Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[B.Hoffmann]

On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 11:15 -0500, Chris Metzler wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:47:59 -0800
> Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Saturday 04 March 2006 22:29, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> > > steef wrote:
> > > > Michael M. wrote:
> > > >> Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > >>> On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees
> > > >>> wrote:
> > >  I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally
> > >  have Linux, and even says this on their website.
> > >
> > > 
> > > NOTE: Servers != Desktop.  I have not seen _any_ reference to a dell
> > > _desktop_ computer comming preinstalled with linux, but i have seen
> > > references on dell for *SERVERS* with linux.
> > 
> > Either way, they still do not offer it, despite indications on their
> > website to the contrary.
> 
> 
> This is an couple-weeks-old thread, but just to clarify -- Dell has in
> the past sold servers with Linux installed through their website.  I know
> this because a year ago I bought several from them for a small business
> I was doing some work for.  I bought them through their website, I
> chose RHEL as the OS through a customization page, they came with RHEL
> installed and with the RHEL disks/material accompanying, and there were
> no problems whatsoever.  
> 
> That said, those customization options no longer seem available on the
> relevant purchase pages.
> 
> -c
> 
> 

On the SUSE or Novell website there's a link somewhere to order Dell
servers with SUSE Enterprise pre-installed or on disk.

Upon looking it up I found Dell give users the choice of RedHat or SUSE.
So yes, they do sell linux machines, but you have to dig hard and follow
links it seems from outside Dell's website to get there.

Kind Regards,
B.Hoffmann

Linux User #398054


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Chris Metzler]

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:47:59 -0800
Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday 04 March 2006 22:29, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> > steef wrote:
> > > Michael M. wrote:
> > >> Paul Johnson wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees
> > >>> wrote:
> >  I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally
> >  have Linux, and even says this on their website.
> >
> > 
> > NOTE: Servers != Desktop.  I have not seen _any_ reference to a dell
> > _desktop_ computer comming preinstalled with linux, but i have seen
> > references on dell for *SERVERS* with linux.
> 
> Either way, they still do not offer it, despite indications on their
> website to the contrary.


This is an couple-weeks-old thread, but just to clarify -- Dell has in
the past sold servers with Linux installed through their website.  I know
this because a year ago I bought several from them for a small business
I was doing some work for.  I bought them through their website, I
chose RHEL as the OS through a customization page, they came with RHEL
installed and with the RHEL disks/material accompanying, and there were
no problems whatsoever.  

That said, those customization options no longer seem available on the
relevant purchase pages.

-c


-- 
Chris Metzler   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(remove "snip-me." to email)

"As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I
have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[John Schmidt]

On Sunday 05 March 2006 00:47, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Saturday 04 March 2006 22:29, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> > steef wrote:
> > > Michael M. wrote:
> > >> Paul Johnson wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> >  I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
> >  Linux, and even says this on their website.
> >
> > 
> > NOTE: Servers != Desktop.  I have not seen _any_ reference to a dell
> > _desktop_ computer comming preinstalled with linux, but i have seen
> > references on dell for *SERVERS* with linux.
>
> Either way, they still do not offer it, despite indications on their
> website to the contrary.
> --
> Paul Johnson
> Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


We have purchased desktop machines from Dell with RH linux installed on them.  
This is for an academic institution which may be a factor.

John


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Paul Johnson]

On Saturday 04 March 2006 22:29, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> steef wrote:
> > Michael M. wrote:
> >> Paul Johnson wrote:
> >>> On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
>  I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
>  Linux, and even says this on their website.
>
> 
> NOTE: Servers != Desktop.  I have not seen _any_ reference to a dell
> _desktop_ computer comming preinstalled with linux, but i have seen
> references on dell for *SERVERS* with linux.

Either way, they still do not offer it, despite indications on their website 
to the contrary.
-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Katipo]

Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:


steef wrote:


Michael M. wrote:


Paul Johnson wrote:


On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:



I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
Linux, and even says this on their website. 





NOTE: Servers != Desktop.  I have not seen _any_ reference to a dell 
_desktop_ computer comming preinstalled with linux, but i have seen 
references on dell for *SERVERS* with linux.
As there is no direct order page for these servers, I can assume that 
they are mainly offered as a business sale (As someone else suggested).



Well, even taking the rider, into consideration, at the top of the 
article, it does seem to be a fairly widespread and well established rumour.


http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,42156,00.html

Regards,


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Star King of the Grape Trees]

steef wrote:


Michael M. wrote:


Paul Johnson wrote:


On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:



I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
Linux, and even says this on their website. 




NOTE: Servers != Desktop.  I have not seen _any_ reference to a dell 
_desktop_ computer comming preinstalled with linux, but i have seen 
references on dell for *SERVERS* with linux.
As there is no direct order page for these servers, I can assume that 
they are mainly offered as a business sale (As someone else suggested).



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations? - slightly OT

[B.Hoffmann]

On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 13:04 +, B.Hoffmann wrote:
> with free calls from the UK to the US
> where their support centre was

Sorry, I believe Quantex were a Canadian company actually.
-- 
B.Hoffmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations? - slightly OT

[B.Hoffmann]

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 03:10:08 +0100, Paul Johnson wrote:

> On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
>> Andrew Cady wrote:
>> > 
>>
>> I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
>> Linux, and even says this on their website.
> 
> Nothing but lip service.  I tried this week, still no dice.  They
advertise it 
> on their website, but Dell will not, under any circumstance, sell you
a 
> preinstalled Linux box.  You can even call them and ask questions,
they'll as 
> politely as possible tell you that you're a freaking moron for even
thinking 
> they do.
> 
> Two years have passed, not one bit has changed:
> http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20040918105850387
> 
> -- 
> Paul Johnson
> Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Jabber: Because it's time to move forward
http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber

It could be that DELL just isn't training their sales and support staff
well enough so they don't know about anything that is not their
mainstream
business. 
This of course could also be intentional in the sense that upper
management does not want people on the shop floor to know too much about
longer term strategic decisions  and they don't want them to blurt out
'oh
yes we offer linux if you want it' and get them into more trouble
than currently necessary with MS. After all the conglomerate with them
and
Intel has been hugely beneficial for all of them for a long time.

I for one will never ever even consider buying Dell after an experience
in
early 1998 when calling ready to order after they had already sent me
their catalogue and a cost estimate for my chosen machine. I got to
speak
to a different sales rep as the guy I'ld spoken to a few days before was
not in.
When it came to payment I indicated credit card and she asked if it's a
British card or issued abroad. I stated abroad and she told me they were
not accepting foreign issued credit cards, although it was Visa and
issued
by Barclaycard Germany - hardly esoterical you might think. I asked her
why and her tone turned bitchy going 'company policy sir', and that was
the end of it.

I proceeded to purchase a Quantex PC which turned out to be one of the
best decisions ever as it was even closer to what I was looking for and
had first class tech support - with free calls from the UK to the US
where
their support centre was and with knowledgeable, friendly and helpful
people on the other end which was important as I was going to learn how
to
reinstall Windows for the first time and also needed some drivers sent
that were not on the cd. They even sent out regular driver update cd's
every 6 months or so - shame Quantex folded.

As for Dell - as you can tell this is still bugging me and their only
chance in my eyes is to come up with a very good linux offering for me
to
even look at them again.
This is how important the first line of contact is for the customer
experience.

Kind Regards,
B.Hoffmann



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Paul Johnson]

On Friday 03 March 2006 05:58, Michael M. wrote:
> Dell sells Linux workstations to businesses, they don't sell Linux
> desktops to average joes.

They most certainly do not.  I was trying to order for the company I work for.  
They just don't sell or support Linux.  It's just false advertising and 
trademark infringement *at BEST*.  They do not sell or support Linux under 
any circumstance.

> The typical Dell customer doesn't want to know about apt-get
> this or dpkg that or Sarge, Etch, multiverse, universe, etc.

Still far less than you have to worry about with Windows by any measure.

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Paul Yasi]

I was looking into HP laptops a few days ago, though I didn't buy one yet.  I have a Powerbook right now that works OK with ubuntu, but doesn't have wifi support or a right mouse button.  I was checking out the nc6220 and nc6230 on HP's website - they seem to have hardware that is supported by linux.  You can buy them without windows, but it only saves $75 US, and you can sometimes get a better deal if you get one of their prebuilt packages that includes windows installed.
PaulOn 3/1/06, Britton Kerin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready touse laptop with:   wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP   open office   CD ROM that automounts   SD card reader that automounts   working sound card
   reasonable memory and disk   working video acceleration (at least a bit)The last item is nonessential, needed only to makeX more comfortable, not for games or anything.I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
should be available for less given the windows crudthat is out there and the supposed high cost ofWindows XP.Is it possible to get such a system?  I tried withlinuxcertified but the system she got was broken in
a variety of ways.  I'd really appreciate it ifanyone has any reccomentations of a model that theyknow from personnal experience will work.Thanks,Britton--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to 
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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[steef]

Michael M. wrote:

Paul Johnson wrote:

On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:


I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
Linux, and even says this on their website.


Nothing but lip service.  I tried this week, still no dice.  They 
advertise it on their website, but Dell will not, under any 
circumstance, sell you a preinstalled Linux box.  You can even call 
them and ask questions, they'll as politely as possible tell you that 
you're a freaking moron for even thinking they do.


Two years have passed, not one bit has changed:
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20040918105850387


Dell sells Linux workstations to businesses, they don't sell Linux 
desktops to average joes.  I suspect it's a support issue.  Unless 
there is some Linux vendor willing and able to provide entry-level OS 
support, I don't blame Dell for not wanting to take that on 
themselves.  Dell is huge and consequently somewhat limited in its 
flexibility, like most (all?) large companies.


A few years ago I had a Dell and had a problem with a fan that I had 
to call tech support about.  The rep I spoke with said with surprise, 
"Oh, you know about computers!" just because I knew how to get into 
the bios.  Right now, people who use Linux are a self-selecting 
group.  We aren't all gurus or technophiles -- goodness knows I'm not! 
-- but we are willing to read documentation, troubleshoot, read log 
files, mess around with configs and so on to get things working.  The 
typical Dell customer is not.  The typical Dell customer doesn't want 
to know about apt-get this or dpkg that or Sarge, Etch, multiverse, 
universe, etc.  Typical Dell customers will think their computers are 
broken when they refuse to play a particular .wmv file they found in a 
Yahoo! Group.


I suspect it will be many years before any of this changes.


this is what de the dutch dell site tells us:

Koop on line of bel 020 674 4987



	Skip to main content 
 
 	

Nederland   Nederland

MIDDELGROTE EN GROOTZAKELIJKE ONDERNEMINGEN 




Zoeken  

Advanced Search 




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van bestelling 




TERUG NAAR: Nederland 
 > MIDDELGROTE 
EN GROOTZAKELIJKE ONDERNEMINGEN 
 
	



*Dell and Novell Expand Partnership to Provide Customers Certified 
SUSE LINUX Platforms and Services*


SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 on Select Dell PowerEdge Servers 
Extends Customer Choice and Value


Round Rock, Texas and Waltham, Massachusetts, oktober 27, 2004

Dell and Novell today announced an agreement to offer Novell SUSE 
LINUX Enterprise Server 9 certified on select Dell PowerEdge servers 
worldwide.


This announcement provides Dell and Novell customers with more choice 
for fully-supported Linux platform deployments, and at the best value 
in the industry. Dell provides a single point of contact for 
customers' support needs; Dell Services will also assist customers 
throughout the lifecycle of their deployments.


Dell customers will be able to purchase Novell SUSE LINUX Enterprise 
Server 9 with their single-and dual-processor PowerEdge servers. The 
agreement reinforces Dell and Novell's longstanding collaboration to 
provide customers with superior standards-based computing pl

Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Michael M.]

Paul Johnson wrote:

On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:


I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
Linux, and even says this on their website.


Nothing but lip service.  I tried this week, still no dice.  They advertise it 
on their website, but Dell will not, under any circumstance, sell you a 
preinstalled Linux box.  You can even call them and ask questions, they'll as 
politely as possible tell you that you're a freaking moron for even thinking 
they do.


Two years have passed, not one bit has changed:
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20040918105850387


Dell sells Linux workstations to businesses, they don't sell Linux 
desktops to average joes.  I suspect it's a support issue.  Unless there 
is some Linux vendor willing and able to provide entry-level OS support, 
I don't blame Dell for not wanting to take that on themselves.  Dell is 
huge and consequently somewhat limited in its flexibility, like most 
(all?) large companies.


A few years ago I had a Dell and had a problem with a fan that I had to 
call tech support about.  The rep I spoke with said with surprise, "Oh, 
you know about computers!" just because I knew how to get into the bios. 
 Right now, people who use Linux are a self-selecting group.  We aren't 
all gurus or technophiles -- goodness knows I'm not! -- but we are 
willing to read documentation, troubleshoot, read log files, mess around 
with configs and so on to get things working.  The typical Dell customer 
is not.  The typical Dell customer doesn't want to know about apt-get 
this or dpkg that or Sarge, Etch, multiverse, universe, etc.  Typical 
Dell customers will think their computers are broken when they refuse to 
play a particular .wmv file they found in a Yahoo! Group.


I suspect it will be many years before any of this changes.

--
Michael


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Ralph Katz]

On 03/02/2006, Paul Johnson wrote:

> On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> 
>>> Andrew Cady wrote:
>> 
> 

>>> I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally
>>> have Linux, and even says this on their website.
> 
> 
> Nothing but lip service.  I tried this week, still no dice.  They
> advertise it on their website, but Dell will not, under any
> circumstance, sell you a preinstalled Linux box.  You can even call
> them and ask questions, they'll as politely as possible tell you that
> you're a freaking moron for even thinking they do.

You're not alone.  Read this article...
Quoting from: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7763046071.html

Why Won't Dell Promote Its Linux Desktops?

> Last Thursday, when I wrote about Dell's new Linux desktop, was one
> of the most frustrating days of my professional life. My eWEEK
> colleague John Spooner and I tried our best to get Dell to confess
> that they really had released an honest-to-God Linux desktop.
> 
> But Dell simply wouldn't do it.



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Paul Johnson]

On Thursday 02 March 2006 01:20, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> Andrew Cady wrote:
> > 
> >
> >(If you're thinking that just because Dell can't switch to Linux they
> >have no power, consider that they *could* start shipping PCs with
> >Firefox, or servers optionally with Linux, or PCs without OSes).
>
> I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have
> Linux, and even says this on their website.

Nothing but lip service.  I tried this week, still no dice.  They advertise it 
on their website, but Dell will not, under any circumstance, sell you a 
preinstalled Linux box.  You can even call them and ask questions, they'll as 
politely as possible tell you that you're a freaking moron for even thinking 
they do.

Two years have passed, not one bit has changed:
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20040918105850387

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Marc Shapiro]

Johannes Wiedersich wrote:


Britton Kerin wrote:


I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to use laptop with:
 wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP
   open office
   CD ROM that automounts
   SD card reader that automounts
   working sound card
   reasonable memory and disk
   working video acceleration (at least a bit)



Unfortunately, my personal experience is that your requirements won't 
work out of the box. You may be lucky and find a laptop that supports 
the hardware you require, but you still need to set it up yourself. 
I've been having reasonably good luck with my expensive ThinkPad, but 
wireless, automounting, the modem don't work out of the box.
With debian, eg. you manually have to add your user to the cdrom and 
audio and video groups to fully use your cdrom/dvd.


And I found that I had to add my wife to the dialup group, even though 
we have DSL and do not use a modem, in order to access the USB ports 
because /dev/ttyUSBxx seem to require it.


--
Marc Shapiro
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Star King of the Grape Trees]

Alvin Oga wrote:




dell cuts corners by:
a) making a custom motherboard
b) making a custom power supply
c) making custom cables and pcb to hold things together
d) making custom firmware to assure you're stuck into their modus operandi

e) charging you for 3yr warranty for their proprietory hardware
  - do you really want to get a new P3-2Ghz system as a warranty
  replacement today for what is the end of your 3yr-1day warranty
  expiration period

  - 3yr or 5yr warranty of PC parts is a "scam"
 



Maybe so, but apparently Dell also offers anti-theft warranty, and also 
covers the laptop for when you drop it, etc. With these in mind, I think 
it's still decent. (Note, I don't use Dell, as they did not have the 
hardware I wanted, such as ATI graphics)



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Johannes Wiedersich]

Britton Kerin wrote:
I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to 
use laptop with:
  
   wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP

   open office
   CD ROM that automounts
   SD card reader that automounts
   working sound card
   reasonable memory and disk
   working video acceleration (at least a bit)


Unfortunately, my personal experience is that your requirements won't 
work out of the box. You may be lucky and find a laptop that supports 
the hardware you require, but you still need to set it up yourself. I've 
been having reasonably good luck with my expensive ThinkPad, but 
wireless, automounting, the modem don't work out of the box.
With debian, eg. you manually have to add your user to the cdrom and 
audio and video groups to fully use your cdrom/dvd.


On the other hand, one has to be fair and say that WinXP doesn't work 
out of the box as well, you have to install office, adobe reader, a 
virus scanner... And after that you should regularly look for security 
updates of all the software that is not covered by 'windows update'. 
(And once you learned all the tweaks to set up a network in Win98, NT, 
XP, it won't be long until they revamp their OS and the next new PC in 
your network will break it).


My personal experience is that it takes more time to set up a linux 
laptop, and then it works. It constantly takes time to keep your windows 
system running and still you'll never know if there is a virus or trojan 
hidden from you.


I recommend looking at
http://www.linux-laptop.net/
and
http://tuxmobil.org/
and to expect to do some further research until your requirements work.

As suggested in the other posts, take a Knoppix, Ubuntu live CD to the 
shop.


Johannes


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Doofus]

Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:


Andrew Cady wrote:




(If you're thinking that just because Dell can't switch to Linux they
have no power, consider that they *could* start shipping PCs with
Firefox, or servers optionally with Linux, or PCs without OSes).
 



I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have Linux,




Absolutely. We buy 1750s at work by the hundred, supplied without any MS 
products. Not sure if they're actually preloaded with Redhat, but Redhat 
is supplied along with linux-specific utilities and documentation from Dell.



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Star King of the Grape Trees]

Andrew Cady wrote:




(If you're thinking that just because Dell can't switch to Linux they
have no power, consider that they *could* start shipping PCs with
Firefox, or servers optionally with Linux, or PCs without OSes).
 



I am very certain that Dell does sell servers that optionally have 
Linux, and even says this on their website.


This is on: 
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pedge_sc1425_au?c=au&l=en&s=lca


# To ease purchasing and deployment, Dell offers validated, configured & 
supported */SC/*1425 cluster bundles (8, 16, 32, 64, 128 and 256 nodes).
# The bundles are built on Linux^®   RHEL 3 ES/WS and are offered with 
four different interconnects: Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet^1 , 
Myrinet and Infiniband.



That is definetly Linux.


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Alvin Oga]

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Paul Johnson wrote:

> > Dell is not paying $135 for a copy of Windows.
> 
> Are you sure?  Look how they cut corners on hardware right up through the 
> midrange.

dell cuts corners by:
a) making a custom motherboard
b) making a custom power supply
c) making custom cables and pcb to hold things together
d) making custom firmware to assure you're stuck into their modus operandi

e) charging you for 3yr warranty for their proprietory hardware
   - do you really want to get a new P3-2Ghz system as a warranty
   replacement today for what is the end of your 3yr-1day warranty
   expiration period

   - 3yr or 5yr warranty of PC parts is a "scam"

yes ... most all oem vendors that sell microsoft installed with 
their hardwqre have special licenses that allows them to pay an
order of magnitude less tha "oem retail pricing"

- try to get hold of a microsoft reserller license agreement
  that allows computer integrators to sell their hw bundled w/ ms stuff

c ya
alvin


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Hal Vaughan]

On Wednesday 01 March 2006 22:37, Andrew Cady wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 07:29:15PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Wednesday 01 March 2006 19:24, Andrew Cady wrote:
> > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 05:56:05PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 01 March 2006 13:25, Star King of the Grape Trees 
wrote:
> > > > > Windows is very expensive *UNLESS* you get some sort of
> > > > > volume discount or you purchase it with your computer.  I
> > > > > have heard of places where windows cost $30 AUD or less, due
> > > > > to these deals with MS.
> > > >
> > > > Microsoft's OEM list price for Windows XP Pro is US$135.00
> > > > right now, generally speaking, subtract that amount for the
> > > > fair market cost of the hardware without Windows.
> > >
> > > Dell is not paying $135 for a copy of Windows.
> >
> > Are you sure?  Look how they cut corners on hardware right up
> > through the midrange.
>
> Dell has immense negotiating power.  We can't know what exactly they
> do pay for Windows, or for an Intel CPU, but it's certainly going to
> be less than anyone else.
>
> (If you're thinking that just because Dell can't switch to Linux they
> have no power, consider that they *could* start shipping PCs with
> Firefox, or servers optionally with Linux, or PCs without OSes).

I think it's specifically in the licensing agreement with Microsoft that 
they can't sell a PC without an OS.  They were for a while, and MS 
jumped on them, so they started shipping them with unformatted drives 
and FreeDOS on a CD that came with the computer.  Slight technicality, 
but an entertaining one.  It made several stories on RumorDot -- er, 
Slashdot.

Hal


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[kamaraju kusumanchi]

Britton Kerin wrote:

I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to 
use laptop with:
 
  wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP

  open office
  CD ROM that automounts
  SD card reader that automounts
  working sound card
  reasonable memory and disk
  working video acceleration (at least a bit)

The last item is nonessential, needed only to make
X more comfortable, not for games or anything.

I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
should be available for less given the windows crud
that is out there and the supposed high cost of
Windows XP.
 

Why not go to your local store and pop in the ubuntu live CD to see if 
everything works or not! Debian does not have its own live CD yet. But 
you can use knoppix live Cd or ubuntu live CD to see if everything works 
under Linux. If it works under knoppix or ubutnu chances are that it 
will work in Debian as well.


raju

--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[John Hasler]

Paul Johnson writes:
> Microsoft's OEM list price for Windows XP Pro is US$135.00 right now...

However, there is no way to know what any given OEM actually pays.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Andrew Cady]

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 07:29:15PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 March 2006 19:24, Andrew Cady wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 05:56:05PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 01 March 2006 13:25, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> > > > Windows is very expensive *UNLESS* you get some sort of volume
> > > > discount or you purchase it with your computer.  I have heard of
> > > > places where windows cost $30 AUD or less, due to these deals
> > > > with MS.
> > >
> > > Microsoft's OEM list price for Windows XP Pro is US$135.00 right
> > > now, generally speaking, subtract that amount for the fair market
> > > cost of the hardware without Windows.
> >
> > Dell is not paying $135 for a copy of Windows.
> 
> Are you sure?  Look how they cut corners on hardware right up through
> the midrange.

Dell has immense negotiating power.  We can't know what exactly they do
pay for Windows, or for an Intel CPU, but it's certainly going to be
less than anyone else.

(If you're thinking that just because Dell can't switch to Linux they
have no power, consider that they *could* start shipping PCs with
Firefox, or servers optionally with Linux, or PCs without OSes).


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Paul Johnson]

On Wednesday 01 March 2006 19:24, Andrew Cady wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 05:56:05PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > On Wednesday 01 March 2006 13:25, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
> > > Windows is very expensive *UNLESS* you get some sort of volume
> > > discount or you purchase it with your computer.  I have heard of
> > > places where windows cost $30 AUD or less, due to these deals with
> > > MS.
> >
> > Microsoft's OEM list price for Windows XP Pro is US$135.00 right now,
> > generally speaking, subtract that amount for the fair market cost of
> > the hardware without Windows.
>
> Dell is not paying $135 for a copy of Windows.

Are you sure?  Look how they cut corners on hardware right up through the 
midrange.

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Andrew Cady]

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 05:56:05PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 March 2006 13:25, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
>
> > Windows is very expensive *UNLESS* you get some sort of volume
> > discount or you purchase it with your computer.  I have heard of
> > places where windows cost $30 AUD or less, due to these deals with
> > MS.
>
> Microsoft's OEM list price for Windows XP Pro is US$135.00 right now,
> generally speaking, subtract that amount for the fair market cost of
> the hardware without Windows.

Dell is not paying $135 for a copy of Windows.


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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 11:35:18AM -0900, Britton Kerin wrote:
> 
> I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to 
> use laptop with:
>   
>wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP
Hi Britton
many new lappys have this so:
this is a driver support and configuration
issue
>open office
this is not a laptop issue
>CD ROM that automounts
this is a configuration issue
>SD card reader that automounts
this is a driver support and configuration
>working sound card
this is a driver support and configuration
>reasonable memory and disk
a non-issue
>working video acceleration (at least a bit)
many recent cards (2+ years old) have at least a free driver but the
more recent, the less support. Need to look carefully at this issue.
> 
> The last item is nonessential, needed only to make
> X more comfortable, not for games or anything.
> 
> I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
Cost is based upon meeting your requirements. The more requirements, the
more cost. 
> should be available for less given the windows crud
> that is out there and the supposed high cost of
> Windows XP.
> 
> Is it possible to get such a system?  I tried with
> linuxcertified but the system she got was broken in
> a variety of ways.  I'd really appreciate it if
> anyone has any reccomentations of a model that they
> know from personnal experience will work.
I'd suggest getting a free ubuntu cd or getting a knoppix live cd and
bring it into store to test any and all systems. This is the best way to
get REAL first hand evidence of what will work.
Cheers,
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[M-L]

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:25 am, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote:
>> Britton Kerin wrote:
>>
>> >I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to
>> >use laptop with:
>> >
>> >   wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP
>> >   open office
>> >   CD ROM that automounts
>> >   SD card reader that automounts
>> >   working sound card
>> >   reasonable memory and disk
>> >   working video acceleration (at least a bit)
>> >
>> >The last item is nonessential, needed only to make
>> >X more comfortable, not for games or anything.
>> >
>> >I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
>> >should be available for less given the windows crud
>> >that is out there and the supposed high cost of
>> >Windows XP.
>> >
>> >Is it possible to get such a system?  I tried with
>> >linuxcertified but the system she got was broken in
>> >a variety of ways.  I'd really appreciate it if
>> >anyone has any reccomentations of a model that they
>> >know from personnal experience will work.
>> >
>> Usually, personal experiences are with laptops that are now out of
> date. > (ie, they'll recommend their laptop after they've used it for a
> month or > so - which happens to be when the laptops have stopped being
> sold). >
>> Windows is very expensive *UNLESS* you get some sort of volume
> discount > or you purchase it with your computer.
>> I have heard of places where windows cost $30 AUD or less, due to
> these > deals with MS.
>>
>> You can spend $1000 ?  $1000 AUD will get you a laptop,
>> but afaik, only DELL can get one that cheap, and it will not have
>> hardware accelleration.
>>
>> I have a (fairly expensive) laptop, which has a SD Card reader,
> however > the reader does not work in linux.  If price is a concern, I
> suggest an > external adapter.
>>

I have found much as the above. With laptops you are very much on your own, 
and that means a willingness to play around and read extensively. There are 
experiences with laptops written up, but when the hardware list is negotiated 
it is quickly revealed that some changes have been made which doesn't apply 
to what's been posted.

So you just have to suck it and see, and hope that you know enough or can find 
the reference on the net, that will allow you to get your lappy working as 
best you can. That is unless you buy or intend to buy something refurbished, 
as long as the people who refurbished it will let you know if something which 
isn't standard in the original machine has been added. Then you might find 
something relevant on the net.

Laptops move just a little to quickly in the market to make setting them up 
easy to follow from experiences and instructions from a previous user. 
Sometimes you can find information that applies to your laptop general model, 
and get information from another laptop writeup, that will help you with a 
particular type of software inserted in your own.

It's not impossible to get a laptop working well in Linux, but it can take 
time.

YMMV


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+++
I don't but hardly want one thing, If I knew what that was, I would have it. 
-Anon

***
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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Star King of the Grape Trees]

Britton Kerin wrote:

I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to 
use laptop with:
 
  wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP

  open office
  CD ROM that automounts
  SD card reader that automounts
  working sound card
  reasonable memory and disk
  working video acceleration (at least a bit)

The last item is nonessential, needed only to make
X more comfortable, not for games or anything.

I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
should be available for less given the windows crud
that is out there and the supposed high cost of
Windows XP.

Is it possible to get such a system?  I tried with
linuxcertified but the system she got was broken in
a variety of ways.  I'd really appreciate it if
anyone has any reccomentations of a model that they
know from personnal experience will work.


Usually, personal experiences are with laptops that are now out of date.
(ie, they'll recommend their laptop after they've used it for a month or 
so - which happens to be when the laptops have stopped being sold).


Windows is very expensive *UNLESS* you get some sort of volume discount 
or you purchase it with your computer.
I have heard of places where windows cost $30 AUD or less, due to these 
deals with MS.


You can spend $1000 ?  $1000 AUD will get you a laptop, 
but afaik, only DELL can get one that cheap, and it will not have 
hardware accelleration.


I have a (fairly expensive) laptop, which has a SD Card reader, however 
the reader does not work in linux.  If price is a concern, I suggest an 
external adapter.



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Re: ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[noc ops]

So far my search has led me to

www.system76.com for ubuntu laptops.

Ask for Carl. Down to earth dude!

I'd be interested in other leads as well.


regards,
/virendra




Britton Kerin wrote:
> I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to 
> use laptop with:
>   
>wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP
>open office
>CD ROM that automounts
>SD card reader that automounts
>working sound card
>reasonable memory and disk
>working video acceleration (at least a bit)
> 
> The last item is nonessential, needed only to make
> X more comfortable, not for games or anything.
> 
> I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
> should be available for less given the windows crud
> that is out there and the supposed high cost of
> Windows XP.
> 
> Is it possible to get such a system?  I tried with
> linuxcertified but the system she got was broken in
> a variety of ways.  I'd really appreciate it if
> anyone has any reccomentations of a model that they
> know from personnal experience will work.
> 
> Thanks,
> Britton
> 
> 
> 


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ready to use debian or ubuntu laptop reccomendations?

[Britton Kerin]

I would like to buy my non-linux girlfriend a ready to 
use laptop with:
  
   wireless scan, falling back to CAT5 DHCP
   open office
   CD ROM that automounts
   SD card reader that automounts
   working sound card
   reasonable memory and disk
   working video acceleration (at least a bit)

The last item is nonessential, needed only to make
X more comfortable, not for games or anything.

I can spend about $1000, though it seems like they
should be available for less given the windows crud
that is out there and the supposed high cost of
Windows XP.

Is it possible to get such a system?  I tried with
linuxcertified but the system she got was broken in
a variety of ways.  I'd really appreciate it if
anyone has any reccomentations of a model that they
know from personnal experience will work.

Thanks,
Britton



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