Re: off topic: uptime question

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

> This function is made for the formatting of *dates*, not *time intervals.
>
> That would mean that you might get even funnier results if your uptime
> is more than (around) 30-31 days.

I did understand. For now my chromebook uptime is over 30 days, thanks!

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: off topic: uptime question

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

In Article <17430759904711630...@scdbackup.webframe.org>,
 "Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> [...]
> (You should better compute the time interval days from the seconds
>  difference. %d will probably rollover at 31.)

Thank you for good point, indeed;;;

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
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Re: off topic: uptime question

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Byung-Hee wrote:
> uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%d days %H:%M")
> Ruby: 28 days 09:23 (Tue Sep 26 15:19:58 +0900 2017)
> Bash: 00:43:33 up 27 days,  9:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.21

Google sent me to
  https://apidock.com/ruby/DateTime/strftime

My guess is that ruby's "%d - Day of the month" begins counting at 1
whereas bash begins at 0 days.

(You should better compute the time interval days from the seconds
 difference. %d will probably rollover at 31.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: off topic: uptime question

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:50:03AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙) wrote:
> #+BEGIN_SRC ruby
> require "date"
> 
> uptime_data = IO.read('/proc/uptime').split[0].to_i
> sboot = Time.now - uptime_data
> 
> if uptime_data >= 86400
>   uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%d days %H:%M")
> else
>   uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%H:%M")
> end
> 
> puts uptime.to_s + " (" + sboot.to_s + ")"
> #+END_SRC
> 
> Then i do ruby cmd and shell cmd at Ubuntu (chromebook).
> Ruby: 28 days 09:23 (Tue Sep 26 15:19:58 +0900 2017)
> Bash: 00:43:33 up 27 days,  9:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.21
> 
> Why the result is different? Ruby result is more 1 day than shell result.
> Guide me please... thanks in advance^^^
> 
> Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

This is more of a Ruby question. *If* (a big if, I don't know Ruby that well)
strftime is similar to the Unix library function strftime, the "%d" placeholder
you use there stands for the "day of the month", which counts from one, not from
zero. This function is made for the formatting of *dates*, not *time intervals.

That would mean that you might get even funnier results if your uptime
is more than (around) 30-31 days.

If that is the case I fear you'll have to find other conversion functions
or write up something yourself.

HTH
- -- tomás
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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TX0An2Ks/XijmgPUqG5cNqrkIssW9Sjm
=PFky
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

off topic: uptime question

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

#+BEGIN_SRC ruby
require "date"

uptime_data = IO.read('/proc/uptime').split[0].to_i
sboot = Time.now - uptime_data

if uptime_data >= 86400
uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%d days %H:%M")
else
uptime = Time.at(uptime_data).utc.strftime("%H:%M")
end

puts uptime.to_s + " (" + sboot.to_s + ")"
#+END_SRC

Then i do ruby cmd and shell cmd at Ubuntu (chromebook).
Ruby: 28 days 09:23 (Tue Sep 26 15:19:58 +0900 2017)
Bash: 00:43:33 up 27 days,  9:23,  0 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.21

Why the result is different? Ruby result is more 1 day than shell result.
Guide me please... thanks in advance^^^

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[francis picabia]

Having a long uptime is fine if you run a system not on the Internet.

If you are on the Internet, then a long uptime is like being proud of not
having read
a newspaper for that many days.

Uptime used to be significant over a decade ago, when some systems were
recommended to reboot periodically.  Windows NT 4 had a bug where it would
crash after 49.7 days uptime.  It was a common practise to reboot it once
a month, and people lived with that until MS eventually noticed their uptime
counter problem and patched it.

Today, there are no OSs with a problem like it.  Maybe memory leaks
in winbind or something, but the OS itself these days is robust.

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Brad Alexander]

I have a box at work that has an uptime of:

 12:32:00 up 1971 days, 18:32,  1 user,  load average: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00



On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:10 PM, David Parker  wrote:

> I have a box running Etch that hasn't been rebooted in 1,589 days:
>
> irp:~# uptime
>  12:09:06 up 1589 days, 18:23,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.03
> irp:~#
>
> I swear this is real.  :-)
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>
>> On 2013-04-20 19:24:00 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
>> > Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>> > > That's theory. In practice, old machines get no longer supported...
>> > > I submitted a bug report (and a patch), but AFAIK the bug has never
>> > > been fixed. I upgraded everything except the kernel, without being
>> > > sure I could boot it again (udev incompatibilities...). That's why
>> > > the machine was no longer rebooted.
>> >
>> > And if you get into a situation where the machine reboots whether you
>> > desire it or not?  Power, cosmic ray hit, dead cooling fan, other?
>>
>> It was a laptop, so that power wasn't a problem. A hardware failure
>> wuld have meant that the machine would be probably dead anyway (after
>> the last boot the laptop was already more than 8 year old). This is
>> actually what happened a few months ago: strange noises from the disk
>> and I/O errors...
>>
>> > It happens. Even with UPS mains and redundant power supplies.
>> > Hardware doesn't last forever. Will it boot? If so then great. If
>> > not then you have a nasty problem to sort out and the machine is
>> > down until you do. I would rather know about it on my schedule
>> > rather than its schedule.
>>
>> Even if there were a software problem, I wouldn't have wasting my
>> time to try to fix it for a machine that was almost no longer used
>> (mainly just for portability testing), in particular if the machine
>> couldn't boot.
>>
>> --
>> Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: <http://www.vinc17.net/>
>> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
>> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
>>
>>
>> --
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>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
>> listmas...@lists.debian.org
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Parker
> Systems Administrator
> Utica College
> Integrated Information Technology Services
> (315) 792-3229
> Registered Linux User #408177
>

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 12:57:28PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> My laptop is at 112 days. Of course it hasn't actually been "on" all
> of those days.

My cat managed to trigger an emergency read-only remount of all
filesystems via sysrq, so I took this as an opportunity to update
the kernel and switch my init(1) again.


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[David Parker]

I have a box running Etch that hasn't been rebooted in 1,589 days:

irp:~# uptime
 12:09:06 up 1589 days, 18:23,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.03
irp:~#

I swear this is real.  :-)


On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:

> On 2013-04-20 19:24:00 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> > Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > That's theory. In practice, old machines get no longer supported...
> > > I submitted a bug report (and a patch), but AFAIK the bug has never
> > > been fixed. I upgraded everything except the kernel, without being
> > > sure I could boot it again (udev incompatibilities...). That's why
> > > the machine was no longer rebooted.
> >
> > And if you get into a situation where the machine reboots whether you
> > desire it or not?  Power, cosmic ray hit, dead cooling fan, other?
>
> It was a laptop, so that power wasn't a problem. A hardware failure
> wuld have meant that the machine would be probably dead anyway (after
> the last boot the laptop was already more than 8 year old). This is
> actually what happened a few months ago: strange noises from the disk
> and I/O errors...
>
> > It happens. Even with UPS mains and redundant power supplies.
> > Hardware doesn't last forever. Will it boot? If so then great. If
> > not then you have a nasty problem to sort out and the machine is
> > down until you do. I would rather know about it on my schedule
> > rather than its schedule.
>
> Even if there were a software problem, I wouldn't have wasting my
> time to try to fix it for a machine that was almost no longer used
> (mainly just for portability testing), in particular if the machine
> couldn't boot.
>
> --
> Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: <http://www.vinc17.net/>
> 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
> Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)
>
>
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> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmas...@lists.debian.org
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>
>


-- 
Dave Parker
Systems Administrator
Utica College
Integrated Information Technology Services
(315) 792-3229
Registered Linux User #408177

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2013-04-20 19:24:00 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > That's theory. In practice, old machines get no longer supported...
> > I submitted a bug report (and a patch), but AFAIK the bug has never
> > been fixed. I upgraded everything except the kernel, without being
> > sure I could boot it again (udev incompatibilities...). That's why
> > the machine was no longer rebooted.
> 
> And if you get into a situation where the machine reboots whether you
> desire it or not?  Power, cosmic ray hit, dead cooling fan, other?

It was a laptop, so that power wasn't a problem. A hardware failure
wuld have meant that the machine would be probably dead anyway (after
the last boot the laptop was already more than 8 year old). This is
actually what happened a few months ago: strange noises from the disk
and I/O errors...

> It happens. Even with UPS mains and redundant power supplies.
> Hardware doesn't last forever. Will it boot? If so then great. If
> not then you have a nasty problem to sort out and the machine is
> down until you do. I would rather know about it on my schedule
> rather than its schedule.

Even if there were a software problem, I wouldn't have wasting my
time to try to fix it for a machine that was almost no longer used
(mainly just for portability testing), in particular if the machine
couldn't boot.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Bob Proulx]

Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> Bob Proulx wrote:
> > I don't think uptime challenges are useful.  It makes people want to
> > do something that they shouldn't want to do.  When kernel security
> > upgrades come along just install them and reboot.
> 
> That's theory. In practice, old machines get no longer supported...
> I submitted a bug report (and a patch), but AFAIK the bug has never
> been fixed. I upgraded everything except the kernel, without being
> sure I could boot it again (udev incompatibilities...). That's why
> the machine was no longer rebooted.

And if you get into a situation where the machine reboots whether you
desire it or not?  Power, cosmic ray hit, dead cooling fan, other?  It
happens.  Even with UPS mains and redundant power supplies.  Hardware
doesn't last forever.  Will it boot?  If so then great.  If not then
you have a nasty problem to sort out and the machine is down until you
do.  I would rather know about it on my schedule rather than its
schedule.

Whenever I come across a machine that has been running continuously
for a very long time one of my big worries is that someone has
installed something perhaps hackishly and that the boot for it is not
correct.  This could mean that the machine won't boot.  Or it could
mean that the daemon won't be started.  Or other variations.

Therefore one thing that I always try to do before *I* work on a
machine like that is to reboot it first.  Then if there is a problem I
know it is a pre-existing problem and not one that I created by the
new work upon it.  And I schedule it for a time convenient to me when
it isn't going to be a panic.

If you have a machine that will not come up from a clean boot then I
think that is a scary situation to be in.

Bob


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Bob Proulx]

Chris Bannister wrote:
> Over here in New Zealand, power switch up equals power off.

I noticed that behavior when visiting your beautiful country!  But I
figured that since it was on the south side of the planet that the
switches pointed toward the south pole for off and toward the north
pole for on.  Which is exactly the same as it is in the north side of
the planet too.  So it is really just the same if you have the right
frame of reference. :-)

Bob


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > 
> > OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade
> > which is nice for uptime.  
> 
> Let's not get carried away here. I was under the impression that
> openbsd was one of the best things since sliced bread ... then I read
> this:
> http://allthatiswrong.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/the-insecurity-of-openbsd/

This article is wrong in many ways including saying it includes many of
the features of grsecurity. They are actually quite different and
saying OpenBSD implemented them after is simply untrue. You can lookup
the author of grsecurity making this allegation on the OpenBSD lists if
you wish.

Saying systrace is recommended to protect from a succesful attack is
also wrong. You have to such as with MACs know about things like
syscalls and it is actually suggested you don't rely on it at all.

Though systrace usage has been added to OpenSSH when run on OpenBSD
recently. Not as a reliance but as an extra security measure
against DOS attacks and chroot and dropping priviledges is used far
more on OpenBD by default (possibly without users even knowing) than on
Linux such as in the in base Apache, nginx, unbound, nsd, all of which
are audited.

Depending on MACS to protect from a succesful attack is bad security
practice. The fact that admins time is better spent on preventing
successful attacks in the first place and increased complexity of
protections it brings is the reason OpenBSD advocates against MACs.

Opening quote



"OpenBSD was not designed with security in mind and provides no real way
to lock down and limit a system above standard UNIX permissions, which
are insufficient."


It's kernel was and is designed with security in mind (as far as the
generic hardware will allow). Linux is not.

Only standard unix permissions is actually incorrect which he later
leads onto. I shall let you decide what that means about this article.

File immutabilitiy is a useful feature which Linux hasn't got in such a
useful form and at the end of the day everything comes down to the
kernel and it's memory protection. He doesn't seem to understand that
programs can use protected memory and that memory and processes are
better protected due to kernel design and randomness throughout. OpenBSD
has securelevels and with the kernel being far more secure than Linux
they are far more reliable than MACs. Without grsecurity. Linux doesn't
even allow users to close off the gaping hole of rawio (linux) or video
aperture (OpenBSD).

Standard unix permissions are extremely powerful and I challenge you
to come up with a situation where they are not especially when
secondary groups are used. It is certainly clear however that many do
not understand the power of unix permissions, especially Redhat. On top
of this new technologies like PAM do not have the best security track
record. It is worth noting that even if you have the time for SELinux
it has had it's flaws (I actually prefer grsecurities RBAC).

It is clear that the author even does not understand this.



"the user has complete ownership over their files and processes, and
the ability to change permissions at their discretion. This leads to
many security concerns, and is the reason most attacks can be
successful at all"


That is not true but is likely over the files they create which can be
cotrolled under a DAC system just like a MAC which also has to
understand what the user is expected to be doing beforehand.



"the malicious process or user will inherit the access of the browser
or process that was attacked. The prevalence of the DAC architecture
throughout most operating systems is still the primary cause of many
security issues today. With many server processes still running as a
privileged user this is a large concern."


It's actually simpler better and more secure to drop priviledges and
work on design. This can often be done by users and is often added to
ports on OpenBSD. All then benefit and not just RBAC users.



"As an example of what is possible with extended access controls, it a
web server process running as root could be set to only have append
access(as opposed to general write access available in a DAC system) to
specific files in a specific directory, and to only have read access to
specific files in a specific directory. If some files need to execute,
then that file itself (or the interpreter if a script) can be
restricted 

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:22:18PM +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> 
> OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade which is
> nice for uptime.

Let's not get carried away here. I was under the impression that openbsd
was one of the best things since sliced bread ... then I read this:
http://allthatiswrong.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/the-insecurity-of-openbsd/

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Chris Bannister]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 01:00:01AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> >From now on I *will* use male genital analogies, using "phallus",
> "phalli", and "phallic", the academically correct words for describing
> the sociological phenomenon.  Then you can sit there and squirm in your
> chair screaming loudly, as there is nothing you can do about it.  The
> phallic reference is protected under PC doctrine--is actually at the
> core of it--the whole white male dominated society, gender inequality,
> etc.  I'll use your own poison against you.  And when you run to the
> sociology and anthropology chairs, and PC committee chairperson there at
> Newcastle, they'll tell you I'm absolutely correct in my use of the
> terms, and moreover that each time I use them I'm bringing attention to
> gender inequality in the computing field, which is great, etc.

And to lower the standard even further, the females can use their 
anatomically correct words to claim they are being PC. It will be one
#$@!&&ing thing after another! :(

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Chris Bannister]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 09:45:21AM +0200, Helmut Wollmersdorfer wrote:
> 
> In 1992 I worked late after usual office hours on my laptop (an IBM
> 386) connected to the power supply and battery removed (to save
> lifetime of the battery).
> 
> Then the cleaning woman stepped in and asked: "May I vacuum clean
> the room?" I gave OK.
> 
> Then the screen of my laptop suddenly darkened. She pulled out the
> cable of the next power outlet to plug in the vacuum cleaner. But
> she unplugged the cable of my laptop.

Wasn't there a story where every night at exactly the same time, a
computer system would go down for about 15mins. 

It was the same issue that you struck!

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Chris Bannister]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 08:18:15PM +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> > On the humor side though I rememeber a story about a guy who moved his
> > apartment.  His machine was on a UPS.  He determined a way to borrow a
> > second UPS and daisy chain them for more uptime and then drove like a
> > madman halfway to his new place where he had previously scouted and
> > found a public power outlet.  He stopped and charged both UPSes up
> > again. 
> 
> Well I wouldn't go that far but I have taken the insert of a matchbox
> cut a slot in it and stuck it over the power button so that when
> reaching round the back there is no way of holding it down by accident.

Over here in New Zealand, power switch up equals power off.
You're more likely to knock something on than off. And believe it or not
I don't recollect any accident reports where this has been a cause.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 06:24:33PM +0200, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Lars Noodén:
> > 
> > Oracle hasn't been the best steward for the other FOSS projects […]
> 
> You are hereby given the Understatement of the Year Award!

And it's only April!! :-D

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2013-04-18 10:56:53 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> I don't think uptime challenges are useful.  It makes people want to
> do something that they shouldn't want to do.  When kernel security
> upgrades come along just install them and reboot.

That's theory. In practice, old machines get no longer supported...
I submitted a bug report (and a patch), but AFAIK the bug has never
been fixed. I upgraded everything except the kernel, without being
sure I could boot it again (udev incompatibilities...). That's why
the machine was no longer rebooted.

-- 
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 4/19/2013 9:09 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:31:35PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> Second, your methodology doesn't scale.  For large scale operations
>> installing new kernel patches every few weeks simply isn't financially
>> feasible/responsible.  Even a junior admin's salary is better spent on
>> things other than managing mass kernel upgrades.  If one builds
>> minimalist kernels one dramatically decreases frequency of mandatory
>> kernel security patches.  The security related flaws are typically in
>> subsystems that are not part of a minimalist kernel.
> 
> This is not necessarily true for everyone. 

Few things are, computing or otherwise.

> There are a lot of local factors to
> take into account. In a large, heterogenous environment, there's a significant
> investment of time required to properly manage rolling your own kernels across
> different distributions and versions thereof, plus the required time and
> expertise to assess each and every security release regarding a kernel to make
> a proper assessment as to whether you are vulnerable or not, on a system by
> system basis.  

Absolutely true for heterogeneous environments.  But I specifically
stated large scale.  Large scale environments are pretty much always
homogenous--web farms, mail relay and mailbox farms, compute clusters,
etc.  This is the ~1000 nodes up class of environment.  Here you spend
significant time going over patches, but you save more time doing less
frequent roll outs.

> Managing the roll-out of distribution kernel updates, even if
> you might not be relying on the specific feature that is vulnerable, can be a
> more pragmatic choice. It certainly is at my place of work.

And many places.  Far more organizations rely on distribution kernels
than custom, as most organizations are small and rely on vendors, having
minimal or no IT staff of their own.

> There have been interesting examples of vulnerabilities in kernel modules that
> people aren't using but can still be exploited, if the system can be coerced 
> into loading the module. Esoteric network protocols are one interesting 
> example.
> An insufficiently-careful look at a security update may mean such a 
> vulnerability
> is left lurking, because it's in a feature one doesn't need. Even if you don't
> build those modules as part of your minimalist kernel, there are some 
> situations
> where a third party can build a module for your running kernel and the machine
> be coerced into loading it (I think there was that bug regarding where cores 
> go
> during segfaults which was one such vector).
> 
> On that note, one of the best tips I've ever received regarding keeping 
> systems
> secure is to disable module loading at run time, once the system has all the
> necessary modules loaded to provide the service it is supposed do.  As a side
> effect this would prevent you from updating kernel modules whilst keeping the
> host up.
> 
> Of course, you may mean disabling module support when you say minimalist 
> kernel.

Since when are they mutually exclusive?  I start with

# CONFIG_MODULES is not set
# CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD is not set

Then I only build in drivers needed by my machines, and they're pretty
homogenous.  I only have a couple of kernels for the fleet.  I also omit
drivers for hardware that may exist but will never be used such as USB,
parallel, etc.  I only build in the filesystems I use, EXT2 (for tiny
boot partition) and XFS, and only the deadline elevator.  I only include
the processor/memory features I need, same for the block layer, etc.  I
simply strip everything I'm able to confirm is unnecessary for my
workloads.  This is why my kernels are less than 2MB (using gzip), and
tend to need far less patching than distro kernels.

-- 
Stan


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 4/19/2013 8:59 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> I'll accept that you intended to use the phrase in the meaning you suggest,
> here, in the spirit of good faith, but I'm sure you are fully aware that
> the phrase is more widely known and used in a different way which is
> objectionable. It's therefore very reasonable to avoid using it. There
> are no shortage of inclusive ways of expressing your meaning.

When I spend the 2-5? minutes I'm able to dedicate to replying to a
technical email, thinking about the the technical part to hopefully make
sure it's correct, I'm not going to spend more than 20 seconds
brainstorming for the perfect politically correct analogy.  I attempted
to be neither crude nor PC, simply selecting something in common use
*here* and that most people would understand.  I think everyone but you
got that, even the ladies.  At least I'll assume they did as I saw no
negative responses.

> Nonsense. I believe that common sense and mutual respect are all that is
> necessary, including a willingness to recognise when one is incorrect.

You just accused me of having no "common sense" nor "mutual respect",
and not being able to admit I'm incorrect, where I am not.  And before
that you accused me of stating something I did not due to your PC bent
causing misinterpretation.

You may have opened a can of worms here Jonathan.  Since you decided to
make an issue out of a non issue, told me to admit fault when the fault
lie with you, then maybe I'll simply make an example of you.

>From now on I *will* use male genital analogies, using "phallus",
"phalli", and "phallic", the academically correct words for describing
the sociological phenomenon.  Then you can sit there and squirm in your
chair screaming loudly, as there is nothing you can do about it.  The
phallic reference is protected under PC doctrine--is actually at the
core of it--the whole white male dominated society, gender inequality,
etc.  I'll use your own poison against you.  And when you run to the
sociology and anthropology chairs, and PC committee chairperson there at
Newcastle, they'll tell you I'm absolutely correct in my use of the
terms, and moreover that each time I use them I'm bringing attention to
gender inequality in the computing field, which is great, etc.

Now, is this really what you want?  Before you answer, think carefully
about what you stated directly above, what you expect of others:

"willingness to recognise when one is incorrect"

If you can do what you expect from others here, we can kiss and make up
(oops, is that PC?) and put this nonsense behind us.  Otherwise there
may be a whole lot of phalli flopping around in my future posts, fully
protected by political correctness doctrine, academic standards, law in
most countries, more than likely by the vague Debian posting guidelines,
etc.

-- 
Stan


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 4/19/13, Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> On 4/19/13, Jonathan Dowland  wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:31:35PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>>> This isn't a manhood measurement contest.
>>
>> Let's avoid alienating some debian-user readers with such language.
>
> Oh, c'mon! Grow some ovaries already...
>
> :)

Was this comment of mine problematic? Perhaps "non-inclusive" of _ _ _?


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Soare Catalin]

On Apr 19, 2013 8:11 PM, "Hans-J. Ullrich"  wrote:
>
> Whatever I see in all your comments is this:
>
> Most of the people show a big uptime. 100 days, 400 days, 500 days, even
more
> than a 1000 days! So many people do this. It proves, how stable a good
system
> can be and it also shows the great work of the developers.
>
> If I compare it to other commercial systems (aka Windows). you can see the
> high quality, what people can do, if they like and have fun, what they are
> doing.
>
> Money is no garant for quality. It is freedom, it is fun and it is
motivation.
>
> So let's all work together, to keep these things.
>
> Let us say to all developers and their helpers:
>
> Thank you very much for all the work and help we got from you!!!
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans
>
>
>
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>

Windows web servers (IIS) *need* to be rebooted nightly.
Initially I thought that was only true for IIS 5/6. However it turns out
you'll have to go back to the old habits also on the new and improved IIS 7
and 7.5. :-)

Is it bad code of the developers who write the sites? Is it the same old
habits of the developers writing IIS, or the program managers who deliver
IIS? I have no idea. Thing is that on heavily used systems things go bad
and they magically start working again after a reboot.
Worst than this (maybe?) is that I'm starting to get the impression that
clustered hyper-v servers might also need scheduled reboots. :-)

And I have a Raspberry PI with Debian with an uptime of more than 100 days.
True, I'm only using it as an bind+dhcp server but still..

Long live Debian and the philosophy behind it!

--
Sent from my Brick (TM)

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

Whatever I see in all your comments is this: 

Most of the people show a big uptime. 100 days, 400 days, 500 days, even more 
than a 1000 days! So many people do this. It proves, how stable a good system 
can be and it also shows the great work of the developers. 

If I compare it to other commercial systems (aka Windows). you can see the 
high quality, what people can do, if they like and have fun, what they are 
doing.

Money is no garant for quality. It is freedom, it is fun and it is motivation.

So let's all work together, to keep these things.

Let us say to all developers and their helpers: 

Thank you very much for all the work and help we got from you!!!

Best regards

Hans



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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:31:35PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> Second, your methodology doesn't scale.  For large scale operations
> installing new kernel patches every few weeks simply isn't financially
> feasible/responsible.  Even a junior admin's salary is better spent on
> things other than managing mass kernel upgrades.  If one builds
> minimalist kernels one dramatically decreases frequency of mandatory
> kernel security patches.  The security related flaws are typically in
> subsystems that are not part of a minimalist kernel.

This is not necessarily true for everyone. There are a lot of local factors to
take into account. In a large, heterogenous environment, there's a significant
investment of time required to properly manage rolling your own kernels across
different distributions and versions thereof, plus the required time and
expertise to assess each and every security release regarding a kernel to make
a proper assessment as to whether you are vulnerable or not, on a system by
system basis.  Managing the roll-out of distribution kernel updates, even if
you might not be relying on the specific feature that is vulnerable, can be a
more pragmatic choice. It certainly is at my place of work.

There have been interesting examples of vulnerabilities in kernel modules that
people aren't using but can still be exploited, if the system can be coerced 
into loading the module. Esoteric network protocols are one interesting example.
An insufficiently-careful look at a security update may mean such a 
vulnerability
is left lurking, because it's in a feature one doesn't need. Even if you don't
build those modules as part of your minimalist kernel, there are some situations
where a third party can build a module for your running kernel and the machine
be coerced into loading it (I think there was that bug regarding where cores go
during segfaults which was one such vector).

On that note, one of the best tips I've ever received regarding keeping systems
secure is to disable module loading at run time, once the system has all the
necessary modules loaded to provide the service it is supposed do.  As a side
effect this would prevent you from updating kernel modules whilst keeping the
host up.

Of course, you may mean disabling module support when you say minimalist kernel.


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 04:57:50AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> You obviously misread my statement, apparently because your mind is in
> the gutter.  It had nothing to do with male sexual organ size, as you
> have obviously and incorrectly assumed.  If your beef was instead
> strictly with my use of simply a non-gender neutral analogy then you'd
> have kept your mouth shut, as such analogies are everywhere, every day.
>  Thus your position, and your error, are clear.

I'll accept that you intended to use the phrase in the meaning you suggest,
here, in the spirit of good faith, but I'm sure you are fully aware that
the phrase is more widely known and used in a different way which is
objectionable. It's therefore very reasonable to avoid using it. There
are no shortage of inclusive ways of expressing your meaning.
 
> Normally I'd let this slide.  But, Jonathan, you've twice recently put on the
> moderator hat and jumped on something innocuous in my posts, and both times
> you were off base and flat out wrong.

I cannot recall either such times but I don't doubt they occurred, although I
won't take your word for it that I was flat out wrong. Nor will I stop calling
out what I perceive as bad behaviour on this list, for I want the list to be a
useful and inclusive one.

> To enforce PC policy Debian must publish and continually update an official
> list of all disallowed words an phrases of/in all languages supported by
> Debian mailing lists.  You are an educated man, so you know that such lists
> are what *define* political correctness.  So if you're going to do this, it
> must be all or nothing, managed with an iron fist equally against all users,
> and it must be official Debian policy, not simply Jonathon's policy.

Nonsense. I believe that common sense and mutual respect are all that is
necessary, including a willingness to recognise when one is incorrect.


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 4/19/13, Jonathan Dowland  wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:31:35PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> This isn't a manhood measurement contest.
>
> Let's avoid alienating some debian-user readers with such language.

Oh, c'mon! Grow some ovaries already...

:)


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 4/19/2013 1:56 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:31:35PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> This isn't a manhood measurement contest.
> 
> Let's avoid alienating some debian-user readers with such language.

Instead let's get you straightened out.

You obviously misread my statement, apparently because your mind is in
the gutter.  It had nothing to do with male sexual organ size, as you
have obviously and incorrectly assumed.  If your beef was instead
strictly with my use of simply a non-gender neutral analogy then you'd
have kept your mouth shut, as such analogies are everywhere, every day.
 Thus your position, and your error, are clear.

In the US Midwest one "measurement of manhood" is the number of points
on the largest whitetail buck one has killed, another is the size of the
lift kit and tires on one's pickup.  In Hawaii (and maybe Southern
California) the largest wave one has surfed.  In Alaska, distance
traveled solo by dog sled.  Etc, etc.  Every sector of every society has
a "measurement of manhood".  I used a perfectly acceptable analogy *in
common use* everywhere.

Normally I'd let this slide.  But, Jonathan, you've twice recently put
on the moderator hat and jumped on something innocuous in my posts, and
both times you were off base and flat out wrong.  It's a bit irritating
to be "corrected" more than once by someone who doesn't know up from
down and is simply wound up way too tight in the political correctness
straight jacket.

So please, the next time you have the urge to "correct" someone, put a
little more thought into your analysis of the apparent "infraction" so
you don't end up looking like a [f|t]ool.  Use objectivity, not
subjectivity.  You're trying to play PC Policeman using your own
personal view of what today's disallowed word/phrase list is/not, and
that will not work.  To enforce PC policy Debian must publish and
continually update an official list of all disallowed words an phrases
of/in all languages supported by Debian mailing lists.  You are an
educated man, so you know that such lists are what *define* political
correctness.  So if you're going to do this, it must be all or nothing,
managed with an iron fist equally against all users, and it must be
official Debian policy, not simply Jonathon's policy.

-- 
Stan


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Kevin Chadwick]

>  The security related flaws are typically in
> subsystems that are not part of a minimalist kernel.

A reboot is an attackers best friend and potentially an attackers
enemy too.

However whilst your practice is right. I hope you are reviewing all bugs
as the kernel devs simply label them as bugs which should be fixed
occasionally with hints and often only external eyes like debian ones
label them as security bugs some what later too and as I have said if
you really wanted to be thorough you would also need to review the
commits to code areas you deploy as Linus himself has stated they
can't keep up but you may be able to on a minimalist kernel.

Perhaps a minimalist/server kernel project starting base rather
than LTS might be an idea if it doesn't exist already.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Helmut Wollmersdorfer]

Am 18.04.2013 um 20:33 schrieb Bob Proulx:


Kevin Chadwick wrote:

Well I wouldn't go that far but I have taken the insert of a matchbox
cut a slot in it and stuck it over the power button so that when
reaching round the back there is no way of holding it down by  
accident.


Protecting the power switch from accidentally switching off is good
operating practice.  I wouldn't consider that unusual at all.

It reminds me of another humorous story...  Remember that comedy is
someone else's tragedy.


[nice power off story]

Here is my story:

In 1992 I worked late after usual office hours on my laptop (an IBM  
386) connected to the power supply and battery removed (to save  
lifetime of the battery).


Then the cleaning woman stepped in and asked: "May I vacuum clean the  
room?" I gave OK.


Then the screen of my laptop suddenly darkened. She pulled out the  
cable of the next power outlet to plug in the vacuum cleaner. But she  
unplugged the cable of my laptop.


Helmut Wollmersdorfer


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:31:35PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> This isn't a manhood measurement contest.

Let's avoid alienating some debian-user readers with such language.


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 4/18/2013 11:56 AM, Bob Proulx wrote:

> I don't think uptime challenges are useful.  It makes people want to
> do something that they shouldn't want to do.  

Uptime is about continuous availability and reliability of
infrastructure, systems, and software, with least disruption to users,
and minimizing administrator workload.  Hans and I have been speaking
from that perspective.  This isn't a manhood measurement contest.

> When kernel security
> upgrades come along just install them and reboot.  

First, why would one install such patched code if it's not part of the
installed kernel?

Second, your methodology doesn't scale.  For large scale operations
installing new kernel patches every few weeks simply isn't financially
feasible/responsible.  Even a junior admin's salary is better spent on
things other than managing mass kernel upgrades.  If one builds
minimalist kernels one dramatically decreases frequency of mandatory
kernel security patches.  The security related flaws are typically in
subsystems that are not part of a minimalist kernel.

As a parting note I know of Postfix relays that have run continuously
for over 6 years with no updates of any kind.  A kernel with no TCP/UDP
security related code flaws (pretty rare for Linux), Postfix in chroot,
TCP 25 open inbound from public network, and TCP 22 open only on the
management network.  If the hardware and power hold up such a system can
run indefinitely without a security exploit and without kernel patches.

-- 
Stan


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > 
> > If i am not mistaken, The OpenBSD Team recommends a clean installation 
> > every 6
> > month.  
> 
> For users following -stable instead of -current, the support goes back two 
> releases which means about 12 to 18 months, since the releases have been 
> every 6 months:
> 
>   http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Flavors
> 
> So that would tend to limit the uptime.
> 
> Regards,
> /Lars

Yes and No. Supported (help you in case of problems) certainly as the
man power simply isn't there to back port and all the devs run current.
However things such as firewalls is no problem and even advocated and
you can also compile packages very easily (certainly server packages).
The kernel is sound so no reboots.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Bob Proulx]

Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> Well I wouldn't go that far but I have taken the insert of a matchbox
> cut a slot in it and stuck it over the power button so that when
> reaching round the back there is no way of holding it down by accident.

Protecting the power switch from accidentally switching off is good
operating practice.  I wouldn't consider that unusual at all.

It reminds me of another humorous story...  Remember that comedy is
someone else's tragedy.

During a critical turn-on session while working at a large corporate
america company there were three of us working on a new product.  This
was attached to a rack of computers and test equipment.  Schedule was
tight and late and expensive.  It was quite a tense time.  It was long
nights and little sleep for days.

One of the managers came over to check on the progress.  While there
he casually put up a hand and leaned against the rack as one might do
against a wall.  But it wasn't a wall and he pushed against and
tripped the big red emergency power off switch on the rack!  And we
had just gotten everything set up to the point that we were getting
past a critical debug item.  And of course everything needed to be
fsck'd and the case carefully set up again.  It cost us a couple of
hours at least and after several late nights.  Argh!

The next day I arrived to see that one of the techs had cut a piece of
pvc pipe large enough to surround the switch.  The pipe was now fixed
around the power switch and protected it from someone leaning up
against it.  You could still push the button but you had to be
intentional about it.

For years after that managers were barred from the test lab during
product turn-on.

Bob


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> On the humor side though I rememeber a story about a guy who moved his
> apartment.  His machine was on a UPS.  He determined a way to borrow a
> second UPS and daisy chain them for more uptime and then drove like a
> madman halfway to his new place where he had previously scouted and
> found a public power outlet.  He stopped and charged both UPSes up
> again. 

Well I wouldn't go that far but I have taken the insert of a matchbox
cut a slot in it and stuck it over the power button so that when
reaching round the back there is no way of holding it down by accident.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade which is
> > nice for uptime.  
> 
> Two holes in the default install, which is a very different thing to two
> holes in the entire distribution.

It is but you can see the erratas for the whole base system at
openbsd.org/errata.html and they are few. There will of course be many
unfound bugs but anything included in base receives a good audit before
inclusion and some parts a constant one.

The default install obviously includes the kernel so I think two
exploits in over a decade, one of which was in the over engineered
shall we say ipv6 that I have disabled (good practice on OpenBSD too) is
very impressive especially when Linus states that there are so many
updates every day that bugs are certainly getting in every day. Of
course there are benefits to that but it's not security.

If I ever run a Linux server for some certain functionality I will
certainly apply the grsecurity patch. OpenBSD and linux with the grsec
patch have security features that FreeBSD doesn't, even more so on
older hardware.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
___


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Dan Ritter]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:56:53AM -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> I don't think uptime challenges are useful.  It makes people want to
> do something that they shouldn't want to do.  When kernel security
> upgrades come along just install them and reboot.  Human made
> "machines" of all types have been running for a very long time and it
> just isn't productive or useful to try to go for a record.

The central realization is that machines provide services, and
it is the service that needs to be continuously available, not
the machine.

Load balancers, fail-over, and similar schemes are much more
likely to bring long-term success than a carefully tended
kspliced single machine, even though the latter is impressive in
its own right.

-dsr-


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Bob Proulx]

Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> > On 2013-04-17 17:22:32 +1030, John Elliot wrote:
> > > $ uptime  16:51:12 up 1136 days, 17:01,  1 user,  load average: 0.22,
> > > 0.12, 0.08
> > 
> > I got on 2012-11-01:
> > 
> >  10:48:16 up 1150 days,  8:00,  1 user,  load average: 0.83, 0.69, 0.31
> > 
> > But then there was a disk failure and the machine is no longer working.
> 
> Impressive :)
> 
> A machine at work which we forgot about had more than 1200 days. But
> had some hardware failure shortly later as well. I think I have the uptime
> output somewhere.

I no longer have the verbatim uptime output but on a machine that had
been mostly abandoned I find an email from me to the tech group that
it had been up for 1221 days when I started looking at it.  It needed
someone to give it some love and attention.  But It was still doing
BIND9 DNS resolving successfully and I could log in fine.  It was
running Sarge.  I was shocked by how long it had been abandoned.  I
rebooted it and upgraded it to Lenny and then to Squeeze.  The uptime
now is only 30 days since I last rebooted it for the recent new kernel
upgrade.  In that same old email I mentioned a sibling to it that had
been up 524 days.  I also rebooted and upgraded it.  I routinely see
VMs that are running over a year between reboots.  But I see that as
of a sign of abandonment.

I don't think uptime challenges are useful.  It makes people want to
do something that they shouldn't want to do.  When kernel security
upgrades come along just install them and reboot.  Human made
"machines" of all types have been running for a very long time and it
just isn't productive or useful to try to go for a record.

On the humor side though I rememeber a story about a guy who moved his
apartment.  His machine was on a UPS.  He determined a way to borrow a
second UPS and daisy chain them for more uptime and then drove like a
madman halfway to his new place where he had previously scouted and
found a public power outlet.  He stopped and charged both UPSes up
again.  Then drove the rest of the way to his new place.  The UPS
alarm was sounding the entire way.  All of this just so as to preserve
his uptime.

Bob


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 18 April 2013 14:33:51 green wrote:
> Darac Marjal wrote at 2013-04-18 04:05 -0500:
> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:43:27PM +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> > > Security issues, which affect modules, but not the kernel itself, may
> > > not cause the need of a new kernel. When people lik me and others on
> > > this list, are using a very small kernel, with minimalistic modules,
> > > and the security issues affect modules, which are not built nor
> > > installed, then there is no need, to install a new kernel.
> >
> > Out of curiosity, where is the evidence for this FUD that people are
> > coming up with that the kernel core CANNOT have a security issue?
>
> I think that what Hans wrote above is ambiguous, I assume Hans meant
> "[Those] security issues which affect modules…"

It is as you say ambiguous.  I took him to mean "Security issues do not affect 
the kernel (ever), so security updates can never be required for a bare 
kernel.  They are only required if they affect the particular modules which 
are compiled on that kernel."

And I had a job not being ambiguous myself.  I hope that I have succeeded.

I am very ignorant about kernels and was interested to learn that the kernel 
itself has no security problems; especially as I thought that there had been 
an exploit a couple of years ago, which necessitated temporarily shutting the 
site down.

Having just Googled, I find the info on that exploit ambiguous too as to the 
risk to the core of the kernel.  So I am still none the wiser. :-(

Lisi


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 schrieb Vincent Lefevre:
> On 2013-04-17 17:22:32 +1030, John Elliot wrote:
> > $ uptime  16:51:12 up 1136 days, 17:01,  1 user,  load average: 0.22,
> > 0.12, 0.08
> 
> I got on 2012-11-01:
> 
>  10:48:16 up 1150 days,  8:00,  1 user,  load average: 0.83, 0.69, 0.31
> 
> But then there was a disk failure and the machine is no longer working.

Impressive :)

A machine at work which we forgot about had more than 1200 days. But
had some hardware failure shortly later as well. I think I have the uptime
output somewhere.

-- 
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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Stan Hoeppner:
> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44

mondschein:~> uprecords
 #       Uptime | System Boot up
+---
 1   313 days, 00:52:07 | Linux 2.6.32-5-686Wed Nov  3 10:09:32 2010
 2   304 days, 02:44:25 | Linux 2.6.26-2-686Fri Nov  6 10:34:34 2009
 3   131 days, 16:18:28 | Linux 2.6.32-5-686Sat Aug 18 21:12:12 2012
 4   125 days, 22:49:38 | Linux 2.6.32-5-686Mon Sep 12 12:05:28 2011
 5   111 days, 19:45:52 | Linux 2.6.26-1-686Mon Mar  2 14:54:11 2009
 695 days, 20:31:59 | Linux 2.6.32-5-686Wed Mar 28 12:45:40 2012
 780 days, 19:53:49 | Linux 2.6.24-etchnhalf.1  Mon Jul 28 16:29:43 2008
 859 days, 03:17:38 | Linux 2.6.32-5-686Sun Jan 29 08:26:32 2012
 957 days, 14:33:14 | Linux 2.6.32-5-686Mon Sep  6 20:35:51 2010
->  1051 days, 04:27:26 | Linux 3.2.0-4-686-pae Tue Feb 26 10:32:50 2013
+---
1up in 6 days, 10:05:49 | atThu Apr 25 02:06:03 2013
no1 in   261 days, 20:24:42 | atSun Jan  5 11:24:56 2014
up   1694 days, 09:48:3 | since Mon Jul 28 16:29:43 2008
  down30 days, 13:42:01 | since Mon Jul 28 16:29:43 2008
   %up   98.228 | since Mon Jul 28 16:29:43 2008


But anyway, why are you interested in that?

%up is nasty, but this is just my private play box and I converted it to a
completely different LVM and Ext4 filesystem and had several dist-upgrades
in between. But still, I am pretty sure this machine has never been down
for 30 days since 2008.

If 30/1694*24*60 is correct formular, then this would mean in average 25
minutes downtime per day. I would have noticed it.

I removed uptimed from my laptops. The uptimed author does not want to
use fsync() in critical places and it lost uptimes every now when I had a
crash due to experimental kernels and stuff. Maybe on my server it had a
data loss as well.

Largest notebook uptime was about 105 days I think.

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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Jonathan Dowland:
> My laptop is at 112 days. Of course it hasn't actually been "on" all
> of those days.

Had about 200 days on a hibernating workstation at work.

And its nice in Juni or July to type who and see 18 Apr as login time for 
display :0 :)

Ciao,
-- 
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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[green]

Darac Marjal wrote at 2013-04-18 04:05 -0500:
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:43:27PM +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> > Security issues, which affect modules, but not the kernel itself, may not 
> > cause 
> > the need of a new kernel. When people lik me and others on this list, are 
> > using a very small kernel, with minimalistic modules, and the security 
> > issues 
> > affect modules, which are not built nor installed, then there is no need, 
> > to 
> > install a new kernel.
> 
> Out of curiosity, where is the evidence for this FUD that people are
> coming up with that the kernel core CANNOT have a security issue?

I think that what Hans wrote above is ambiguous, I assume Hans meant
"[Those] security issues which affect modules…"


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:22:18PM +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade which is
> nice for uptime.

Two holes in the default install, which is a very different thing to two
holes in the entire distribution.


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>Not really. uptime reports the amount of time elapsed since the
>system was booted, but I've noticed it is not paused for suspend
>and hibernation.

Yes:

$ uprecords
 #   Uptime | System Boot up
+---
->   1   113 days, 22:25:35 | Linux 3.2.0-4-amd64   Tue Dec 25 14:09:42 2012
+---
NewRec   113 days, 22:25:34 | since Tue Dec 25 14:09:42 2012
up   113 days, 22:25:35 | since Tue Dec 25 14:09:42 2012
  down 0 days, 00:00:00 | since Tue Dec 25 14:09:42 2012
   %up  100.000 | since Tue Dec 25 14:09:42 2012

I must have rebooted it on Christmas day. It has definely not been switched on 
for
113 days. My SSD reports 949 power on hours (=~ 1 month), and I'm fairly sure I
fitted it before Christmas.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:19:34PM -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Correct. Should that not be corrected? My desktop now says:

Corrected to what? "Uptime" means "time elapsed since the kernel was started"
and suspending or resuming doesn't really change that. It's also a rather old
and useless figure so I don't see the point in trying to make it more accurate.
For VMs, you could wonder whether context switches on a contended core should
be accounted for (and how)

Just checked my VPS:

 13:40:10 up 401 days,  8:20,  9 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.06, 0.08

Although I'm not proud of that, it's high time it was rebooted, most likely.


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2013-04-17 17:22:32 +1030, John Elliot wrote:
> $ uptime  16:51:12 up 1136 days, 17:01,  1 user,  load average: 0.22, 0.12, 
> 0.08

I got on 2012-11-01:

 10:48:16 up 1150 days,  8:00,  1 user,  load average: 0.83, 0.69, 0.31

But then there was a disk failure and the machine is no longer working.

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Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:43:27PM +0200, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> It is interesting. Whenever I someone is telling of big uptime, the arguiment 
> is: 
> 
[cut]
> 
> 2. Security issues
> 
> But a kernel can stay very, verry long time. On machines, where you do not 
> change hard or software  (i.e. new filesystems like btrfs), an old kernel 
> will 
> work perfectly.
> 
> Security issues, which affect modules, but not the kernel itself, may not 
> cause 
> the need of a new kernel. When people lik me and others on this list, are 
> using a very small kernel, with minimalistic modules, and the security issues 
> affect modules, which are not built nor installed, then there is no need, to 
> install a new kernel.

Out of curiosity, where is the evidence for this FUD that people are
coming up with that the kernel core CANNOT have a security issue?
Presumably, the argument is that if I do "make allno" and install that
kernel, then there is NO CONCEIVABLE exploit in that code?

> 
> So it is wrong to conclude and to say: Hey, your uptime is high, this 
> concludes to an unsecure host due to an old kernel. To say so, is a big 
> mistake! 
> 
> Just to clear things. :)
> 
> Anyway, let's have fun at hacking.
> 


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Lars Nooden]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2013, agroconsultor0 wrote:
> On 04/17/2013 01:22 PM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
[snip]
> > OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade which is
> > nice for uptime.
> 
> If i am not mistaken, The OpenBSD Team recommends a clean installation every 6
> month.

For users following -stable instead of -current, the support goes back two 
releases which means about 12 to 18 months, since the releases have been 
every 6 months:

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Flavors

So that would tend to limit the uptime.

Regards,
/Lars


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[agroconsultor0]

On 04/17/2013 01:22 PM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:

Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux

  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44

So you are over a year behind in installing security updates for the
kernel. (I know, if your machine doesn't have untrusted users and is
well removed or disconnected from the internet, then that doesn't really
matter).

This must not be so. Look, In my case I used a self compiled kernel, with very
few modules. And as the only security holes have been in kernel modules, I did
not compile, I needed not to install a new kernel. Those modules were just not
existent. KISS-style. It makes things more secure!

If you use a minimal config then I could believe that but bear in mind
Linus famous words of "a bugs a bug". Having looked for security issues
in a timely manner myself and having heard someone being very vocal
about a security related too like polkit having had atleast one
security bug fixed silently. I would still update. I wondered about
ksplice once but I believe security restrictions, perhaps grsecurity
prevented it from being used which made sense to me.

OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade which is
nice for uptime.



If i am not mistaken, The OpenBSD Team recommends a clean installation 
every 6 month.




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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Adam Russell]

Linux STRUMMER 2.6.26-2-amd64 #1 SMP Wed Sep 21 03:36:44 UTC 2011 x86_64 
GNU/Linux



22:46:24 up 272 days, 14:08,  2 users,  load average: 1.00, 1.10, 1.07


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Celejar]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 04:02:45 -0500
Stan Hoeppner  wrote:

> On 4/17/2013 1:10 AM, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Tixy:
> >> On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 22:59 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> >>> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
> >>>
> >>>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44
> >>
> >> So you are over a year behind in installing security updates for the
> >> kernel. (I know, if your machine doesn't have untrusted users and is
> >> well removed or disconnected from the internet, then that doesn't really
> >> matter).
> > 
> > This must not be so. Look, In my case I used a self compiled kernel, with 
> > very 
> > few modules. And as the only security holes have been in kernel modules, I 
> > did 
> > not compile, I needed not to install a new kernel. Those modules were just 
> > not 
> > existent. KISS-style. It makes things more secure!
> 
> I build all my server kernels from vanilla source.  Not only do I not
> use modules, but I go a step further removing module support from the
> kernel entirely.  I use SLAB instead of SLUB, and the deadline elevator.
>  I build in disk/network/etc drivers along with the firmware blob.  I do
> not use an init ramdisk.  All of my systems have a small boot partition
> holding the kernel image, config, and map.  And I use LILO.  My kernels
> are pretty lightweight, stripped of anything I can identify as unnecessary:
> 
> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 605K Feb 20  2012 System.map-3.2.6
> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  38K Feb 20  2012 config-3.2.6
> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 1.7M Feb 20  2012 vmlinuz-3.2.6
> 
> Normally I build new kernels about every 6 months, but I've been holding
> back for a bit as 3.2.6 has been working very well, and I don't want to
> get my kernel too far ahead of my userspace.  For example, the bleeding
> edge XFS kernel code doesn't particularly like many years old xfsprogs.
>  I'll probably bump up to 3.8.x after Wheezy finally ships.

Since 3.2.6, Greg KH has released at least these updates, all of which
he has accompanied with the unequivocal instructions that "All users of
the 3.2 kernel series should upgrade.":

http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/2/20/410
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/2/29/544
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/3/12/414
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/3/19/450
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/3/23/293
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/4/2/331
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/4/13/271
http://lkml.org/lkml/2012/4/22/123

[At this point, maintenance of the 3.2.x branch was taken over by Ben
Hutchings.]

I can see three possibilities:

A) You have carefully reviewed all the code changes in each update, and
determined that none of them apply to your configuration.

B) You disagree with Greg about the imperative nature of these updates.

C) You concede that you're running known buggy / insecure kernel code,
but you believe that your security and networking model isolates you
from any realistic possibility of exploitation.

I, too, run self-compiled vanilla sources, in a pretty stripped down
configuration, albeit not quite as spare as yours:

$ ls -l /boot | grep vmlinuz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2864400 Apr  8 06:42 vmlinuz-3.2.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2000736 Apr 14 21:22 vmlinuz-3.4.40

I'm running the 3.4.x branch, and following Greg's instructions, I wind
up updating the kernel something like biweekly.

Celejar


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:

On Qua, 17 Abr 2013, Bob Proulx wrote:

I believe linux only accrues uptime
when it is on and running.  Suspended it will pause the uptime.
Resumed it will start ticking again.


Not really. uptime reports the amount of time elapsed since the system 
was booted, but I've noticed it is not paused for suspend and hibernation.





Correct. Should that not be corrected? My desktop now says:

21:08:11 up 7 days, 10:15, 11 users,  load average: 0.13, 0.17, 0.23

but when I look at the uptime graph it actually was running only some 51 
hours and was hibernated 15 times, like so:


http://uppix.net/d/0/b/dd3224cffef7cfcb34491997b6844.jpg

(the red triangles are when the system was booted. color signifies CPU 
temp.)


Hugo


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Brad Alexander]

I agree with Hans. For instance, I had a sid box back in the day which was
my dhcp server (an old laptop). It was behind a firewall, and not
accessible from the internet. (I know, no security is 100%, but i have
defense in depth.) Plus, I too had built a minimal kernel.

In any case, my record is somewhere around 700 days, just short of 2 years.
Then we had a power outage that burned through the UPS and the laptop
battery...



On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:

> It is interesting. Whenever I someone is telling of big uptime, the
> arguiment
> is:
>
> Your server can not be secure! You have an old kernel! You MUST
> install/update
> the newest kernel and of course reboot.
>
> But this is not correct. For which reason a new kernel is necessary?
>
> 1. If there are extrem changes in the environment (unsupported new
> hardware or
> major software changes)
>
> 2. Security issues
>
> But a kernel can stay very, verry long time. On machines, where you do not
> change hard or software  (i.e. new filesystems like btrfs), an old kernel
> will
> work perfectly.
>
> Security issues, which affect modules, but not the kernel itself, may not
> cause
> the need of a new kernel. When people lik me and others on this list, are
> using a very small kernel, with minimalistic modules, and the security
> issues
> affect modules, which are not built nor installed, then there is no need,
> to
> install a new kernel.
>
> So it is wrong to conclude and to say: Hey, your uptime is high, this
> concludes to an unsecure host due to an old kernel. To say so, is a big
> mistake!
>
> Just to clear things. :)
>
> Anyway, let's have fun at hacking.
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
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>

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

It is interesting. Whenever I someone is telling of big uptime, the arguiment 
is: 

Your server can not be secure! You have an old kernel! You MUST install/update 
the newest kernel and of course reboot.

But this is not correct. For which reason a new kernel is necessary? 

1. If there are extrem changes in the environment (unsupported new hardware or 
major software changes)

2. Security issues

But a kernel can stay very, verry long time. On machines, where you do not 
change hard or software  (i.e. new filesystems like btrfs), an old kernel will 
work perfectly.

Security issues, which affect modules, but not the kernel itself, may not cause 
the need of a new kernel. When people lik me and others on this list, are 
using a very small kernel, with minimalistic modules, and the security issues 
affect modules, which are not built nor installed, then there is no need, to 
install a new kernel.

So it is wrong to conclude and to say: Hey, your uptime is high, this 
concludes to an unsecure host due to an old kernel. To say so, is a big 
mistake! 

Just to clear things. :)

Anyway, let's have fun at hacking.

Best regards

Hans

   


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > > Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
> > > 
> > >  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44  
> > 
> > So you are over a year behind in installing security updates for the
> > kernel. (I know, if your machine doesn't have untrusted users and is
> > well removed or disconnected from the internet, then that doesn't really
> > matter).  
> 
> This must not be so. Look, In my case I used a self compiled kernel, with 
> very 
> few modules. And as the only security holes have been in kernel modules, I 
> did 
> not compile, I needed not to install a new kernel. Those modules were just 
> not 
> existent. KISS-style. It makes things more secure!

If you use a minimal config then I could believe that but bear in mind
Linus famous words of "a bugs a bug". Having looked for security issues
in a timely manner myself and having heard someone being very vocal
about a security related too like polkit having had atleast one
security bug fixed silently. I would still update. I wondered about
ksplice once but I believe security restrictions, perhaps grsecurity
prevented it from being used which made sense to me.

OpenBSD has only had something like two holes in over a decade which is
nice for uptime.

-- 
___

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On Qua, 17 Abr 2013, Bob Proulx wrote:

I believe linux only accrues uptime
when it is on and running.  Suspended it will pause the uptime.
Resumed it will start ticking again.


Not really. uptime reports the amount of time elapsed since the system  
was booted, but I've noticed it is not paused for suspend and  
hibernation.



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Americanized.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br



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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Bob Proulx]

Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> My laptop is at 112 days. Of course it hasn't actually been "on" all
> of those days.

If that is the kernel reported uptime then I think it has been on all
of those reported uptime days.  I believe linux only accrues uptime
when it is on and running.  Suspended it will pause the uptime.
Resumed it will start ticking again.  The wallclock time for you would
be much longer.

Bob


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Lars Nooden]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:41:12 +0300 (EEST)
> Lars Noodén  wrote:
> 
> Hello Lars,
> 
> >What's the status of ksplice in Debian?  Oracle hasn't been the best
> 
> TBH, I don't know.  It's in testing at v0.9.9-4.  How that compares with
> upstream, I'm not sure, as the Oracle web site seems reluctant to let me
> find out.
[snip]

>From what I find online, 0.9.9-4 is from 2009.  www.ksplice.com doesn't 
have much about the GPL version any more, if they ever did.  They do have 
some binaries of 1.2.9 (according to the one sample I downloaded) for 
several Ubuntu and Fedora versions.

Regards,
/Lars

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 18:24:33 +0200
Jochen Spieker  wrote:

Hello Jochen,

>Lars Noodén:
>> Oracle hasn't been the best steward for the other FOSS projects […]  
>You are hereby given the Understatement of the Year Award!

:-))

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
I am alone there's nobody there
I Look Alone - Buzzcocks


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:41:12 +0300 (EEST)
Lars Noodén  wrote:

Hello Lars,

>What's the status of ksplice in Debian?  Oracle hasn't been the best

TBH, I don't know.  It's in testing at v0.9.9-4.  How that compares with
upstream, I'm not sure, as the Oracle web site seems reluctant to let me
find out.

I had a passing interest in ksplice a few years ago, but as all my
machines are shut off overnight, it was never really used here.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
What do you call that noise, that you put on?
This Is Pop - XTC


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jochen Spieker]

Lars Noodén:
> 
> Oracle hasn't been the best steward for the other FOSS projects […]

You are hereby given the Understatement of the Year Award!

J.
-- 
I have been manipulated and permanently distorted.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Lars Noodén]

On 4/17/13 3:12 PM, Brad Rogers wrote:
[snip]
> ksplice can be used for security patching the kernel. 
[snip]

What's the status of ksplice in Debian?  Oracle hasn't been the best
steward for the other FOSS projects and it's been a while since ksplice
was in the news.

Regards,
/Lars


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 09:59:45 +
Bonno Bloksma  wrote:

Hello Bonno,

>Now I applaud a long uptime but... After a kernel upgrade or a Debian
>point release one must or should do a reboot or the updates are not
>applied so..

ksplice can be used for security patching the kernel.  This goes some
way in mitigating the hazard of not rebooting.  Of course, at some
point the kernel will quite likely have to be updated.  With careful
consideration, it needn't be detrimental.

-- 
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 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
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(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais - The Clash


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Jonathan Dowland]

My laptop is at 112 days. Of course it hasn't actually been "on" all
of those days.


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RE: what's your Debian uptime?

[Bonno Bloksma]

Hello hans,

> Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Stan Hoeppner:
>> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
>>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44
>
> Great, but beat this! More than 500 days. At about 650 days uptime I rebooted 
> accidentlly. 
> 
> See the message from netrcraft. This was a a mailserver, some years ago, 
> running postfix, debian-i386.
>
Now I applaud a long uptime but... After a kernel upgrade or a Debian point 
release one must or should do a reboot or the updates are not applied so 
Someone running an uptime of 400+ days probably never applied any of the kernel 
or libX patches. If that is wise ?

I do server updates when the Debian patches are released, usually within 2 
days. Using checkrestart form the debian-goodies I test which services I need 
to restart, if any.
After a kernel update I do a reboot of the server, after a point release 
usually too.

I remember from the good old Novell Netware days that we had uptime contests 
too, some well over 2 years, posting "screenshots" to prove it. Untill someone 
found out how to manipulate the timer and posted an uptime longer then the 
existence of Novell netware. ;-)

Bonno Bloksma

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 4/17/2013 1:10 AM, Hans-J. Ullrich wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Tixy:
>> On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 22:59 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>>> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
>>>
>>>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44
>>
>> So you are over a year behind in installing security updates for the
>> kernel. (I know, if your machine doesn't have untrusted users and is
>> well removed or disconnected from the internet, then that doesn't really
>> matter).
> 
> This must not be so. Look, In my case I used a self compiled kernel, with 
> very 
> few modules. And as the only security holes have been in kernel modules, I 
> did 
> not compile, I needed not to install a new kernel. Those modules were just 
> not 
> existent. KISS-style. It makes things more secure!

I build all my server kernels from vanilla source.  Not only do I not
use modules, but I go a step further removing module support from the
kernel entirely.  I use SLAB instead of SLUB, and the deadline elevator.
 I build in disk/network/etc drivers along with the firmware blob.  I do
not use an init ramdisk.  All of my systems have a small boot partition
holding the kernel image, config, and map.  And I use LILO.  My kernels
are pretty lightweight, stripped of anything I can identify as unnecessary:

-rw-r--r--  1 root root 605K Feb 20  2012 System.map-3.2.6
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  38K Feb 20  2012 config-3.2.6
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 1.7M Feb 20  2012 vmlinuz-3.2.6

Normally I build new kernels about every 6 months, but I've been holding
back for a bit as 3.2.6 has been working very well, and I don't want to
get my kernel too far ahead of my userspace.  For example, the bleeding
edge XFS kernel code doesn't particularly like many years old xfsprogs.
 I'll probably bump up to 3.8.x after Wheezy finally ships.

-- 
Stan


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RE: what's your Debian uptime?

[John Elliot]

$ uptime  16:51:12 up 1136 days, 17:01,  1 user,  load average: 0.22, 0.12, 0.08


From: hans.ullr...@loop.de
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: what's your Debian uptime?
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:58:31 +0200

Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Stan Hoeppner:
> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44
 
Great, but beat this! More than 500 days. At about 650 days uptime I rebooted 
accidentlly. 
 
See the message from netrcraft. This was a a mailserver, some years ago, 
running postfix, debian-i386.
 
Best regards
 
 
Hans


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
To: hans.ullr...@loop.de
Subject: Congratulations (Uptimed@popeye)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:44:26 +0200
From: dae...@popeye.niedersachsen.de

Uptimed noticed an uptime event!
 
The uptime of popeye has reached a milestone:
500 days, 00:00:00 (five hundred days)
 
Congratulations!
 
Uptimed author,
Rob Kaper 
-- 
This message was automatically generated by Uptimed.
Uptimed e-mail notifications can be configured from the uptimed.conf file.
For more information visit <http://cx.capsi.com/code-uptimed.html>.
 
  

Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Tixy:
> On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 22:59 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> > Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
> > 
> >  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44
> 
> So you are over a year behind in installing security updates for the
> kernel. (I know, if your machine doesn't have untrusted users and is
> well removed or disconnected from the internet, then that doesn't really
> matter).

This must not be so. Look, In my case I used a self compiled kernel, with very 
few modules. And as the only security holes have been in kernel modules, I did 
not compile, I needed not to install a new kernel. Those modules were just not 
existent. KISS-style. It makes things more secure!

Hans


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Tixy]

On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 22:59 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44

So you are over a year behind in installing security updates for the
kernel. (I know, if your machine doesn't have untrusted users and is
well removed or disconnected from the internet, then that doesn't really
matter).

-- 
Tixy


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Re: what's your Debian uptime?

[Hans-J. Ullrich]

Am Mittwoch, 17. April 2013 schrieb Stan Hoeppner:
> Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
>  22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44

Great, but beat this! More than 500 days. At about 650 days uptime I rebooted 
accidentlly. 

See the message from netrcraft. This was a a mailserver, some years ago, 
running postfix, debian-i386.

Best regards


Hans
--- Begin Message ---
Uptimed noticed an uptime event!

The uptime of popeye has reached a milestone:
500 days, 00:00:00 (five hundred days)

Congratulations!

Uptimed author,
Rob Kaper 
-- 
This message was automatically generated by Uptimed.
Uptimed e-mail notifications can be configured from the uptimed.conf file.
For more information visit <http://cx.capsi.com/code-uptimed.html>.

--- End Message ---

what's your Debian uptime?

[Stan Hoeppner]

Linux greer 3.2.6 #1 SMP Mon Feb 20 17:05:10 CST 2012 i686 GNU/Linux
 22:35:31 up 412 days, 10:05,  1 user,  load average: 1.18, 0.97, 0.44


-- 
Stan


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Re: idle time vs uptime

[Scott Reese]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

lost butler wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> The other day, I had posted message about sar/top misreporting idle
> times. I came across the command procinfo which gives this info.
> 
> The idle time seems wrong. It is almost 4 times the uptime which
> doesn't make sense to me. 
> 
> sysutils: 1.3.8.5.1
> sysstat 5.0.6
> sarge
> 
> I would appreciate some pointers to understand why this is happening
> and what I could do to fix it without rebooting. 
> 
> Thank you,
> with regards
> Karan



Greetings Karan:

Nothing is wrong.  System uptime is measured in seconds since the box
was started.  Processor idle time is measured per processor, so on a
quad CPU box if the box is idle for 100 seconds, there are 400 seconds
of idle processor time.  Everything sounds normal.

- -Scott

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGHiC1S7FYdPX6+iYRAuDnAJ9j7J+hSnPPUs3+d4KdzkOQzpjragCggq0J
EJ5bwQhVp5+cQ7j9wxUFJXQ=
=sEXT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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idle time vs uptime

[lost butler]

Hi Folks,

The other day, I had posted message about sar/top misreporting idle
times. I came across the command procinfo which gives this info.

The idle time seems wrong. It is almost 4 times the uptime which
doesn't make sense to me. 

sysutils: 1.3.8.5.1
sysstat 5.0.6
sarge

I would appreciate some pointers to understand why this is happening
and what I could do to fix it without rebooting. 

Thank you,
with regards
Karan

host:~# procinfo -a
Linux 2.6.18.1.2006102400 (root@) (gcc 3.3.5 ) #1 SMP Tue Oct 24
14:52:49 EDT 2006 4CPU
 
Memory:  TotalUsedFree  Shared Buffers
Mem:   4091088 2913936 1177152   0  157992
Swap:  8417520  112140 8305380
 
Bootup: Wed Nov 15 23:43:35 2006Load average: 0.11 0.11 0.14 1/223
19925
 
user  :  15d 12:07:46.93   2.7%  page in :0
nice  :   0:11:10.10   0.0%  page out:0
system:   6d 10:51:45.50   1.1%  swap in :0
idle  : 497d  2:27:52.95 ---.-%  swap out:    0
uptime: 140d 20:33:14.90 context :4294967295

cat /proc/stat
cpu  133989037 67014 55756980 4641607721 10868016 5501797 21918819 0
cpu0 42809419 16193 16627276 1145587002 1849828 2341999 8195677 0
cpu1 24139941 19293 11245275 1174947130 3544879 655144 2875664 0
cpu2 51271723 14165 18890543 1133541992 1534505 2331335 9843063 0
cpu3 15767953 17362 8993884 1187531596 3938803 173316 1004413 0




 

Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091


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Re: bandwidth and uptime graphs

[Mitch]

On 08/06/06 22:28 PM, Bryan Fr?chette wrote:
> Hi i would like to know if anyone has a php app that can show bandwidth
> and uptime graphs or ping graphs on a website, if anyone has an idea,
> thank you
>

http://cricket.sf.net and http://www.cacti.net/ are two more rrdtool
based packages.

Mitch 


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Re: bandwidth and uptime graphs

[Frank Blendinger]

On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 11:58:48AM +0800, shell wrote:
> Bryan FrŽchette ??:
> >Hi i would like to know if anyone has a php app that can show bandwidth
> >and uptime graphs or ping graphs on a website, if anyone has an idea,
> >thank you
> >
> >Bryan Frechette
> >
> >
> try mrtg or ntop package.

You might also want to take a look at collectd: http://collectd.org/


Frank

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Re: bandwidth and uptime graphs

[Prepaid]

those along with rrdtool and snmp data collection are a good start.the more effort you put into it the better results you'll get out of it!On 8/6/06, 
shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bryan FrŽchette 写道:> Hi i would like to know if anyone has a php app that can show bandwidth> and uptime graphs or ping graphs on a website, if anyone has an idea,> thank you>> Bryan Frechette
>>>try mrtg or ntop package.--与其相濡以沫，不如相忘于江湖--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: bandwidth and uptime graphs

[shell]

Bryan FrŽchette 写道:

Hi i would like to know if anyone has a php app that can show bandwidth
and uptime graphs or ping graphs on a website, if anyone has an idea,
thank you

Bryan Frechette


  

try mrtg or ntop package.

--
与其相濡以沫，不如相忘于江湖


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bandwidth and uptime graphs

[Bryan FrŽchette]

Hi i would like to know if anyone has a php app that can show bandwidth
and uptime graphs or ping graphs on a website, if anyone has an idea,
thank you

Bryan Frechette


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Re: monitoring network uptime

[Ali Jawad]

If you setup an apache server...you might wana check out several php
scripts available online which might provide you with all the info you
requested..check out darkstat and check out...systeminfoand
others...On 6/9/06, Matt Price <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi folks,I have a server running in a University netowrk, and it periodically becomesinaccessible for hours at a time.  I've spoken the the network admins, whoaren't exactly linux- friendly, and they insist the problem must be with my
box (I htink it's something to do with the ethernet jack & the switch it'sconnected to).In order to bolster my case, I would like to set up a little program thatperiodically checks the following:
-state of the eth0 device (up or down)-state of the connection to the local gateway I connect through-state of the connection to a laptop connected via a simple 10/100 hub in myoffice-state of the connection to the outside world (
e.g. can I ping google?)-CPU load-memory loadAnyone have any suggestions how I might do something like this?  In the verybest case, the program would dump the data into a form that could easily be
plotted on a graph, so I'd get a graph of all these variables over time asthe main output.Or ifthere's a tool that does some part of this without me having to do allkinds of programming work, that would be even better -- since I am a LOUSY
programmer.THanks,Matt-- .''`.   Matt Price: :'  :  Debian User`. `'`   & hemi-geek  `-To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to 
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monitoring network uptime

[Matt Price]

Hi folks,

I have a server running in a University netowrk, and it periodically becomes
inaccessible for hours at a time.  I've spoken the the network admins, who
aren't exactly linux- friendly, and they insist the problem must be with my
box (I htink it's something to do with the ethernet jack & the switch it's
connected to).  

In order to bolster my case, I would like to set up a little program that
periodically checks the following:

-state of the eth0 device (up or down)
-state of the connection to the local gateway I connect through
-state of the connection to a laptop connected via a simple 10/100 hub in my
office
-state of the connection to the outside world (e.g. can I ping google?)

-CPU load
-memory load

Anyone have any suggestions how I might do something like this?  In the very
best case, the program would dump the data into a form that could easily be
plotted on a graph, so I'd get a graph of all these variables over time as
the main output.  

Or ifthere's a tool that does some part of this without me having to do all
kinds of programming work, that would be even better -- since I am a LOUSY
programmer.  

THanks,

Matt

--
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: :'  :  Debian User
`. `'`   & hemi-geek
  `- 
-- 


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How come idle time > uptime

[James He]

Hi,

When I ran "w" command, I was so surprised to find that the idle time
is 3 times bigger as the uptime. How come?

$ w
 15:11:10  up 61 days,  1:20,  4 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.01, 0.00
USER TTY  FROM  LOGIN@   IDLE   JCPU   PCPU  WHAT
root tty1 -11Aug05 185days  0.05s  0.05s  -bash


James


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something wrong with 'who' 'w' 'uptime'

[Bert Verslegers (Mobile)]

Hello, i have the following problem:

When i typ 'w' he gives me 2 users logged in.(correct)

When i typ 'who' he gives me all the users from the past 5-6 days.

When i typ 'uptime' he says 16 users logged in.

I saw some stuff about it, googled the whole day, something with
libc5&6 but what can i do about it, because nowhere is a solution
available

What i did already:
cp /dev/null /var/log/wtmp
cp /dev/null /var/run/utmp

i reinstalled 'shellutils'


What can i do to solve the problem?

Hope to get someone can help me, thanx in advance.

With kind regards,

B.


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Somewhat OT - Uptime Girl

[Scarletdown]

Just recently posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy

http://home.student.utwente.nl/r.j.audenaerde/uptimegirl/

A nice little spoof of the ol' tune, Uptown girl.  I think the folks who 
recorded this did a pretty admirable job of it.  :D



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Re: Network/DSL uptime log? solution is icpld

[Jameson C. Burt]

Internet Connection Performance Log Daemon
  icpld
is a nice solution.
I found no Debian package that logs when internet connections
cease working, although this may be included as a minor aspect
of some Debian package having broader purposes.

I found this package at
   http://freshmeat.net/projects/icpld/
Now I can tell when and for how long my ADSL service fails,
so I can better infer internet drop causes (me or Verizon).

Here is an icpld response for one of 8 drops in my ADSL connection last night,
elicited with "icpld -log -m" or from /var/log/icpld.log,
   IPv4: Connection down: Wed Jun  9 22:30:03 2004
   IPv4: connection up:   Wed Jun  9 22:41:09 2004
Down for: 00:11:06
   IPv4 Total: 00:26:30
IPv4 connection dropped 6 times.
This particular drop was down for 11 minutes, 
while my connection has been down 6 times 
for a total of 26 minutes since this daemon started yesterday.

This icpld requires me to choose 2 IP addresses
on the network I want to check -- 
I chose 2 IP addresses of my IP service provider, Verizon.
The default was to attempt an ICMP connection every 8 seconds,
which I changed to 127 seconds in the configuration file 
   /usr/local/etc/icpld.conf
I added my own /etc/init.d/icpld to run icpld as a daemon
with each boot, essentially
   DAEMON=/usr/local/bin/icpld
   if [ -z $(/bin/pidof icpld) ]; then #if icpld not running.
  # "icpld -quit"  would not remove file missing a running icpld process;
  # so if process is not running (as when system crashes),
  # then I remove any icpld.pid.
  /bin/rm -f  ~/.icpld/icpld.pid #created by icpld on each startup.
  echo -n  "Starting Internet Connection Performance Logging Daemon: icpld"
  /sbin/start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --exec $DAEMON  >/dev/null
   fi


In the configuration file, I set
   nobeep=false
   cmd4dn=play /usr/share/games/frozen-bubble/snd/stick.wav
   cmd4up=play /usr/share/games/frozen-bubble/snd/rebound.wav
so I hear a decreasing tone or an increasing tone 
when my ADSL connection goes down or up, respectively.
This helps the mind-meld between my computer and myself.



On Thu, Jun 03, 2004 at 04:26:32PM -0400, Jameson C. Burt wrote:
> I look for a command/daemon that will keep a history of my
> DSL-connection downtime. 
> 
> My Verizon ADSL connection has been down about 60% of the 
> time for 3 weeks, so I want to log the actual downtimes.
> For example, in a file like /var/log/eth1-downtime 
> I would like to see lines like
>June 2  10:14am to  7:33pm
>June 2   8:45pm to 10:04pm
>June 3   2:31am to  7:14am
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jameson C. Burt, NJ9L   Fairfax, Virginia, USA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.coost.com
> (202) 690-0380 (work)



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Network/DSL uptime log?

[Jameson C. Burt]

I look for a command/daemon that will keep a history of my
DSL-connection downtime. 

My Verizon ADSL connection has been down about 60% of the 
time for 3 weeks, so I want to log the actual downtimes.
For example, in a file like /var/log/eth1-downtime 
I would like to see lines like
   June 2  10:14am to  7:33pm
   June 2   8:45pm to 10:04pm
   June 3   2:31am to  7:14am


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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Jacob Anawalt]

Rich Johnson wrote:

On Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 12:24 AM, Jacob Anawalt wrote:


Everytime I think about this thread or any boast about uptime one 
question comes into my mind:

Are these machines on trusted networks with trusted users, or do 
people really get lucky and pick or compile a kernel that doesn't 
have any bugs/exploits found in the next year?


At this point aren't most of the vulnerabilities found in the loadable 
modules and/or services rather than the kernel itself?


Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:46:04 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-358-4] New kernel 
packages fix potential "oops"
Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:58:30 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-358-2] New kernel 
packages fix potential "oops"
Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:00:46 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-358-3] New kernel 
packages fix potential "oops"
Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:57:30 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-358-1] New kernel source 
and i386, alpha kernel images fix multiple vulnerabilities
Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:19:51 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-336-1] New Linux 2.2.20 
packages and i386 kernel images fix several vulnerabilities
Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:44:01 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-332-1] New Linux 2.4.17 
source code and MIPS kernel images fix several vulnerabilities
Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:26:02 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-311-1] New kernel 
packages fix several vulnerabilities
Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:42:32 -0400 [SECURITY] [DSA-312-1] New powerpc kernel 
fixes several vulnerabilities
Thu, 3 Apr 2003 15:22:50 +0200 [SECURITY] [DSA 276-1] New Linux kernel 
packages (s390) fix local root exploit
Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:49:13 +0100 [SECURITY] [DSA 270-1] New Linux kernel 
packages (mips + mipsel) fix local root exploit

http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/debian-security-announce-2003/threads.html

I hadn't used Debian before this spring, and it looks like from the 2002 
and 2001 archives there were practically no issues with the kernel back 
then. It seemed like I would get a fixed kernel from RH every three to 
six months.

A view from the low end of the spectrum is that I've had no kernel 
problems since I switched my now 8 year old PowerMac to linux 3-1/2 
years ago.  For the last 1-1/2 years I've been happy as a clam with 
2.4.18.  With linux the machine's been more reliable than the power grid. 
Very nice.



Alas, it's only been 125 days since the machine was last powered down 
for transport. 


Don't get me wrong, I think the high uptime is an impressive testiment 
of the quality of the kernel and other software running on the system, 
but it also indicates that the kernel is likely missing some security 
update. It's your call if the security fixes an issue that is pertinent 
to your situation or not.

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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Jacob Anawalt]

Tom wrote:

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:11:49PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
 

hi ya

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Vineet Kumar wrote:

   

* Kyle Loree ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030929 08:58]:
 

the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will
do the rollover in another 11 days.
is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?
   

Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.
 

one of my machines has rolled over 2x already ... and still up and running
and survived being moved from one bldg to another bldg in a diff city 
( running off ups in the car w/ 12vdc-110vac invertor too )
	- inverters doesnt always work as advertized though

   

Here's a burning question: does "hibernate" mode in a laptop count?

No world records broken here, but I once kept a W2K laptop going for 
about 6 months with logout, hibernate, and sheer insansity.

 

Everytime I think about this thread or any boast about uptime one 
question comes into my mind:

Are these machines on trusted networks with trusted users, or do people 
really get lucky and pick or compile a kernel that doesn't have any 
bugs/exploits found in the next year?

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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Kyle Loree]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 20:05, Tom wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:11:49PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
> > 
> > hi ya
> > 
> > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Vineet Kumar wrote:
> > 
> > > * Kyle Loree ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030929 08:58]:
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will
> > > > do the rollover in another 11 days.
> > > > is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?
> > > 
> > > Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
> > > not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
> > > 32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.
> > 
> > one of my machines has rolled over 2x already ... and still up and running
> > and survived being moved from one bldg to another bldg in a diff city 
> > ( running off ups in the car w/ 12vdc-110vac invertor too )
> > - inverters doesnt always work as advertized though
that is amazing.  I could do that with a van.
> >
> 
> Here's a burning question: does "hibernate" mode in a laptop count?

I bet not, since it can't do anything useful (or amusing, for that
matter).

I essentially I think hibernate would keep the uptime going, no restart right?
someone try it for a few days, see if the uptime stays.  

these servers are constant.  They have been updated with the latest patches. 

I want to modify the source code of uptime to allow for them to show that they have been running for over 500 days.  My goal is to run them two years..  then i might add more ram or something.   They only have 256.  Then I will probably update to 2.6 kernel if it has migrated into stable by then.

thanks alot everyone, now lets test it on the 2.6 kernel.  See if we can get a machine to roll over. 

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 20:05, Tom wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:11:49PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
> > 
> > hi ya
> > 
> > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Vineet Kumar wrote:
> > 
> > > * Kyle Loree ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030929 08:58]:
> > 
> > > > 
> > > > the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will
> > > > do the rollover in another 11 days.
> > > > is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?
> > > 
> > > Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
> > > not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
> > > 32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.
> > 
> > one of my machines has rolled over 2x already ... and still up and running
> > and survived being moved from one bldg to another bldg in a diff city 
> > ( running off ups in the car w/ 12vdc-110vac invertor too )
> > - inverters doesnt always work as advertized though
> >
> 
> Here's a burning question: does "hibernate" mode in a laptop count?

I bet not, since it can't do anything useful (or amusing, for that
matter).

-- 
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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 19:54, csj wrote:
> At Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:23:28 -0500,
> Ron Johnson wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Not a bug, but the limitation of 32-bit integers.  The kernel
> > "ticker" has a resolution of 1/100th of a second.  Thus, a
> > little math will show you that it takes 497 days, 2 hours, 27
> > minutes and 53 seconds worth of 1/100th of a second ticks to
> > reach 2^32.
> 
> That's a whole lot of math to me (without a calculator ;-).
> 
> [...]

man bc

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Why is cyber-crime not being effectively controlled? What is 
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* Parental apathy & the public education system
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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[csj]

At Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:23:28 -0500,
Ron Johnson wrote:

[...]

> Not a bug, but the limitation of 32-bit integers.  The kernel
> "ticker" has a resolution of 1/100th of a second.  Thus, a
> little math will show you that it takes 497 days, 2 hours, 27
> minutes and 53 seconds worth of 1/100th of a second ticks to
> reach 2^32.

That's a whole lot of math to me (without a calculator ;-).

[...]


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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Tom]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 05:11:49PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
> 
> hi ya
> 
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Vineet Kumar wrote:
> 
> > * Kyle Loree ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030929 08:58]:
> 
> > > 
> > > the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will
> > > do the rollover in another 11 days.
> > > is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?
> > 
> > Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
> > not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
> > 32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.
> 
> one of my machines has rolled over 2x already ... and still up and running
> and survived being moved from one bldg to another bldg in a diff city 
> ( running off ups in the car w/ 12vdc-110vac invertor too )
>   - inverters doesnt always work as advertized though
>

Here's a burning question: does "hibernate" mode in a laptop count?

No world records broken here, but I once kept a W2K laptop going for 
about 6 months with logout, hibernate, and sheer insansity.


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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Alvin Oga]

hi ya

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Vineet Kumar wrote:

> * Kyle Loree ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030929 08:58]:

> > 
> > the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will
> > do the rollover in another 11 days.
> > is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?
> 
> Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
> not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
> 32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.

one of my machines has rolled over 2x already ... and still up and running
and survived being moved from one bldg to another bldg in a diff city 
( running off ups in the car w/ 12vdc-110vac invertor too )
- inverters doesnt always work as advertized though

c ya
alvin
 


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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 14:02, Sebastian Kapfer wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:50:16 +0200, Vineet Kumar wrote:
> 
> > Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
> > not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
> > 32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.
> 
> BTW, wouldn't this wraparound make an excellent opportunity for
> introducing a few security patches to the kernel? ;-)

Please explain.

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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Sebastian Kapfer]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:50:16 +0200, Vineet Kumar wrote:

> Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
> not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
> 32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.

BTW, wouldn't this wraparound make an excellent opportunity for
introducing a few security patches to the kernel? ;-)

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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Vineet Kumar]

* Kyle Loree ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030929 08:58]:
> I have two Debian severs that were installed on kernel 2.2.x and are now
> 2.4.17-686-smp.
> 
> one has seemed to have been restarted.
> 09:41:45 up 2 days,  4:26,
> 
> in reading http://e-zine.nluug.nl/hold.html?cid=158  the uptime returns to
> zero after 497 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes and 53 seconds
> it states that it is only a kernel 2.2.x bug, but according to
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg49872.html
> is it still in the debian kernel.  Has it been, or will it be removed in 2.6 ?
> 
> the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will
> do the rollover in another 11 days.
> is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?

Why?  Your uptime is the amount of time your machine has been running,
not the output of the uptime command.  Just because you overflow a
32-bit number with it, it doesn't mean your machine is any less stable.

You could grab the source for uptime(1) and modify it to reinterpret the
number before printing it, to add 500 days (or any arbitrary amount) to
it.

good times,
Vineet
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Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."  -- Barry Goldwater 


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Re: Debian uptime 497 days

[Ron Johnson]

On Mon, 2003-09-29 at 10:49, Kyle Loree wrote:
> I have two Debian severs that were installed on kernel 2.2.x and are
> now 2.4.17-686-smp.
> 
> one has seemed to have been restarted.
> 09:41:45 up 2 days,  4:26, 
> 
> in reading http://e-zine.nluug.nl/hold.html?cid=158  the uptime
> returns to zero after 497 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes and 53 seconds
> it states that it is only a kernel 2.2.x bug, but according to
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg49872.html
> is it still in the debian kernel.  Has it been, or will it be removed
> in 2.6 ?
> 
> the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that
> it will do the rollover in another 11 days.
> is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?

Not a bug, but the limitation of 32-bit integers.  The kernel
"ticker" has a resolution of 1/100th of a second.  Thus, a little
math will show you that it takes 497 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes and
53 seconds worth of 1/100th of a second ticks to reach 2^32.
After that happens, the counter has no choice but to "roll over"
to zero, like the odometer on a car.

v2.6 should have a 64-bit ticker, which should roll over in, according
to my calcs, in 23,650,000,000 years.

(The VMS "ticker" has a resolution of 100 nanoseconds, so it's
64-bit ticker will roll over in "only" 35,000 years.)

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Debian uptime 497 days

[Kyle Loree]

I have two Debian severs that were installed on kernel 2.2.x and are now 2.4.17-686-smp.

one has seemed to have been restarted.
09:41:45 up 2 days,  4:26, 

in reading http://e-zine.nluug.nl/hold.html?cid=158  the uptime returns to zero after 497 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes and 53 seconds
it states that it is only a kernel 2.2.x bug, but according to http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg49872.html
is it still in the debian kernel.  Has it been, or will it be removed in 2.6 ?

the other system is at 486 days 16 hours 36 minutes, and I expect that it will do the rollover in another 11 days.
is there anything I can do so that the uptime will be retained?

Both systems are running stable and are up to date on patches.
Both are running on ups.

Thanks alot people for whatever assistance you can give.

Kyle Loree
Rendek Communications
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: no days in uptime

[Ron Johnson]

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 04:09, Sebastiaan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Florian Ernst wrote:
> 
> > Hello Sebastiaan!
> >
> > At Wednesday 30 July 2003 08:50 Sebastiaan wrote:
> >
> 
> > > For some reason, after 497 days the uptime doesn't return day
> > > information any more:
> > >
> > > $ uptime
> > >  08:36:00 up 14:48,  2 users,  load average: 0.08, 0.18, 0.16
> > >
> 
> 
> > > I am running kernel 2.4.18 on a PowerMac.
> > >
> > > Any ideas what is going on here?
> >
> > Yep, "jiffies rollover", see
> >
> > http://e-zine.nluug.nl/hold.html?cid=158
> >
> > for further info.
> >
> > HTH,
> > Flo
> >
> I already suspected something like this. Let's hope it's fixed in 2.6.
> Sloppy bug though.

No, I disagree.  When the kernel designers made the jiffie an unsigned
long integer, the gcc compiler did not do 64 bit arithmetic very 
quickly.  And something like that, on a 386 (when this was developed),
needs to be *very* efficient.

Thus, it's a reflection of reality, not a bug.
http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20030223_206.html#1
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Re: no days in uptime

[Sebastiaan]

Hi,

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Florian Ernst wrote:

> Hello Sebastiaan!
>
> At Wednesday 30 July 2003 08:50 Sebastiaan wrote:
>

> > For some reason, after 497 days the uptime doesn't return day
> > information any more:
> >
> > $ uptime
> >  08:36:00 up 14:48,  2 users,  load average: 0.08, 0.18, 0.16
> >


> > I am running kernel 2.4.18 on a PowerMac.
> >
> > Any ideas what is going on here?
>
> Yep, "jiffies rollover", see
>
> http://e-zine.nluug.nl/hold.html?cid=158
>
> for further info.
>
> HTH,
> Flo
>
I already suspected something like this. Let's hope it's fixed in 2.6.
Sloppy bug though.

Thanks!
Sebastiaan


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  16-bit Subsystem. Anyone can see that 16+16=32, so windoze NT is a
  *real* 32-bit system.



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