I must investigate. I've faced the same problem with word-processor file formats, actually. At the moment the solution seems to be systems like markdown and asciidoc. But it's easier there because marked-up ASCII text is a lot closer to the format in which the final document is presented. It's still text, after all. There's opportunity for some low-level research here. -- hendrik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ld8edd$k27$2...@ger.gmane.org
Re: images that play nicely with revision control?
Hi On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 08:07:57AM -0500, Henning Follmann wrote: On Sun, Feb 09, 2014 at 12:28:45PM +, Hendrik Boom wrote: I'm looking for a file format for images that plays nicely with revision control. Ideally I'd like to edit them while seeing what I'm editing, whether it's a line drawing (like inkscape) or a pixel map. I think that doesn't exist. At least not for all kind of images. SVG is basically an XML file. There you can at least compare the xml content. But that however is also very tricky, you might need something which converts it first into canonical xml and the compare/store it. But that is only efficient for vector images. For bitmap images that wouldn't work. For bitmap images, you *could* resort to storing them in PBM format - which happens to be pure text and easy to parse[1]. The netpbm package contains tools for converting to/from a plethora of formats. And to do basic command-line manipulation of images. For viewing the image, the normal Gnome tools understand PBM - e.g. eog will happily show them, and nautilus will show you thumbnails. Not sure about other file managers... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netpbm_format -- Karl E. Jorgensen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20140209175855.GA30686@hawking
