Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 01:19:27PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx - Debian Project 
Secretary wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The nomination period has ended and we're now in the campaigning
> period.  We have 2 candidates:
> 
> - Stefano Zacchiroli 
> - Steve McIntyre <93...@debian.org>
> 
> The page at http://www.debian.org/vote/2009/vote_001 has been
> updated.  The platforms for these candidates shall be published as
> soon as they are available.  I'm currently still waiting for them.
> Please send them as soon as possible.

The platforms are now available at:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2009/platforms/


Kurt


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Matthew Johnson]

On Sun Mar 08 23:40, MJ Ray wrote:
> 
> How about "Shepherds Bush (Central line)"?
>
How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in English?

-- 
Matthew Johnson


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Ben Finney]

Matthew Johnson  writes:

> How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in
> English?

Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. The pronoun
“he” is sometimes awkwardly and explicitly defined for
gender-neutral use in specific cases, but it's never the case that
“he” is by default understood to be gender-neutral.

The English gender-neutral singular pronoun for people, if such a
pronoun exists in English, is “they”. If someone disagrees, they are
welcome to fight the tide and historical usage, but I think they are
fooling themselves.

-- 
 \  “Reichel's Law: A body on vacation tends to remain on vacation |
  `\unless acted upon by an outside force.” —Carol Reichel |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Lars Wirzenius]

ma, 2009-03-09 kello 19:37 +1100, Ben Finney kirjoitti:
> Matthew Johnson  writes:
> 
> > How about accepting that "he" is the gender-neutral pronoun in
> > English?
> 
> Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. 

While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th
iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about
platforms and some Q&A with the candidates?



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Re: DPL Debates [Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009]

[Joerg Jaspert]

>> If someone can't set up a poll, I'll send another message asking for
>> DDs to privately mail me (or maybe me-too to -vote) if they find the
>> debates useful.
> http://doodle.com/nmpesn9t5fwv6ewe

Having this run for 7 days now, we had 72 participants.

The question asked was
"Are the Debian DPL IRC Debates useful and should we keep them?"
and people could chose
"Yes", "No", "I don't care, never looked at one."

and we have

Yes 34
No  32
Don't care  12

>From that one can chose Yes as a final winning option, but it is a very
tiny margin. And some people did select Yes and No together.

-- 
bye, Joerg
> But i don't think that we talk a lot, as far as i can see, you live in
> the USA.
Australia. Only minor details like timezone and hemisphere but pretty
much the same. TZ is UTC+10 


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Marco d'Itri]

l...@liw.fi wrote:

>While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th
>iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about
>platforms and some Q&A with the candidates?
Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position
wrt this PC bullshit.
So candidates, what do you think about this?

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position
> wrt this PC bullshit.
> So candidates, what do you think about this?

[ Just assuming this was a serious question, otherwise shame on me for
  keeping this thread alive. ]

1) It costs nothing to fix the text for the next time: it is de facto
   boilerplate.

2) It costs nothing in the future to take the request in private with
   the poster, to avoid bothering readers with the 12767th iteration
   (2 more after Lars wise suggestion) of this discussions.

Note how (1) was fixed a dozen posts ago, with Kurt's prompt reply.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -<>- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..|  .  |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Steve McIntyre]

On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
>l...@liw.fi wrote:
>
>>While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th
>>iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about
>>platforms and some Q&A with the candidates?
>Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position
>wrt this PC bullshit.
>So candidates, what do you think about this?

Not that I think this is a particularly important issue, but...

My main problem with using "he" etc. as gender-neutral prononuns is
that it sounds really old-fashioned, in en_GB at least. I'm also
unconvinced by the new made-up "sie", "hir, etc. as they're just too
uncommon: they sound awkward and the vast majority of English speakers
will have no understanding of them, making them pointless.

So, both intentionally and by default, I use "they" and "them" to
cover both singular and plural cases. Some people may complain that
they believe singular "they" to be invalid, but I don't care. English
as a language is defined by usage, not by pedants making up and
following arbitrary rules.

There are lots of discussions of this topic on the net
(e.g. [1],[2],[3]), so I'm not going to spend any more effort on it
myself.

[1] http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-the2.htm
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
[3] http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"I've only once written 'SQL is my bitch' in a comment. But that code 
 is in use on a military site..." -- Simon Booth


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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.

[Brian May]

MJ Ray wrote:
> That treads on the singular "they" landmine.  Also, it sounds like
> it's the Debian Developer's validity in question.
>
> How about "Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a
> signed email to debian-vote@lists.debian.org"?
>   

How about: "To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email
nominating oneself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists"?



Also see:



According to this page, themself is singular and themselves is plural.

The  pages says "According to
many this is incorrect and its use should be avoided, however it is also
noted to have been in common use for hundreds of years. The issue stems
from they  which is used as a
gender-neutral third-person pronoun, though this use is also considered
non standard. More information can be found at the usage notes
 on that page."

Personally I don't really care - it is up to the author to decide.

I just haven't seen anybody discredit "oneself" for the job yet ;-).

-- 
Brian May 


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Re: DPL Debates [Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009]

[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 09 Mar 2009, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> >> If someone can't set up a poll, I'll send another message asking for
> >> DDs to privately mail me (or maybe me-too to -vote) if they find the
> >> debates useful.
> > http://doodle.com/nmpesn9t5fwv6ewe
> 
> Having this run for 7 days now, we had 72 participants.
> 
> The question asked was
> "Are the Debian DPL IRC Debates useful and should we keep them?"
> and people could chose
> "Yes", "No", "I don't care, never looked at one."
> 
> and we have
> 
> Yes 34
> No  32
> Don't care  12

Based on these results, my own personal thoughts, and some brief
discussion with the candidates, I'm leaning heavily towards not
expending the effort on a debate this time around.

I think much more could be gained from good discussions about the
platforms here in -vote, and followups with the candidates on IRC
(Sledge [Steve] and zack [Stefano] are highly active on IRC) than the
debate itself.

Also, since Stefano and Steve are in similar timezones, odds are good
that you all can get them to engage each other on #debian-devel on an
ad-hoc basis about the specific questions that bother you
specifically, without having to wait for the rigamarole of an IRC
debate.


Don Armstrong

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trafficking as silencers are a part of criminal homicide."
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http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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