Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems
ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk wrote: Since in practice there is only one hegemonic init system, this is sufficient to ensure our commitment to diversity. Is this pluralis maiestatis? -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/lf73mg$n5h$1...@posted-at.bofh.it
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems
(Earlier apology repeated.) On Mar 5, 2014 2:21 AM, Uoti Urpala uoti.urp...@pp1.inet.fi wrote: Sysvinit never worked well. Nothing's perfect. The point is, there currently exist use cases for which SysV *is* acceptable and systemd *isn't* - as they stand today and as they will stand for the foreseeable future. If that weren't the case, I doubt anyone would be terribly concerned about moving to systemd now or in the foreseeable future; but it is the case, so some people are concerned, and understandably so. For many years GCC was the only credible open-source compiler. Even if you think that the eventual appearance of LLVM as an alternative was a positive thing, do you really think it would have been a good idea for Debian to require before that that all packages must work OK if compiled with some other non-GCC compiler? Or that such a policy would actually have worked to create multiple credible compiler alternatives sooner? That's an invalid analogy. A closer analogy would be requiring that packages not tie themselves to LLVM. But since Debian is a binary distro, this is still a poor analogy, IIUC. Not every user needs to run a compiler, but every user needs an init that works on their system. Regards, Sam
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems
Hello everybody, since it does not seem like we are going to vote, could you find another place for that discussion ? (Of course, please avoid debian-devel and debian-project; thanks in advance) Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140305124949.ga1...@falafel.plessy.net
Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems
Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes: since it does not seem like we are going to vote, could you find another place for that discussion ? I think debian-vote is the correct venue of discussing my proposal until either it gets voted on, or I withdraw it. Regards, Matthew -- At least you know where you are with Microsoft. True. I just wish I'd brought a paddle. http://www.debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5btxbc2278@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Re: GR proposal: code of conduct
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 02/27/2014 04:15 PM, gregor herrmann wrote: On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:42:47 +1100, Stuart Prescott wrote: To me the strength of the CoC draft we are looking at here is that it doesn't concern itself with trivialities or with specific media. It talks about conduct -- that is behaviour, deportment, how we want people interact as human beings -- be respectful, be collaborative, assume good faith, be concise, be open. These are all about social interactions and not technical details on character limits, attachment sizes or whether people get CCs on messages. None of these technical things are conduct, they are, if you like, protocol. The CoC could happily refer to medium-specific guidelines for such minutiae if they are necessary. Wow, thank you. You put my thoughts into way better words than I ever could have done. This also sums up my views on the direction the conversation took. I'd encourage those who feel the same way to answer Wouter's call for seconds. AFAICT, I'm still the only one to have offered a second, and it would be nice to move the process forward. Thanks, - -- Andrew Starr-Bochicchio Ubuntu Developer https://launchpad.net/~andrewsomething Debian Developer http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=asb PGP/GPG Key ID: D53FDCB1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJTF13gAAoJEDtW4rvVP9yxK8IP/3Apc7kQ+QdTUIWB5LfsSX7H yu2K3t+XRd45Zq4GPprZt13howtfB7sGJSmSs7NJ5hiZtde6ID59dp42uiuyD99g c4M7LMLMK4IJlVgGU0dwrDedVhyz4S3Qkhp7cqjm7eg4l8Fpw6Q8uoiqrXTzkeb/ jB+FgCFMnjZ9BvqMaPi7J+Se6vvmPfXBIs6HDjRA9iQOJCk8Po6ktS51cq5e/jZa Y1Zt2kp9Bv6QDmtN339KSQwaN0thow/T48Bd3Q3n51N0SUI3amtl5Pw1iN/GBBEC R5DoVsvuQQK2O+9oiVnb+iWY4fErSnVuiYmk8E8cOODvQAkPuETsXOUY/sYzkC2j xMG02lFyO5kul6VWjZMZponyaivyz5klE23poy2LB7ulT75B2JDXixD7lO5h0v8b IaUvLS0YysXS+SnZD+1XCxAdBWt02VG21e/cyjDIrULcodWAUZNrpPN3it9BmNR+ +GTP3b/kPbWb+g1ncQgnXq3WpJEEaSDT9VsZ42YSFpnyZ+i734Ju6czo6UIEM/n1 IIhY3mfqie5kLSOSH9RY5jnEGjWg9M2NEfe3VlsqpQvqbj7lb3A4RMbtrCMTcqyL pPPO5+m6g0ueZ55xwaMVgwjg6zoe6OXJR3NOC22wpHaj2lH11cOmNeV9z7L5X+ZC QOPhtuH7CY8O3G6sHDny =sBEr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53175de4@debian.org
Re: GR proposal: code of conduct
Seconded, but I'd also like a couple of amendments which I'll add in another mail. Neil On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:59:42AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: 1. The Debian project decides to accept a code of conduct for participants to its mailinglists, IRC channels, and other modes of communication within the project. 2. The initial text of this code of conduct replaces the mailinglist code of conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct 3. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the DPL's delegates after consultation with the project, or by the Debian Developers as a whole through the general resolution procedure. 4. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. # Debian Code of Conduct ## Be respectful In a project the size of Debian, inevitably there will be people with whom you may disagree, or find it difficult to cooperate. Accept that, but even so, remain respectful. Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour or personal attacks, and a community in which people feel threatened is not a healthy community. ## Assume good faith Debian Contributors have many ways of reaching our common goal of a [free](http://www.debian.org/intro/free) operating system which may differ from your ways. Assume that other people are working towards this goal. Note that many of our Contributors are not native English speakers or may have different cultural backgrounds ## Be collaborative Debian is a large and complex project; there is always more to learn within Debian. It's good to ask for help when you need it. Similarly, offers for help should be seen in the context of our shared goal of improving Debian. When you make something for the benefit of the project, be willing to explain to others how it works, so that they can build on your work to make it even better. ## Try to be concise Keep in mind that what you write once will be read by hundreds of persons. Writing a short email means people can understand the conversation as efficiently as possible. When a long explanation is necessary, consider adding a summary. Try to bring new arguments to a conversation so that each mail adds something unique to the thread, keeping in mind that the rest of the thread still contains the other messages with arguments that have already been made. Try to stay on topic, especially in discussions that are already fairly large. ## Be open Most ways of communication used within Debian allow for public and private communication. As per paragraph three of the [social contract](http://www.debian.org/social_contract), you should preferably use public methods of communication for Debian-related messages, unless posting something sensitive. This applies to messages for help or Debian-related support, too; not only is a public support request much more likely to result in an answer to your question, it also makes sure that any inadvertent mistakes made by people answering your question will be more easily detected and corrected. ## In case of problems While this code of conduct should be adhered to by participants, we recognize that sometimes people may have a bad day, or be unaware of some of the guidelines in this code of conduct. When that happens, you may reply to them and point out this code of conduct. Such messages may be in public or in private, whatever is most appropriate. However, regardless of whether the message is public or not, it should still adhere to the relevant parts of this code of conduct; in particular, it should not be abusive or disrespectful. Assume good faith; it is more likely that participants are unaware of their bad behaviour than that they intentionally try to degrade the quality of the discussion. Serious or persistent offenders will be temporarily or permanently banned from communicating through Debian's systems. Complaints should be made (in private) to the administrators of the Debian communication forum in question. To find contact information for these administrators, please see [the page on Debian's organizational structure](http://www.debian.org/intro/organization) # Further reading Some of the links in this section do not refer to documents that are part of this code of conduct, nor are they authoritative within Debian. However, they all do contain useful information on how to conduct oneself on our communication channels. - Debian has a [diversity statement](http://www.debian.org/intro/diversity) - The [Debian Community Guidelines](http://people.debian.org/~enrico/dcg/) by Enrico Zini contain some advice on how to communicate effectively. -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: GR proposal: code of conduct
On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 05:53:48PM +, Neil McGovern wrote: Seconded, but I'd also like a couple of amendments which I'll add in another mail. And here's those amendments. Amendment A - move mailing list CoC text to further reading Justification: I think that it's better to keep the CoC as a general purpose document, rather than have it specific to each medium. The information at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct is still useful as it stands. I'm hopeful Wouter will accept this one, as I don't think it substantially changes the CoC. - participants to its mailinglists, IRC channels, and other modes of communication within the project. -2. The initial text of this code of conduct replaces the mailinglist - code of conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct - -3. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the +2. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the DPL's delegates after consultation with the project, or by the Debian Developers as a whole through the general resolution procedure. -4. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. +3. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. # Debian Code of Conduct [snip] - Debian has a [diversity statement](http://www.debian.org/intro/diversity) - The [Debian Community Guidelines](http://people.debian.org/~enrico/dcg/) by Enrico Zini contain some advice on how to communicate effectively. +- The [Mailing list code of + conduct](http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct) is useful for + advice specific to Debian mailing lists - Amendment B - Updates to the CoC should be via developers as a whole Justification - I believe that this document should have the strength of being a whole project statement. Being able to be updated by a single person doesn't feel comfortable with me. I'm less convinced Wouter will accept this, but I think it should be on the ballot! - 2. The initial text of this code of conduct replaces the mailinglist code of conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -3. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the - DPL's delegates after consultation with the project, or by the Debian - Developers as a whole through the general resolution procedure. - -4. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. +3. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. # Debian Code of Conduct - Thanks! Neil -- signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [Proposal] GR: Selecting the default init system for Debian
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 08:39:52PM +0100, Guillem Jover wrote: [ M-F-T and Reply-To set to debian-vote@l.d.o. ] Hi! This is the revised draft GR proposal (please see below); I'm looking for sponsors now. Since this or the other proposol failed to reach the needed amount of sponsors, the TC has made a decision and there wasn't any activity about this over 4 weeks I'm expiring this GR. You have 1 week to object to this. (This doesn't have anything to do with the one that was started by Matthew Vernon.) Kurt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: GR proposal: code of conduct
Op woensdag 5 maart 2014 19:05:45 schreef Neil McGovern: Amendment A - move mailing list CoC text to further reading Justification: I think that it's better to keep the CoC as a general purpose document, rather than have it specific to each medium. The information at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct is still useful as it stands. I'm hopeful Wouter will accept this one, as I don't think it substantially changes the CoC. - participants to its mailinglists, IRC channels, and other modes of communication within the project. -2. The initial text of this code of conduct replaces the mailinglist - code of conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct - -3. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the +2. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the DPL's delegates after consultation with the project, or by the Debian Developers as a whole through the general resolution procedure. -4. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. +3. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. # Debian Code of Conduct [snip] - Debian has a [diversity statement](http://www.debian.org/intro/diversity) - The [Debian Community Guidelines](http://people.debian.org/~enrico/dcg/) by Enrico Zini contain some advice on how to communicate effectively. +- The [Mailing list code of + conduct](http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct) is useful for + advice specific to Debian mailing lists - Amendment B - Updates to the CoC should be via developers as a whole Justification - I believe that this document should have the strength of being a whole project statement. Being able to be updated by a single person doesn't feel comfortable with me. I'm less convinced Wouter will accept this, but I think it should be on the ballot! - 2. The initial text of this code of conduct replaces the mailinglist code of conduct at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -3. Updates to this code of conduct should be made by the DPL or the - DPL's delegates after consultation with the project, or by the Debian - Developers as a whole through the general resolution procedure. - -4. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. +3. The initial text of the code of conduct follows, in markdown format. # Debian Code of Conduct - I second Wouter's proposal and I second both these amendments by Neil. Thijs signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: GR proposal: code of conduct
On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 09:38:02PM +0100, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: I second Wouter's proposal and I second both these amendments by Neil. I also second Wouter's proposal and amendments by Neil. Cheers, Paul -- .''`. Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org | Proud Debian Developer : :' : 4096R / 8F04 9AD8 2C92 066C 7352 D28A 7B58 5B30 807C 2A87 `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~paultag `- http://people.debian.org/~paultag/conduct-statement.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
