Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 07:34:51PM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > of sharp turns, short but steep hills and one-lane corduroy bridges. They make bridges out of corduroy? Wow, Canada's even weirder than I'd heard...;) -rob, currently thinking about a long, cold pint of Kilkenny pgprFIsM6qYQP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 10:15:31PM -0500, Dale Hair wrote: > Agreed on the American lager, but are you throwing German lagers in > there also. I really enjoy ales, especially dark ales, I'm in unison > with Craig Dickson's opinions posted on his site. I'm just going on what I've experianced. German lagers aren't exactly common around here. > lager there is. I also like Becks and Bitburger. I like different Becks is up there with weasel piss/Coors on what I'd rather not drink. -- Baloo pgpOeoVZcheWE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
> > There's just not a lot you can do with an American standard or a lager > beer to make it better. Agreed on the American lager, but are you throwing German lagers in there also. I really enjoy ales, especially dark ales, I'm in unison with Craig Dickson's opinions posted on his site. However the lighter and cleaner lagers are better in summertime, especially after 8+ hours in 100+ degree days. Have you tried Warsteiner or Warsteiner Dark, I think their dark is about the best dark lager there is. I also like Becks and Bitburger. I like different beers in different seasons. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 06:48:42AM -0700, Cam Ellison wrote: > Offerings from the large commercial breweries vary (with the exception > of Keith's and Moosehead -- I'm not familiar with Unibroue) from > barely acceptable to plain awful -- one produces Budweiser under > license, which strikes me as really bizarre. My experience with beers > on both sides of the border is that on average the Canadian beers are > better, but that is not saying much. There's just not a lot you can do with an American standard or a lager beer to make it better. Canadians just manage to do a little better than Americans do at both, though. But then again, there's very little that Canada doesn't do better than the US... > From Roberts Creek on B.C.'s incomparable Sunshine Coast Man, Sea to Sky Highway is one hairy road to drive on. Only one I can think of that's stranger is BC-14 from Victoria to Port Renfrew, which goes down to one lane in a dozen spots, and the road grade is a series of sharp turns, short but steep hills and one-lane corduroy bridges. -- Baloo pgp6uqwdZY6OY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
* Craig Dickson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Daniel Toffetti wrote: > > > > > > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and > > > > > > try a decent bitter or ale sometime ... > > > > > > > > If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) > > > > > > No no no no. This guys having you on. Ale and bitter are a practic > > > joke we play on tourists :) kind of an alcoholic pi55. Stick to the > > > Guinness or Canadian beer or anything but, repeat anything but our > > > beer. Only our wine is worse. > > > > > > Harvey > > > > A joke ??? Too sad I missed it... can you explain ? > > Harvey is the guy who's joking. For one thing, Guinness (and all stouts) > is in fact an ale, so to say you should drink Guinness and not ale is > absurd. Second, England makes a number of superb beers, including those > from Fuller's and Samuel Smith (I have yet to have a drink from either > of those breweries that is less than excellent -- in particular, I > recommend Fuller's London Porter and Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale). > Lovely stuff, both of them. > Meanwhile, most Canadian beer is nearly as bad as American > macro-breweries; the only really good Canadian brewery I know of is > Unibroue, which is in Quebec and therefore only nominally Canadian. > Offerings from the large commercial breweries vary (with the exception of Keith's and Moosehead -- I'm not familiar with Unibroue) from barely acceptable to plain awful -- one produces Budweiser under license, which strikes me as really bizarre. My experience with beers on both sides of the border is that on average the Canadian beers are better, but that is not saying much. > The USA, btw, has many excellent breweries, but the really well-known > ones are awful (Coors, Anheuser-Busch, Miller). Some of the best-known > microbreweries aren't bad (Anchor, Sierra Nevada), but the best of all > are generally not at all well-known. In that category, I would like to > mention Stone Brewing (makers of Arrogant Bastard Ale) and Rogue Ales, > both of which are consistently superb. > I agree about Anchor, and there are some other good small-brewery or microbrewery beers out there. I don't, unfortunately, have any experience with Stone Brewing. In Canada, if you want a good local beer, it's microbreweries all the way. Guinness in a can is not quite the real thing, by the way -- it needs to be pumped from a keg. Cheers -- Cam Ellison Ph.D. R.Psych. From Roberts Creek on B.C.'s incomparable Sunshine Coast [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
Javier Bertoli writes: > I'm seriously thinking on brewing my own! I've done that. It isn't hard. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Tue, 21 May 2002, Daniel Toffetti wrote: > > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try > > > a decent bitter or ale sometime ... > > If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) > > I used to buy a can of Guinness from time to time, but life went very > hard here in Argentina and now any imported item is unaffordable :( Hey!!! I though that my wife and me were the only ones suffering because we can't get our nigthly Kilkenny any more :-/ I'm not a great beer drinker, but that was the best beer I've ever enjoyed!!! :-) > (sorry the links are in Spanish, some images are great anyway!) > http://www.cervezaelbolson.com/ > http://www.cervezaartesanal.com/ > http://www.cerveceroscaseros.com.ar/ > http://www.CervezaCasera.com.ar Yep... I'm seriously thinking on brewing my own!! I'll let you know :-) Saludos Javier // --- \\ "All bad precedents begin with justifiable measures." (Julius Caesar) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 09:41:24PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > Tom writes: > > Could we sue Fosters' for defamation? > > You should. It's the only Australian beer most Americans (including me) > have ever tasted, and most assume that it is representative. I assumed that, myself, and I try to assume the best about the Commonwealths (but then again, I'm also one of those Oregonians that thinks we woulda been better off had we told the felons they couldn't vote in the Vote at Champoieg, since that would mean we'd be Canadian instead of American by one vote, instead of American by one vote) -- Baloo pgpx71byWjFsO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 08:39:21AM +1000, John wrote: > Actually, when I was working in California I discovered that the > Foster's there is brewed under license in Canada. I actually had a lot > of fun when Americans would try to sell me Fosters - I'd pull out my ID > and tell them "I'm Mr Foster from Australia and that is NOT my beer". > This would usually result in a night of free drinks for me and my > friends, as locals plyed "The guy who makes Fosters" with the local brews. They'd call you that, even right after you told them you didn't? Damn. And people wonder why I don't have much faith in Americans. -- Baloo pgpAnoEPGUWxj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
Tom writes: > Could we sue Fosters' for defamation? You should. It's the only Australian beer most Americans (including me) have ever tasted, and most assume that it is representative. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
At 2002-05-24T00:46:44Z, Tom Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hmmm. Could we sue Fosters' for defamation? Probably. I visited Perth in '94 (courtesy of the U.S. Navy), and found your beer both your beer and your inhabitants to be perfectly enjoyable. :) -- Kirk Strauser -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On 0, Kirk Strauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 2002-05-23T00:56:50Z, Wienand Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Where do people get the impression that Foster's is an Australian beer > > Probably from the cheesy commercials on American TV: > > Title: "How to speak Australian" > > Pictures of surfers. Underwater shot of a shark. > Voiceover: "Guppy" > > Picture of a can of Foster's. > Voiceover: "Beer" > > Cut to the Foster's logo. > Voiceover: "Foster's. Australian for beer." Hmmm. Could we sue Fosters' for defamation? Tom -- Tom Cook Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. Get my GPG public key: https://pinky.its.adelaide.edu.au/~tkcook/tom.cook-at-adelaide.edu.au pgpGRmLkX7723.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
Ah, well, now you get down to the point of it all...
On 0, Gary Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2002 08:56:05 +0930, Tom Cook wrote:
[snip]
> >be impartial here, we Australians do a damn good beer. It's not
>
> OK. I won't judge by Foster's. Certainly not an exemplar.
No. I have had one can of Fosters, when I was about 12, and even then
I knew there had to be something better...
[snip]
> >makers. After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the
> >French-speakers only not coming last because the Americans do. As a
>
> French and Italian beers certainly set the standard for just not getting
> it.
>
> Then we have the Belgians with Chimay. Decant and serve with pork.
> This is a perfect union of tastes.
Hmmm. I'd rather a good Pinot Noir, something from the Hunter Valley,
perhaps.
> What about the Dutch and their Grolsch? It makes up for that salty
> abomination, Heineken. Try Grolsch with a grilled steak or roast beef.
Sorry, a good Coonawarra Shiraz (or even Clare Valley) takes the cake there.
> With mutton, lamb or goat, let the black malt of Guiness be the perfect
> counterpoint to the sweetness of the meat.
A Clare Valley Cab. Sav. gets this gurnsey.
> Sam Adams Boston Lager is my favorite for day to day sipping.
>
> The Micro-Breweries rate from sublime to gawd-awful and can change
> daily.
Too true.
I suppose you could call me a predjudiced drinker. Beer, so I think,
is not meant to be consumed with food, there are other things for
that. Beer is for when you come in from six hours gardeneing, or
rounding up sheep, or shearing, or ... As the (Australian) beer add
runs, "A hard earned thirst needs a good cold beer." Unfortunately,
the next line ("and the best cold beer is Vic - Vic Bitter") is utter
rubbish, but there you go.
For drinking with food, there is nothing like a big, bold red.
Tom
--
Tom Cook
Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide
"A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five."
- Groucho Marx
Get my GPG public key:
https://pinky.its.adelaide.edu.au/~tkcook/tom.cook-at-adelaide.edu.au
pgpw3D5iomxjC.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
Paul Johnson wrote: On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 10:23:23AM +0930, Tom Cook wrote: Oh, good Lord, no. No no no no no. Fosters is what we _export_. Try to find Coopers' Ales (pale or dark), Carlton United Breweries Crown Lager or Cold Filtered. Don't *ever* drink Australian beer from a can, it's just not worth it. In fact don't drink *any* beer from a can (except possibly Caffrey's Ale). No beverage, be it beer or soda, should ever be consumed from a plastic bottle. What is wrong with this country (.us) that we have to sink to the level of consuming plastic flavored soda? Fortunately, there's a few Mexican markets up the highway from where I live, where you can still get CocaCola in the pint sized glass bottles, made with real sugar instead of that corn syrup BS. It *IS* original formula Coke, sans the cocaine. Damn good stuff, makes the American Coke taste like Diet Pepsi by contrast. And I truly hope someone who works for Coke is reading this (as unlikely as they are to read this faceslap), its insulting that you give your fellow countrymen the worst of the product. Actually, when I was working in California I discovered that the Foster's there is brewed under license in Canada. I actually had a lot of fun when Americans would try to sell me Fosters - I'd pull out my ID and tell them "I'm Mr Foster from Australia and that is NOT my beer". This would usually result in a night of free drinks for me and my friends, as locals plyed "The guy who makes Fosters" with the local brews. John P Foster. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
At 2002-05-23T00:56:50Z, Wienand Ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Where do people get the impression that Foster's is an Australian beer Probably from the cheesy commercials on American TV: Title: "How to speak Australian" Pictures of surfers. Underwater shot of a shark. Voiceover: "Guppy" Picture of a can of Foster's. Voiceover: "Beer" Cut to the Foster's logo. Voiceover: "Foster's. Australian for beer." -- Kirk Strauser -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
begin Paul 'Baloo' Johnson quotation: > Have you had Moosehead? Don't think so. If you say it's worthwhile, I will try it. > > In case anyone is curious, my reviews of beers are available at my web > > site, http://crdic.ath.cx . They are also posted (along with those of > > That's a pretty good site. I like that a bit more than ratebeer. My > guess is an OK beer starts around 50 and a good beer starts around 70 on > your site, if not just a a wee bit slanted towards the darks? Thanks. Well, the site is definitely tilted towards my preferences, which lean towards the dark side of the brewery, but I try not to let a well-made brew get too low a score even if I don't care for it. Generally speaking, at 66-71 you're seeing a mixture of mediocre but tolerable beers (e.g. Portland Haystack Black Porter), good but flawed (IMHO) beers (e.g. Old Rasputin Imperial Stout), and beers that are well-made but just not at all to my taste (e.g. Fuller's ESB). Below that, I think the beers have definite problems, to a greater degree the lower the score (obviously). Things I enjoy without significant reservation start at 73. My favorites start at 87. If these numbers seem like weird boundaries, it's because my site is built by a script that reads all my reviews from ratebeer.com and reformats them. The 0-100 score is derived by scaling ratebeer's 0.5-5.0 scale, hence the odd numbers. Craig pgpFboVHvLeNO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
begin Gary Turner quotation: > German imports to the US are good to very good for the most part. > Haven't found an outstanding brew (yet). Admittedly I'm biased towards dark beers, but I find Ayinger Celebrator and Spaten Optimator to be excellent. Paulaner Salvator is a little sweeter, but still very good. > French and Italian beers certainly set the standard for just not getting > it. > > Then we have the Belgians with Chimay. Decant and serve with pork. > This is a perfect union of tastes. There are a number of superb Belgian Trappist ales. Chimay ranks with the best, certainly, but Orval is also terrific. > What about the Dutch and their Grolsch? It makes up for that salty > abomination, Heineken. Try Grolsch with a grilled steak or roast beef. I have not had Grolsch. Thanks for the recommendation. Heineken is, indeed, awful. Craig pgpBVs87mJh4a.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 10:56:50AM +1000, Wienand Ian wrote: > Where do people get the impression that Foster's is an Australian beer Fosters has been running an ad campaign for the last few years that always starts with "How to speak Australian" and always ends with "Fosters, Australian for Beer." They remind me of the "There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's" ads... > ** > CAUTION: This message may contain confidential information intended > only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the > intended recipient of this message, any use or disclosure of this > message is prohibited. If you received this message in error please > notify Mail Administrators immediately. You must obtain all necessary > intellectual property clearances before doing anything other than > displaying this message on your monitor. There is no intellectual > property licence. Any views expressed in this message are those of > the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of > Woolworths Ltd. > ** Can you beat down the admin? This is unnecissary. -- Baloo pgpv24Nh3z3aO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 10:23:23AM +0930, Tom Cook wrote: > Oh, good Lord, no. No no no no no. Fosters is what we _export_. Try > to find Coopers' Ales (pale or dark), Carlton United Breweries Crown > Lager or Cold Filtered. Don't *ever* drink Australian beer from a > can, it's just not worth it. In fact don't drink *any* beer from a > can (except possibly Caffrey's Ale). No beverage, be it beer or soda, should ever be consumed from a plastic bottle. What is wrong with this country (.us) that we have to sink to the level of consuming plastic flavored soda? Fortunately, there's a few Mexican markets up the highway from where I live, where you can still get CocaCola in the pint sized glass bottles, made with real sugar instead of that corn syrup BS. It *IS* original formula Coke, sans the cocaine. Damn good stuff, makes the American Coke taste like Diet Pepsi by contrast. And I truly hope someone who works for Coke is reading this (as unlikely as they are to read this faceslap), its insulting that you give your fellow countrymen the worst of the product. -- Baloo pgpb7A17lMDEt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Thu, 23 May 2002 08:56:05 +0930, Tom Cook wrote: >On 0, Daniel Toffetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip >Oh boy, here comes a flame war... > > >The Irish, without a shadow of a doubt, make the best beer in the >world. They are just damn good at it. After them, and I am trying to Guiness absolutely sets the standard, especially if you can find it on tap and nitrogen charged. I've been favorably impressed by some other Irish beers (but not recently nor often enough to name names). >be impartial here, we Australians do a damn good beer. It's not OK. I won't judge by Foster's. Certainly not an exemplar. >exotic, it doesn't have bits floating in it, it's just cold, clean, >smooth and refreshing. Next, the Germans are very capable beer German imports to the US are good to very good for the most part. Haven't found an outstanding brew (yet). >makers. After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the >French-speakers only not coming last because the Americans do. As a French and Italian beers certainly set the standard for just not getting it. Then we have the Belgians with Chimay. Decant and serve with pork. This is a perfect union of tastes. What about the Dutch and their Grolsch? It makes up for that salty abomination, Heineken. Try Grolsch with a grilled steak or roast beef. With mutton, lamb or goat, let the black malt of Guiness be the perfect counterpoint to the sweetness of the meat. Sam Adams Boston Lager is my favorite for day to day sipping. The Micro-Breweries rate from sublime to gawd-awful and can change daily. -- gt Everything here could be wrong--Messiah's Handbook--Bach -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 22 May 2002, Craig Dickson wrote: > Meanwhile, most Canadian beer is nearly as bad as American > macro-breweries; the only really good Canadian brewery I know of is > Unibroue, which is in Quebec and therefore only nominally Canadian. Have you had Moosehead? > are generally not at all well-known. In that category, I would like to > mention Stone Brewing (makers of Arrogant Bastard Ale) and Rogue Ales, > both of which are consistently superb. I recommend Widmer Brothers myself. I used to be a major Henry Weinhard's partisan until Miller bought them out, changed the formula to have what tastes like three times the water (an insult the local papers reported the Weinhard family took personally), and closed the Weinhard Brewery in downtown Portland (between them, and all the brewpubs, all of downtown used to reek of warm beer on hot days when the wind blew the brewery exhaust south deeper into downtown, instead of it's usual northwest into the industrial district; oddly it doesn't feel like I'm in Portland when it's hot out and it doesn't reek of beer now) and about half the hops fields north of Salem. On an aside about Miller making things suck, I was also quite fond of Weinhard's root beer, which I'd pick up at school. How Miller could fsck this up is beyond comprehension (though it's still better than most root beers out there, with the exception of maybe Souix City; Henry's is still the only one you can knock back a case of without burning your mouth on phosphorus. > In case anyone is curious, my reviews of beers are available at my web > site, http://crdic.ath.cx . They are also posted (along with those of That's a pretty good site. I like that a bit more than ratebeer. My guess is an OK beer starts around 50 and a good beer starts around 70 on your site, if not just a a wee bit slanted towards the darks? - -- Baloo -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE87IlpNtWkM9Ny9xURAu5sAJ4npfjw1d8Kvr6aivffrqd3NM8WKgCfVZO+ s6KlDUwckh1frhq4PJC1QE4= =Ecqn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
> I'm told by natives that Fosters isn't Australian for "Beer", it's > Australian for "Budwiser". After a hard day in the Texas heat the first budweiser actually tastes good, probably the same goes for Fosters in Australia. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Wed, 22 May 2002 13:25:47 -0700
Craig Dickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> banged a keyboard:
The Wig & Pen in Canberra au brews their own ale, especially 'Creamy Ale'
{:), which is like a white guinness, almost as thick as Guinness and has a
hint of caramel depending on that months brew.
/me wanders off to the pub
cheers Peter vdM
>
> Harvey is the guy who's joking. For one thing, Guinness (and all stouts)
> is in fact an ale, so to say you should drink Guinness and not ale is
> absurd. Second, England makes a number of superb beers, including those
> from Fuller's and Samuel Smith (I have yet to have a drink from either
> of those breweries that is less than excellent -- in particular, I
> recommend Fuller's London Porter and Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale).
--
-gpg fingerprint
C94A F01B DD27 A557 04D1 D7A1 8680 16D9 D4EB 0E59
--
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Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 07:00:34PM -0500, Dale Hair wrote: > Can you give me an example of good Aussie beer that might be available > in the US. The only one I can think of is Fosters, I wasn't overly > impressed with it (as in I will drink one, but I won't buy one). I'm told by natives that Fosters isn't Australian for "Beer", it's Australian for "Budwiser". -- My last cigarette was roughly 30 days, 16 hours, 1 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
>I rank Foster's, the only Australian beer I've tried, just a bit above >Budweiser. Where do people get the impression that Foster's is an Australian beer I'd never even had the misfortune of drinking a Foster's till during the Olympics, when it seems they started to pay some pubs in the city to serve nothing *but* Foster's. Probably to give all the international tourists the impression that we actually drink the stuff. And I've been Australian all my life. -I ** CAUTION: This message may contain confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, any use or disclosure of this message is prohibited. If you received this message in error please notify Mail Administrators immediately. You must obtain all necessary intellectual property clearances before doing anything other than displaying this message on your monitor. There is no intellectual property licence. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Woolworths Ltd. ** -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On 0, Dale Hair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Oh boy, here comes a flame war... > > > > > > The Irish, without a shadow of a doubt, make the best beer in the > > world. They are just damn good at it. After them, and I am trying to > > be impartial here, we Australians do a damn good beer. It's not > > exotic, it doesn't have bits floating in it, it's just cold, clean, > > smooth and refreshing. Next, the Germans are very capable beer > > makers. After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the > > French-speakers only not coming last because the Americans do. As a > > certain comedy team pointed out, it's like making love in a canoe... > > > > Can you give me an example of good Aussie beer that might be available > in the US. The only one I can think of is Fosters, I wasn't overly > impressed with it (as in I will drink one, but I won't buy one). Oh, good Lord, no. No no no no no. Fosters is what we _export_. Try to find Coopers' Ales (pale or dark), Carlton United Breweries Crown Lager or Cold Filtered. Don't *ever* drink Australian beer from a can, it's just not worth it. In fact don't drink *any* beer from a can (except possibly Caffrey's Ale). > You're right about American beers, especially the three largest > brewers. Are we the only ones that produce a light beer? No, I hear Fosters does one. Tom -- Tom Cook Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide Classifications of inanimate objects: Those that don't work, those that break down, and those that get lost. Get my GPG public key: https://pinky.its.adelaide.edu.au/~tkcook/tom.cook-at-adelaide.edu.au pgpA0jT2PUN6Q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
Tom Cook writes: > After them, and I am trying to be impartial here, we Australians do a > damn good beer. I rank Foster's, the only Australian beer I've tried, just a bit above Budweiser. > After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the French-speakers > only not coming last because the Americans do. How many American beers have you tasted? Nothing advertised on television counts. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
begin Tom Cook quotation: > Oh boy, here comes a flame war... No kidding. > > The Irish, without a shadow of a doubt, make the best beer in the > world. They are just damn good at it. After them, and I am trying to > be impartial here, we Australians do a damn good beer. It's not > exotic, it doesn't have bits floating in it, it's just cold, clean, > smooth and refreshing. Next, the Germans are very capable beer > makers. After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the > French-speakers only not coming last because the Americans do. As a > certain comedy team pointed out, it's like making love in a canoe... > Then what you've tasted must be quite limited. There is a lot of good beer in the USA, but it doesn't come from the big-name companies, and you won't see adverts for it on TV. And it is nothing whatsoever like making love in a canoe, which indeed the megabrews (Coors, et al) are. However, I have no idea what good US brews would be available in Australia. It sounds like you're a lager fan, which is the only explanation I can think of for your low opinion of Belgian ales (which I assume is part of what you're dismissing as "the French-speakers"). Well, to each their own on that. There are some lagers I like, particularly the best German doppelbocks (Spaten Optimator, Ayinger Celebrator/Fortunator, Paulaner Salvator). By and large, though, I prefer ales. I like the heavier feel of them, and the lower carbonation level (on average). As for Australia, I know of nothing from that continent that is worth drinking. Then again I've only had Foster's, which is garbage. What Australian brews do you like that I might be able to find in the USA? Craig pgpuKvMZIm2Be.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
> Oh boy, here comes a flame war... > > > The Irish, without a shadow of a doubt, make the best beer in the > world. They are just damn good at it. After them, and I am trying to > be impartial here, we Australians do a damn good beer. It's not > exotic, it doesn't have bits floating in it, it's just cold, clean, > smooth and refreshing. Next, the Germans are very capable beer > makers. After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the > French-speakers only not coming last because the Americans do. As a > certain comedy team pointed out, it's like making love in a canoe... > Can you give me an example of good Aussie beer that might be available in the US. The only one I can think of is Fosters, I wasn't overly impressed with it (as in I will drink one, but I won't buy one). You're right about American beers, especially the three largest brewers. Are we the only ones that produce a light beer? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On 0, Daniel Toffetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > O> > > > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have > > > > > > bigger horses, that's all. > > > > > > Aaarrgghh !!! Hunt the heretic and put him in jail !! :-D > > > > > > > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and > > > > > try a decent bitter or ale sometime ... > > > > > > If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) > > > > No no no no. This guys having you on. Ale and bitter are a practic > > joke we play on tourists :) kind of an alcoholic pi55. Stick to the > > Guinness or Canadian beer or anything but, repeat anything but our > > beer. Only our wine is worse. > > > > Harvey > > A joke ??? Too sad I missed it... can you explain ? Oh boy, here comes a flame war... The Irish, without a shadow of a doubt, make the best beer in the world. They are just damn good at it. After them, and I am trying to be impartial here, we Australians do a damn good beer. It's not exotic, it doesn't have bits floating in it, it's just cold, clean, smooth and refreshing. Next, the Germans are very capable beer makers. After that the whole world really goes to hell, with the French-speakers only not coming last because the Americans do. As a certain comedy team pointed out, it's like making love in a canoe... Tom -- Tom Cook Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide "If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobol Get my GPG public key: https://pinky.its.adelaide.edu.au/~tkcook/tom.cook-at-adelaide.edu.au pgplB9UnDi218.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
Daniel Toffetti wrote: > > > > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and > > > > > try a decent bitter or ale sometime ... > > > > > > If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) > > > > No no no no. This guys having you on. Ale and bitter are a practic > > joke we play on tourists :) kind of an alcoholic pi55. Stick to the > > Guinness or Canadian beer or anything but, repeat anything but our > > beer. Only our wine is worse. > > > > Harvey > > A joke ??? Too sad I missed it... can you explain ? Harvey is the guy who's joking. For one thing, Guinness (and all stouts) is in fact an ale, so to say you should drink Guinness and not ale is absurd. Second, England makes a number of superb beers, including those from Fuller's and Samuel Smith (I have yet to have a drink from either of those breweries that is less than excellent -- in particular, I recommend Fuller's London Porter and Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale). Meanwhile, most Canadian beer is nearly as bad as American macro-breweries; the only really good Canadian brewery I know of is Unibroue, which is in Quebec and therefore only nominally Canadian. The USA, btw, has many excellent breweries, but the really well-known ones are awful (Coors, Anheuser-Busch, Miller). Some of the best-known microbreweries aren't bad (Anchor, Sierra Nevada), but the best of all are generally not at all well-known. In that category, I would like to mention Stone Brewing (makers of Arrogant Bastard Ale) and Rogue Ales, both of which are consistently superb. In case anyone is curious, my reviews of beers are available at my web site, http://crdic.ath.cx . They are also posted (along with those of thousands of other people) at the most excellent RateBeer site, http://www.ratebeer.com , which I recommend to anyone with an interest in good beer. Craig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
O> > > > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have > > > > > bigger horses, that's all. > > > > Aaarrgghh !!! Hunt the heretic and put him in jail !! :-D > > > > > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and > > > > try a decent bitter or ale sometime ... > > > > If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) > > No no no no. This guys having you on. Ale and bitter are a practic > joke we play on tourists :) kind of an alcoholic pi55. Stick to the > Guinness or Canadian beer or anything but, repeat anything but our > beer. Only our wine is worse. > > Harvey A joke ??? Too sad I missed it... can you explain ? -- Daniel Toffetti --- 'There is no spoon...' - The Matrix Running Debian Sid version 3.0 with Linux 2.4.13 i686 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
Colin Watson wrote: > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try a > decent bitter or ale sometime ... There are hundreds of excellent American beers and ales. Don' be distracted by the mediocre rice wines produced by Budweiser and its imitators. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 09:26:31AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: > On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 06:49:06PM -0700, Petro wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:34:20PM -0700, Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote: > > > [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian beer, > > > though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; Henry Weinhards > > > used to be good until they sold out to Miller, they're brewed out of St. > > > Louis and the formula changed: it tastes like Miller Lite now. > > > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have bigger > > horses, that's all. > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try a > decent bitter or ale sometime ... Let me put this in a way you may understand: I don't *like* beer, Sam I Am. Not in a bottle, Not in a can. I don't like it with pizza, I don't like it with spam, And I most certainly will not drink it with green eggs and ham. -- My last cigarette was roughly 29 days, 14 hours, 53 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 06:05:06AM -0700, Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Petro wrote: > > Now that you've probably gotten all huffy, no, I don't mean "you" > > specifically, I mean "you" in the Outlook using, javascript-RTF > > enhanced non-RFC compliant email sending twits out there. If you > > fall in to that category, then... > Whoa! You must have to deal with superlusers more often than I do.[1] I run a few non-computer related mailing lists for some government planning types, and I'm on a few more that seem to attract the computer illiterate. > > Funny, my Mobile Phone came with Eudora installed on it. I'm waiting > > for the USB sync cable so's I can try it out. > Curious how large that phone is...to have a usable screen on it, > especially for a nearly real email client, it would need some serious > screen real estate. It's the kyocera smart phone. It's basically a Palm with phone wrapped around it. > > He's a nice guy. I'd have urinated in them. Though with beer it'd be > > hard to tell the difference. > > Try something other than American beer sometime (again, Oregonian > microbrews don't qualify as American here). Speaking of which, it's > time for a Widmer Bros. Hefeweizen. You're assuming I haven't. > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have bigger > > horses, that's all. > Dude, that's rank. And until you've tried the non-US beer, don't knock > it. 8:o) > [1] Well, anymore. Now my boblike behaviour is limited purely to this > list, ever since [EMAIL PROTECTED] went down, I've been in recovery. I was the Macintosh Hardware and System Specialist for a medium-sized almost-p0rn magazine for 18 months. Of course, that was 3 years ago. I don't do Luser interaction any more. It's too hard on the lusers. -- My last cigarette was roughly 29 days, 10 hours, 18 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 12:45:09PM -0300, Daniel Toffetti wrote: > > > > > [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian > > > > > beer, though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; > > > > > Henry Weinhards used to be good until they sold out to Miller, > > > > > they're brewed out of St. Louis and the formula changed: it > > > > > tastes like Miller Lite now. > > > > > > > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have > > > > bigger horses, that's all. > > Aaarrgghh !!! Hunt the heretic and put him in jail !! :-D > > > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try > > > a decent bitter or ale sometime ... > > If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) No no no no. This guys having you on. Ale and bitter are a practic joke we play on tourists :) kind of an alcoholic pi55. Stick to the Guinness or Canadian beer or anything but, repeat anything but our beer. Only our wine is worse. Harvey > > I used to buy a can of Guinness from time to time, but life went very > hard here in Argentina and now any imported item is unaffordable :( > > > OK, not many reasons to come here, but German beer is still the best. > > Why "not many reasons" !!!??? > And anyway, German beer is enough of a reason ! > > > Is there anything like a debian-beer list? > > No, I believe there is not... yet ! :) Perhaps debian-lifestyle would > be funnier... ??? > > Some 85% of the beer market here is ruled by Quilmes (Argentina) and > Brahma (Brazil), whose beers are perhaps a bit lighter and insipid that > Budweiser. > As a result, since 5 or 6 years ago there are more and more home > brewers every day across the whole country !! > > (sorry the links are in Spanish, some images are great anyway!) > http://www.cervezaelbolson.com/ > http://www.cervezaartesanal.com/ > http://www.cerveceroscaseros.com.ar/ > http://www.CervezaCasera.com.ar > > -- > Daniel Toffetti --- 'There is no spoon...' - The Matrix > Running Debian Sid version 3.0 with Linux 2.4.13 i686 > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: debian-beer (was Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?])
> > > > [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian > > > > beer, though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; > > > > Henry Weinhards used to be good until they sold out to Miller, > > > > they're brewed out of St. Louis and the formula changed: it > > > > tastes like Miller Lite now. > > > > > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have > > > bigger horses, that's all. Aaarrgghh !!! Hunt the heretic and put him in jail !! :-D > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try > > a decent bitter or ale sometime ... If they are close to the Irish Guinness, I'll follow you :) I used to buy a can of Guinness from time to time, but life went very hard here in Argentina and now any imported item is unaffordable :( > OK, not many reasons to come here, but German beer is still the best. Why "not many reasons" !!!??? And anyway, German beer is enough of a reason ! > Is there anything like a debian-beer list? No, I believe there is not... yet ! :) Perhaps debian-lifestyle would be funnier... ??? Some 85% of the beer market here is ruled by Quilmes (Argentina) and Brahma (Brazil), whose beers are perhaps a bit lighter and insipid that Budweiser. As a result, since 5 or 6 years ago there are more and more home brewers every day across the whole country !! (sorry the links are in Spanish, some images are great anyway!) http://www.cervezaelbolson.com/ http://www.cervezaartesanal.com/ http://www.cerveceroscaseros.com.ar/ http://www.CervezaCasera.com.ar -- Daniel Toffetti --- 'There is no spoon...' - The Matrix Running Debian Sid version 3.0 with Linux 2.4.13 i686 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Tuesday 21 May 2002 10:26, Colin Watson wrote: > On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 06:49:06PM -0700, Petro wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:34:20PM -0700, Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote: > > > [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian beer, > > > though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; Henry Weinhards > > > used to be good until they sold out to Miller, they're brewed out of > > > St. Louis and the formula changed: it tastes like Miller Lite now. > > > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have bigger > > horses, that's all. > > No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try a > decent bitter or ale sometime ... OK, not many reasons to come here, but German beer is still the best. Is there anything like a debian-beer list? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 20 May 2002, Petro wrote: > Now that you've probably gotten all huffy, no, I don't mean "you" > specifically, I mean "you" in the Outlook using, javascript-RTF > enhanced non-RFC compliant email sending twits out there. If you > fall in to that category, then... Whoa! You must have to deal with superlusers more often than I do.[1] > Funny, my Mobile Phone came with Eudora installed on it. I'm waiting > for the USB sync cable so's I can try it out. Curious how large that phone is...to have a usable screen on it, especially for a nearly real email client, it would need some serious screen real estate. > He's a nice guy. I'd have urinated in them. Though with beer it'd be > hard to tell the difference. Try something other than American beer sometime (again, Oregonian microbrews don't qualify as American here). Speaking of which, it's time for a Widmer Bros. Hefeweizen. > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have bigger > horses, that's all. Dude, that's rank. And until you've tried the non-US beer, don't knock it. 8:o) [1] Well, anymore. Now my boblike behaviour is limited purely to this list, ever since [EMAIL PROTECTED] went down, I've been in recovery. - -- Baloo -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE86kYENtWkM9Ny9xURAnIrAJ4uUg05rhkCSxBaDfGnwlESxFWrbwCeKX7W fluSwa2ShMjDhXL0Hktyj10= =9NM3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Mon, May 20, 2002 at 06:49:06PM -0700, Petro wrote: > On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:34:20PM -0700, Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote: > > [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian beer, > > though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; Henry Weinhards > > used to be good until they sold out to Miller, they're brewed out of St. > > Louis and the formula changed: it tastes like Miller Lite now. > > Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have bigger > horses, that's all. No, no, no. American beer is American beer. Come to England and try a decent bitter or ale sometime ... -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:34:20PM -0700, Paul 'Baloo' Johnson wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sat, 18 May 2002, Hans Ekbrand wrote: > > > Although I actually have a terminal (can't say I use it much though), > > I sometimes wonder if email conventions should be derived from > > limitations of such ancient hardware. In some sense, its a good > > practice to require as little as possible from the clients, but is > > 80x25 a limit that anyone is facing anymore? > > Yes. I'm at work right now on a VT100. People still use old hardware > and will likely still use old hardware for as long as they can be > repaired and pressed into service (read: indefinately, terminals are > pretty damn robust). I missed this the first time around, but: I have 3 or 4 machines at home that I may use at any given time to read Usenet or Email. A PII 233 with 198 meg of ram runing Debian Woody, a P233 with 128 meg of ram running Redhat something old, a PowerMac G4 with 768 meg of ram running OSX, and usually something else, from a Windows laptop to a Tadpole to whatever. I still have the 80x25 problem, since often I'm using Mutt or SLRN. It's not your place to decide for me what software or hardware I must use to read your usenet postings, although it might be acceptable to place a certain minimal level of ability, however it most certainly is *NOT* acceptable for you to dictate what my email software must be able to accomodate beyond the requirements of the relevant RFC. Which is still 822, last time I checked. Now that you've probably gotten all huffy, no, I don't mean "you" specifically, I mean "you" in the Outlook using, javascript-RTF enhanced non-RFC compliant email sending twits out there. If you fall in to that category, then... > > I guess new limits come with pocket computers, mobile telephones, and > > whatever means people read their mail with these days. > Pocket computers gracefully rewrap text (usually) so they're not an > issue (though it would be nice if the email software that comes with it > would respect the 72 column rule even if it doesn't display it). I > don't see anybody reading on thier telephones. I mean, yeah, I'm going Funny, my Mobile Phone came with Eudora installed on it. I'm waiting for the USB sync cable so's I can try it out. > Though one time I got a hold of my roommate's cellphone and subscribed > him to a few high traffic lists on it. It took him a couple days before > he realised it wasn't going to stop on it's own and he'd have to go for > it himself. Nice part about those three days is you couldn't lose him, > he was beeping every couple minutes. (He got me back by pouring out my > Molsons and refilling the bottles with Coors, though everybody in the > house said that was below the belt: You simply don't subject *anyone* to > American beer[1]) He's a nice guy. I'd have urinated in them. Though with beer it'd be hard to tell the difference. > > So, a better argument for wrapping lines at 72 chars would perhaps be > > that it make the text easier to read (even if you have real screen > > estate that could handle a lot more). No, the best argument is that accessability is more important than form, and there is only one form that is considered a baseline default--80 columns width max. > [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian beer, > though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; Henry Weinhards > used to be good until they sold out to Miller, they're brewed out of St. > Louis and the formula changed: it tastes like Miller Lite now. Beer is beer. Budwiser makes more beer because they have bigger horses, that's all. -- My last cigarette was roughly 28 days, 16 hours, 10 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 06:47:25PM -0500, Richard Cobbe wrote: > Lo, on Saturday, May 18, Hans Ekbrand did write: > > On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 03:40:47PM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote: > True; it's long been understood in the professional typesetting > community that lines which are too long are difficult to read. I've > even seen discussions of what `too long' means---I think it's a function > of how long the font's em-space is, but I don't remember the details off > the top of my head. It's a function of Typeface, leading, and kerning. Tightly set lines (little space between letters, and little space between lines) need shorter lines. Loosely set lines (opening up the space between the lines, and opening up the letter spacing a bit (but, obviously not too much)) can be longer. > (Add this to the fact that most on-screen computer fonts, IMO, don't > have enough leading, and you've got serious legibility problems.) The typefaces don't do the leading (well, sort of but not really), it's the application that decides it. -- My last cigarette was roughly 28 days, 16 hours, 6 minutes ago. YHBW -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 01:04:19AM +0200, Hans Ekbrand wrote: > On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 03:40:47PM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote: > > The reason most people > > suggest 72 is that traditionally, terminals are 80 characters wide, and > > 72 leaves enough room to be quoted with "> " four times. > > Although I actually have a terminal (can't say I use it much though), > I sometimes wonder if email conventions should be derived from > limitations of such ancient hardware. In some sense, its a good > practice to require as little as possible from the clients, but is > 80x25 a limit that anyone is facing anymore? > I have seen posts here mentioning hardware as limiting the size of the text, but that's only part of it. > I guess new limits come with pocket computers, mobile telephones, and > whatever means people read their mail with these days. > > So, a better argument for wrapping lines at 72 chars would perhaps be > that it make the text easier to read (even if you have real screen > estate that could handle a lot more). > You are right. There is also a greater point of aesthetics involved. If you have dealt in Latex, one of the first things you learn is that lines longer than 76 characters, or thereabouts, are difficult to read. That's why newspaper have columns, since the print is so small. You could probably pick up any paperback novel and see that the number of characters on a line is about 76. I run a 132x60 mode console (vga=10), and I still prefer seeing my email wrapped around at 80 characters, though for coding I often set that limit to 100 characters. Running the console at this resolution helps when I am viewing webpages with a tabular layout using links. -Andy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 18 May 2002, Hans Ekbrand wrote: > Although I actually have a terminal (can't say I use it much though), > I sometimes wonder if email conventions should be derived from > limitations of such ancient hardware. In some sense, its a good > practice to require as little as possible from the clients, but is > 80x25 a limit that anyone is facing anymore? Yes. I'm at work right now on a VT100. People still use old hardware and will likely still use old hardware for as long as they can be repaired and pressed into service (read: indefinately, terminals are pretty damn robust). > I guess new limits come with pocket computers, mobile telephones, and > whatever means people read their mail with these days. Pocket computers gracefully rewrap text (usually) so they're not an issue (though it would be nice if the email software that comes with it would respect the 72 column rule even if it doesn't display it). I don't see anybody reading on thier telephones. I mean, yeah, I'm going to use my 12x4 display to read email because it's the most pleasant and easy on the eyes interface. Though one time I got a hold of my roommate's cellphone and subscribed him to a few high traffic lists on it. It took him a couple days before he realised it wasn't going to stop on it's own and he'd have to go for it himself. Nice part about those three days is you couldn't lose him, he was beeping every couple minutes. (He got me back by pouring out my Molsons and refilling the bottles with Coors, though everybody in the house said that was below the belt: You simply don't subject *anyone* to American beer[1]) > So, a better argument for wrapping lines at 72 chars would perhaps be > that it make the text easier to read (even if you have real screen > estate that could handle a lot more). True. xterms are by default 80x25. [1] There's a difference between American beer and Oregonian beer, though, Widmer Brothers and McMenamins are still good; Henry Weinhards used to be good until they sold out to Miller, they're brewed out of St. Louis and the formula changed: it tastes like Miller Lite now. - -- Baloo -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE85cu+NtWkM9Ny9xURApO/AJ9FKKnsY+M4DPg0OFW31VWgClkpbQCfc8KC fE6gR8ntTRXCnoCOtIsC/xQ= =GlUC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
> "Richard" == Richard Cobbe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Richard> Lo, on Saturday, May 18, Hans Ekbrand did write: >> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 03:40:47PM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote: >> > The reason most people suggest 72 is that traditionally, >> > terminals >> >are 80 characters wide, and 72 leaves enough room to be quoted >> >with "> " four times. Richard> That's one of the reasons I like VM and Gnus. They run in Richard> (X)Emacs, and fill-paragraph-or-region (M-q) is almost Richard> always smart enough to get the quoting brackets right when Richard> it refills a paragraph. also, when reading a non-or-improperly wrapped article in Gnus, the summary command 'W w' can be used to wrap the article. -- joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
Lo, on Saturday, May 18, Hans Ekbrand did write: > On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 03:40:47PM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote: > > The reason most people suggest 72 is that traditionally, terminals > > are 80 characters wide, and 72 leaves enough room to be quoted with > > "> " four times. That's one of the reasons I like VM and Gnus. They run in (X)Emacs, and fill-paragraph-or-region (M-q) is almost always smart enough to get the quoting brackets right when it refills a paragraph. > Although I actually have a terminal (can't say I use it much though), > I sometimes wonder if email conventions should be derived from > limitations of such ancient hardware. In some sense, its a good > practice to require as little as possible from the clients, but is > 80x25 a limit that anyone is facing anymore? Yes. My primary computer is in the shop, so I'm reduced to reading mail on my firewall. As it's a firewall with limited disk space and so forth, I don't have X installed. Thus, 80x25. Plus, if I'm in a hurry, or over a slow network connection, I like to be able to read my mail with /usr/bin/less. The preponderance of quoted-printable and base-64 and HTML, never mind long lines, makes this difficult---IMO, for no real gain. (Binary attachments are another story, obviously.) > So, a better argument for wrapping lines at 72 chars would perhaps be > that it make the text easier to read (even if you have real screen > estate that could handle a lot more). True; it's long been understood in the professional typesetting community that lines which are too long are difficult to read. I've even seen discussions of what `too long' means---I think it's a function of how long the font's em-space is, but I don't remember the details off the top of my head. (Add this to the fact that most on-screen computer fonts, IMO, don't have enough leading, and you've got serious legibility problems.) Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrapping [was: Re: disable paragraph flows in mozilla?]
On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 03:40:47PM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote: > The reason most people > suggest 72 is that traditionally, terminals are 80 characters wide, and > 72 leaves enough room to be quoted with "> " four times. Although I actually have a terminal (can't say I use it much though), I sometimes wonder if email conventions should be derived from limitations of such ancient hardware. In some sense, its a good practice to require as little as possible from the clients, but is 80x25 a limit that anyone is facing anymore? I guess new limits come with pocket computers, mobile telephones, and whatever means people read their mail with these days. So, a better argument for wrapping lines at 72 chars would perhaps be that it make the text easier to read (even if you have real screen estate that could handle a lot more). -- Note that I use Debian version 3.0 Linux emac140 2.4.17 #1 sön feb 10 20:21:22 CET 2002 i686 unknown Hans Ekbrand pgpbwhjvTt2oG.pgp Description: PGP signature
