Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Bernard]

Micha Feigin wrote:


[...]

 


Hi Micha, Hi to Everyone,

Thanks for your help. I have not gone very far, in spite of much time 
spent. I thought I ought to tell some details, especially since it might 
help someone else, or, maybe, convince someone else to step in and tell 
his/her own experience.


At first, I have worked at my sudo problem on Ubunto. I briefly recall 
what happened : after about one day, any call to sudo ..., generated 
the following reply :


sudo: unable to resolve host dell-desktop

   



You need to set dell-desktop in /etc/hosts. Add a line
127.0.1.1   dell-desktop.local  dell-desktop

otherwise look in /etc/hosts to see what you machine expects  you hostname to
be. You can change the hostname to localhost by running hostname localhost

It's strange that it's not setup properly.

 

So, I no longer had any possibility to intervene at tasks normally 
acessible to root or superuser... except if this could be done in Gnome 
environment, where my pasword still worked... but nothing accessible 
from an Xterm. Sudo worked all right at the beginning, but it no longer 
did. I spent a lot of time trying to overcome this, and, in the end, I 
decided to try ... re-installing Ubuntu from the built-in installation 
shell. Indeed, I have not felt sorry for having done so, since it was 
very fast (less that 30 minutes or so, with no questions except in the 
five last minutes). In the end, I got my system as it was a few days 
ago, when unpacking. So the sudo fonction did work again... but not 
for long ! This time, I know what I did just before it failed :


Manual network configuration = General

Host parameters

Hostname : dell- desktop
Domain name : blank space here

Since I could not find a way to get my WiFi connexion working, I 
wondered if I should write a domain name. On one of my other computers, 
the domain name is localdomain... so, I wrote the same thing in the 
blank space. Needless to say that this did not change anything in my 
connections. But, ever since then, any call to sudo, gave the same 
answer as previously mentioned, that is :


sudo: unable to resolve host dell-desktop

Problem is that, once I removed that domain name from the host 
parameters box,it did not change anything to my problem with sudo... I 
maybe forced to re-re-install again ! But then, chances are great that 
this bug or another one will force me to re-install quite often :) I 
expect not to have to go through that once I have programs and data 
installed on this system :(


Now, as far as WiFi connexions are concerned, I spent a lot of time, 
with absolutely no result or quite nearly so. Indeed, I have succeeded 
in a real normal connection, with my Livebox set to no encryption, and 
after I disabled the MAC authentification. Then I set my machine to WEP 
encryption, and then, after a thousand and one trials (well, maybe a 
little less than that), I got ONE connexion ONCE, it was a real one 
(82%), and workable one (I tried web pages using Hardy Heron 
(Firefox)... but it did work no longer that 2 or 3 minutes, after that 
time the icon stayed there and kept telling 82%, but I could no longer 
access the web, and a ping 192.168.1.1 resulted in Network 
Unreachable. I was unable to re-connect, even once. I haven't retried 
WPA, since there are no reasons that it would work any better than before.


   



what is the output of ifconfig and iwconfig?

 

Yes, I do have wpa_supplicant... but with no config file. In any case, 
you should not need to fiddle with that on a system that is supposed to 
be especially installed for that purpose ; you should be able to connect 
out of the box. I recall that I can't go fiddling with 
/etc/network/interfaces or launch ifup wlan0, since sudo is not 
   



You don't need to play with it if you are using network-manager or wcid, if you
are trying to connect without something that sets wpa than you will need a
config file.

If you are using these you will need to make sure that the interfaces don't
appear in /etc/network/interfaces (which means that ifup wlan0 won't work
anyway)

 

accessible ; however, at the time when this was still possible, the 
trials that I carried with interfaces did not lead to anywhere on this 
system. In the meantime, so as to check if my Livebox was still 
operating, I restarted my old Thinkpad 600 under Debian Lenny, and I 
could wifi wep connect right away using ifup wlan0 ; the connection is 
still up after more than one hour.


   



sounds like there is something wrong since from my experience ubuntu should
work out of the box with this (it will probably ask you to install the firmware
for the iwl3945 since it's in non-free though)

 


Thanks in advance for more hints


   




 

Thanks for your help. I have succeeded in overcoming my sudo problem, 
once I had added


127.0.1.1   dell-desktop.local  dell-desktop

in my /etc/host file. I had to add this from the recovery mode. Sudo now works.

As for WiFi... I am 

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Micha Feigin]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:58:49 +0100
Bernard bdebr...@teaser.fr wrote:

 Micha Feigin wrote:
 
 [...]
 
   
 
 Hi Micha, Hi to Everyone,
 
 Thanks for your help. I have not gone very far, in spite of much time 
 spent. I thought I ought to tell some details, especially since it might 
 help someone else, or, maybe, convince someone else to step in and tell 
 his/her own experience.
 
 At first, I have worked at my sudo problem on Ubunto. I briefly recall 
 what happened : after about one day, any call to sudo ..., generated 
 the following reply :
 
 sudo: unable to resolve host dell-desktop
 
 
 
 
 You need to set dell-desktop in /etc/hosts. Add a line
 127.0.1.1dell-desktop.local  dell-desktop
 
 otherwise look in /etc/hosts to see what you machine expects  you hostname to
 be. You can change the hostname to localhost by running hostname localhost
 
 It's strange that it's not setup properly.
 
   
 
 So, I no longer had any possibility to intervene at tasks normally 
 acessible to root or superuser... except if this could be done in Gnome 
 environment, where my pasword still worked... but nothing accessible 
 from an Xterm. Sudo worked all right at the beginning, but it no longer 
 did. I spent a lot of time trying to overcome this, and, in the end, I 
 decided to try ... re-installing Ubuntu from the built-in installation 
 shell. Indeed, I have not felt sorry for having done so, since it was 
 very fast (less that 30 minutes or so, with no questions except in the 
 five last minutes). In the end, I got my system as it was a few days 
 ago, when unpacking. So the sudo fonction did work again... but not 
 for long ! This time, I know what I did just before it failed :
 
 Manual network configuration = General
 
 Host parameters
 
 Hostname : dell- desktop
 Domain name : blank space here
 
 Since I could not find a way to get my WiFi connexion working, I 
 wondered if I should write a domain name. On one of my other computers, 
 the domain name is localdomain... so, I wrote the same thing in the 
 blank space. Needless to say that this did not change anything in my 
 connections. But, ever since then, any call to sudo, gave the same 
 answer as previously mentioned, that is :
 
 sudo: unable to resolve host dell-desktop
 
 Problem is that, once I removed that domain name from the host 
 parameters box,it did not change anything to my problem with sudo... I 
 maybe forced to re-re-install again ! But then, chances are great that 
 this bug or another one will force me to re-install quite often :) I 
 expect not to have to go through that once I have programs and data 
 installed on this system :(
 
 Now, as far as WiFi connexions are concerned, I spent a lot of time, 
 with absolutely no result or quite nearly so. Indeed, I have succeeded 
 in a real normal connection, with my Livebox set to no encryption, and 
 after I disabled the MAC authentification. Then I set my machine to WEP 
 encryption, and then, after a thousand and one trials (well, maybe a 
 little less than that), I got ONE connexion ONCE, it was a real one 
 (82%), and workable one (I tried web pages using Hardy Heron 
 (Firefox)... but it did work no longer that 2 or 3 minutes, after that 
 time the icon stayed there and kept telling 82%, but I could no longer 
 access the web, and a ping 192.168.1.1 resulted in Network 
 Unreachable. I was unable to re-connect, even once. I haven't retried 
 WPA, since there are no reasons that it would work any better than before.
 
 
 
 
 what is the output of ifconfig and iwconfig?
 
   
 
 Yes, I do have wpa_supplicant... but with no config file. In any case, 
 you should not need to fiddle with that on a system that is supposed to 
 be especially installed for that purpose ; you should be able to connect 
 out of the box. I recall that I can't go fiddling with 
 /etc/network/interfaces or launch ifup wlan0, since sudo is not 
 
 
 
 You don't need to play with it if you are using network-manager or wcid, if
 you are trying to connect without something that sets wpa than you will need
 a config file.
 
 If you are using these you will need to make sure that the interfaces don't
 appear in /etc/network/interfaces (which means that ifup wlan0 won't work
 anyway)
 
   
 
 accessible ; however, at the time when this was still possible, the 
 trials that I carried with interfaces did not lead to anywhere on this 
 system. In the meantime, so as to check if my Livebox was still 
 operating, I restarted my old Thinkpad 600 under Debian Lenny, and I 
 could wifi wep connect right away using ifup wlan0 ; the connection is 
 still up after more than one hour.
 
 
 
 
 sounds like there is something wrong since from my experience ubuntu should
 work out of the box with this (it will probably ask you to install the
 firmware for the iwl3945 since it's in non-free though)
 
   
 
 Thanks in advance for more hints
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 Thanks for your help. I have succeeded in overcoming 

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Bernard]

Micha Feigin wrote:


On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:11:29 +0100
Bernard bdebr...@teaser.fr wrote:

 


Hi Chris, Hi to Everyone,

Stackpole, Chris wrote:

   


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

  

   


Stackpole, Chris wrote:


 


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
To: Stackpole, Chris
Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
  

   


[snip]


 


light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required,
  

   


and


 


it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced
  

   


by


 


four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
wireless network Livebox-46db (0%).


  

   


[snip]

0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't


 


right.


 


Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.

Have fun!
~Stack~



 


my hardware is available at http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/test.txt

I have managed to get a cable DSL connexion, just plugging the cable
   


from my desktop, and it worked right away, so that I have been able to
 


save the trouble of typing one line after the other. ncftp was easy
enough to install for the purpose of that transfer.

I just got the output of lspci at this stage.
  

   


Looking at your hardware I see this:
0b:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Network Connection (rev 02)

OK, I have that wireless card in one of my laptops. I know it works with
Ubuntu and Debian. If it is not working with your current setup,
something is buggered up. 

 

I don't claim that it is not working, I just say that I haven't been 
able to get it to work as far as getting a connexion to my DSL router 
(Livebox). To this point, I'd rather suspect that I have not properly 
set up the parameters. I had a hell of a hard time to get it to work, 
   



Any chance that you setup mac filtering on the router? Took me a couple of
hours of serious aggravation last time I tried to setup my wifes ipod touch ...

 

back a few month ago on my desktop with Debian Sarge. It is very 
complicated, to the point that, on that Desktop and Debian Sarge, I have 
only been able to get a WPA connexion on my DSL router box, not on 
places where I brought my computer (meeting rooms for associations), 
where it did work only under MSWIN. It worked easier with WEP encryption 
or no encryption. Therefore, I suspect that, if it does not work with my 
new DELL Inspiron under Ubuntu 8.04, it likely is because I have not 
properly setup parameters. Amongst most likely suspects, I would put :


   



It may be good to test wep and/or no encription as a start to make sure that
everything works and it's just an issue of setting up wep properly.

I found the wcid is better at handling wpa by the way that networkmanager which
keeps dropping the connection on me. Do you have wpa-supplicant installed?

 

- improper host (my hostname is supposed to be dell-desktop ; I don't 
know how I got this, it is localhost on my other computers


- improper way to send parameters to the system. For instance, under 
Debian Sarge on my desktop, my interfaces file include commands that 
shows passphrase under brackets, while the network manager on Ubuntu 
does not require brackets. There are a few details on my Interfaces file 
on Debian Sarge that I can't reproduce on Ubuntu, for instance the mode 
Managed and things of the kind. Such different ways to address 
parameters, is very confusing indeed ; it leads me to suspect that, as 
long as I have not found what is the problem, chances are rather slim 
that I get better results with Debian Lenny or SID. I bet that I would 
get a connexion right away if I changed the settings or my DSL Wifi to 
no encryption, or to WEP encryption, but I don't see the point of 
trying, since I don't intend to use any of these modes. What I did was 
testing that WPA wifi connexion still worked on my desktop : it does. On 
my new DELL laptop, no connexion works except cabled DSL connexion. 
However, as I said, the system works, since it detects neigbourhood wifi 
points, but can't connect. If you find it useful, I might try to convert 
my DSL wifi router to WEP encryption, but I bet it will work. Besides, I 
don't know how to overcome the fact that I can't use sudo : unable to 
resolve host dell-desktop, which prevents me to modify the file 
/etc/network/interfaces. I must say, however, that the content of this 
file does change according to what I specify in the Ubunto/Gnome network 
interface, so this is a proof that it all works together. Indeed that 
interfaces file does look funny right now ; it includes a passphrase 
that I have never typed

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Micha Feigin]

[...]

 
 Hi Micha, Hi to Everyone,
 
 Thanks for your help. I have not gone very far, in spite of much time 
 spent. I thought I ought to tell some details, especially since it might 
 help someone else, or, maybe, convince someone else to step in and tell 
 his/her own experience.
 
 At first, I have worked at my sudo problem on Ubunto. I briefly recall 
 what happened : after about one day, any call to sudo ..., generated 
 the following reply :
 
 sudo: unable to resolve host dell-desktop
 

You need to set dell-desktop in /etc/hosts. Add a line
127.0.1.1   dell-desktop.local  dell-desktop

otherwise look in /etc/hosts to see what you machine expects  you hostname to
be. You can change the hostname to localhost by running hostname localhost

It's strange that it's not setup properly.

 So, I no longer had any possibility to intervene at tasks normally 
 acessible to root or superuser... except if this could be done in Gnome 
 environment, where my pasword still worked... but nothing accessible 
 from an Xterm. Sudo worked all right at the beginning, but it no longer 
 did. I spent a lot of time trying to overcome this, and, in the end, I 
 decided to try ... re-installing Ubuntu from the built-in installation 
 shell. Indeed, I have not felt sorry for having done so, since it was 
 very fast (less that 30 minutes or so, with no questions except in the 
 five last minutes). In the end, I got my system as it was a few days 
 ago, when unpacking. So the sudo fonction did work again... but not 
 for long ! This time, I know what I did just before it failed :
 
 Manual network configuration = General
 
 Host parameters
 
 Hostname : dell- desktop
 Domain name : blank space here
 
 Since I could not find a way to get my WiFi connexion working, I 
 wondered if I should write a domain name. On one of my other computers, 
 the domain name is localdomain... so, I wrote the same thing in the 
 blank space. Needless to say that this did not change anything in my 
 connections. But, ever since then, any call to sudo, gave the same 
 answer as previously mentioned, that is :
 
 sudo: unable to resolve host dell-desktop
 
 Problem is that, once I removed that domain name from the host 
 parameters box,it did not change anything to my problem with sudo... I 
 maybe forced to re-re-install again ! But then, chances are great that 
 this bug or another one will force me to re-install quite often :) I 
 expect not to have to go through that once I have programs and data 
 installed on this system :(
 
 Now, as far as WiFi connexions are concerned, I spent a lot of time, 
 with absolutely no result or quite nearly so. Indeed, I have succeeded 
 in a real normal connection, with my Livebox set to no encryption, and 
 after I disabled the MAC authentification. Then I set my machine to WEP 
 encryption, and then, after a thousand and one trials (well, maybe a 
 little less than that), I got ONE connexion ONCE, it was a real one 
 (82%), and workable one (I tried web pages using Hardy Heron 
 (Firefox)... but it did work no longer that 2 or 3 minutes, after that 
 time the icon stayed there and kept telling 82%, but I could no longer 
 access the web, and a ping 192.168.1.1 resulted in Network 
 Unreachable. I was unable to re-connect, even once. I haven't retried 
 WPA, since there are no reasons that it would work any better than before.
 

what is the output of ifconfig and iwconfig?

 Yes, I do have wpa_supplicant... but with no config file. In any case, 
 you should not need to fiddle with that on a system that is supposed to 
 be especially installed for that purpose ; you should be able to connect 
 out of the box. I recall that I can't go fiddling with 
 /etc/network/interfaces or launch ifup wlan0, since sudo is not 

You don't need to play with it if you are using network-manager or wcid, if you
are trying to connect without something that sets wpa than you will need a
config file.

If you are using these you will need to make sure that the interfaces don't
appear in /etc/network/interfaces (which means that ifup wlan0 won't work
anyway)

 accessible ; however, at the time when this was still possible, the 
 trials that I carried with interfaces did not lead to anywhere on this 
 system. In the meantime, so as to check if my Livebox was still 
 operating, I restarted my old Thinkpad 600 under Debian Lenny, and I 
 could wifi wep connect right away using ifup wlan0 ; the connection is 
 still up after more than one hour.
 

sounds like there is something wrong since from my experience ubuntu should
work out of the box with this (it will probably ask you to install the firmware
for the iwl3945 since it's in non-free though)

 Thanks in advance for more hints
 
 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

RE: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Stackpole, Chris]

 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:44 PM
 Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
 Stackpole, Chris wrote:
 
 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
 To: Stackpole, Chris
 Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
[snip]
 light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
 neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required,
and
 it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced
by
 four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
 wireless network Livebox-46db (0%).
 
 
 [snip]
 
 0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't
right.
 Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.
 
 Have fun!
 ~Stack~
 
 my hardware is available at http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/test.txt
 
 I have managed to get a cable DSL connexion, just plugging the cable
 from my desktop, and it worked right away, so that I have been able to
 save the trouble of typing one line after the other. ncftp was easy
 enough to install for the purpose of that transfer.
 
 I just got the output of lspci at this stage.

Looking at your hardware I see this:
0b:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Network Connection (rev 02)

OK, I have that wireless card in one of my laptops. I know it works with
Ubuntu and Debian. If it is not working with your current setup,
something is buggered up. Do you have the ability to download either the
Debian or the Ubuntu live CD's? You mentioned before you were looking to
find out if all the hardware worked properly and I see no reason why the
LiveCD's wouldn't tell you that. I don't know how the laptop came to you
preconfigured, and I think that a clean run of a LiveCD would be just as
good at determining if the hardware worked properly. If you get it to
work with a LiveCD then it is the configuration; if not then it might be
the hardware.

Do you get restore discs with the laptop? That way if you do not have
access to the LiveCD's (restricted internet access or something) then
you should be able to do a fresh install of Lenny and have the drivers
work right away. Should you have problems you can restore the original
install to call tech support.

Hope this helps.
Have fun!
~S~


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Wednesday 2009 January 07 08:22:06 Stackpole, Chris wrote:
  From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
  I just got the output of lspci at this stage.

 Looking at your hardware I see this:
 0b:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
 Network Connection (rev 02)

This works with the ipw3945 driver in the etch kernel.  This works with the 
iwl3945 driver (plus firmware from non-free[1]) in the etchnhalf kernel.  Not 
sure about the Lenny kernel, but it probably also requires firmware from 
non-free.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. 
b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy   `-'(. .)`-' 
http://iguanasuicide.net/  \_/ 

[1] Not sure how long this will be true, ISTR a debian-vote to assume firmware 
blobs satisfy the GPL until there's evidence otherwise.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Micha Feigin]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:22:06 -0600
Stackpole, Chris cstackp...@barbnet.com wrote:

  From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:44 PM
  Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
  
  Stackpole, Chris wrote:
  
  From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
  To: Stackpole, Chris
  Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 [snip]
  light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
  neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required,
 and
  it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced
 by
  four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
  wireless network Livebox-46db (0%).
  
  
  [snip]
  
  0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't
 right.
  Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.
  
  Have fun!
  ~Stack~
  
  my hardware is available at http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/test.txt
  
  I have managed to get a cable DSL connexion, just plugging the cable
  from my desktop, and it worked right away, so that I have been able to
  save the trouble of typing one line after the other. ncftp was easy
  enough to install for the purpose of that transfer.
  
  I just got the output of lspci at this stage.
 
 Looking at your hardware I see this:
 0b:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
 Network Connection (rev 02)
 

you want the driver from (compat wireless)
http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Download

you also need firmware (nonfree so not available on live cd)
aptitude install firmware-iwlwifi

There is also a version in the kernel for the driver so getting the firmware 
may be enough

 OK, I have that wireless card in one of my laptops. I know it works with
 Ubuntu and Debian. If it is not working with your current setup,
 something is buggered up. Do you have the ability to download either the
 Debian or the Ubuntu live CD's? You mentioned before you were looking to
 find out if all the hardware worked properly and I see no reason why the
 LiveCD's wouldn't tell you that. I don't know how the laptop came to you
 preconfigured, and I think that a clean run of a LiveCD would be just as
 good at determining if the hardware worked properly. If you get it to
 work with a LiveCD then it is the configuration; if not then it might be
 the hardware.
 
 Do you get restore discs with the laptop? That way if you do not have
 access to the LiveCD's (restricted internet access or something) then
 you should be able to do a fresh install of Lenny and have the drivers
 work right away. Should you have problems you can restore the original
 install to call tech support.
 
 Hope this helps.
 Have fun!
 ~S~
 
 


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Bernard]

Hi Chris, Hi to Everyone,

Stackpole, Chris wrote:


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

   


Stackpole, Chris wrote:
 


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
To: Stackpole, Chris
Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
   


[snip]
 


light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required,
   


and
 


it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced
   


by
 


four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
wireless network Livebox-46db (0%).


   


[snip]

0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't
 


right.
 


Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.

Have fun!
~Stack~

 


my hardware is available at http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/test.txt

I have managed to get a cable DSL connexion, just plugging the cable
from my desktop, and it worked right away, so that I have been able to
save the trouble of typing one line after the other. ncftp was easy
enough to install for the purpose of that transfer.

I just got the output of lspci at this stage.
   



Looking at your hardware I see this:
0b:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Network Connection (rev 02)

OK, I have that wireless card in one of my laptops. I know it works with
Ubuntu and Debian. If it is not working with your current setup,
something is buggered up. 

I don't claim that it is not working, I just say that I haven't been 
able to get it to work as far as getting a connexion to my DSL router 
(Livebox). To this point, I'd rather suspect that I have not properly 
set up the parameters. I had a hell of a hard time to get it to work, 
back a few month ago on my desktop with Debian Sarge. It is very 
complicated, to the point that, on that Desktop and Debian Sarge, I have 
only been able to get a WPA connexion on my DSL router box, not on 
places where I brought my computer (meeting rooms for associations), 
where it did work only under MSWIN. It worked easier with WEP encryption 
or no encryption. Therefore, I suspect that, if it does not work with my 
new DELL Inspiron under Ubuntu 8.04, it likely is because I have not 
properly setup parameters. Amongst most likely suspects, I would put :


- improper host (my hostname is supposed to be dell-desktop ; I don't 
know how I got this, it is localhost on my other computers


- improper way to send parameters to the system. For instance, under 
Debian Sarge on my desktop, my interfaces file include commands that 
shows passphrase under brackets, while the network manager on Ubuntu 
does not require brackets. There are a few details on my Interfaces file 
on Debian Sarge that I can't reproduce on Ubuntu, for instance the mode 
Managed and things of the kind. Such different ways to address 
parameters, is very confusing indeed ; it leads me to suspect that, as 
long as I have not found what is the problem, chances are rather slim 
that I get better results with Debian Lenny or SID. I bet that I would 
get a connexion right away if I changed the settings or my DSL Wifi to 
no encryption, or to WEP encryption, but I don't see the point of 
trying, since I don't intend to use any of these modes. What I did was 
testing that WPA wifi connexion still worked on my desktop : it does. On 
my new DELL laptop, no connexion works except cabled DSL connexion. 
However, as I said, the system works, since it detects neigbourhood wifi 
points, but can't connect. If you find it useful, I might try to convert 
my DSL wifi router to WEP encryption, but I bet it will work. Besides, I 
don't know how to overcome the fact that I can't use sudo : unable to 
resolve host dell-desktop, which prevents me to modify the file 
/etc/network/interfaces. I must say, however, that the content of this 
file does change according to what I specify in the Ubunto/Gnome network 
interface, so this is a proof that it all works together. Indeed that 
interfaces file does look funny right now ; it includes a passphrase 
that I have never typed, and that is a lot longer than that I have 
typed. I must precise that, just in case you wouldn't have noticed, I am 
close to an ignorant as far as wifi config is concerned. At one time, 
amongst the so numerous options that were offered, I was proposed to 
type a network pasword. I thought I had to type the WPA TKIP 
passphrase, so I did... but, two or three caracters before the end, no 
more was accepted... So it appears that I was supposed to type something 
else, or nothing at all. It maybe that my typings were translated into a 
passphrase, which can't be the right one... All this is so very 
confusing for a newbee...


Thanks for more help, on a more ground level basis.




 




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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Micha Feigin]

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:11:29 +0100
Bernard bdebr...@teaser.fr wrote:

 Hi Chris, Hi to Everyone,
 
 Stackpole, Chris wrote:
 
 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:44 PM
 Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
 
 
 Stackpole, Chris wrote:
   
 
 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
 To: Stackpole, Chris
 Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
 
 [snip]
   
 
 light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
 neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required,
 
 
 and
   
 
 it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced
 
 
 by
   
 
 four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
 wireless network Livebox-46db (0%).
 
 
 
 
 [snip]
 
 0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't
   
 
 right.
   
 
 Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.
 
 Have fun!
 ~Stack~
 
   
 
 my hardware is available at http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/test.txt
 
 I have managed to get a cable DSL connexion, just plugging the cable
 from my desktop, and it worked right away, so that I have been able to
 save the trouble of typing one line after the other. ncftp was easy
 enough to install for the purpose of that transfer.
 
 I just got the output of lspci at this stage.
 
 
 
 Looking at your hardware I see this:
 0b:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
 Network Connection (rev 02)
 
 OK, I have that wireless card in one of my laptops. I know it works with
 Ubuntu and Debian. If it is not working with your current setup,
 something is buggered up. 
 
 I don't claim that it is not working, I just say that I haven't been 
 able to get it to work as far as getting a connexion to my DSL router 
 (Livebox). To this point, I'd rather suspect that I have not properly 
 set up the parameters. I had a hell of a hard time to get it to work, 

Any chance that you setup mac filtering on the router? Took me a couple of
hours of serious aggravation last time I tried to setup my wifes ipod touch ...

 back a few month ago on my desktop with Debian Sarge. It is very 
 complicated, to the point that, on that Desktop and Debian Sarge, I have 
 only been able to get a WPA connexion on my DSL router box, not on 
 places where I brought my computer (meeting rooms for associations), 
 where it did work only under MSWIN. It worked easier with WEP encryption 
 or no encryption. Therefore, I suspect that, if it does not work with my 
 new DELL Inspiron under Ubuntu 8.04, it likely is because I have not 
 properly setup parameters. Amongst most likely suspects, I would put :
 

It may be good to test wep and/or no encription as a start to make sure that
everything works and it's just an issue of setting up wep properly.

I found the wcid is better at handling wpa by the way that networkmanager which
keeps dropping the connection on me. Do you have wpa-supplicant installed?

 - improper host (my hostname is supposed to be dell-desktop ; I don't 
 know how I got this, it is localhost on my other computers
 
 - improper way to send parameters to the system. For instance, under 
 Debian Sarge on my desktop, my interfaces file include commands that 
 shows passphrase under brackets, while the network manager on Ubuntu 
 does not require brackets. There are a few details on my Interfaces file 
 on Debian Sarge that I can't reproduce on Ubuntu, for instance the mode 
 Managed and things of the kind. Such different ways to address 
 parameters, is very confusing indeed ; it leads me to suspect that, as 
 long as I have not found what is the problem, chances are rather slim 
 that I get better results with Debian Lenny or SID. I bet that I would 
 get a connexion right away if I changed the settings or my DSL Wifi to 
 no encryption, or to WEP encryption, but I don't see the point of 
 trying, since I don't intend to use any of these modes. What I did was 
 testing that WPA wifi connexion still worked on my desktop : it does. On 
 my new DELL laptop, no connexion works except cabled DSL connexion. 
 However, as I said, the system works, since it detects neigbourhood wifi 
 points, but can't connect. If you find it useful, I might try to convert 
 my DSL wifi router to WEP encryption, but I bet it will work. Besides, I 
 don't know how to overcome the fact that I can't use sudo : unable to 
 resolve host dell-desktop, which prevents me to modify the file 
 /etc/network/interfaces. I must say, however, that the content of this 
 file does change according to what I specify in the Ubunto/Gnome network 
 interface, so this is a proof that it all works together. Indeed that 
 interfaces file does look funny right now ; it includes a passphrase 
 that I have never typed, and that is a lot longer than that I have 
 typed. I must precise that, just in case

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Dotan Cohen]

2009/1/6 Koh Choon Lin kohchoonl...@gmail.com:
 Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better
 ordering a specific DELL mouse ?

 OT: I am looking for a three button mouse but I do not seems to find
 one wheel-less. Anyone has an idea?


I do not recall _ever_ seeing a USB three-button mouse without a wheel.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه‍-و-ي
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а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я
ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Kent West]

Koh Choon Lin wrote:
 Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better
 ordering a specific DELL mouse ?
 

 OT: I am looking for a three button mouse but I do not seems to find
 one wheel-less. Anyone has an idea?

   

You had mentioned earlier that you were unfamiliar with USB mice, so I
just wanted to make sure you understand that the scroll wheel doubles as
the third button. (Also, you probably want an optical mouse rather than
a roller-ball mouse; fewer moving parts, more reliable generally.)

-- 
Kent West   )))
Westing Peacefully - http://kentwest.blogspot.com


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Koh Choon Lin]

 OT: I am looking for a three button mouse but I do not seems to find
 one wheel-less. Anyone has an idea?

 I do not recall _ever_ seeing a USB three-button mouse without a wheel.

I am currently using such a mouse from Sun. Too bad its failing and I
hope to get a replacement soon.

http://www.actionpc.com/ebay_tools/hotlink/imgproc.php?pic=/home/actionpc/public_html/ebaypix/sunusbmnkb-01.jpg


-- 
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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Kent West]

Koh Choon Lin wrote:
 OT: I am looking for a three button mouse but I do not seems to find
 one wheel-less. Anyone has an idea?

   
 I do not recall _ever_ seeing a USB three-button mouse without a wheel.
 

 I am currently using such a mouse from Sun. Too bad its failing and I
 hope to get a replacement soon.

 http://www.actionpc.com/ebay_tools/hotlink/imgproc.php?pic=/home/actionpc/public_html/ebaypix/sunusbmnkb-01.jpg
   

Oh I hated those mice! Mostly because they don't have a scroll wheel;
you get spoiled to a scroll wheel really fast.

(You also get spoiled to the two-finger scrolling on a track-pad fast
too. I love it on my Debian lappy and on my Macbook; I get so frustrated
when I sit down at a Windows laptop and don't have that feature.)


-- 
Kent West   )))
Westing Peacefully - http://kentwest.blogspot.com


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RE: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Stackpole, Chris]

 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:30 PM
 Subject: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
[snip]
 For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !
 
 The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi
 working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running on
 Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL box/router,
 whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi
only
 on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt
that
 it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The
automated
 process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to
 insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have done
 on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no
 result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that is
 supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.

If you have not used Ubuntu recently, the wireless configurations are
/much/ different then they were in Debian Etch. Try using network
manager; I bet the icon is in the top right of your screen by the clock
(looks like 2 computers). Left click to see the wireless networks it has
found, right click to see the properties information. Also, right after
a fresh boot up, it will take a few minutes for it to scan/find wireless
networks (I kid you not, it takes a full 2 minutes to find my wireless
network on my Ubuntu 8.10 laptop). So give it time. Once it scans the
area, it should present a drop down menu of all the wireless networks
found (left click). If you have your SSID set to hidden you will have
to select the connect to Hidden Network option. Both options bring you
to the same menu where you can define your network, your encryption, and
your password/phrase. That should be it to get you connected.

If you try to do networking/wireless the Debian way in Ubuntu, you
have to disable/remove network manager first. You will have issues if
you don't. You will probably find that people tend to either love or
loath network manager.

 
 Do you recommend to give it a quick extra trial before installing
Debian
 Lenny, or have I better switch right away ?

I would give it a trial. Also, please do yourself and anyone helping you
a favor and look at the hardware before hand. I have heard several
stories of these laptops being shipped with binary blobs for drivers.
Also, a friend got one of the first Ubuntu-preinstalled Dell laptops. We
were unable to get Etch to install and we were unable to get Lenny
working right. The latest Sid and Ubuntu worked though (This was almost
a year ago so I hope things have changed for the better). If I were you
I would look through all the hardware and do a few Google searches to
make sure that the Debian version you are going to install will work (or
at least find out how much work it will take to get the drivers to
work).

I hope this helps. May the drivers be included on install and your
configuration smooth!

Have fun!
~Stack~


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RE: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Stackpole, Chris]

 From: Stackpole, Chris [mailto:cstackp...@barbnet.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:25 AM
 Subject: RE: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
  From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
  Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:30 PM
  Subject: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
 [snip]
  For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !
 
  The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi
  working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running
on
  Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL
box/router,
  whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi
 only
  on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt
 that
  it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The
 automated
  process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to
  insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have
done
  on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no
  result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that
is
  supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.
 
 If you have not used Ubuntu recently, the wireless configurations are
 /much/ different then they were in Debian Etch. Try using network
 manager; I bet the icon is in the top right of your screen by the
clock
 (looks like 2 computers). Left click to see the wireless networks it
has
 found, right click to see the properties information. Also, right
after
 a fresh boot up, it will take a few minutes for it to scan/find
wireless
 networks (I kid you not, it takes a full 2 minutes to find my wireless
 network on my Ubuntu 8.10 laptop). So give it time. Once it scans the
 area, it should present a drop down menu of all the wireless networks
 found (left click). If you have your SSID set to hidden you will
have
 to select the connect to Hidden Network option. Both options bring
you
 to the same menu where you can define your network, your encryption,
and
 your password/phrase. That should be it to get you connected.
 
 If you try to do networking/wireless the Debian way in Ubuntu, you
 have to disable/remove network manager first. You will have issues if
 you don't. You will probably find that people tend to either love or
 loath network manager.
 
 
  Do you recommend to give it a quick extra trial before installing
 Debian
  Lenny, or have I better switch right away ?
 
 I would give it a trial. Also, please do yourself and anyone helping
you
 a favor and look at the hardware before hand. I have heard several
 stories of these laptops being shipped with binary blobs for drivers.
 Also, a friend got one of the first Ubuntu-preinstalled Dell laptops.
We
 were unable to get Etch to install and we were unable to get Lenny
 working right. The latest Sid and Ubuntu worked though (This was
almost
 a year ago so I hope things have changed for the better). If I were
you
 I would look through all the hardware and do a few Google searches to
 make sure that the Debian version you are going to install will work
(or
 at least find out how much work it will take to get the drivers to
 work).
 
 I hope this helps. May the drivers be included on install and your
 configuration smooth!
 
 Have fun!
 ~Stack~

One thing I wanted to add to this (just remembered while answering
another topic). Debian does have Live CD's that can be tested out [1]. I
have had a few issues with them not detecting hardware yet the install
had no problems at all. Most of the time these issues have been a simple
fix (a module not being loaded or something easy like that). They should
be good enough for you to see how much work it is going to require for
your devices to function properly. Plus you can test out Etch, Lenny,
and Sid to see which one works best for you. That way you don't have to
spend time to do multiple installs.

Hope everything goes smoothly for you!

Have fun!
~Stack~

[1] http://live.debian.net/cdimage/


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Dotan Cohen]

2009/1/6 Kent West we...@acu.edu:
 Oh I hated those mice! Mostly because they don't have a scroll wheel;
 you get spoiled to a scroll wheel really fast.


That is quite what the OP wanted.

 (You also get spoiled to the two-finger scrolling on a track-pad fast
 too. I love it on my Debian lappy and on my Macbook; I get so frustrated
 when I sit down at a Windows laptop and don't have that feature.)


What's that? Link, please!

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
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А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я
а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я
ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Micha Feigin]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:29:31 +0800
Koh Choon Lin kohchoonl...@gmail.com wrote:

  Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better
  ordering a specific DELL mouse ?
 
 OT: I am looking for a three button mouse but I do not seems to find
 one wheel-less. Anyone has an idea?
 
 

There used to be an ergonomic (right handed) mouse like that from logitec but
it was quite a few years back so I don't know if they still exist. Haven't seen
any lately.


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Kent West]

Dotan Cohen wrote:
 2009/1/6 Kent West we...@acu.edu:
   
 (You also get spoiled to the two-finger scrolling on a track-pad fast
 too. I love it on my Debian lappy and on my Macbook; I get so frustrated
 when I sit down at a Windows laptop and don't have that feature.

 What's that? Link, please

http://www.symphonious.net/2007/05/22/two-finger-scrolling-rocks/

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=26480 (the second posting, by
roadnottaken)

-- 
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http://kentwest.blogspot.com


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Dotan Cohen]

2009/1/6 Kent West we...@acu.edu:
 What's that? Link, please

 http://www.symphonious.net/2007/05/22/two-finger-scrolling-rocks/

 http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=26480 (the second posting, by
 roadnottaken)


Excellent, thanks! You don't want to know what google thinks I'm
searching for when I enter two fingers.

-- 
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http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

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ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Bernard]

Stackpole, Chris wrote:


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

   


[snip]
 


For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !

The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi
working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running on
Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL box/router,
whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi
   


only
 


on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt
   


that
 


it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The
   


automated
 


process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to
insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have done
on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no
result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that is
supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.
   



If you have not used Ubuntu recently, 



This is my first encounter with Ubuntu... and it is rather hard, ever 
since I also have to cope with Gnome which is also not familiar to me 
(used to fvwm). One of the first things that I learnt about Ubunto, is 
that, by default, the user cannot become superuser (su) using the root 
pasword ; also, when you open your new machine with Ubuntu installed, it 
is not being proposed that you register a user root. Instead, you are 
supposed, for any action that requires permission, to type :


sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart (for instance), and the system then 
requires you to provide your own user pasword.


Problem is that it no longer works here, and I don't know how to recover 
from this. I don't know why it no longer works, I gwess I must have 
changed something in my config, local parameters or else. It says :


sudo : unable to resolve host dell-desktop

The shell that appears on my Xterm is :

b...@dell-desktop:-$

I can't remember what that shell was yesterday, maybe it has changed... 
it was 3 in the morning. In any case I hope I can get this fixed.



the wireless configurations are
/much/ different then they were in Debian Etch. Try using network
manager; I bet the icon is in the top right of your screen by the clock
(looks like 2 computers). Left click to see the wireless networks it has
found, right click to see the properties information. 

I have just tried this. A left click on the icon just proposes a manual 
config (it also shows a grayed line Cabled network. After awhile, a 
box appears though, but the box is blank. At this stage, the system has 
been up for at least 30 minutes. So, I clicked to manual config. Once 
there and after authentification with my pasword (it still works there), 
I clicked on wireless connexion and properties. Once there, I 
deactivated the roaming mode (I hope there is no confusion in the 
translation, since most everything is in French on that laptop). Once 
that mode deactivated, the blue network light came on in the front left 
of the machine ; it was out before... Ah YES, I just carried another 
trial... true enough, the blue light did come in only after I 
deactivated roaming, but, this time, when I tried to reactivate it, the 
light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my 
neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required, and 
it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced by 
four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to 
wireless network Livebox-46db (0%). Now, if I ping my livebox, it says 
Network is unreachable and, if I launch Firefox, http addresses are 
not found. While testing on my desktop on Debian Sarge, that is, about 
three months ago, using ifup and ifdown and /etc/network/interfaces, I 
think that I found that what made the difference was the mode (Managed 
or else), but on that laptop with Ubuntu, I don't know how to change 
this ; it may also be another reason why it does not work.


I will reply your other questions later on, since I am trying to get rid 
of my wifi problem first, also to that of my sudo pasword reckognition.



Also, right after
a fresh boot up, it will take a few minutes for it to scan/find wireless
networks (I kid you not, it takes a full 2 minutes to find my wireless
network on my Ubuntu 8.10 laptop). So give it time. Once it scans the
area, it should present a drop down menu of all the wireless networks
found (left click). If you have your SSID set to hidden you will have
to select the connect to Hidden Network option. Both options bring you
to the same menu where you can define your network, your encryption, and
your password/phrase. That should be it to get you connected.

If you try to do networking/wireless the Debian way in Ubuntu, you
have to disable/remove network manager first. You will have issues if
you don't. You will probably find that people tend to either love or
loath network manager

RE: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Stackpole, Chris]

 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
 To: Stackpole, Chris
 Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
 Stackpole, Chris wrote:
 
 From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:30 PM
 Subject: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations
 
 
 
 [snip]
 
 
 For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !
 
 The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi
 working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running
on
 Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL
box/router,
 whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi
 
 
 only
 
 
 on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt
 
 
 that
 
 
 it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The
 
 
 automated
 
 
 process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to
 insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have
done
 on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no
 result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that
is
 supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.
 
 
 
 If you have not used Ubuntu recently,
 
 
 This is my first encounter with Ubuntu... and it is rather hard, ever
 since I also have to cope with Gnome which is also not familiar to me
 (used to fvwm). One of the first things that I learnt about Ubunto, is
 that, by default, the user cannot become superuser (su) using the root
 password
[snip]

Meh, the sudo thing annoys me. I just `sudo su` and get the root prompt.
I will probably get yelled at again for saying that though...

 the wireless configurations are
 /much/ different then they were in Debian Etch. Try using network
 manager; I bet the icon is in the top right of your screen by the
clock
 (looks like 2 computers). Left click to see the wireless networks it
has
 found, right click to see the properties information.
 
 I have just tried this. A left click on the icon just proposes a
manual
 config (it also shows a grayed line Cabled network. After awhile, a
 box appears though, but the box is blank. At this stage, the system
has
 been up for at least 30 minutes. So, I clicked to manual config.
Once
 there and after authentification with my pasword (it still works
there),
 I clicked on wireless connexion and properties. Once there, I
 deactivated the roaming mode (I hope there is no confusion in the
 translation, since most everything is in French on that laptop). Once
 that mode deactivated, the blue network light came on in the front
left
 of the machine ; it was out before... Ah YES, I just carried another
 trial... true enough, the blue light did come in only after I
 deactivated roaming, but, this time, when I tried to reactivate it,
the
 light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
 neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required, and
 it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced by
 four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
 wireless network Livebox-46db (0%). 
[snip]

0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't right.
Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.

Have fun!
~Stack~


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Tuesday 2009 January 06 14:47:19 Stackpole, Chris wrote:
 Meh, the sudo thing annoys me. I just `sudo su` and get the root prompt.
 I will probably get yelled at again for saying that though...

sudo -s works even if some crazy has removed/replaced/broken in su binary.
You might also want sudo su - or sudo -i instead.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. 
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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Bernard]

Stackpole, Chris wrote:


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:41 PM
To: Stackpole, Chris
Subject: Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

Stackpole, Chris wrote:

   


From: Bernard [mailto:bdebr...@teaser.fr]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations



   


[snip]


 


For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !

The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi
working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running
   


on
 


Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL
   


box/router,
 


whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi


   


only


 


on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt


   


that


 


it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The


   


automated


 


process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to
insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have
   


done
 


on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no
result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that
   


is
 


supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.


   


If you have not used Ubuntu recently,

 


This is my first encounter with Ubuntu... and it is rather hard, ever
since I also have to cope with Gnome which is also not familiar to me
(used to fvwm). One of the first things that I learnt about Ubunto, is
that, by default, the user cannot become superuser (su) using the root
password
   


[snip]

Meh, the sudo thing annoys me. I just `sudo su` and get the root prompt.
I will probably get yelled at again for saying that though...

 


the wireless configurations are
/much/ different then they were in Debian Etch. Try using network
manager; I bet the icon is in the top right of your screen by the
 


clock
 


(looks like 2 computers). Left click to see the wireless networks it
 


has
 


found, right click to see the properties information.

 


I have just tried this. A left click on the icon just proposes a
   


manual
 


config (it also shows a grayed line Cabled network. After awhile, a
box appears though, but the box is blank. At this stage, the system
   


has
 


been up for at least 30 minutes. So, I clicked to manual config.
   


Once
 


there and after authentification with my pasword (it still works
   


there),
 


I clicked on wireless connexion and properties. Once there, I
deactivated the roaming mode (I hope there is no confusion in the
translation, since most everything is in French on that laptop). Once
that mode deactivated, the blue network light came on in the front
   


left
 


of the machine ; it was out before... Ah YES, I just carried another
trial... true enough, the blue light did come in only after I
deactivated roaming, but, this time, when I tried to reactivate it,
   


the
 


light did not came out and I got two networks available, one is my
neigbour's, the other one is mine. I gave the pasword as required, and
it seems to reach a connexion... the former icon is being replaced by
four bars... If I get the pointer on it, it says : connection to
wireless network Livebox-46db (0%). 
   


[snip]

0% is bad; especially if you have 4 bars shown. Something isn't right.
Post your hardware please and let the list look at it.

Have fun!
~Stack~


 


my hardware is available at http://www.teaser.fr/~bdebreil/test.txt

I have managed to get a cable DSL connexion, just plugging the cable 
from my desktop, and it worked right away, so that I have been able to 
save the trouble of typing one line after the other. ncftp was easy 
enough to install for the purpose of that transfer.


I just got the output of lspci at this stage.


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Jochen Schulz]

Kent West:
 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 2009/1/6 Kent West we...@acu.edu:
   
 (You also get spoiled to the two-finger scrolling on a track-pad fast
 too. I love it on my Debian lappy and on my Macbook; I get so frustrated
 when I sit down at a Windows laptop and don't have that feature.
 
 What's that? Link, please
 
 http://www.symphonious.net/2007/05/22/two-finger-scrolling-rocks/

AFAICS, that's almost exactly what the synaptics touchpad in my five
year old laptop could do. It didn't have two-finger scrolling but there
were scrolling regions (to the left and the bottom by default) and
two-finger click was interpreted as middle click (nice for Firefox). You
could even have right clicke by tapping in the bottom right corner. I
really liked these features as well.

But I must say that I really like the trackpoint of my Thinkpad X200
(doesn't have a touchpad) as well. Scrolling works by pressing the
middle button and bending the trackpoint. I got used to the little thing
in almost no time (less than two weeks).

J.
-- 
I spend money without thinking on products and clothes that I believe
will enhance my social standing.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Koh Choon Lin]

 Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better
 ordering a specific DELL mouse ?

OT: I am looking for a three button mouse but I do not seems to find
one wheel-less. Anyone has an idea?


-- 
Koh Choon Lin


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my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Bernard]

Hi to Everyone,

I've received my new DELL Inspiron 1525... It surely takes some time to 
get used to such a difference, whatever you speak of the overall size, 
the keyboard, Ubuntu... and, above all, the touchpad, which I find 
absolutely horrible. I thought I could just plug any spare mouse, but I 
now realize that it has to be an USB mouse... didn't even know about 
these, this is to say how old is my equipment :)


Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better 
ordering a specific DELL mouse ?


I can't keep using that touchpad. The plate is not hard enough, and the 
course of your pointer does vary depending of how light or heavy is the 
touch ; most times it appears difficult to go from one screen end to the 
other. Doing this, if your pointer stays more that a few tenth of a 
second on a live word, it will carry you there, even without any button 
pressing. On my old thinkpad, there was a red button in the midst of the 
keyboard, and it was just wonderful, compared to that failure...


To the Ubuntu GNOME desktop, I have to get used to, at least for some 
time, since I am planning to install Debian Lenny instead, as soon as 
possible, but not before I have checked that everything worked as is, 
especially WiFi.


For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !

The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi 
working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running on 
Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL box/router, 
whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi only 
on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt that 
it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The automated 
process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to 
insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have done 
on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no 
result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that is 
supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.


Do you recommend to give it a quick extra trial before installing Debian 
Lenny, or have I better switch right away ?


Micha Feigin wrote:


On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:38:39 +0100
Bernard bdebr...@teaser.fr wrote:

 


Micha Feigin wrote:

   


On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:05:31 +0100
Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.org wrote:



 


On 2009-01-04 11:28:10 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
  

   


And BTW, the ThinkPads will waste up to 3W more in Linux than in
Windows, so keep that in mind when you look at battery life figures.


 


Is there any reason? Is this specific to ThinkPads?

  

   


From talks on linux-thinkpad it is not currently know exactly why, mostly
   


speculations. Either more agresive throttling of the graphics chip and/or
putting pci to sleep. Possibly more optimizations




 

What I can say is that, with my old Thinkpad 600 then running under 
RedHat 7.2, I could expect at least three hours of work with the 
battery, even three and a half hours when the battery was new (I used 
that thing for about 6-7 years, and this is my third battery). Even 
though I did have a small MSWIN partition (Windows 98), I have never 
used it long enough to evaluate how long my laptop would work on battery 
under that OS, but I doubt that it would have be 3X more, that is 9 to 
10 hours.


This Thinkpad 600 was just a perfect machine. It ran at least 4 hours a 
day, often 6-8 hours daily for more than 5 years ; everything worked 
perfectly. I still have that machine, but then I was unable to get 
satisfactory results when it came to operate WiFi. With WEP encription 
it worked OK, but no workable issue with WPA. I then tried to install 
Debian Etch, which worked OK, but not with WPA. Also, using Debian Etch, 
a few utilities are not working properly, such as fan management and 
sleep and hibernation modes, which worked perfectly under RedHat 7.2, to 
the point that I rarely shutdown ; I just closed the lid. Under Debian 
Etch, the log messages say about fan and sleep management : BIOS too 
old... I bet I could overcome this, but I thought time might have come 
   



My guess is that the laptop uses APM which is really old. Debian must have
phased it out, but you can check the packages if there is still APM support
instead of acpi. Otherwise you can check if there is a bios upgrade to
support acpi (they will probably sell it as compatibility upgrade for win2k -
thats how toshiba presented it).

 

to get something newer, since that Thinkpad was only 300 MHz (Pentium 3) 
with a Hard Drive of 5 Gb. I then ordered a DELL Inspiron 1525, which I 
   



It's a lot of bang for the money, but it's a bit heavy and they save money
where they don't tell you, such as the touchpad, keyboard, screen. A friend of
mine got it just now, we'll see how it holds up.

 

should receive tomorrow. This is an experiment, also a bet, with the 
advantage of a really 

Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Jochen Schulz]

Bernard:
 
 Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better  
 ordering a specific DELL mouse ?

No, any USB mouse will do.

 For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !

lspci
iwconfig

 Do you recommend to give it a quick extra trial before installing Debian  
 Lenny, or have I better switch right away ?

I don't see why you try to make it all work if you are going to throw
the system away anyway.

J.
-- 
People talking a foreign language are romantic and mysterious.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Ron Johnson]

On 01/05/09 15:41, Jochen Schulz wrote:
[snip]


I don't see why you try to make it all work if you are going to throw
the system away anyway.


Theoretically, the manufacturer has tested the stick configuration. 
 So, if you can get it work with stock, you should be able to get 
it to work with a different distro.


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

I like my women like I like my coffee - purchased at above-market
rates from eco-friendly organic farming cooperatives in Latin America.


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Re: my new Inspiron - WAS: OT: laptop recomendations

[Micha Feigin]

Sorry, sent off list by mistake.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:29:36 +0100
Bernard bdebr...@teaser.fr wrote:

 Hi to Everyone,
 
 I've received my new DELL Inspiron 1525... It surely takes some time to 
 get used to such a difference, whatever you speak of the overall size, 
 the keyboard, Ubuntu... and, above all, the touchpad, which I find 
 absolutely horrible. I thought I could just plug any spare mouse, but I 

Sorry to hear that.

 now realize that it has to be an USB mouse... didn't even know about 
 these, this is to say how old is my equipment :)
 
 Do you think that just any usb mouse will do the job, or have I better 
 ordering a specific DELL mouse ?


You can plug in any usb mouse you want. It's been some time since laptops came
with a ps2 port. You can get a usb to ps/2 adaptor if you want but a usb mouse
is probably cheaper.
 
 I can't keep using that touchpad. The plate is not hard enough, and the 
 course of your pointer does vary depending of how light or heavy is the 
 touch ; most times it appears difficult to go from one screen end to the 
 other. Doing this, if your pointer stays more that a few tenth of a 
 second on a live word, it will carry you there, even without any button 
 pressing. On my old thinkpad, there was a red button in the midst of the 
 keyboard, and it was just wonderful, compared to that failure...


The trackpoint I believe it's called only exists on top end dells (latitudes)
and thinkpads (t series, not sure if the new t500 and t400 still have it)

You should try to play with the touchpad settings. It's probably and alps on
that machine so it's a bit more limited than the synaptic touchpad but are
still configurable.

Have a look at gsynaptic (graphic) or synclient (command line, included in the
synaptic x driver package) to play with the settings.
You can change speed, acceleration, sensitivity and whether tapping the
touchpad works as a button press.

 To the Ubuntu GNOME desktop, I have to get used to, at least for some 
 time, since I am planning to install Debian Lenny instead, as soon as 
 possible, but not before I have checked that everything worked as is, 
 especially WiFi.
 
 For I have not been able to get WiFi working so far !
 

Check what wifi card you have installed (lspci possibly with -vv to get more
verbose output) and we can probably help more.

 The UBUNTU v8.04 Gnome Desktop proposes a few things to get wifi 
 working, but it does not work here. On my Desktop computer (running on 
 Debian Sarge half upgraded to Etch), WiFi works on my DSL box/router, 
 whether with WEP or WPA encryption. My old Thinkpad 600 worked WiFi only 
 on WEP encryption. This one does not work at all so far ; no doubt that 
 it is my mistake, but I'd like to kwow which one is mine. The automated 
 process network tools has not given any success. I have tried to 
 insert my WPA encryption key in /etc/network/interfaces as I have done 
 on my Desktop, but I had no success. A ping on 192.168.1.1 gives no 
 result either. I have not forgotten to switch the side button that is 
 supposed to switch the network ON/OFF.
 
 Do you recommend to give it a quick extra trial before installing Debian 
 Lenny, or have I better switch right away ?
 
 Micha Feigin wrote:
 
 On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:38:39 +0100
 Bernard bdebr...@teaser.fr wrote:
 
   
 
 Micha Feigin wrote:
 
 
 
 On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:05:31 +0100
 Vincent Lefevre vinc...@vinc17.org wrote:
 
  
 
   
 
 On 2009-01-04 11:28:10 -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:

 
 
 
 And BTW, the ThinkPads will waste up to 3W more in Linux than in
 Windows, so keep that in mind when you look at battery life figures.
  
 
   
 
 Is there any reason? Is this specific to ThinkPads?
 

 
 
 
 From talks on linux-thinkpad it is not currently know exactly why, mostly
 
 
 speculations. Either more agresive throttling of the graphics chip and/or
 putting pci to sleep. Possibly more optimizations
 
 
  
 
   
 
 What I can say is that, with my old Thinkpad 600 then running under 
 RedHat 7.2, I could expect at least three hours of work with the 
 battery, even three and a half hours when the battery was new (I used 
 that thing for about 6-7 years, and this is my third battery). Even 
 though I did have a small MSWIN partition (Windows 98), I have never 
 used it long enough to evaluate how long my laptop would work on battery 
 under that OS, but I doubt that it would have be 3X more, that is 9 to 
 10 hours.
 
 This Thinkpad 600 was just a perfect machine. It ran at least 4 hours a 
 day, often 6-8 hours daily for more than 5 years ; everything worked 
 perfectly. I still have that machine, but then I was unable to get 
 satisfactory results when it came to operate WiFi. With WEP encription 
 it worked OK, but no workable issue with WPA. I then tried to install 
 Debian Etch, which worked OK, but not with WPA. Also, using Debian Etch, 
 a few utilities are not working properly, such as fan