Re: call for seconds - separate proposal text for 2023/vote_002
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hello all, El Wed, 22 Nov 2023 19:16:48 +0100 Bart Martens escribió: > Hello, I hereby welcome seconds for adding this text to 2023/vote_002 > as a separate proposal. > > START OF PROPOSAL TEXT > > Debian Public Statement about the EU Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) and > the Product Liability Directive (PLD) > > The CRA includes requirements for manufacturers of software, followed > up by the PLD with compulsory liability for software. The Debian > project has concerns on the impact on Free and Open-Source Software > (FOSS). > > The CRA makes the use of FOSS in commercial context more difficult. > This goes against the philosophy of the Debian project. The Debian > Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) include "6. No Discrimination Against > Fields of Endeavor - The license must not restrict anyone from making > use of the program in a specific field of endeavor." A significant > part of the success of FOSS is its use in commercial context. It > should remain possible for anyone to produce, publish and use FOSS, > without making it harder for commercial entities or for any group of > FOSS users. > > The compulsory liability as meant in the PLD overrules the usual > liability disclaimers in FOSS licenses. This makes sharing FOSS with > the public more legally risky. The compulsory liability makes sense > for closed-source software, where the users fully depend on the > manufacturers. With FOSS the users have the option of helping > themselves with the source code, and/or hiring any consultant on the > market. The usual liability disclaimers in FOSS licenses should remain > valid without the risk of being overruled by the PLD. > > The Debian project asks the EU to not draw a line between commercial > and non-commercial use of FOSS. Such line should instead be between > closed-source software and FOSS. FOSS should be entirely exempt from > the CRA and the PLD. > > END OF PROPOSAL TEXT > Seconded. Kind regards, Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEZin0RNRxg3W3fj8cTDhhvcxwa3QFAmVffFcACgkQTDhhvcxw a3R0TAv/abNEOcO8skEQSyrj0EXJkyYtOQlpHd+22ZDEbu4ebMH4naC4tkF1IKKO rEQR4DyTUGnY5VdHn1BePX6/vTred7o/NoFkAjDTm0oU88Xdj1/P/M8e4pDhRoWy wh/Z5MxEy7x06C2YipDkyBPark8+VwapLzQD5Z2QtX1N3ZlwdbkOgbLpxA0grpEc dzQEZm7IOgSRSCre56F7lHqvzoLfLhmwYjJHCOfmWyc91FcIqXwG1/UWXMywZAPk od4ESfCzlDiow2+PSXP3J9VVtlNXzyz7seBmswK8CN3NrGJAEP/2/MnpMxyBvLLp DM7l3MYugoiCiMNk1yBP7972lZnJRD/u+2jiZBRUYQyJxHgA0uAYO+IR+DavoE3y ++7qErWH6CKzLsOqAC69j4FlUE5w0RAu7bCDTlowGLjbDkq2q3xX/Qn9GU/XZCIm 8gdtMThSZZSZ2C6zYm+wQDsZZV46aM7A7tfxEOUjjn4LSRifURKFZ5ME0qe/ZxcM FTWauMeA =s2Fs -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Web site merge requests for recent GR results
Hello all El 5 de octubre de 2022 4:02:01 CEST, Russ Allbery escribió: >FYI, I've created a merge request for the Debian web site implementing the >change to the Social Contract in GR 2022-003. This also adopts the >formatting used by the constitution for linking between historical >versions. Proofreading very welcome at: > >https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml/-/merge_requests/847 > >It was noted during the last GR discussion that the constitution hadn't >been updated on the web site for the results of GR 2022-001. I created a >merge request for those changes as well. > >https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml/-/merge_requests/846 > >Proofreading likewise very welcome. > Thank you very much Russ. I'll try to proofread and merge today if nobody beats me to it. >This merge request has one change from the text in the winning option of >the GR: it capitalizes Developer and Developers to be consistent with the >rest of the constitution (and to indicate that this refers to the specific >named constitutional role, not to the common English definition of the >word). I believe that's minor enough to be truly editorial, but of course >please speak up if you object. > I agree. Kind regards -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona Sent with K-9 mail
Re: Changing how we handle non-free firmware
Hello El 7/9/22 a las 20:31, Bart Martens escribió: On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 11:00:25PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: I think the problem is with "non-free section". I think Steve looks at that like the non-free-firmware section is now allowed. I suggest you s/now/not/ just rewrite it as: "containing non-free software from the Debian archive". Hi Kurt, Yes, let's do that, thanks. So here is the adapted proposal C: = The Debian project is permitted to make distribution media (installer images and live images) containing non-free software from the Debian archive available for download alongside with the free media in a way that the user is informed before downloading which media are the free ones. = Seconded. Thanks for making the update. Kind regards, -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Changing how we handle non-free firmware
Hello all El 22/8/22 a las 19:32, Gunnar Wolf escribió: I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original proposal. I'm only suggesting to modify the third paragraph, offering to produce two sets of images (fully-free and with-non-free-firmware), being the later more prominent. = We will include non-free firmware packages from the "non-free-firmware" section of the Debian archive on our official media (installer images and live images). The included firmware binaries will *normally* be enabled by default where the system determines that they are required, but where possible we will include ways for users to disable this at boot (boot menu option, kernel command line etc.). When the installer/live system is running we will provide information to the user about what firmware has been loaded (both free and non-free), and we will also store that information on the target system such that users will be able to find it later. The target system will *also* be configured to use the non-free-firmware component by default in the apt sources.list file. Our users should receive security updates and important fixes to firmware binaries just like any other installed software. While we will publish these images as official Debian media, they will *not* replace the current media sets that do not include non-free firmware packages, but offered alongside. Images that do include non-free firmware will be presented more prominently, so that newcomers will find them more easily; fully-free images will not be hidden away; they will be linked from the same project pages, but with less visual priority. = Seconded. Thanks everybody working in solving this issue. Kind regards, -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Changing how we handle non-free firmware
Hello all El 24/8/22 a las 10:12, Bart Martens escribió: Hello, I hereby propose the following alternative text to Steve's original proposal. = The Debian project is permitted to make distribution media (installer images and live images) containing packages from the non-free section of the Debian archive available for download alongside with the free media in a way that the user is informed before downloading which media are the free ones. = Seconded. Thanks everybody working on solving this issue. Kind regards, -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
List of voters (was: Re: General Resolution: Change the resolution process: results)
Hi all El 31/1/22 a las 16:59, Philip Hands escribió: Felix Lechner writes: Hi, On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:37 AM Bernd Zeimetz wrote: I'm wondering if there is anything we can do to motivate more people to vote. >From Wikipedia's page on 'Get Out the Vote': [1] "GOTV is often most effective when potential voters are told to do so "because others will ask." Voters will then go to the polls as a means of fulfilling perceived societal expectations. Paradoxically, informing voters that turnout is expecting to be high was found to increase actual voter turnout, while predicting lower turnouts actually resulted in less voters. The red bar chart in the same article indicates something similar. Perhaps we should publish a list of actual voters afterwards, without their choices, or award badges on Salsa? Something like this, perhaps? https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/vote_003_tally.txt A list of voters was also able to be found in contributors.debian.org: https://contributors.debian.org/source/vote.debian.org/ At some moment the submissions stopped, and the issue was reported: https://salsa.debian.org/nm-team/contributors.debian.org/-/issues/29 I have no idea about how to fix that, I guess contacting the Data Source maintainers: https://contributors.debian.org/source/vote.debian.org/members/ or adding oneself as maintainer and try to fix the data submissions. Kind regards, -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Re: Constitution A.6 - "V(A,D) is strictly great"
Hi all I have changed the constitution files in the website repo to match the updated text currently now in doc-debian package: https://salsa.debian.org/webmaster-team/webwml/-/commit/e3d525d9f092f9014e00417cc847900ac5a99649 The fix will be available online after the next build. I didn't close the bug because I don't know if a decision has been taken about which one of the two sources (website repo or debian-doc package repo) should be the "canonical" one. In my opinion, the website, but I'm biased of course :-) Kind regards, El 4/4/21 a las 11:05, Kurt Roeckx escribió: > On Sun, Apr 04, 2021 at 09:31:46AM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote: >> Hi, >> >> In https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution#item-A, there is the >> following sentence under A.6. bullet 3.2.: >> >>> An option A defeats the default option D by a majority ratio N, if V(A,D) >>> is greater or equal to N * V(D,A) and V(A,D) is strictly great >> >> The "... and V(A,D) is strictly great" looks like an incomplete >> sentence. Is that something we can fix as an editorial correction (i.e. >> without a vote)? > > See #896067. > > > Kurt > -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Re: Q to all candidates: about advancing Debian (as organisation) while not being DPL
Hi El 30/3/19 a las 23:22, Joerg Jaspert escribió: > On 15356 March 1977, Laura Arjona Reina wrote: > >> There are some teams in Debian that focus in areas similar to the DPL >> tasks and allow people to make a difference in the project working on >> them, without the need - and the burden? or the satisfaction? - of >> being a DPL. For example: >> >> * treasury, press/publicity and partners deal with the relationship >> with companies/organisations, >> * publicity/press, the web team and events team can have influence on >> the image we transmit and how the project is perceived >> * frontdesk, MIA, outreach, events and the welcome team can have an >> impact in expanding/improving our user base and contributor base, >> helping and motivating them etc.) >> * ... > > I do not think frontdesk or MIA fit, except for delegation, they do not > work with the DPL at all. I'm not saying they work together with the DPL. I was mentioning some teams that allow people to do work that has (or may have) a big impact across the whole project and the wider community. > >> Sometimes I feel that having a (single person) DPL role is somehow >> harmful for people to get involved in these tasks: >> - the elected person gets so squeezed that after their service they >> just prefer to focus in other tasks, > > Unable to properly comment on that one, until *maybe* next year. :) > Though I've done lots of high profile (and sometimes) pressure jobs, and > am still here and around. > >> - the non-elected get depressed and don't continue contributing >> ideas/work to advance Debian in these areas, > > After having read your explanation to zack: I won't get depressed and > use that to not contribute to the teams listed above should I not get > elected. But I also won't join them unless I'm already in. > > For the simple reason that, should I get elected, I will have a good > bunch of more time available for Debian work. That will go into DPL (and > may drift to other areas I am involved with) and from there into > whatever-the-DPL has with those teams. > If I am not elected, that time is simple not there. > I understand. Thanks for your answer, and the answers of the other candidates as well. Kind regards, -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Re: Q to all candidates: about advancing Debian (as organisation) while not being DPL
Hi El 30/3/19 a las 13:50, Stefano Zacchiroli escribió: > On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 04:01:26PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote: >>> - the non-elected get depressed and don't continue contributing >>> ideas/work to advance Debian in these areas, >> >> I think that's a good question! I considered the effects of losing the >> race right when I decided to jump in, and decided to go in to this with >> the attitude that even if I lose, the topics that we discuss and explore >> should be useful to Debian. > > I initially misread that too, but now I think that what actually Laura > meant was opposing the DPL (elected) to other team members (non > elected). Rather than referring to DPL candidates who didn't get elected > (who, at least in general, are not part of the teams we are discussing). > > Am I reading it right, Laura? > No :-) I'm talking there about the DPL candidates who didn't (or won't) get elected. Yes, they are not usually part of the teams we are discussing. And that feels strange for me. Because many of the ideas proposed in the platforms can be put in practise by joining such teams, there is no need to be DPL for that. Then I wonder why they don't join the teams. A possible answer is that before the elections they didn't consider that possibility, and after the elections they become demotivated (because they didn't get elected). This is perfectly understandable and I wonder if having the DPL role is what is wrong and we should reconsider (and promote the other structures that we have (teams, delegates-or-call-them-what-you-like,etc) that allow more different levels of commitment). Kind regards, -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Q to all candidates: about advancing Debian (as organisation) while not being DPL
Hello all
There are some teams in Debian that focus in areas similar to the DPL tasks and
allow people to make a difference in the project working on them, without the
need - and the burden? or the satisfaction? - of being a DPL. For example:
* treasury, press/publicity and partners deal with the relationship with
companies/organisations,
* publicity/press, the web team and events team can have influence on the image
we transmit and how the project is perceived
* frontdesk, MIA, outreach, events and the welcome team can have an impact in
expanding/improving our user base and contributor base, helping and motivating
them etc.)
* ...
Sometimes I feel that having a (single person) DPL role is somehow harmful for
people to get involved in these tasks:
- the elected person gets so squeezed that after their service they just prefer
to focus in other tasks,
- the non-elected get depressed and don't continue contributing ideas/work to
advance Debian in these areas,
- the watchers just focus on DPL'ship (if they fit or not) and thus the more
granularity in commitment (via the involvement in these teams) is overlooked.
- the team members may continue overloaded until they decide they just need a
break, and are not sure if all this flourish of ideas is tied to the DPL role
("having a hat", the "campaign period"...), or the people contributing to the
debates (and the candidates) are motivated enough to get involved even if they
are not elected :-)
What are your views on this?
Kind regards,
--
Laura Arjona Reina
https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Re: Debian presence on newer platforms
Hi El 25/3/19 a las 19:42, Jonathan Carter escribió: > > Here are some of them many of you may already be familiar with. > > 1. Mastodon > > Mastodon is a twitter-like platform with a tweetdeck-like interface. > > More on Mastodon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastodon_(software) > Follow me on Mastodon! :) https://mastodon.xyz/@highvoltage > Debian is already in Mastodon (which federates with GNU Social): https://fosstodon.org/@debian (it's a non-official account replicating what is posted in https://micronews.debian.org ). Kind regards -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona Sent with K-9 mail
Re: Q to both: facilitating meetups
Hi again El 26/03/17 a las 18:05, Chris Lamb escribió: > Dear Martin, > >> In what ways do you see Debian itself being a bit of the rust on the >> cogwheels making organisation harder? > > Could you elaborate on what you mean here? I wouldn't want to misinterpret > your query and slander Debian unnecessarily — after all, a gentleman is > defined as someone who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally… > > >> What could be done from the side of the project to >> improve/facilitate the organisation of meetups? > > I think there are lots of ways we could improve the meetup process. > > Publishing a battle-hardened "HOWTO" to run a BSP would be one angle I > would look into — many people simply feel that organising such meetups > is beyond them or they simply become overwhelmed at the start of > thinking about it. > > I'm not claiming that organising a meetup is straightforward or > diminishing the effort and stress involved, but the more unknowns that > are removed from the process the more likely we are to see grassroots > volunteer efforts. > > Highlighting that there is a benefit to a meetup, however small, would be > a part of this too as many DDs might only have interacted with DebConf, > an enterprise clearly orders of magnitude above the typical BSP. > > Even promoting fortnightly social meetups that are more — how can I put > it? — "IPA" than "ITP" would be really beneficial to the project. What do IPA and ITP mean in this context? Thanks -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Re: Q to both: "Debian outreachy"
Hi Chris El 26/03/17 a las 17:48, Chris Lamb escribió: > martin f krafft wrote: > >> What does "outreach" mean to you? > > I fear I have a pretty mainstream interpretation of outreach; ie. > specifically "targeting" (or at least calling the attention of) groups > we perceive to be under-represented in our community and streamlining > their initial involvement in our project. > > However, in Debian I believe this extends beyond gender etc. but also > with respect to geographic location, race, socio-economic background > and political outlook. It might be fair to say we remain somewhat of > a European project in both senses of that word. Sorry I didn't understand the "both senses" of European. I can imagine geographically and... culturally? Could you clarify? Thanks > > Including folks that our outside of our norms are a huge potential for > Debian, not only in crude terms such as the untapped humanpower and the > technical ideas that were potentially outside of our point of view, it > simply makes the project more social, fun and enjoyable. Not only that, > how many times have you heard of Debian being (ab?)used in a some > unexpected context and thought "Huh, I feel pretty proud to have had a > small hand in that…". > > I think we're doing a pretty good job already and this is helped by > being a rather anarchistic project to begin with — we appear to attract > a wider mix of people who like our approach to building things versus the > more "top-down" distributions. > > We do, however, lack clear "next steps" in this area which cause me some > concern. As an illustration of this, I remember attending a Debian BoF > where there was universal agreement that diversity was a good thing but > when prompted with a question of "OK, so what shall we do?" there was > little advice beyond being welcoming, etc. being exchanged. > > Without addressing this, we could end up simply paying lip service to the > concept to the detriment of all. > > > Regards, > -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Re: Question for DPL candidates: delegation
Hi El 21/03/17 a las 12:10, Ian Jackson escribió: The DPL role is generally thought to be rather large and does seem to be subject to burnout. But, the DPL can delegate whole areas of responsibility. At the moment DPL delegates are mostly longstanding core teams such as ftpmaster and DAM. Current delegations can be seen in https://www.debian.org/intro/organization (the teams or groups having a "delegation mail"). If somebody spots a mistake in that page, or there are more delegations not appearing there, please report it to debian-...@lists.debian.org with link to the info, and I'll try to update as soon as possible. We have also had the semi-formal "DPL helpers" but they didn't have delegated authority. Do you intend to make more use of delegation ? In what areas of DPL responsibility ? Do you envisage delegating individual issues on an ad-hoc basis, or whole areas to new or existing teams ? Do you envisage sending out public calls for volunteers ? Would you look favourably on unsolicited requests from a contributor, to have limited powers delegated to them to deal with a matter that contributor wants to try to see fixed ? Ian. -- Laura Arjona Reina https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
