Re: possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
On Sunday 26 Jun 2005 09:02, Marty wrote: > > That's funny, I would say the exact opposite. Debian can be setup to run > > flawlessly, so that users cannot tamper with it. > > Doesn't this presume a business environment with a support staff? Not necessarily. It could be setup for any purpose; you only need to talk to the customer, find out what they need, and configure correctly so that their needs are met. If their needs are met, they have no need to alter anything. If their needs change, they still have the choice of seeking out an expert to adjust things for them (just as they would seek out an expert to adjust their car, or anything else they have an incomplete personal knowledge of), or they can choose to try it themselves and risk screwing up. -- Lee. Please do not CC replies directly to me. I'll read them on the list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
On 6/26/05, kamaraju kusumanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dominik Margraf wrote:>Also, the possible release of Etch in Q4 of 2006 (Do you think this>timeframe is likely?) will coincide with the release of the M*Shit>Longhorn and how much share of the Windows market can be snatched by >Linux?>>My personal opinion is that, as long as vendors ship their computerswith preinsalled Microsoft products, there will be users using them. Thesooner the vendors distribute pre-installed desktops/laptops, sooner will be the cannibalization you are talking about. Actually, somelaptops are shipped with Debian installed. But their fraction is tiny. I see debian getting a foothold at the bottom before the top. freegeek.org (where I have done some volunteering, and plan to do more) has already given away thousands of refurbished computers with debian installed on them. Admittedly many of the people do the volunteer work to get their free computer, and then go, and install a M$ OS on it, but as debian improves the number of people sticking with it increases, and the evidence is in the number of people calling the tech support line. (only the pre installed debian is supported). Free geek hasn't been around all that long, but already people in other cities have copied the model. So if you want to really promote debian this is a good way. There are other examples like the cheapo PC's that Fry's sells with Linspire, and HP selling machines over seas with Ubuntu pre installed, but those aren't quite debian. >In 10-15 years time, Do you think that Debian will dominate the>desktop and the server market to the extent that most desktops/laptops >sold in department stores will be preinstalled with Debian (just like>today's M*Shit Windows)?>>I think it is the other way around. If the big companies like Dell,Sony, Toshiba etc., distribute preinstalled Linux systems, then the change will occur soon. I think many admins respect debian already, but their managers may still be under the impression that debian is a "hobby distro". Cannonical is helping to change this impression with their commercial support of an almost debian distro. HP has already adopted it as I mentioned earlier. Xandros is another debian derivative that has gained a lot of popularity. At Fry's it filled the top shelf the last time I was there. Linspire had half a shelf, and SuSe the bottom half of the section with all the rest filled in with other random distros. So I would say that debian derivatives may already have a substantial foothold in the commercial sector. Once people get used to them it won't be such a huge leap to go to debian. I don't know if debian itself will dominate, but I think in 10 years linux on the desktop is likely to be common place, and I think that a combination of debian, and debian derivatives are likely to have a significant share of the pie. It is hard to say though. A year ago who would have thought that ubuntu would spring out of no where, and in the course of a year be the most common distro on the desktops of grandparents, and significant others of geeks. And all they did was provide funding for debian developers so that they could work on it full time, sell professional support contracts, provide helpful, and easy to use communication tools for new users, clean up the interface a little, speed up the release cycle, and ship free CDs. I don't think any of these tasks are beyond the abilities of this community. I think it is up the community whether debian becomes dominant or not. If the debian community builds what people want, and need then, the the people only need to be convinced to try it, and they will stay.
Re: possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
Lee Braiden wrote: On Sunday 26 Jun 2005 08:42, Andy Streich wrote: One might hope so, but many things will have to change. Today, Debian as a desktop is only practical where there is strong, nearby, technical support. Clearly you don't like MS Windows (I don't like MS in general) but it works out of the box for nearly every user and there is a ton of software that That's funny, I would say the exact opposite. Debian can be setup to run flawlessly, so that users cannot tamper with it. Doesn't this presume a business environment with a support staff? Not exactly for every home user. But having said that, it seems Windows is moving in that direction with online "support." I hear about ISPs or cable companies writing draconian contracts, almost lease agreements, that are voided by users installing a program. Essentially the PC becomes an appliance like a cable box that is virtually owned by the ISP, upgraded without their knowledge, spied on, etc. And maybe, in that context, Linux wins. It's not really the way I want it to "win," however. Windows, on the other hand, needs constant attention to prevent it falling over due to spyware, viruses, spam, manual software installs and upgrades of using different packaging and distribution systems, users getting into things they shouldn't, and all sorts of other issues. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
On Sunday 26 Jun 2005 08:42, Andy Streich wrote: > One might hope so, but many things will have to change. Today, Debian as a > desktop is only practical where there is strong, nearby, technical support. > Clearly you don't like MS Windows (I don't like MS in general) but it works > out of the box for nearly every user and there is a ton of software that That's funny, I would say the exact opposite. Debian can be setup to run flawlessly, so that users cannot tamper with it. Windows, on the other hand, needs constant attention to prevent it falling over due to spyware, viruses, spam, manual software installs and upgrades of using different packaging and distribution systems, users getting into things they shouldn't, and all sorts of other issues. -- Lee. Please do not CC replies directly to me. I'll read them on the list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
On Saturday 25 June 2005 11:42 pm, Dominik Margraf wrote: > In 10-15 years time, Do you think that Debian will dominate the > desktop and the server market to the extent that most desktops/laptops > sold in department stores will be preinstalled with Debian (just like > today's M*Shit Windows)? One might hope so, but many things will have to change. Today, Debian as a desktop is only practical where there is strong, nearby, technical support. Clearly you don't like MS Windows (I don't like MS in general) but it works out of the box for nearly every user and there is a ton of software that the non-technical person can add-on with no trouble. There is no Debian equivalent (apt-get or aptitude or synaptic or ...?) I'd be very interested to know if *anyone* is distributing a Debian system for the non-technical user -- a basic setup with the os, a gdm, Open Office, Firefox (with the appropriate plugins and extensions installed), Thunderbird, along with a plan for painless upgrades and support. The frame isn't Windows vs Linux. It's Windows vs a tremendously fragmented Linux community with a myriad of Linux distros, all different. We can't even agree on Gnome, KDE, or someother GUI. As a geek I love all the options but it fails as a business plan. Please, if you see it differently, let me know either on this list or to me individually. Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
Dominik Margraf wrote: Also, the possible release of Etch in Q4 of 2006 (Do you think this timeframe is likely?) will coincide with the release of the M*Shit Longhorn and how much share of the Windows market can be snatched by Linux? My personal opinion is that, as long as vendors ship their computers with preinsalled Microsoft products, there will be users using them. The sooner the vendors distribute pre-installed desktops/laptops, sooner will be the cannibalization you are talking about. Actually, some laptops are shipped with Debian installed. But their fraction is tiny. In 10-15 years time, Do you think that Debian will dominate the desktop and the server market to the extent that most desktops/laptops sold in department stores will be preinstalled with Debian (just like today's M*Shit Windows)? I think it is the other way around. If the big companies like Dell, Sony, Toshiba etc., distribute preinstalled Linux systems, then the change will occur soon. raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi Graduate Student, MAE Cornell University http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
possibility of debian "cannabilizing" other Linux distributions in 5-10 years time
Hi! Now Linux is effectively "cannabilizing" the Unix market due to its lower cost of acquision and open source status which offers transparency and security. However will the ease of upgrade, versatility, security, free and non-commercial nature of Debian together with its dramatic improvements of both the functional maturity and user-friendliness (highlighted by Sarge) push Debian to "cannabilize" other Linux distributions, such as Redhat, Mandriva and especially other Debian-based distribution such as Xandros and Ubuntu (after Debian speeds up its release cycle and catches up the most modern Linux features and supports the most modern hardwares and assimilate these debian-based distributions back to Debian) within 5-10 years time? Also, the possible release of Etch in Q4 of 2006 (Do you think this timeframe is likely?) will coincide with the release of the M*Shit Longhorn and how much share of the Windows market can be snatched by Linux? In 10-15 years time, Do you think that Debian will dominate the desktop and the server market to the extent that most desktops/laptops sold in department stores will be preinstalled with Debian (just like today's M*Shit Windows)? Dominik
