Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[ronin2]

Let me recommend you also look into modconf for configuring modules, and
the various update scripts. (I went to /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, and
/usr/sbin and did ls |grep update to find them all. In particular see
update-alternatives.

You'll be a much happier debianese if you know where these things are and
what they do. g

Kevin

On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 04:34:23 +
Pigeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 02:17:51AM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
  On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 12:05:36AM +, Pigeon wrote:
   On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:19:36PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
Install DNS caching software on the gateway (the modem box).  Have
all internal machines use the gateway as their nameserver (use a
static resolv.conf).  You can use BIND as a caching only
nameserver, and of course there are other choices like dnsmasq,
maradns, pdnsd, and DJB's dnscache.
   
   dnsmasq does the trick, is dead easy to get running and would have
   taken me a lot longer to find without this message.
  
  In that case, let me introduce you to the apt-cache command, from
  the apt package (IOW you almost certainly have it installed).  Try
  this:
  
apt-cache search dns
  
  Cool, eh?  apt-cache requires no special permissions and can do all
  sorts of cool things.  I find that I use search, show, and
  showpkg quite frequently.  Note that the search term is a real
  regex, not a glob.
  
  I used the results of the above command when I composed my earlier
  reply; it took me a minute or so to vgrep the output.
 
 Cool indeed! I am rather new to the wonders of apt, having only
 recently upgraded to woody from a slink installation which was so out
 of date that trying to apt-get anything would have resulted in
 downloading most of woody via dialup. Now I can use it safely, I
 understand why everyone raves about it.
 
 Thanks,
 Pigeon
 
 
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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Nathan E Norman]

On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 12:05:36AM +, Pigeon wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:19:36PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
  Install DNS caching software on the gateway (the modem box).  Have all
  internal machines use the gateway as their nameserver (use a static
  resolv.conf).  You can use BIND as a caching only nameserver, and of
  course there are other choices like dnsmasq, maradns, pdnsd, and DJB's
  dnscache.
 
 dnsmasq does the trick, is dead easy to get running and would have
 taken me a lot longer to find without this message.

In that case, let me introduce you to the apt-cache command, from
the apt package (IOW you almost certainly have it installed).  Try
this:

  apt-cache search dns

Cool, eh?  apt-cache requires no special permissions and can do all
sorts of cool things.  I find that I use search, show, and
showpkg quite frequently.  Note that the search term is a real
regex, not a glob.

I used the results of the above command when I composed my earlier
reply; it took me a minute or so to vgrep the output.

-- 
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Whenever men attempt to suppress argument and free speech, we may
  be sure that they know their cause to be a bad one.
  -- R. G. Horton


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 02:17:51AM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 12:05:36AM +, Pigeon wrote:
  On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:19:36PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
   Install DNS caching software on the gateway (the modem box).  Have all
   internal machines use the gateway as their nameserver (use a static
   resolv.conf).  You can use BIND as a caching only nameserver, and of
   course there are other choices like dnsmasq, maradns, pdnsd, and DJB's
   dnscache.
  
  dnsmasq does the trick, is dead easy to get running and would have
  taken me a lot longer to find without this message.
 
 In that case, let me introduce you to the apt-cache command, from
 the apt package (IOW you almost certainly have it installed).  Try
 this:
 
   apt-cache search dns
 
 Cool, eh?  apt-cache requires no special permissions and can do all
 sorts of cool things.  I find that I use search, show, and
 showpkg quite frequently.  Note that the search term is a real
 regex, not a glob.
 
 I used the results of the above command when I composed my earlier
 reply; it took me a minute or so to vgrep the output.

Cool indeed! I am rather new to the wonders of apt, having only
recently upgraded to woody from a slink installation which was so out
of date that trying to apt-get anything would have resulted in
downloading most of woody via dialup. Now I can use it safely, I
understand why everyone raves about it.

Thanks,
Pigeon


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

On Thu, Feb 06, 2003 at 11:42:10AM -0600, Keith G. Murphy wrote:
 Pigeon wrote:
  
   On the modem box I do
   echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
   ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.1/32 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j ACCEPT -b
   ipchains -P forward ACCEPT
   pon ukonline
   ping 195.40.1.36 (this is a ukonline DNS server)
   ... and it works.
  
   I go back to the main box and try and ping the same address, and
   nothing happens.
  
 
 I'm no expert on ipchains (I've only used iptables), but don't you need
 to do something for IP Masquerading?  In other words, how would the
 modem box know how to send the response to the ping back to the rear
 box?  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I thought that was what the -b (bidirectional) option did. But never
mind. I think the document I was reading was a bit out of date. I
found a more recent one that spoke in terms of iptables, and that
works, so that's what I'm using now.

 I've appended the script I used for doing this sort of thing using
 iptables.  Note the lines involving 'nat'.

 It's a shame doing this sort of thing is a bit of a black art (best I
 can recall I cobbled this together using someone else's script on the
 'Net), but you're getting a router for free, so you can't complain too
 much!  :-)

Thanks for that. It is much easier to understand something by having a
recipe that works, looking up the options used to see what they do,
and thus arriving at some picture of what's going on, than by looking
at the same man pages with no picture of what goes on, which is a bit
like trying to assemble one jigsaw out of a bag containing the bits of
several jigsaws, all different but with similar pictures.

Thanks,
Pigeon


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:19:36PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
 Install DNS caching software on the gateway (the modem box).  Have all
 internal machines use the gateway as their nameserver (use a static
 resolv.conf).  You can use BIND as a caching only nameserver, and of
 course there are other choices like dnsmasq, maradns, pdnsd, and DJB's
 dnscache.

dnsmasq does the trick, is dead easy to get running and would have
taken me a lot longer to find without this message.

Thanks!

Pigeon


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Keith G. Murphy]

Pigeon wrote:
 
  On the modem box I do
  echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
  ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.1/32 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j ACCEPT -b
  ipchains -P forward ACCEPT
  pon ukonline
  ping 195.40.1.36 (this is a ukonline DNS server)
  ... and it works.
 
  I go back to the main box and try and ping the same address, and
  nothing happens.
 

I'm no expert on ipchains (I've only used iptables), but don't you need
to do something for IP Masquerading?  In other words, how would the
modem box know how to send the response to the ping back to the rear
box?  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've appended the script I used for doing this sort of thing using
iptables.  Note the lines involving 'nat'.

It's a shame doing this sort of thing is a bit of a black art (best I
can recall I cobbled this together using someone else's script on the
'Net), but you're getting a router for free, so you can't complain too
much!  :-)

#!/bin/sh
#
# ip-up script for IP Masquerading
# Created 10/06/2002 by KGM

# # These variables are for the use of the scripts run by run-parts
PPP_IFACE=$1
# PPP_TTY=$2
# PPP_SPEED=$3
# PPP_LOCAL=$4
# PPP_REMOTE=$5
# PPP_IPPARAM=$6
# Initialization
iptables -F; iptables -t mangle -F
echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT
iptables -F INPUT
iptables -P OUTPUT ACCEPT
iptables -F OUTPUT
iptables -P FORWARD DROP
iptables -F FORWARD
iptables -t nat -F
# Allow only existing and related connections in
iptables -A FORWARD -i $PPP_IFACE -o eth0 -m state --state
ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
# Allow all connections out
iptables -A FORWARD -i eth0 -o $PPP_IFACE -j ACCEPT
iptables -A FORWARD -j LOG
# Masquerade!
iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o $PPP_IFACE -j MASQUERADE





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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:19:36PM -0600, Nathan E Norman wrote:
 On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:14:36PM +, Pigeon wrote:
  So I have resorted to a VILE HACK. The main box exports its /etc via
  NFS to the modem box. A script in the modem box's /etc/ppp/ip-up.d
  then copies the modem box's newly updated /etc/resolv.conf across to
  the main box whenever I connect.
 
 Grotesque.

True.

 Now you've gone and installed portmap and NFS services on
 your gateway box which can't be that great of an idea security-wise.

On the main box, I have an HD partition with all 7 Woody CDs on it. I
installed NFS on the other one so I could install things by
apt-getting them from the main box, without having to muck about
swapping CDs. Guess I can always purge it when I've finished setting up.

  I'm sure there must be a less vile method of doing this... what is it?
 
 Install DNS caching software on the gateway (the modem box).  Have all
 internal machines use the gateway as their nameserver (use a static
 resolv.conf).  You can use BIND as a caching only nameserver, and of
 course there are other choices like dnsmasq, maradns, pdnsd, and DJB's
 dnscache.

That's plenty of options to experiment with... guess the NFS will stay
for a while :-)

It's more complicated a solution than I was thinking of, but it'll
also no doubt enable me to refer to the local machines by name instead
of by number.


On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:06:36PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
 Pigeon writes:
  I'm sure there must be a less vile method of doing this... what is it?
 
 a) Run a caching-only nameserver on the modem box.
 
 b) Just put the ISP's three nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf and be happy.
 The only real purpose served by dynamic DNS is to save users the trouble
 of typing in the numbers.  All three servers will work regardless of which
 two they sent you most recently.

Well, (b) will de-vile me until I sort (a) out, which makes life easier.

Thanks, to both of you.

Pigeon


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 10:50:43PM +, Pigeon wrote:
 So: the main box is 192.168.1.1, the modem box is 192.168.1.2. I add
 gateway 192.168.1.2 to /etc/network/interfaces on the main box and
 run /etc/init.d/networking restart.
 
 On the modem box I do
 echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
 ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.1/32 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j ACCEPT -b
 ipchains -P forward ACCEPT
 pon ukonline
 ping 195.40.1.36 (this is a ukonline DNS server)
 ... and it works.
 
 I go back to the main box and try and ping the same address, and
 nothing happens.
 

Different approach. Now on the modem box I do:

modprobe ipt_MASQUERADE
iptables -F
iptables -t nat -F
iptables -t mangle -F
iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE
echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward

And from the main box, I can get through the modem box and out onto
the net. I can ping 195.40.1.36 from the main box and it works.

The problem now is DNS. My ISP uses dynamic DNS, so I am used to
having ppp rewrite my /etc/resolv.conf every time I connect. Now, of
course, the modem box is doing the connecting, so the main box's
/etc/resolv.conf does not get updated. The ISP seems to be giving me
any two out of three nameservers, so I could fudge it by putting all
three in the main box's /etc/resolv.conf, but I'd rather have it
updating automatically like it's supposed to.

So I have resorted to a VILE HACK. The main box exports its /etc via
NFS to the modem box. A script in the modem box's /etc/ppp/ip-up.d
then copies the modem box's newly updated /etc/resolv.conf across to
the main box whenever I connect.

I'm sure there must be a less vile method of doing this... what is it?

Pigeon


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[John Hasler]

Pigeon writes:
 I'm sure there must be a less vile method of doing this... what is it?

a) Run a caching-only nameserver on the modem box.

b) Just put the ISP's three nameservers in /etc/resolv.conf and be happy.
The only real purpose served by dynamic DNS is to save users the trouble
of typing in the numbers.  All three servers will work regardless of which
two they sent you most recently.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Nathan E Norman]

On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 10:14:36PM +, Pigeon wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 10:50:43PM +, Pigeon wrote:
  So: the main box is 192.168.1.1, the modem box is 192.168.1.2. I add
  gateway 192.168.1.2 to /etc/network/interfaces on the main box and
  run /etc/init.d/networking restart.
  
  On the modem box I do
  echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
  ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.1/32 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j ACCEPT -b
  ipchains -P forward ACCEPT
  pon ukonline
  ping 195.40.1.36 (this is a ukonline DNS server)
  ... and it works.
  
  I go back to the main box and try and ping the same address, and
  nothing happens.
  
 
 Different approach. Now on the modem box I do:
 
 modprobe ipt_MASQUERADE
 iptables -F
 iptables -t nat -F
 iptables -t mangle -F
 iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE
 echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
 
 And from the main box, I can get through the modem box and out onto
 the net. I can ping 195.40.1.36 from the main box and it works.
 
 The problem now is DNS. My ISP uses dynamic DNS, so I am used to
 having ppp rewrite my /etc/resolv.conf every time I connect. Now, of
 course, the modem box is doing the connecting, so the main box's
 /etc/resolv.conf does not get updated. The ISP seems to be giving me
 any two out of three nameservers, so I could fudge it by putting all
 three in the main box's /etc/resolv.conf, but I'd rather have it
 updating automatically like it's supposed to.
 
 So I have resorted to a VILE HACK. The main box exports its /etc via
 NFS to the modem box. A script in the modem box's /etc/ppp/ip-up.d
 then copies the modem box's newly updated /etc/resolv.conf across to
 the main box whenever I connect.

Grotesque.  Now you've gone and installed portmap and NFS services on
your gateway box which can't be that great of an idea security-wise.
 
 I'm sure there must be a less vile method of doing this... what is it?

Install DNS caching software on the gateway (the modem box).  Have all
internal machines use the gateway as their nameserver (use a static
resolv.conf).  You can use BIND as a caching only nameserver, and of
course there are other choices like dnsmasq, maradns, pdnsd, and DJB's
dnscache.

-- 
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  No.
   Should I include quotations after my reply?


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Keith G. Murphy]

Pigeon wrote:
[cut]

in the meantime I still want it to copy data
from one serial port to the other so I can continue to dial out as
normal from the main box.

Of course, Linux can't run my DOS program. But there's a package
called snooper which seems to do the same thing. So I installed it on
the modem box and set it up to connect the external and modem serial
ports. Try pon from the main box - nothing. 
[cut]

Since you seem dead-set against buying a couple of NICs...

I would take a completely different tack and try using SLIP, so you'll 
have regular TCP/IP networking going on over the serial line.  Then use 
the modem PC as your gateway, and run PPP in demand mode on the modem PC.

One of the many beauties of this approach is that when you *do* buy a 
couple of NICs, and even when you replace your dialup with broadband, 
you'll still can use the same PC as a gateway.


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Hans Wilmer]

On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 10:16:48PM +, Pigeon wrote:

 get this working, and in the meantime I still want it to copy data
 from one serial port to the other so I can continue to dial out as
 normal from the main box.

There's an NFS option in the kernel config that allows to directly
export devices via NFS. Maybe it's easier to export your /dev/modem
from one box to the other by NFS as to use sort-of-program and a special
cable. I've never tried to directly export devices, though, but maybe
it helps.


GH


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[John Hasler]

 With this arrangement, pppconfig can't autodetect the modem...

Pppconfig uses pppd to autodetect, but why do you care?  You know what
port to use.  Just select it manually in pppconfig.

 But it'll take me a while to get this working...

Why?  Just set up demand-dialing on it with pppconfig, make it the gateway
for your other box, and you'll be off and running.

 cat /dev/ttyS1 | tee /dev/ttyS2 ; cat /dev/ttyS2 | tee /dev/ttyS1  Same
 result. pppconfig sends AT, receives OK, sends loads of garbage
 ending with Loopback detected, and selects the correct port.  pon,
 however, sends nothing at all.

Pppd expects a real serial port.  It could take a long time to get this
working.  You're doing it the hard way.  See above.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI


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Re: modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 10:44:37AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:

Ah, a reply from the master, thank you!

  With this arrangement, pppconfig can't autodetect the modem...
 
 Pppconfig uses pppd to autodetect, but why do you care?  You know what
 port to use.  Just select it manually in pppconfig.

I don't care, but I thought it would be a useful piece of diagnostic
information.

  But it'll take me a while to get this working...
 
 Why?

Ignorance, lack of dead-tree documentation and personal
incompatibility with the online variety.

 Just set up demand-dialing on it with pppconfig

Not into demand dialing. I'd rather ssh into it and pon / poff by
hand. That way I can minimise the connect time, even if it is less
convenient. So I've set it up that way, and it works.

 make it the gateway
 for your other box, and you'll be off and running.

Now this is the tricky bit. Never had to set up a network before, and
don't know much about it. Connecting the two machines was easy - the
woody installer more or less did it all for me.

So: the main box is 192.168.1.1, the modem box is 192.168.1.2. I add
gateway 192.168.1.2 to /etc/network/interfaces on the main box and
run /etc/init.d/networking restart.

On the modem box I do
echo 1  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.1/32 -d 0.0.0.0/0 -j ACCEPT -b
ipchains -P forward ACCEPT
pon ukonline
ping 195.40.1.36 (this is a ukonline DNS server)
... and it works.

I go back to the main box and try and ping the same address, and
nothing happens.

Obviously I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what. Any pointers,
please? There's got to be a dead simple recipe to just make it work!

Once it is working, I can play about, experiment with it and figure
out what's going on. Currently it isn't working, which makes
experimentation hard.

  cat /dev/ttyS1 | tee /dev/ttyS2 ; cat /dev/ttyS2 | tee /dev/ttyS1  Same
  result. pppconfig sends AT, receives OK, sends loads of garbage
  ending with Loopback detected, and selects the correct port.  pon,
  however, sends nothing at all.
 
 Pppd expects a real serial port.  It could take a long time to get this
 working.  You're doing it the hard way.  See above.

Yeah, but with a DOS program (that ignores the hardware flow control
lines) doing the job of the above shell command, while pppconfig
doesn't work, pon and subsequent use of the modem work fine.

So, for me, given that I know sod all about networking, but can get
the fudge working in DOS, it seems easier to make the fudge work in
Linux as well, so I can run Linux on both boxes but still get online
while I still don't know how to set up forwarding.

So, thanks for your input so far; I'm trying to follow your
recommended method; can you supply the missing piece in my jigsaw
please?

Pigeon


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modem / pon / serial problems

[Pigeon]

Hi,

My motherboard has no ISA slots, but my (hardware) modem is an ISA
device. So, to make it usable, I have a second machine which does have
ISA slots. This is connected to the main machine by a 3-wire crossover
serial cable, and runs a DOS program to copy the external serial port
to the modem's serial port, and vice versa.

With this arrangement, pppconfig can't autodetect the modem, but if I
enter the serial port by hand and add nocrtscts to
/etc/ppp/peers/provider, the dialup works.

The modem box is a 600MHz Celeron, and I think it could be better used
than simply running a tiny little DOS program. So I networked it to
the main box and installed woody on it. That worked fine; I can ssh
into it and muck about, mount NFS exports from the main box, etc.
Ultimately it's gonna be a print server and a firewall for the main
box, and will talk to the modem itself. But it'll take me a while to
get this working, and in the meantime I still want it to copy data
from one serial port to the other so I can continue to dial out as
normal from the main box.

Of course, Linux can't run my DOS program. But there's a package
called snooper which seems to do the same thing. So I installed it on
the modem box and set it up to connect the external and modem serial
ports. Try pon from the main box - nothing. 0 characters sent or
received.

I replaced the 3-wire serial cable with a proper null modem, RX/TX
crossed, RTS/CTS crossed, DTR/DSR crossed, CD and GND straight
through. Now pppconfig autodetects the modem OK. snooper shows AT
being sent and echoed, OK being returned, then loads of garbage
ending with Loopback detected, and pppconfig correctly selects the
serial port. And of course I don't need nocrtscts in
/etc/ppp/peers/provider. But I still can't dial out. I try pon and I
still get 0 characters sent or received.

I tried it without snooper:
cat /dev/ttyS1 | tee /dev/ttyS2 ; cat /dev/ttyS2 | tee /dev/ttyS1 
Same result. pppconfig sends AT, receives OK, sends loads of
garbage ending with Loopback detected, and selects the correct port.
pon, however, sends nothing at all.

To recap:
Main box connected by serial cable to modem box. Main box trying to
run pon (and pppconfig); modem box runs prog to copy one serial port
to the other.
With 3-wire serial cable/nocrtscts and DOS prog: pppconfig doesn't
work, pon does.
With 3-wire serial cable and Linux progs (snooper or cat): nothing
works.
With 8-wire serial cable and DOS prog: irrelevant, DOS prog doesn't
handle hardware flow control.
With 8-wire serial cable and Linux progs: pppconfig works, pon doesn't.

Any ideas why pon refuses to send anything, and how to kick its arse?

Pigeon


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