Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Nikolaus Rath]

On Jul 22 2016, martin f krafft  wrote:
> also sprach Lionel Elie Mamane  [2016-07-22 12:14 +0200]:
>> Since Debian is an international project, with many (I expect a
>> majority but am too lazy to check) of non-native English speakers,
>> maybe taking a more unwieldy, but more clear route, would be better:
>> Chairperson?
>
> Seriously… are we going to debate this now? Let's just vote and be
> done with it. Please. With a cherry.
>
> Btw, we've had DebConf Chairs too and nobody complained.

Well, that probably just means that they were pretty comfortable, so no
one had reason to complain.


Best,
-Nikolaus

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Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Didier 'OdyX' Raboud]

Le vendredi, 22 juillet 2016, 12.28:38 h CEST Jakub Wilk a écrit :
> Luckily there's an awesome non-gendered and non-furnitured alternative:
> 
> President

Point is, the TC  is constitutionally only about half-surrogating 
MIA DPLs and breaking ties. The non-constitutional part of the duty is much 
more about making meetings happen, running the administrativia, etc. In short, 
it's much more of a 'Secretary' role, rather than a 'President' role.

But we already have a secretary role in the project.

So we fall back (can we say "sit"?) on furnitured 'Chair'.

-- 
Cheers,
OdyX

Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Philip Hands]

Lionel Elie Mamane  writes:

> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:14:14PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:
>
>> I'd rather you asked me for a signed agreement in triplicate before
>> taking it out of the debian-private debian-developer-only archives to
>> quote/post somewhere else.
>
> Except I'm not posting to debian-private, but to debian-vote. Oh,
> silly me.

In light of the preceding mail, I can only agree with your final assessment.

Cheers, Phil.
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|-|  http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
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Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:14:14PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:
> Since Debian is an international project, with many (I expect a
> majority but am too lazy to check) of non-native English speakers,
> maybe taking a more unwieldy, but more clear route, would be better:
> Chairperson?

"Chair" is not ambiguous if you pay attention to the capitalisation, it's a
proper noun. Therefore there's no need to change it to disambiguate. NACK

-- 
Jonathan Dowland
Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.


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Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:16:22PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:
> Except I'm not posting to debian-private, but to debian-vote. Oh,
> silly me.

I wonder if there will be sanctions for this egregious violation of our
privacy and trust ;)

-- 
Jonathan Dowland
Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.


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Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Lionel Elie Mamane  [2016-07-22 12:14 +0200]:
> Since Debian is an international project, with many (I expect a
> majority but am too lazy to check) of non-native English speakers,
> maybe taking a more unwieldy, but more clear route, would be better:
> Chairperson?

Seriously… are we going to debate this now? Let's just vote and be
done with it. Please. With a cherry.

Btw, we've had DebConf Chairs too and nobody complained.

-- 
 .''`.   martin f. krafft  @martinkrafft
: :'  :  proud Debian developer
`. `'`   http://people.debian.org/~madduck
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems
 
above all, we should not wish to divest
our existence of its rich ambiguity.
 --friedrich nietzsche


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Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Jakub Wilk]

* Lionel Elie Mamane , 2016-07-22, 12:14:
Since Debian is an international project, with many (I expect a 
majority but am too lazy to check) of non-native English speakers, 
maybe taking a more unwieldy, but more clear route, would be better:

Chairperson?


Sounds clumsy. Luckily there's an awesome non-gendered and 
non-furnitured alternative:


President

I'd rather you asked me for a signed agreement in triplicate before 
taking it out of the debian-private debian-developer-only archives to 
quote/post somewhere else.


No worries!

--
Jakub Wilk

Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:14:14PM +0200, Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:

> I'd rather you asked me for a signed agreement in triplicate before
> taking it out of the debian-private debian-developer-only archives to
> quote/post somewhere else.

Except I'm not posting to debian-private, but to debian-vote. Oh,
silly me.

-- 
Lionel

Re: GR Proposal: replace "Chairman" with "Chair" throughout the Debian Constitution

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:15:57AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 08, 2016 at 03:27:56PM +0200, Margarita Manterola wrote:

>> -  The Technical Committee and/or its Chairman;
>> +  The Technical Committee and/or its Chair;

> A "Chairman" is a person. A "Chair" may be an object.

> I don't think anyone will misinterpret your proposed new wording into
> thinking the TC has a physical chair that someone sits on, but the
> s/Chairmain/Chair/ you apply does to me seem to introduce some
> grammatical ambiguity that could make the text of the constitution less
> clear than it might be.

> Since I'm not a native English speaker,

Since Debian is an international project, with many (I expect a
majority but am too lazy to check) of non-native English speakers,
maybe taking a more unwieldy, but more clear route, would be better:
Chairperson?

Or we could show we are a *deeply* geeky project, that knows that in
Old English, "mann" or "monn" meant had a gender-neutral meaning of
"human", corresponding to Modern English "person" or "someone", and
that this has been corrupted after the Norman conquest. So we could
decide to go back to the "roots" and recognise that "Chairman" is
etymologically not gendered. To make it more clear, we could replace
it by "Chairmann" or "Chairmonn". IMHO the latter would be far too
not-understandable to modern ears, so the former is better; at worse
it will be seen as a spelling mistake.

If one wants to have a language reform, I rather like this "back to
the roots" approach to the reform; obviously we cherry-pick what we
want/like from the roots and don't go completely back :) You know, the
same way that the discerning Frenchmann does not scoff at "je vais
faire mon shopping" because e (or ey or ee or sie or (s)he or they or
...) recognises that this is just a return of Old French "eschoppe"
(now spelled échoppe and somewhat antiquated, but still understandable
 by most Frenchspeakers) via a detour in English, instead of a vile
"anglicisme".

This article contains a clause shamelessly copy/pasted from Wikipedia;
it may make it entirely covered by the Creative Commons
Attribution-ShareAlike License. Or not, because it is such a short
quote. You figure it out, since you want to do something with it.

I'd rather you asked me for a signed agreement in triplicate before
taking it out of the debian-private debian-developer-only archives to
quote/post somewhere else.

-- 
Lionel