Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
On 12/16/23 00:26, Anssi Saari wrote: Greg Wooledge writes: In Gene's case, the problem (long startup time of some applications) does not appear to be related to his disks, but rather, to something in the desktop environment or its underlying services. But isn't it fairly easy to try another desktop environment to eliminate this as a cause? Or has this already been done? AIUI Gene already has several desktop environments installed on the same computer. This has led to the theory that those multiple desktop environments are clashing in some way that affects disk I/O for certain applications. For the RAID stuff, I think Gene said earlier he could try putting his home directory on an ordinary drive? To eliminate the RAID as a problem. Gene and various readers have proposed more than a few trouble-shooting strategies, possible solutions, and work-arounds, including the above. It is up to Gene to decide if, what, where, when, and how he is going to proceed. David
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
Greg Wooledge writes: > In Gene's case, the problem (long startup time of some applications) does > not appear to be related to his disks, but rather, to something in the > desktop environment or its underlying services. But isn't it fairly easy to try another desktop environment to eliminate this as a cause? Or has this already been done? For the RAID stuff, I think Gene said earlier he could try putting his home directory on an ordinary drive? To eliminate the RAID as a problem.
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
Perhaps that is why I run DWM rather than GNOME on this T60 Thinkpad. :p On 12/15/23 23:23, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 11:05:41PM -0500, Matt wrote: I had to go to Wikipedia to understand the context of the discussion. I did read all the posted emails in the thread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID Knowing what RAID is... is good. But ultimately, the main takeaway from this thread should be that when diagnosing a problem, you may sometimes discover that the root of the problem is different from what you thought. In Gene's case, the problem (long startup time of some applications) does not appear to be related to his disks, but rather, to something in the desktop environment or its underlying services.
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 11:05:41PM -0500, Matt wrote: > I had to go to Wikipedia to understand the context of the discussion. I did > read all the posted emails in the thread. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID Knowing what RAID is... is good. But ultimately, the main takeaway from this thread should be that when diagnosing a problem, you may sometimes discover that the root of the problem is different from what you thought. In Gene's case, the problem (long startup time of some applications) does not appear to be related to his disks, but rather, to something in the desktop environment or its underlying services.
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
I had to go to Wikipedia to understand the context of the discussion. I did read all the posted emails in the thread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
On 12/15/23 18:23, gene heskett wrote: I use the bleeding edge AppImage version of OpenSCAD, heavily, it has no such problems. And no error outputs on the cli, it Just Works. Thank you for the reply. :-) Do you mean the following? https://openscad.org/downloads.html *** correction *** OpenSCAD-2023.12.09.ai17758-x86_64.AppImage QIDISlicer gives these two errors instantly on launch from cli Cannot register URI scheme wxfs more than once ** (qidi-slicer:24330): CRITICAL **: 12:29:20.900: Cannot register URI scheme memory more than once QIDISlicer has jillions of gtk2 things: (qidi-slicer:24330): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 12:29:21.017: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar (qidi-slicer:24330): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 04:04:12.705: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkSpinButton including 50+ of the second, and many more gtk_gedget as it opens and works. And I blame the packager since there is no more gtk2 in the debian repo's. Which QIDISlicer -- e.g. version? Where did you get it -- e.g. Debian package, AppImage, source tarball, etc.? Cura, latest 5.5.0 AppImage has a few warnings but opens in about 10 seconds and works fine from there. Cura version and source? There are other AppImages but most either won't run or fail if writing. We can save those for later. digiKam v8.2.0 cannot import from my camera because (and this is a swag) it cannot get instant write perms. It can see everything in the camera, but cannot download anything. And does not report any errors on the cli when it fails. It goes thru te motions, blinking all the lights, but gimp cannot find the images it just went thru the motions of downloading. digiKam version and source? Shotwell has the delay, and can import from the camera. Shotwell version and source? Spectacle works in 5 secs, but kills plasma as it exits. Spectacle version and source? Debugging issues for any of the above programs is likely going to require duplicating your Debian configuration. Are you prepared to provide these details? As a alternative to, or in parallel with, duplicating your Debian, duplicating your apps, and debugging the combination stack, you might want to implement a work-around -- install a hypervisor, pick one application, create a virtual machine, install only enough Debian to support that application, install that application and nothing else, and use the application. Repeat for each application. (Of course, this presumes you can find a hypervisor that runs without issues on your Debian.) Another hypervisor idea -- do a fresh install of only enough Debian to support a hypervisor, install the hypervisor, then convert your existing Debian instance into a VM. In any case, that NVMe PCIe SSD would be ideal for VM's. David
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
On 12/15/23 18:23, gene heskett wrote: I use the bleeding edge AppImage version of OpenSCAD, heavily, it has no such problems. And no error outputs on the cli, it Just Works. Thank you for the reply. :-) Do you mean the following? https://openscad.org/downloads.html OpenSCAD-2021.01-x86_64.AppImage.asc QIDISlicer gives these two errors instantly on launch from cli Cannot register URI scheme wxfs more than once ** (qidi-slicer:24330): CRITICAL **: 12:29:20.900: Cannot register URI scheme memory more than once QIDISlicer has jillions of gtk2 things: (qidi-slicer:24330): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 12:29:21.017: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar (qidi-slicer:24330): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 04:04:12.705: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkSpinButton including 50+ of the second, and many more gtk_gedget as it opens and works. And I blame the packager since there is no more gtk2 in the debian repo's. Which QIDISlicer -- e.g. version? Where did you get it -- e.g. Debian package, AppImage, source tarball, etc.? Cura, latest 5.5.0 AppImage has a few warnings but opens in about 10 seconds and works fine from there. Cura version and source? There are other AppImages but most either won't run or fail if writing. We can save those for later. digiKam v8.2.0 cannot import from my camera because (and this is a swag) it cannot get instant write perms. It can see everything in the camera, but cannot download anything. And does not report any errors on the cli when it fails. It goes thru te motions, blinking all the lights, but gimp cannot find the images it just went thru the motions of downloading. digiKam version and source? Shotwell has the delay, and can import from the camera. Shotwell version and source? Spectacle works in 5 secs, but kills plasma as it exits. Spectacle version and source? Debugging issues for any of the above programs is likely going to require duplicating your Debian configuration. Are you prepared to provide these details? As a alternative to, or in parallel with, duplicating your Debian, duplicating your apps, and debugging the combination stack, you might want to implement a work-around -- install a hypervisor, pick one application, create a virtual machine, install only enough Debian to support that application, install that application and nothing else, and use the application. Repeat for each application. (Of course, this presumes you can find a hypervisor that runs without issues on your Debian.) Another hypervisor idea -- do a fresh install of only enough Debian to support a hypervisor, install the hypervisor, then convert your existing Debian instance into a VM. In any case, that NVMe PCIe SSD would be ideal for VM's. David
Re: raid10 is killing me, and applications that aren't willing towaitfor it to respond
On 12/15/23 06:17, David Christensen wrote: On 12/14/23 18:36, gene heskett wrote: On 12/14/23 16:36, Anssi Saari wrote: gene heskett writes: It repeats per gui access. Starting a gfx program such as OpenSCAD, or qidislicer from an xfce4 terminal cli, is delayed for this similar but not always identical lag. And reports odd warnings etc while its getting ready to open its gui. Does this happen with common GUI tools too like, say, Firefox? firefox, no. Or XFCE's file manager, Thunar I believe? Thunar, yes, but I don't use it, not my cup of tea. It wants to be a replacement for mc, but fails at 90% of what mc can do. Or a text editor like Gedit? Gedit has ben banned from any of my machines for at least 15 years, it made scrambled eggs out of of several linuxcnc configuration files I had to re-write from scratch, but geany has never done that. And geany is as instant as nano. Or even the XFCE terminal? Comes up instantly from the menu, I use it heavily because it has tabs. I use them much like workspaces. Is this info helpful? Thank you Anssi Saari Cheers, Gene Heskett. It sounds like OpenSCAD and gidislicer have something in common that is causing the issue, while the other apps do not have that something. So, the challenge is finding the shared object files (dynamic linking) and/or the source files (static linking) that are present in the affected programs and not present in the unaffected programs. It would be helpful if you posted a list of affected programs and a list of unaffected programs to provide alternatives for a search. Please note any programs that you did not install using conventional Debian packages (and that may be the root cause of the issue). I use the bleeding edge AppImage version of OpenSCAD, heavily, it has no such problems. And no error outputs on the cli, it Just Works. QIDISlicer gives these two errors instantly on launch from cli Cannot register URI scheme wxfs more than once ** (qidi-slicer:24330): CRITICAL **: 12:29:20.900: Cannot register URI scheme memory more than once QIDISlicer has jillions of gtk2 things: (qidi-slicer:24330): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 12:29:21.017: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar (qidi-slicer:24330): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 04:04:12.705: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkSpinButton including 50+ of the second, and many more gtk_gedget as it opens and works. And I blame the packager since there is no more gtk2 in the debian repo's. Cura, latest 5.5.0 AppImage has a few warnings but opens in about 10 seconds and works fine from there. There are other AppImages but most either won't run or fail if writing. digiKam v8.2.0 cannot import from my camera because (and this is a swag) it cannot get instant write perms. It can see everything in the camera, but cannot download anything. And does not report any errors on the cli when it fails. It goes thru te motions, blinking all the lights, but gimp cannot find the images it just went thru the motions of downloading. Shotwell has the delay, and can import from the camera. Spectacle works in 5 secs, but kills plasma as it exits. Thank you David. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
