Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:24:01 -0500
Ken Heard  dijo:

>John Jason Jordan wrote:

>> Windows users (especially) are terrified of malware. As well they
>> ought to be, considering the OS they run. My CD with Ubuntu-32
>> written on it with a sharpie did not impress them. But later I
>> acquired some Ubuntu CDs from Ubuntu nicely printed. With these I
>> finally had several people try the CD, and two are now running Linux.
>
>So it is all in the packaging?  Your sharpie they did not trust, but a
>CD made by you but with the pretty Ubuntu picture put there by you on
>the same CD download as the one with the sharpie they did trust.  How
>naive can people be?

I was once working with a graduate student on a project using her
Windows computer. In the course of our work I couldn't help mention
Linux. She said "I'd love to try it, but I can't because my husband
used up all the memory."

I do not believe it is possible to underestimate the computer knowledge
of the masses.


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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Eduardo M KALINOWSKI 

On Sex, 03 Dez 2010, Ken Heard wrote:

So it is all in the packaging?  Your sharpie they did not trust, but a
CD made by you but with the pretty Ubuntu picture put there by you on
the same CD download as the one with the sharpie they did trust.  How
naive can people be?


They're so naive in this sense that there is a whole field of study  
dedicated to that, called "marketing".



--
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-- Chicago Reader 10/15/82

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edua...@kalinowski.com.br


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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Ken Heard 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Jason Jordan wrote:

> As a university graduate student I come in contact with a lot of people
> who see my computer running Linux. This gives me an opportunity to
> introduce them to Linux. In the past I always carried an Ubuntu-32 live
> CD to hand them. After handing out several and finding that no one even
> tried the live CD I started asking some of the ones that I had given
> the CDs to why. Their response was universally that they were afraid
> the CD contained a virus.
> 
> Windows users (especially) are terrified of malware. As well they ought
> to be, considering the OS they run. My CD with Ubuntu-32 written on it
> with a sharpie did not impress them. But later I acquired some Ubuntu
> CDs from Ubuntu nicely printed. With these I finally had several people
> try the CD, and two are now running Linux.

So it is all in the packaging?  Your sharpie they did not trust, but a
CD made by you but with the pretty Ubuntu picture put there by you on
the same CD download as the one with the sharpie they did trust.  How
naive can people be?

Ken Heard
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Joey Hess 
John Jason Jordan wrote:
> I'm not suggesting that Debian needs to be on a fancy, professional CD,
> because Debian is not really aiming at the newbie Linux user like
> Ubuntu. I'm just saying that a professionally created CD enhances your
> credibility.

http://www.debian.org/CD/artwork/

-- 
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. 
In <1291365913.1496...@compax>, Klistvud wrote:
>Dne, 03. 12. 2010 09:12:48 je Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. napisal(a):
>>  Getting in contact with the release team
>> 
>> might get Eric a SHA before the official release date though, so that
>> the
>> jewel case inserts can be prepared and released at the same time as
>> the
>> images.
>
>??? Isn't SHA bound to change with *every* fresh ISO build (even if
>just one bit of just one package is changed) ???

Yes.  I'm not too familiar with the Debian release process, but I imagine 
there is some period of time between the ISO build and it actually being 
available from the CD mirrors and advertised on the website.  During such a 
window, it may be possible to build the jewel case insert.

As an analogue, the various distribution packaging teams that are in contact 
with the KDE[1] release team get release tarballs up to a week before they are 
publicized.  This is done so that when the official release occurs, KDE can 
point users at distribution-provided packages made from the official tarballs 
which serve most users better than downloading the official tarballs 
themselves.  This allows for a relatively big, sudden release "event", rather 
than a trickle of official tarballs on day 1, a half-dozen PPAs and OBS 
packages on days 2-3, a Fedora RPM that some user try on their OpenSUSE system 
to much failure on day 4, and official packages from (irate) maintainers on 
days 5-6.  (They are irate because some users have been bugging them over-and-
over for a week that their distribution is dying because they don't have the 
latest KDE SC release but not sharing the [sometimes significant] work that 
goes into a new release of a software package as large as KDE SC.)  (It takes 
them 6 days instead of 3 for the same reason, plus the KDE mirrors are 
overloaded the entire time.)

So, probably there is *already* a post-build, pre-publication time window for 
the CD images that Eric might be able to fit into for producing high-quality 
jewel case inserts.

[1] I'm not picking on KDE, I imagine other projects of the same size might 
have similar procedures.  Really, it's a per-project preference.  Some 
projects may not be bothered by the "trickle effect" or see more value in 
getting the official release tarballs out ASAP.
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Klistvud 

Dne, 03. 12. 2010 09:12:48 je Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. napisal(a):

 Getting in contact with the release team
might get Eric a SHA before the official release date though, so that  
the
jewel case inserts can be prepared and released at the same time as  
the

images.


??? Isn't SHA bound to change with *every* fresh ISO build (even if  
just one bit of just one package is changed) ???


--
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Klistvud  
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Certifiable Loonix User #481801  Please reply to the list, not to  
me.



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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Klistvud 

Dne, 03. 12. 2010 09:11:44 je John Jason Jordan napisal(a):


Regarding Lightscribe, I built myself a desktop a couple years ago and
paid a couple bucks extra for DVD drives with Lightscribe. Eventually  
I

got them working under Linux. And then I discovered that they do only
grayscale, and at a very low resolution at that. And the media cost
almost twice as much as regular media.


+1

And I suspect using Lightscribe additionally, and perhaps severely,  
shortens your laser life -- a real bad tradeoff for some barely  
visible, pale, rudimentary greyscale graphics. I ceased using  
Lightscribe a long time ago too.


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me.



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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. 
In <4cf89fa2.2010...@optonline.net>, Doug wrote:
>I have found that Light-Scribe is a surer way to know what's on a disk, and
>if you're into jewel cases, you can read right thru the empty top.

While a LightScribe image would be nice, I prefer a jewel case insert.  Last 
time I checked LightScribe software was still only in the domain of 
Proprietary Software.

>Your idea of distributing them alongside the distro is a good one, but
>the problem I see is that most folks will just d/l the .iso, and never
>notice
>the jewelcase insert.

Well, that's fine.  Not everyone wants / needs a jewel case insert.  
(Although, if their size is sufficiently small, they should probably be 
included in the torrent.)  Distributing them along-side the images would also 
enable some "advertising" of them , 
 and maybe 
.
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Andrei Popescu 
On Vi, 03 dec 10, 02:06:56, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> On Friday, December 03, 2010 01:35:21 you wrote:
> >Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. writes:
> >] In <87r5dz4eta@ixian.com>, Eric De Mund wrote:
> >] >Hello. Jewelcase insert made for myself so that the disc's SHA512
> >] >checksum and size were both right on the front, easy for me to see.
> >]
> >] Have you considered collaborat-
> >] ing with the release team to distribute there along-side the CD images
> >] themselves?
> >
> >Well, I've thought about it, but I honestly didn't know whom to contact.
> >Now that you've mentioned a release team, do they have an email address?
> 
> They have a mailing list.  Something like debian-rele...@l.d.o.  If you can't 
> discover it on the website, I'm sure a quick query to debian-de...@l.d.o 
> should get you the address(es) of the right people.

Hmm, wouldn't debian-cd be better?

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread John Jason Jordan 
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 02:43:30 -0500
Doug  dijo:

>I have found that Light-Scribe is a surer way to know what's on a
>disk, and if you're into jewel cases, you can read right thru the
>empty top.
>
>Your idea of distributing them alongside the distro is a good one, but
>the problem I see is that most folks will just d/l the .iso, and never 
>notice the jewelcase insert.

As a university graduate student I come in contact with a lot of people
who see my computer running Linux. This gives me an opportunity to
introduce them to Linux. In the past I always carried an Ubuntu-32 live
CD to hand them. After handing out several and finding that no one even
tried the live CD I started asking some of the ones that I had given
the CDs to why. Their response was universally that they were afraid
the CD contained a virus.

Windows users (especially) are terrified of malware. As well they ought
to be, considering the OS they run. My CD with Ubuntu-32 written on it
with a sharpie did not impress them. But later I acquired some Ubuntu
CDs from Ubuntu nicely printed. With these I finally had several people
try the CD, and two are now running Linux.

I'm not suggesting that Debian needs to be on a fancy, professional CD,
because Debian is not really aiming at the newbie Linux user like
Ubuntu. I'm just saying that a professionally created CD enhances your
credibility.

Regarding Lightscribe, I built myself a desktop a couple years ago and
paid a couple bucks extra for DVD drives with Lightscribe. Eventually I
got them working under Linux. And then I discovered that they do only
grayscale, and at a very low resolution at that. And the media cost
almost twice as much as regular media. Bah. If you really want nice
looking CDs to hand out, get an inkjet that can do CDs or, if you have
enough volume to justify the cost, send them out to be done
professionally. 

If all you want is something to hand out at the next meeting of your
Linux user group, a CD labeled with a sharpie is fine. Linux users are
not impressed by glitz anyway.


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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. 
In <20101203080012.gi3...@think.homelan>, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>On Vi, 03 dec 10, 02:44:20, Doug wrote:
>> It seems to me that Eric should be making covers for Squeeze, since it
>> has now been finalized.  At this point, I would think that anyone who
>> wants to load a Debian distro would immediately use the latest stable
>> version, which is Squeeze.
>
>Did I miss some announcement? (quickly checking debian-announce...) No,
>squeeze is not released yet. And because of that the SHA512 checksum can
>not be included ;)

Yeah, I had to double-check, too.  According to 
, Lenny is still stable.  Squeeze is 
due out RSN, but not quite yet.[1]  Getting in contact with the release team 
might get Eric a SHA before the official release date though, so that the 
jewel case inserts can be prepared and released at the same time as the 
images.

The reason this comes up now is because Lenny recently got another point 
release, so new ISOs need to be downloaded and loaded into jewel cases.

[1] It is frozen, but it's been that way for months.  If you want it sooner, 
better start squashing RC bugs!
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. 
On Friday, December 03, 2010 01:35:21 you wrote:
>Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. writes:
>] In <87r5dz4eta@ixian.com>, Eric De Mund wrote:
>] >Hello. Jewelcase insert made for myself so that the disc's SHA512
>] >checksum and size were both right on the front, easy for me to see.
>]
>] Have you considered collaborat-
>] ing with the release team to distribute there along-side the CD images
>] themselves?
>
>Well, I've thought about it, but I honestly didn't know whom to contact.
>Now that you've mentioned a release team, do they have an email address?

They have a mailing list.  Something like debian-rele...@l.d.o.  If you can't 
discover it on the website, I'm sure a quick query to debian-de...@l.d.o 
should get you the address(es) of the right people.
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-03 Thread Andrei Popescu 
On Vi, 03 dec 10, 02:44:20, Doug wrote:
> It seems to me that Eric should be making covers for Squeeze, since it
> has now been finalized.  At this point, I would think that anyone who
> wants to load a Debian distro would immediately use the latest stable
> version, which is Squeeze.

Did I miss some announcement? (quickly checking debian-announce...) No, 
squeeze is not released yet. And because of that the SHA512 checksum can 
not be included ;)

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-02 Thread Doug 

On 12/03/2010 02:23 AM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

In<87r5dz4eta@ixian.com>, Eric De Mund wrote:

Hello. Jewelcase insert made for myself so that the disc's SHA512
checksum and size were both right on the front, easy for me to see.
Perhaps others, too, might find it useful.

You know, I don't use these, but I do find it interesting and potentially
useful that they are available.  Have you considered collaborating with the
release team to distribute there along-side the CD images themselves?

It seems to me that Eric should be making covers for Squeeze, since it
has now been finalized.  At this point, I would think that anyone who
wants to load a Debian distro would immediately use the latest stable
version, which is Squeeze.

I have found that Light-Scribe is a surer way to know what's on a disk, and
if you're into jewel cases, you can read right thru the empty top.

Your idea of distributing them alongside the distro is a good one, but
the problem I see is that most folks will just d/l the .iso, and never 
notice

the jewelcase insert.

--doug

--
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M. Greeley


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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-02 Thread Doug 

On 12/03/2010 02:23 AM, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

In<87r5dz4eta@ixian.com>, Eric De Mund wrote:

Hello. Jewelcase insert made for myself so that the disc's SHA512
checksum and size were both right on the front, easy for me to see.
Perhaps others, too, might find it useful.

You know, I don't use these, but I do find it interesting and potentially
useful that they are available.  Have you considered collaborating with the
release team to distribute there along-side the CD images themselves?

It seems to me that Eric should be making covers for Squeeze, since it
has now been finalized.  At this point, I would think that anyone who
wants to load a Debian distro would immediately use the latest stable
version, which is Squeeze.

I have found that Light-Scribe is a surer way to know what's on a disk, and
if you're into jewel cases, you can read right thru the empty top.

Your idea of distributing them alongside the distro is a good one, but
the problem I see is that most folks will just d/l the .iso, and never 
notice

the jewelcase insert.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. 
M. Greeley


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Re: jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-02 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. 
In <87r5dz4eta@ixian.com>, Eric De Mund wrote:
>Hello. Jewelcase insert made for myself so that the disc's SHA512
>checksum and size were both right on the front, easy for me to see.
>Perhaps others, too, might find it useful.

You know, I don't use these, but I do find it interesting and potentially 
useful that they are available.  Have you considered collaborating with the 
release team to distribute there along-side the CD images themselves?
-- 
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jewelcase insert for 5.0.7 "Lenny" Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD

2010-12-02 Thread Eric De Mund 
All,

Hello. Jewelcase insert made for myself so that the disc's SHA512
checksum and size were both right on the front, easy for me to see.
Perhaps others, too, might find it useful.

Text on cover reads:

---
   Debian GNU/Linux
  5.0.7 "Lenny"
 Official i386 xfce+lxde-CD
Binary-1 20101127-17:29


   % dd if= bs=1024
  count=662132 | sha512sum --binary

   908b dcf9 e751 03d1 
5355 27f3 89c8 e38f
   11f1 5876 abac 3c4f 
6a3e dbf9 6323 a7d2
   3353 a531 19c6 d932 
f301 e679 54f5 456c
   0d4f c2a8 107b 31d4 
b1bd ef95 b5d6 e35d

*debian-507-i386-xfce+lxde-CD-1.iso
 678,023,168 bytes (646 MB)


  CD 1 of 1
---

OpenOffice and PDF versions available for download from:

http://ixian.com/ead/tmp/debian-507-i386-xfce+lxde-CD-1.odt
http://ixian.com/ead/tmp/debian-507-i386-xfce+lxde-CD-1.pdf

Use them in good health,
Eric
--
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e...@ixian.com


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