Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
On 2012-01-03, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: Now you say rebooting requires and entails the exact same electrical event as a poweroff? I don't quite understand. You mean that reboot powers off the machine, and then turns it back on again immediately, whereas a shutdown/poweroff simply powers the machine off? =20 Isn't that the way that it works? I always thought that it did. All of the behavior indicates to me that it does. But I could easily be wrong about it. Perhaps one of our loyal readers will know the answer off the top of their head and will type in a response concerning actual power supply operation. Otherwise I will need to put a probe on the power pins and determine the answer by looking. Wikipedia says a soft reboot involves restarting the computer under software control without removing power, whereas a hard reboot according to them is some sort of unfortunate accident (or desperate last-ditch alternative to an unresponsive system) in which the power is cut and then restored without a proper shutdown procedure having taken place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebooting_(computing) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjg8921.51q.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown [Fwd:]
On 2012-01-03, Don Juan donjuans...@gmail.com wrote: you could always do alt+sysrq REISUB that's a gentler way to shut down No, I couldn't, because the system is halted and there's no magic left. This machine, an Acer X1430 running debian squeeze with a 2.6.32-5-amd64 kernel, always shuts down properly but periodically fails to power off. If its a nvidia or ati card you could have the dreaded issues of xorg-server not playing nicely. I just recently had to pin xorg-server in sid to be able to cleanly shutdown and reboot again. There are a bunch of bugs open in regards to nvidia and ati and most are in relation to xorg-server. I have an ATI card. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjg67vg.41k.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
Curt wrote: Periodically, for no reason I can fathom, or trace to a specific cause, when I shutdown my machine, it fails to power off. The shutdown procedure unrolls, or unfurls, as expected, but at the point where it says at the console Will now halt, instead of a power off taking place, the console displays an additional message: Power off. At that point, my only alternative is to press the power buttom at the front of the machine for five seconds, which turns the machine off (this seems a gentler alternative to yanking out the power cord from the socket, as the psu on this 'puter has no power switch). How would I go about trouble-shooting this erratic behavior? Just two months ago I had this exact same problem with a brand new Intel motherboard. Searching the motherboard site for BIOS upgrades I found that there was one available and in my case the changelog for it listed reboot problems as one of the fixes. I upgraded the BIOS and my problem was resolved. I don't know if this will be your problem too but the BIOS firmware is where I would start looking for the problem. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
On 2012-01-03, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: Just two months ago I had this exact same problem with a brand new Intel motherboard. Searching the motherboard site for BIOS upgrades I found that there was one available and in my case the changelog for it listed reboot problems as one of the fixes. I upgraded the BIOS and my problem was resolved. Reboot problems? I don't have any of those; sometimes when shutting down the machine it will not power off. I'm talking uniquely and exclusively about the electrical acpi event that occurs after the shutdown procedure has successfully terminated. Maybe in my ignorance my terminology is faulty. I don't know if this will be your problem too but the BIOS firmware is where I would start looking for the problem. I'll look into that. Thank you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjg6olp.58t.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
Curt wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: Just two months ago I had this exact same problem with a brand new Intel motherboard. Searching the motherboard site for BIOS upgrades I found that there was one available and in my case the changelog for it listed reboot problems as one of the fixes. I upgraded the BIOS and my problem was resolved. Reboot problems? I don't have any of those; sometimes when shutting down the machine it will not power off. Power-off hang. Reboot hang. Neither worked. They are the same thing. Both actions could not control the power supply from software. It just hung. Required a finger on the physical power button. Wasn't that what you said your problem was too? If not then sorry for the noise. I thought it was the same problem. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
On 2012-01-03, Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: Power-off hang. Reboot hang. Neither worked. They are the same thing. Both actions could not control the power supply from software. Well, now I'm confused. I might have a reboot problem and not know about it in the sense that I hardly ever reboot (I think the only linux reboot that was ever required of me in the course of my usage of the OS was after a kernel update). Now you say rebooting requires and entails the exact same electrical event as a poweroff? I don't quite understand. You mean that reboot powers off the machine, and then turns it back on again immediately, whereas a shutdown/poweroff simply powers the machine off? I'm talking soft reboot here, shutdown -r now. You must surely be talking hard reboot? I turn off my machine once a day, at night. There have been no problems turning it back on again, no hangs on rebooting (hard). Sorry for leading you down this trail of confusion. that what you said your problem was too? If not then sorry for the noise. I thought it was the same problem. Bob --IrhDeMKUP4DT/M7F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Digital signature --IrhDeMKUP4DT/M7F-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjg6rj5.5he.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
Curt wrote: Bob Proulx wrote: Power-off hang. Reboot hang. Neither worked. They are the same thing. Both actions could not control the power supply from software. Well, now I'm confused. I might have a reboot problem and not know about it in the sense that I hardly ever reboot (I think the only linux reboot that was ever required of me in the course of my usage of the OS was after a kernel update). Now you say rebooting requires and entails the exact same electrical event as a poweroff? I don't quite understand. You mean that reboot powers off the machine, and then turns it back on again immediately, whereas a shutdown/poweroff simply powers the machine off? Isn't that the way that it works? I always thought that it did. All of the behavior indicates to me that it does. But I could easily be wrong about it. Perhaps one of our loyal readers will know the answer off the top of their head and will type in a response concerning actual power supply operation. Otherwise I will need to put a probe on the power pins and determine the answer by looking. With the AT power standard computers only had the big clunk switch and that was the only way to power them off. With the introduction of the ATX power standard this became software controllable. But remember that there is always the +5V standby power which is always on regardless of other settings. In addition there is the Power Good signal which acts as a hardware reset signal. When the supply is off then the Power Good signal is off. Power Good should pause a few milliseconds before signaling good to allow the power supply to stabilize. Those signals come from the power supply to the computer circuitry. Going from the computer circuitry to the power supply is the Power On signal. Pulling the power on signal low signals the supply to turn on. And bringing it high will turn it off. Moving the signal high and then low again will cause the supply to turn off and then back on again and the Power Good signal will send a reset. I'm talking soft reboot here, shutdown -r now. You must surely be talking hard reboot? I turn off my machine once a day, at night. There have been no problems turning it back on again, no hangs on rebooting (hard). I was talking about both 'shutdown -h now' and 'shutdown -r now' behavior. It didn't matter. Both would hang. Upgrading the BIOS solved the problem. The note says: Fixed Linux reboot failure. http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20541/eng/MW_0098_ReleaseNotes.pdf Rebooting *is* very important. The Linux kernel routinely has security upgrades published for it. After installing the new security patch kernel it is important that the system be rebooted to the new kernel so that the security vulnerability is mitigated. I definitely want my systems to be able to reboot unattended. Sorry for leading you down this trail of confusion. Happy trails! :-) Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
problematic poweroff on shutdown
Periodically, for no reason I can fathom, or trace to a specific cause, when I shutdown my machine, it fails to power off. The shutdown procedure unrolls, or unfurls, as expected, but at the point where it says at the console Will now halt, instead of a power off taking place, the console displays an additional message: Power off. At that point, my only alternative is to press the power buttom at the front of the machine for five seconds, which turns the machine off (this seems a gentler alternative to yanking out the power cord from the socket, as the psu on this 'puter has no power switch). How would I go about trouble-shooting this erratic behavior? I hijacked another thread in which I posited that the problem was related to plugging in an external usb hard drive. This supposition has turned out to be false (post hoc ergo propter hoc), as so many of my suppositions do these days. ;-) There's nothing in the logs to distinguish the no poweroff shutdowns from the poweroff ones (I don't think; I have looked). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjg3n43.419.cu...@einstein.electron.org
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
G'day Curt. On 03/01/12 02:34, Curt wrote: There's nothing in the logs to distinguish the no poweroff shutdowns from the poweroff ones (I don't think; I have looked). I wouldn't think there would be at the very end, because everything is expecting to be powered off. Which makes everything all the more tricky. I'm assuming this is a laptop? There's a couple of things you can try, but I would suggest looking at playing about with reboot= kernel parameters. This is a pretty straight-forward thing to set up but will require some trial and error to see what works. Have a look here: http://linux.koolsolutions.com/2009/08/04/howto-fix-linux-hangfreeze-during-reboots-and-restarts/ (Just press e and add them to the kernel temporarily initially. If you find one that works you can set it up in grub later on) Also, does this occur only on shutdown? Does it happen sometimes if you're rebooting rather than powering off? Another option is to update to a newer kernel - could please clarify what you're using (Squeeze, Wheezy etc)? Cheers, Ashton. -- Ashton Fagg (ash...@fagg.id.au) Web: http://www.fagg.id.au/~ashton/ Keep calm and call Batman. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f02404c.2030...@fagg.id.au
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown [Fwd:]
Original Message Subject:Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 08:42:08 -0800 From: Don Juan donjuans...@gmail.com To: Curt cu...@free.fr On 01/02/2012 08:34 AM, Curt wrote: Periodically, for no reason I can fathom, or trace to a specific cause, when I shutdown my machine, it fails to power off. The shutdown procedure unrolls, or unfurls, as expected, but at the point where it says at the console Will now halt, instead of a power off taking place, the console displays an additional message: Power off. At that point, my only alternative is to press the power buttom at the front of the machine for five seconds, which turns the machine off (this seems a gentler alternative to yanking out the power cord from the socket, as the psu on this 'puter has no power switch). How would I go about trouble-shooting this erratic behavior? I hijacked another thread in which I posited that the problem was related to plugging in an external usb hard drive. This supposition has turned out to be false (post hoc ergo propter hoc), as so many of my suppositions do these days. ;-) There's nothing in the logs to distinguish the no poweroff shutdowns from the poweroff ones (I don't think; I have looked). you could always do alt+sysrq REISUB that's a gentler way to shut down (reboot actually) in an extreme case like that, then you could always edit grub and go directly to init 3. Depending on your kernel adding kernel.sysrq = 1 will activate it REISUB But I think you have to enable it in sysctl.conf, if I remember correctly off the top of my head. What kind of video card are you running. Have you tried switching to another console when it freezes? If its a nvidia or ati card you could have the dreaded issues of xorg-server not playing nicely. I just recently had to pin xorg-server in sid to be able to cleanly shutdown and reboot again. There are a bunch of bugs open in regards to nvidia and ati and most are in relation to xorg-server. Best guess I can make without info Sorry sent this earlier but I did not send the reply to the list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4f024af0.7050...@gmail.com
Re: problematic poweroff on shutdown
On 2012-01-02, Ashton Fagg ash...@fagg.id.au wrote: G'day Curt. On 03/01/12 02:34, Curt wrote: There's nothing in the logs to distinguish the no poweroff shutdowns from the poweroff ones (I don't think; I have looked). I wouldn't think there would be at the very end, because everything is expecting to be powered off. Which makes everything all the more tricky. I'm assuming this is a laptop? This is not a laptop. This is an Acer x1430 running debian squeeze. There's a couple of things you can try, but I would suggest looking at playing about with reboot= kernel parameters. This is a pretty straight-forward thing to set up but will require some trial and error to see what works. Have a look here: http://linux.koolsolutions.com/2009/08/04/howto-fix-linux-hangfreeze-during-reboots-and-restarts/ (Just press e and add them to the kernel temporarily initially. If you find one that works you can set it up in grub later on) Also, does this occur only on shutdown? Does it happen sometimes if you're rebooting rather than powering off? There are no freezes or hangs, nor does this have anything to do with rebooting the machine; after the shutdown procedure has terminated, the machine periodically simply fails to power off. That is all. Another option is to update to a newer kernel - could please clarify what you're using (Squeeze, Wheezy etc)? curty@einstein:~$ uname -a Linux einstein 2.6.32-5-amd64 #1 SMP Thu Nov 3 03:41:26 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux Thanks for your time. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnjg5c17.3c2.cu...@einstein.electron.org
