Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
Micha Feigin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 08:53:23PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: There's one CCD cell per image pixel, with the exception of the D1x, which has a strange layout[1]. There is no way that this can be true physically. Of course there is, since that's the way the world works. You don't think so, because you're wrong. You've managed to acquire a good theoretical understanding of Bayer while completely missing the crucial bit that you neither need nor want four adjacent photo sites per output image pixel. (A miracle of modern education.) In real cameras, each pixel gets color info that it's missing by interpolating from its neighbors. http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/Color_Filter_Array_01.htm Before you try to argue this point again, find one camera that works the way you suggest, or one website that explains that Bayer cameras have 4 photo sites per output pixel. Otherwise, don't confuse people who haven't learned not to listen to you yet. As an aside, the reason you don't want to have four adjacent Bayer'd CCD cells per output pixel is that the decreased CCD size would result in more noise, canceling out the benefit you would get from slightly better color resolution. The Foveon chips do have four photo sites per pixel, allowing true color detection, but they're stacked, not adjacent. As a side note, what could be interesting is if you could disable or remove the color mask to get 4 times the resolution on B/W pictures. Kodak used to offer one of their DSLRs with and without the color filter. The DCS760 was color, the DCS760M was B/W, lacking the filter. But both output the same 3032 x 2008 file (gee, looks awfully close to the resolution of the CCD, doesn't it?) and the somewhat increased luminance resolution in the b/w wasn't interesting enough for photographers to buy enough. Kodak doesn't offer them anymore. (I'm pretty sure there are monochrome digital backs, but those are an entirely different price range.) http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/cameras/dcs760/specs.jhtml?id=0.1.18.18.3.26.3.20.14lc=en http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/products/cameras/dcs760M/specs.jhtml?id=0.1.18.18.3.26.3.20.20.3.4lc=en http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Kodak/kodak_dcs760.asp -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. Cats land on their feet, but at 10 stories, it doesn't matter. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
I am using Nikon 4300 with linux and I am able to access it as mass storage without any problem. I just have to mount the camera as usb mass storage and copy the image files to my hdd. If any body is interested in having more info, kindly let me know. Yeah, Me! I have a 5700 and will eventually be using it with Linux. But I sort of figured I would end up running the Nikon package under Windows via VMware under Linux. Getting Windows out of the picture completely is a good idea. What you're doing wouldn't get me any of the features of the Nikon software, though (not that I'm *using* any of them yet, mind you, but...) - for that, I'd need the Nikon software to run directly under Linux?. I'm sure my 5700 will hook up the same way as the 4300... maybe you could post the mount command you're using. Did you have to load anything special as far as USB drivers goes, in order to support the camera? Any information I get, I will capture in a file for Future Use... Doesn't this model and many others by Nikon suffer from low light focusing problems? They lack a low-light focusing lamp, Canan doesn't. That is a problem which is very annoying in low light. I haven't noticed that, but I have noticed the autofocus going nuts when I get up close to a tree with light shining through the leaves; it can't decide what to focus on. I've been forced to turn on the manual focus under such circumsatances. Also, it goes wacky when it tries to resolve something against a plain white background, and I've been forced to troll all the way to the bottom of the white correction menus to try to rearrange its attitude. But I'm always getting into performance corners with everything and then demanding too much, and Nikon support will probably fix my problem anyway when I get around to bugging them about it... What are you taking pictures of in really low light, anyway?? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Mon, Jul 19, 2004 at 11:16:33PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am using Nikon 4300 with linux and I am able to access it as mass
storage without any problem. I just have to mount the camera as usb mass
storage and copy the image files to my hdd. If any body is interested in
having more info, kindly let me know.
Yeah, Me!
I have a 5700 and will eventually be using it with Linux. But I sort
of figured I would end up running the Nikon package under Windows via
VMware under Linux. Getting Windows out of the picture completely is a
good idea. What you're doing wouldn't get me any of the features of
the Nikon software, though (not that I'm *using* any of them yet, mind
you, but...) - for that, I'd need the Nikon software to run directly
under Linux?.
Just out of curiosity, what does that SW offer?
I'm sure my 5700 will hook up the same way as the 4300... maybe you
could post the mount command you're using. Did you have to load
anything special as far as USB drivers goes, in order to support the
camera? Any information I get, I will capture in a file for Future
Use...
I don't own a Nikon camera, but I access mine as a USB mass storage
device as well.
I added the following two lines to /etc/modules:
usb-storage
uhci-hcd
I also configured udev to automatically create a device whenever I plug
in the camera (/etc/udev/rules.d/local.rules):
BUS=usb, SYSFS{idProduct}=4015, SYSFS{idVendor}=0686, KERNEL=sd?1, NAME=%k,
SYMLINK=camera usb/cam
I used [1] to find out how to add rules to udev.
/M
1. http://www.reactivated.net/udevrules.php
--
Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://magnus.therning.org/
The cracked ones let in the light.
-- Tom Peters
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Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
Just out of curiosity, what does that SW offer? Well, there are several packages, one of which is always bundled with the camera and the others for sale separately. The Nikon website is a better source of info than I am, actually. But the direct camera support package provides USB detection, automatic downloading, a bunch of cosmetic viewer features... The buy-up packages provide image correction and editing, I think. (I haven't loaded it yet...). Some of those things are built into Windoze XP, I think (I'm not, and never will be, upgraded beyond Win 98), so the Nikon software for older versions of Windoze provides whatever the older versions don't have... The real benefit to having the Windoze apps (Nikon or not) to support the camera is in being able to load camera (or film scanner) images directly into something like Photoshop without having to go through any JPEG or other compression, so that you can manipulate raw images. (Again, I'm picking nits because I usually don't *do* this - but that's where hooking the camera up to Linux might start producing limitations if you don't have whatever Nikon or other software provides the capability...) I think the Nikon load you get with the camera (or scanner) provides the hooks (drivers or driver linkage?) for some of the other commercial apps like Photoshop to get at the camera or scanner directly... not sure though. I added the following two lines to /etc/modules: . . . Thanks You probably just saved me an eventual two or three evenings of website/document/list trolling... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
In that case I would also suggest you avoid anything Sony. I've never seen worse customer support (and that even for very high end equipment company customers, not just the small end user), and when they do bother making a proper piece of hardware they seriously cripple it with their copyright paranoia (see NetMD for example). Yipes... I've bought some of their consumer electronics and had good luck with it (including service), but never anything support-intensive (i.e. programmable in any way). I can easily believe they could have gone bad when they got into anything with intelligence in it... I just don't buy anything that has copy protection or blocked channels or anything of the sort, without making sure whatever is blocked/banned/etc. can be defeated somehow. It's a matter of principle; as soon as a government or industry decides to ban something, I run out and buy lots of whatever it is immediately whether I want it or not. I am looking at linux support for coolpix 4500, and it seems to exist (haven't had a chance to test yet, its not mine). Nikon seems to support both mass storage and ptp on their cameras. They do on some of their cameras, at least, according to the website you mention below (interesting site, btw...). For some more information have a look http://www.teaser.fr/~hfiguiere/linux/digicam.html Canon may be a bit more troublesome, then nikon. You should look for a camera with both usb-storage support (easiest way to download pictures) and ptp support which will give you access to some more advanced camera features. I am not sure if it will allow you to access all the features of the camera from linux (some of the high end cameras are customizable and may require dedicated software). *That* is the thing I'm concerned about, when thinking about going to direct Linux support, vs. using Linux with VMware to get at the Gatesware to get at the Nikonware. But I haven't dug into the camera features enough to know what features are available that might be impacted, yet... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The real benefit to having the Windoze apps (Nikon or not) to support the camera is in being able to load camera (or film scanner) images directly into something like Photoshop without having to go through any JPEG or other compression, so that you can manipulate raw images. Note, this only matters if you have set the camera to save things as RAW format. If the camera is saving JPEGs, the software can't convert them back into RAW... info has already been lost. Why does RAW matter? It is uncompressed and has more bits than a JPEG (12 bits on my D1x) so you have more range when doing exposure adjustments and whatnot. There's a program called dcraw which will convert many forms of camera raw files into standard formats for editing. But it's not quite as good as the Nikon Capture software, because Capture makes it very easy to do common things like fix exposure and has cool toys like DEE which is basically a magic exposure fixer. Nothing you can't do without capture, but you have to work harder to get there. -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 12:33:31AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just out of curiosity, what does that SW offer? Well, there are several packages, one of which is always bundled with the camera and the others for sale separately. The Nikon website is a better source of info than I am, actually. But the direct camera support package provides USB detection, automatic downloading, a bunch of cosmetic viewer features... The buy-up packages provide image correction and editing, I think. (I haven't loaded it yet...). Some of those things are built into Windoze XP, I think (I'm not, and never will be, upgraded beyond Win 98), so the Nikon software for older versions of Windoze provides whatever the older versions don't have... The real benefit to having the Windoze apps (Nikon or not) to support the camera is in being able to load camera (or film scanner) images directly into something like Photoshop without having to go through any JPEG or other compression, so that you can manipulate raw images. (Again, I'm picking nits because I usually don't *do* this - but that's where hooking the camera up to Linux might start producing limitations if you don't have whatever Nikon or other software provides the capability...) I think the Nikon load you get with the camera (or scanner) provides the hooks (drivers or driver linkage?) for some of the other commercial apps like Photoshop to get at the camera or scanner directly... not sure though. I played around with the coolpix 4500 we have in our lab in uni. It works both as a usb-storage device and ptp which gives some more capabilities (you need to chose the active method in the camera's menus). As a usb storage device the camera works like a disk-on-key device. hotplug loads the modules for me (usb-storage and scsi support) and autofs mounts the device. I don't remember what formating the camera uses but you can mount it using one of mount -t vfat /dev/sda /mnt mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt That is assuming that it will be the first scsi disk (if you don't have another disk on key connected or similar). It is then accessible as a regular disk.. For ptp you need gphoto (www.gphoto.org) and possible some gui above it. If you work with jpeg then you have no problem from that point, just open it in gimp. Nikon's raw format is called nef. Have a look at: http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/ There is a program to decode nef and a plugin for gimp to open the files directly without conversion. Note that all this should also be true for canon (the raw decoding program included). I added the following two lines to /etc/modules: . . . Thanks You probably just saved me an eventual two or three evenings of website/document/list trolling... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 01:34:10AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In that case I would also suggest you avoid anything Sony. I've never seen worse customer support (and that even for very high end equipment company customers, not just the small end user), and when they do bother making a proper piece of hardware they seriously cripple it with their copyright paranoia (see NetMD for example). Yipes... I've bought some of their consumer electronics and had good luck with it (including service), but never anything support-intensive (i.e. programmable in any way). I can easily believe they could have gone bad when they got into anything with intelligence in it... I just don't buy anything that has copy protection or blocked channels or anything of the sort, without making sure whatever is blocked/banned/etc. can be defeated somehow. It's a matter of principle; as soon as a government or industry decides to ban something, I run out and buy lots of whatever it is immediately whether I want it or not. I am looking at linux support for coolpix 4500, and it seems to exist (haven't had a chance to test yet, its not mine). Nikon seems to support both mass storage and ptp on their cameras. They do on some of their cameras, at least, according to the website you mention below (interesting site, btw...). Played with it a bit yesterday. It apparently supports both (method needs to be chosen in the menu). For some more information have a look http://www.teaser.fr/~hfiguiere/linux/digicam.html Found also this one lately which gives access to all kinds of raw formats including a gimp plugin: http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/ Canon may be a bit more troublesome, then nikon. You should look for a camera with both usb-storage support (easiest way to download pictures) and ptp support which will give you access to some more advanced camera features. I am not sure if it will allow you to access all the features of the camera from linux (some of the high end cameras are customizable and may require dedicated software). *That* is the thing I'm concerned about, when thinking about going to direct Linux support, vs. using Linux with VMware to get at the Gatesware to get at the Nikonware. But I haven't dug into the camera features enough to know what features are available that might be impacted, yet... Depending on what they have done, it looks like gphoto and ptp may be your friend. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 09:48:57AM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The real benefit to having the Windoze apps (Nikon or not) to support the camera is in being able to load camera (or film scanner) images directly into something like Photoshop without having to go through any JPEG or other compression, so that you can manipulate raw images. Note, this only matters if you have set the camera to save things as RAW format. If the camera is saving JPEGs, the software can't convert them back into RAW... info has already been lost. Why does RAW matter? It is uncompressed and has more bits than a JPEG (12 bits on my D1x) so you have more range when doing exposure adjustments and whatnot. Some cameras actually compress the raw data BTW. I think Nikon does that since nef (raw) output takes less space then tiff output. The advantage of raw is that you get _all_ the data and not processed data, so you get all the information. You can also reprocess it if a better algorithm comes out later. There's a program called dcraw which will convert many forms of camera raw files into standard formats for editing. But it's not quite as good as the Nikon Capture software, because Capture makes it very easy to do common things like fix exposure and has cool toys like DEE which is basically a magic exposure fixer. Nothing you can't do without capture, but you have to work harder to get there. There is also a plugin that allows using draw to open the raw files directly in the gimp. That should rival the Nikon capture software. -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
Micha Feigin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Some cameras actually compress the raw data BTW. I think Nikon does that since nef (raw) output takes less space then tiff output. On some Nikon cameras they are compressed using a visually lossless algorithm. Some recent posts on the D1scussion group indicate that it reduces the effective bit depth from 12 bits to 9. Ick. My camera has a toggle to select compressed or uncompressed, but I don't believe the lower-end ones do. But even the uncompressed ones can be smaller than TIFFs, since they only log 12 bits per pixel, where the TIFFs are 8 bits per color per pixel. So uncompressed should be about half the size. (This is because each pixel is only R, G, or B straight from the CCD.) There is also a plugin that allows using draw to open the raw files directly in the gimp. That should rival the Nikon capture software. In terms of quality (assuming a 16bit/color gimp), yes. In terms of ease, no, since Nikon Capture has a lot of prepackaged actions which do exactly what a photographer wants to do, and the gimp doesn't. Of course, they could be added... 8^) -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. Idiolocation: You are here- on any map. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 05:17:54PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: Micha Feigin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Some cameras actually compress the raw data BTW. I think Nikon does that since nef (raw) output takes less space then tiff output. On some Nikon cameras they are compressed using a visually lossless algorithm. Some recent posts on the D1scussion group indicate that it reduces the effective bit depth from 12 bits to 9. Ick. My camera has a toggle to select compressed or uncompressed, but I don't believe the lower-end ones do. But even the uncompressed ones can be smaller than TIFFs, since they only log 12 bits per pixel, where the TIFFs are 8 bits per color per pixel. So uncompressed should be about half the size. (This is because each pixel is only R, G, or B straight from the CCD.) Looks like you missed it a bit here. What you would call a pixel in the raw file is not the same as a pixel in the tiff file. In the tiff file you have three colors per pixel (R,G,B) and 8 bits per color, that would make it 24 bits per pixel. In the raw file you have 4 ccd cells per image pixel (R, G, G, B) corresponding to the Bayer mask, at 12 bits per cell, which should make that 48 bits per pixel, which in turn should make the file approximately twice the size of the standard tiff (I think NEF files are actually tiff files with some undocumented extensions IIRC). The compression option probably lets you chose between lossy and lossless compression and not uncompressed versus compressed, but its just a wild guess. I will have to read the code or the specs for dcraw.c (hope I got the name right) to give you an exact answer to this. There is also a plugin that allows using draw to open the raw files directly in the gimp. That should rival the Nikon capture software. In terms of quality (assuming a 16bit/color gimp), yes. In terms of ease, no, since Nikon Capture has a lot of prepackaged actions which do exactly what a photographer wants to do, and the gimp doesn't. Of course, they could be added... 8^) IIRC most relevant filters are already there or available, and I don't like the magic filters of 'simple user' software anyway since it usually doesn't do what I need (don't know Nikon Capture so I may be way off the mark here). -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. Idiolocation: You are here- on any map. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
Micha Feigin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looks like you missed it a bit here. What you would call a pixel in the raw file is not the same as a pixel in the tiff file. Actually, it's close enough. In the raw file you have 4 ccd cells per image pixel (R, G, G, B) That's not correct for any Bayer camera I know of. Specifically not correct for the Nikon DSLRs or consumer cameras. There's one CCD cell per image pixel, with the exception of the D1x, which has a strange layout[1]. corresponding to the Bayer mask, at 12 bits per cell, which should make that 48 bits per pixel, which in turn should make the file approximately twice the size of the standard tiff (I think NEF files are actually tiff files with some undocumented extensions IIRC). Correct, NEF files use a TIFF container. As for sizes, TIFFs from the camera really are about twice the size of uncompressed RAW.[2] If you really want, I can provide pics taken in each mode. The compression option probably lets you chose between lossy and lossless compression and not uncompressed versus compressed, but its just a wild guess. The D1x allows a choice between uncompressed and compressed[2]. The D70 does not.[3] Neither allow you to choose lossiness. The above link explains the loss of detail. (You're guessing. I've got the camera.) I will have to read the code or the specs for dcraw.c (hope I got the name right) to give you an exact answer to this. See [3], where they did. There's also more info in the D1scussion archive[4] which is unfortunately available only to members. IIRC most relevant filters are already there or available, and I don't like the magic filters of 'simple user' software anyway since it usually doesn't do what I need (don't know Nikon Capture so I may be way off the mark here). Yep, you're way off. For example, NC offers: * Autoremoval of sensor dust from images, given a reference. * Fisheye-to-rectilinear with some lenses. * Vignette control, to increase or decrease vignetting. It knows the properties of the lens you used. Very cool. * Lets you adjust exposure by standard EV values * Easy highlight/shadow adjustments. Really, really easy.[5] Now, you _can_ do all of this with the gimp. But it's a more manual work. NC lets you work on thumbnails, set image settings, then batch convert. And you're limited in your plugin choice because you have to use filmgimp to get 16-bit color, to take full advantage of the extra range in the files. Or, use the RawPhoto plugin and fiddle with settings before actually converting it into 8-bit per channel, but then you're severely limited in your available modifications.[6] Footnotes: [1] http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x/ [2] http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x/page15.asp [3] http://www.majid.info/mylos/weblog/2004/05/02-1.html [4] http://www.juergenspecht.com/d1scussion/#13 [5] http://www.lonestardigital.com/digital_dee.htm [6] http://ptj.rozeta.com.pl/Soft/RawPhoto -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 08:53:23PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote: Micha Feigin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Looks like you missed it a bit here. What you would call a pixel in the raw file is not the same as a pixel in the tiff file. Actually, it's close enough. In the raw file you have 4 ccd cells per image pixel (R, G, G, B) That's not correct for any Bayer camera I know of. Specifically not correct for the Nikon DSLRs or consumer cameras. There's one CCD cell per image pixel, with the exception of the D1x, which has a strange layout[1]. There is no way that this can be true physically. CCD (and CMOS) cells are sensitive to intensity only, they have no color sensitivity. They have a color (usually Beyer) mask put over them so that each cell receives only red, green or blue light. Each four cells are divided into one red, one blue and two green (this is since the human eye has better separation for green and square grids are easier to design). The only thing strange about the D1x is the double resolution on the horizontal axis which is then interpolated into higher resolution on the vertical axis. Other then that the color filter is standard. This is different from how modern film works where the colors are layered. As a side note, what could be interesting is if you could disable or remove the color mask to get 4 times the resolution on B/W pictures. corresponding to the Bayer mask, at 12 bits per cell, which should make that 48 bits per pixel, which in turn should make the file approximately twice the size of the standard tiff (I think NEF files are actually tiff files with some undocumented extensions IIRC). Correct, NEF files use a TIFF container. As for sizes, TIFFs from the camera really are about twice the size of uncompressed RAW.[2] If you really want, I can provide pics taken in each mode. That could be interesting, but wouldn't tell me anything. I need to look at the code that converts them to see what it does. The compression option probably lets you chose between lossy and lossless compression and not uncompressed versus compressed, but its just a wild guess. The D1x allows a choice between uncompressed and compressed[2]. The D70 does not.[3] Neither allow you to choose lossiness. The above link explains the loss of detail. (You're guessing. I've got the camera.) I just don't see what would explain the sizes, unless the camera is dropping information or storing extra information in the tiff, or just packs it badly in the tiff. I don't have the time to look into it at the moment through. I will have to read the code or the specs for dcraw.c (hope I got the name right) to give you an exact answer to this. See [3], where they did. There's also more info in the D1scussion archive[4] which is unfortunately available only to members. IIRC most relevant filters are already there or available, and I don't like the magic filters of 'simple user' software anyway since it usually doesn't do what I need (don't know Nikon Capture so I may be way off the mark here). Yep, you're way off. For example, NC offers: * Autoremoval of sensor dust from images, given a reference. * Fisheye-to-rectilinear with some lenses. * Vignette control, to increase or decrease vignetting. It knows the properties of the lens you used. Very cool. * Lets you adjust exposure by standard EV values * Easy highlight/shadow adjustments. Really, really easy.[5] Sounds interesting. Now, you _can_ do all of this with the gimp. But it's a more manual work. NC lets you work on thumbnails, set image settings, then batch convert. And you're limited in your plugin choice because you have to use filmgimp to get 16-bit color, to take full advantage of the extra range in the files. Or, use the RawPhoto plugin and fiddle with settings before actually converting it into 8-bit per channel, but then you're severely limited in your available modifications.[6] Footnotes: [1] http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x/ [2] http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x/page15.asp [3] http://www.majid.info/mylos/weblog/2004/05/02-1.html [4] http://www.juergenspecht.com/d1scussion/#13 [5] http://www.lonestardigital.com/digital_dee.htm [6] http://ptj.rozeta.com.pl/Soft/RawPhoto -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - I am the rocks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
(P.S.: If anyone knows anything about Linux support for Nikon, please point me at it; I'll probably need it eventually...) I am using Nikon 4300 with linux and I am able to access it as mass storage without any problem. I just have to mount the camera as usb mass storage and copy the image files to my hdd. If any body is interested in having more info, kindly let me know. Doesn't this model and many others by Nikon suffer from low light focusing problems? They lack a low-light focusing lamp, Canan doesn't. That is a problem which is very annoying in low light. JSS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
I suppose this has wandered far enough OT from Linux that I can weigh in on it... After using Nikon's website/email support, I will not buy anything else. I bought a dead (as it turned out) Nikon film scanner at a swap meet a couple of years back, plugged it into Windoze, and started in on it. I found every piece of documentation that was supposed to come with the unit on-line. Nikon's support team helped me troubleshoot it, and when their front-line support group couldn't figure it out they quickly transferred me to their specialists who diagnosed a blown SCSI terminator fuse and assisted me in disassembling and repairing the unit. They answered my emails within 2 hours *even on weekends*. They were so efficient that I *never had to make a phone call*. I ended up paying $75.00 for a working $1200 film scanner. After getting that kind of support from Nikon on one of their products that wasn't on warranty and wasn't even bought from one of their dealers, I didn't even bother looking at other cameras when I went to buy a digital camera, because I *know* I'm going to get into software and interface trouble with it just like I do with everything else, and at least with Nikon I know I won't end up having to deal with a third-world something with a third-grade education who only speaks Fungoolistani and can't wait to get rid of me as soon as my question isn't in its hotline cookbook. When it comes to computerized electronics, I'll even give up some performance or features to get support. (What good are the performance and features if you can't get the @#$%^*! thing working??) (P.S.: If anyone knows anything about Linux support for Nikon, please point me at it; I'll probably need it eventually...) (N.B.: I will, for identically converse reasons relating to support, NEVER buy ANYTHING from Fuji EVER again - not even so much as a roll of film. And I hope somebody from both Nikon and Fuji is reading this.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 11:03:49AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suppose this has wandered far enough OT from Linux that I can weigh in on it... After using Nikon's website/email support, I will not buy anything else. I bought a dead (as it turned out) Nikon film scanner at a swap meet a couple of years back, plugged it into Windoze, and started in on it. I found every piece of documentation that was supposed to come with the unit on-line. Nikon's support team helped me troubleshoot it, and when their front-line support group couldn't figure it out they quickly transferred me to their specialists who diagnosed a blown SCSI terminator fuse and assisted me in disassembling and repairing the unit. They answered my emails within 2 hours *even on weekends*. They were so efficient that I *never had to make a phone call*. I ended up paying $75.00 for a working $1200 film scanner. After getting that kind of support from Nikon on one of their products that wasn't on warranty and wasn't even bought from one of their dealers, I didn't even bother looking at other cameras when I went to buy a digital camera, because I *know* I'm going to get into software and interface trouble with it just like I do with everything else, and at least with Nikon I know I won't end up having to deal with a third-world something with a third-grade education who only speaks Fungoolistani and can't wait to get rid of me as soon as my question isn't in its hotline cookbook. When it comes to computerized electronics, I'll even give up some performance or features to get support. (What good are the performance and features if you can't get the @#$%^*! thing working??) (P.S.: If anyone knows anything about Linux support for Nikon, please point me at it; I'll probably need it eventually...) (N.B.: I will, for identically converse reasons relating to support, NEVER buy ANYTHING from Fuji EVER again - not even so much as a roll of film. And I hope somebody from both Nikon and Fuji is reading this.) In that case I would also suggest you avoid anything Sony. I've never seen worse customer support (and that even for very high end equipment company customers, not just the small end user), and when they do bother making a proper piece of hardware they seriously cripple it with their copyright paranoia (see NetMD for example). As for nikon, I am using a film camera but very happy with it. High quality hardware and glass. For digital, cannon seem to be a bit ahead now in terms of hardware (cmos vs. ccd). I am looking at linux support for coolpix 4500, and it seems to exist (haven't had a chance to test yet, its not mine). Nikon seems to support both mass storage and ptp on their cameras. For some more information have a look http://www.teaser.fr/~hfiguiere/linux/digicam.html Canon may be a bit more troublesome, then nikon. You should look for a camera with both usb-storage support (easiest way to download pictures) and ptp support which will give you access to some more advanced camera features. I am not sure if it will allow you to access all the features of the camera from linux (some of the high end cameras are customizable and may require dedicated software). Also look at the gphoto site to see what they support to be sure www.gphoto.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
Apparently, _Micha Feigin_, on 07/18/04 15:26,typed: On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 11:03:49AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (P.S.: If anyone knows anything about Linux support for Nikon, please point me at it; I'll probably need it eventually...) I am interested in that too. I can access Canon G5 with gphoto2 but I mainly use a card reader to copy pictures. I am looking more towards the programs with which I can talk with the camera and customize it. Canonn give accompanying S/W for that but only for Windows :( (N.B.: I will, for identically converse reasons relating to support, NEVER buy ANYTHING from Fuji EVER again - not even so much as a roll of film. And I hope somebody from both Nikon and Fuji is reading this.) Their films are not that bad, e.g. Superia 200. I am looking at linux support for coolpix 4500, and it seems to exist Doesn't this model and many others by Nikon suffer from low light focusing problems? They lack a low-light focusing lamp, Canan doesn't. features. I am not sure if it will allow you to access all the features of the camera from linux (some of the high end cameras are customizable and may require dedicated software). Ah, if it were possible with Canon G5 in Linux, it would s great. -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: recommendation for digital camera -= Shameless Nikon plug
On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 04:07:50PM -0400, H. S. wrote: Apparently, _Micha Feigin_, on 07/18/04 15:26,typed: On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 11:03:49AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (P.S.: If anyone knows anything about Linux support for Nikon, please point me at it; I'll probably need it eventually...) I am interested in that too. I can access Canon G5 with gphoto2 but I mainly use a card reader to copy pictures. I am looking more towards the programs with which I can talk with the camera and customize it. Canonn give accompanying S/W for that but only for Windows :( You could try http://jalkapallo.org/superkolik/canon.html and maybe also have a look at http://ptp.sourceforge.net/ (N.B.: I will, for identically converse reasons relating to support, NEVER buy ANYTHING from Fuji EVER again - not even so much as a roll of film. And I hope somebody from both Nikon and Fuji is reading this.) Their films are not that bad, e.g. Superia 200. I prefer the 100 iso, and Reala, although its way over priced where I leave. I usually prefer slides though and for I like the colors for Kodak better. I am looking at linux support for coolpix 4500, and it seems to exist Doesn't this model and many others by Nikon suffer from low light focusing problems? They lack a low-light focusing lamp, Canan doesn't. The image processing lab ran by my uni supervisor bought it some time ago (before I started working with them) and they are no thinking of moving to linux so that we can setup a cluster, so the only thing I need to show is that it works under linux (and find a cluster that can migrate matlab ;-) features. I am not sure if it will allow you to access all the features of the camera from linux (some of the high end cameras are customizable and may require dedicated software). Ah, if it were possible with Canon G5 in Linux, it would s great. Seems like cannon don't really like linux, but take a look at the above links. -HS -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
