Re: Questions for candidates -- Debian's Organizational Structure

[Bob Hilliard]

Pascal Hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Which of the groups/people on [1] do you consider delegates? Why or why not?
> Would you change this?

 Since I am not a candidate, I cannot answer the question as
asked.  However, I can add a data point.  When the draft constitution
was first proposed, I pointed out to Ian that the important positions
of ftp admins, release manager, and other core functionalities were not
mentioned.  Ian's response was that these positions were all intended
to be delegates.

 However, as far as I recall, no DPL has ever publicly appointed
delegates to positions.  The constitution is silent on the process of
appointing delegates.  IMNSHO, such appointments should be announced
publicly.


Regards,

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 

Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates

[Bob Hilliard]

Helen Faulkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  Partly it's knowing that I'm going to be dealing
> with a man (almost certainly), and he may assume I don't know what I'm
> doing, and he may put me down or be condescending or unkind as a
> result.

 The first newbie question I asked on a debian list in 1997 was
answered (quickly and accurately) by Susan Kleinmann, one of the [few]
female developers.  I have never had occasion to feel condescending
toward female Debianers.

Regards,

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 

Re: Questions for candidates -- Debian's Organizational Structure

[Bob Hilliard]

Pascal Hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Which of the groups/people on [1] do you consider delegates? Why or why not?
> Would you change this?

 Since I am not a candidate, I cannot answer the question as
asked.  However, I can add a data point.  When the draft constitution
was first proposed, I pointed out to Ian that the important positions
of ftp admins, release manager, and other core functionalities were not
mentioned.  Ian's response was that these positions were all intended
to be delegates.

 However, as far as I recall, no DPL has ever publicly appointed
delegates to positions.  The constitution is silent on the process of
appointing delegates.  IMNSHO, such appointments should be announced
publicly.


Regards,

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 



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Re: Just a single Question for the Candidates

[Bob Hilliard]

Helen Faulkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  Partly it's knowing that I'm going to be dealing
> with a man (almost certainly), and he may assume I don't know what I'm
> doing, and he may put me down or be condescending or unkind as a
> result.

 The first newbie question I asked on a debian list in 1997 was
answered (quickly and accurately) by Susan Kleinmann, one of the [few]
female developers.  I have never had occasion to feel condescending
toward female Debianers.

Regards,

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 



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Re: [AMENDMENT BR1] GR: Disambiguation of Section 4.1.5 of the constitution

[Bob Hilliard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I, too, would like to re-propose the General Resolution I proposed three
> years ago.  (This is substantively the same, with only minor wording
> changes.)
>
> ==
>  4. The Developers by way of General Resolution or election
>
>4.1. Powers
>
> Together, the Developers may:
>  1. Appoint or recall the Project Leader.
>  2. Amend this constitution, provided they agree with a 3:1 majority.
>  3. Override any decision by the Project Leader or a Delegate.
>  4. Override any decision by the Technical Committee, provided they
> agree with a 2:1 majority.
> -5. Issue nontechnical policy documents and statements.
> -   These include documents describing the goals of the project, its
> -   relationship with other free software entities, and nontechnical
> -   policies such as the free software licence terms that Debian
> -   software must meet.
> -   They may also include position statements about issues of the day.
> +5. Issue, withdraw, and supsersede nontechnical policy documents
> +   and statements.  These include documents describing the goals of
> +   the project, its relationship with other free software entities,
> +   and nontechnical policies such as the free software licence
> +   terms that Debian software must meet.
> +   They may also include position statements about issues of the day.
>
> ==
>  Rationale: The clause being modified has been seen to be quite
>  ambiguous.  Since the original wording appeared to be amenable to two
>  wildly different interpretations, this change adds clarifying the
>  language in the constitution about _changing_ non technical
>  documents.
> ==
>
> I am seeking seconds for this amendment.  In the interests of full
> disclosure I should point out that I do not expect the proposer of the
> resolution I am amending to accept this amendment.  This amended version
> of the resolution does not create a class of nontechnical policy
> document or statement called a "foundational document".
>
> (If any readers have questions about the amendment process, I urge them
> to re-read section A.1. of the Debian Constitution[1].)
>
> [1] http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution

Seconded

Regards,

Bob
- -- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 

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Re: [AMENDMENT BR1] GR: Disambiguation of Section 4.1.5 of the constitution

[Bob Hilliard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I, too, would like to re-propose the General Resolution I proposed three
> years ago.  (This is substantively the same, with only minor wording
> changes.)
>
> ==
>  4. The Developers by way of General Resolution or election
>
>4.1. Powers
>
> Together, the Developers may:
>  1. Appoint or recall the Project Leader.
>  2. Amend this constitution, provided they agree with a 3:1 majority.
>  3. Override any decision by the Project Leader or a Delegate.
>  4. Override any decision by the Technical Committee, provided they
> agree with a 2:1 majority.
> -5. Issue nontechnical policy documents and statements.
> -   These include documents describing the goals of the project, its
> -   relationship with other free software entities, and nontechnical
> -   policies such as the free software licence terms that Debian
> -   software must meet.
> -   They may also include position statements about issues of the day.
> +5. Issue, withdraw, and supsersede nontechnical policy documents
> +   and statements.  These include documents describing the goals of
> +   the project, its relationship with other free software entities,
> +   and nontechnical policies such as the free software licence
> +   terms that Debian software must meet.
> +   They may also include position statements about issues of the day.
>
> ==
>  Rationale: The clause being modified has been seen to be quite
>  ambiguous.  Since the original wording appeared to be amenable to two
>  wildly different interpretations, this change adds clarifying the
>  language in the constitution about _changing_ non technical
>  documents.
> ==
>
> I am seeking seconds for this amendment.  In the interests of full
> disclosure I should point out that I do not expect the proposer of the
> resolution I am amending to accept this amendment.  This amended version
> of the resolution does not create a class of nontechnical policy
> document or statement called a "foundational document".
>
> (If any readers have questions about the amendment process, I urge them
> to re-read section A.1. of the Debian Constitution[1].)
>
> [1] http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution

Seconded

Regards,

Bob
- -- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 

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Re: Proposal - non-free software removal

[Bob Hilliard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Pursuant to Appendix A of the Debian Constitution and the guidelines offered
> at http://www.debian.org/vote/howto_proposal, I hereby offer the following
> draft proposal as the beginning of a General Resolution process to decide
> this issue.

 I second the proposal made by John Goerzen in Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Bob
- -- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 

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Re: Proposal - non-free software removal

[Bob Hilliard]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Pursuant to Appendix A of the Debian Constitution and the guidelines offered
> at http://www.debian.org/vote/howto_proposal, I hereby offer the following
> draft proposal as the beginning of a General Resolution process to decide
> this issue.

 I second the proposal made by John Goerzen in Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Bob
- -- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)   1294 S.W. Seagull Way <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Palm City, FL 34990 USA   GPG Key ID: 390D6559 

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=EtXL
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Transcript of the Debate

[Bob Hilliard]

 When and where will the transcript of the DPL candidates' debate
be posted? 

Bob
-- 
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  |_)  _  |_   Robert D. Hilliard  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)  1294 S.W. Seagull Way   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   Palm City, FL  USA  GPG Key ID: 390D6559 
   PGP Key ID: A8E40EB9



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Transcript of the Debate

[Bob Hilliard]

>From -IReturn-Receipt-To:
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 When and where will the transcript of the DPL candidates' debate
be posted? 

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_   Robert D. Hilliard  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)  1294 S.W. Seagull Way   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   Palm City, FL  USA  GPG Key ID: 390D6559 
   PGP Key ID: A8E40EB9



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Re: Some questions for the DPL candidates

[Bob Hilliard]

 Ooops - I menat to send this to the list.

"Marcelo E. Magallon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I had to look the idiom on a dictionary,
>  and was left wondering about what exactly Branden means.  "Fish or cut
>  bait" means, according to the Random House Dictionary of Proverbs, "do
>  your job or let somebody else do it".  Particularly, it doesn't mean
>  "come to a final resolution".

 As a native (American) English speaker, it was obvious to me that
Branden meant to stop the delays and bring the GRs to a vote.  He
obviously is aware the the DPL can't decide the issue, but can expedite
a solution.  

 The Random House definition seems too restrictive to me.  I found
the following in a quick web search:
  
The American Heritage Dictionary:
 To proceed with an activity or abandon it altogether. 

 The American-Australian Slang Dictionary: 
To begin the main task or continue with the preparations. Often asked
exasperatedly: ``Are you going to fish or cut bait?'', or given as a
command (s.a. shit or get off the pot).

The Phrase Finder:
Either do some useful work or leave and let other get on with it.

Sayings & Everyday Expressions:
Make a choice; do something useful; don't be idle.

 It seems to me that there are too many conspiracy theorists on
this list.

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_   Robert D. Hilliard  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)  1294 S.W. Seagull Way   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   Palm City, FL  USA  GPG Key ID: 390D6559 
   PGP Key ID: A8E40EB9

Re: Some questions for the DPL candidates

[Bob Hilliard]

 Ooops - I menat to send this to the list.

"Marcelo E. Magallon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I had to look the idiom on a dictionary,
>  and was left wondering about what exactly Branden means.  "Fish or cut
>  bait" means, according to the Random House Dictionary of Proverbs, "do
>  your job or let somebody else do it".  Particularly, it doesn't mean
>  "come to a final resolution".

 As a native (American) English speaker, it was obvious to me that
Branden meant to stop the delays and bring the GRs to a vote.  He
obviously is aware the the DPL can't decide the issue, but can expedite
a solution.  

 The Random House definition seems too restrictive to me.  I found
the following in a quick web search:
  
The American Heritage Dictionary:
 To proceed with an activity or abandon it altogether. 

 The American-Australian Slang Dictionary: 
To begin the main task or continue with the preparations. Often asked
exasperatedly: ``Are you going to fish or cut bait?'', or given as a
command (s.a. shit or get off the pot).

The Phrase Finder:
Either do some useful work or leave and let other get on with it.

Sayings & Everyday Expressions:
Make a choice; do something useful; don't be idle.

 It seems to me that there are too many conspiracy theorists on
this list.

Bob
-- 
   _
  |_)  _  |_   Robert D. Hilliard  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  |_) (_) |_)  1294 S.W. Seagull Way   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   Palm City, FL  USA  GPG Key ID: 390D6559 
   PGP Key ID: A8E40EB9



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